Well, I can definitely say the change up has affected my weight. I'm up 3 pounds and, if I read indicators correctly, I'll be up tomorrow. This IS NOT a whine -- just my sardonic humor. But it's true, I am on the horns of a dilemma. Should I stick it out for the whole week? two weeks? Or should I try to cut my losses (I mean gains) and get back on Phase 1? (I have not had a restricted packet since the end of of week 2, when I had been told by my coach to have one a day. No initial big loss. And I have never had a bar, or soy nuts, or anything like them.)
I'm still within the 5 pound fluctuation I've been experiencing for the past 40 days and 40 nights, so maybe that's good. But I also have been walking at least 3 miles a day (in two sessions because that's the puppy's limit) and I was hoping that that would have a good effect.
I suspect this kind of thing is so far out of the experience of most of you that you won't have much to say. But please, if you can think of anything?
I am totally following the formula, not even moving things around, i.e., having dinner for breakfast, etc. And I drink between 95-110 ounces of water a day, although some of it is in the form of organic de-caffinated tea, mostly herbal. Help?
Linden- I am not sure if you have already been asked this but do you use ketostixs? I know it is not a sure test but it may help as I think you are definately not in ketosis for some hidden reason?? I have worked out the math for myself in the begining. Really you should not gain in 2 nor should your losses or lack-of been happening the last little bit, some people dont respond as well as others but just by mathmatics you should still lose even if its small.
We eat on IP phase 1 between 700-900 cals per day, lets say your metabolism was in the tank like mine was so your basal metabolic rate is 1500 so I said to self, self lets work of the worst case senario so 1500-900 leaves me 600, it takes 3500 for one pound so really worst case I would burn just over 1 pound per week just by the numbers. So even adding in an extra 300 for phase 2 you should still lose just under a pound....this is my absolute worst case senario. Do you journal? Do you measure veggies & proteins? Do you take any other kinds of suppliments, vit c, d? anything different in the last bit as I think you did pretty good numbers in the begining? I am sure these are all things you have considered but maybe fresh eyes will help.....
Linden- I am not sure if you have already been asked this but do you use ketostixs? I know it is not a sure test but it may help as I think you are definately not in ketosis for some hidden reason?? I have worked out the math for myself in the begining. Really you should not gain in 2 nor should your losses or lack-of been happening the last little bit, some people dont respond as well as others but just by mathmatics you should still lose even if its small.
We eat on IP phase 1 between 700-900 cals per day, lets say your metabolism was in the tank like mine was so your basal metabolic rate is 1500 so I said to self, self lets work of the
worst case senario so 1500-900 leaves me 600, it takes 3500 for one pound so really worst case I would burn just over 1 pound per week just by the numbers. So even adding in an extra 300 for phase 2 you should still lose just under a pound....this is my absolute worst case senario. Do you journal? Do you measure veggies & proteins? Do you take any other kinds of suppliments, vit c, d? anything different in the last bit as I think you did pretty good numbers in the begining? I am sure these are all things you have considered but maybe fresh eyes will help.....
I could weep; this is so kind of you. I'll try to answer everything because it's just possible something will pop out at you.
1. Only one cheat, on July 4th. Nowhere close after that. Never eaten any of the bars, etc. No restricted since end of second week. Coach sent 14 for 1st 2 weeks and said I should eat them.
2. I Journal everything, including amount of calcium, potassium, manganese, vitamins, and supplements in an excel
spread sheet. Have never gone over 836 calories a day or, since the second week, over 30 carbs. Most days I can keep it to 26 or under. Fiber ranges from 6.9 to 13.2. Protein ranges from 89 to 114.3. I eat only organic food, if I can get it. (We're a little stronger on organic fruits than vegetables here.)
I take a fair amount of prescription medicine as well as supplements. Prescription: Atenolol; Levothyroid; for fibromyalgia - cymbalta, meloxicam, and cyclobenzaprine; triamterene for water retention; and a low dose of simvastatin because of family history of high colesterol [mine is 170 and HDL is VERY high from the way I ate before I started IP].
Supplements: 1 kelp to offset sea salt w/o iodine; IP K and magnesium with calcium (but I take them long after my thyroid medicine); 3 DIM-plus for hormone balance; 1 allergy pill - hydrochloride; 1 C and 1 D; 2 CoQ10; 2 fish oil (1000 each),2 multivitamin, 1 B complex, 1 vitamin D3, and Novilax Honestly, some days it seems as though I take more pills than food. Each one of these is either recommended by my GP, my Fibro doctor, or coach, and they all agree that the whole bunch is OK and needed.
Starting two weeks ago I walk a minimum of 3 miles a day and do resistance exercises. Starting next week I think I will enroll in a water exercice class if there is room. I'm on a wait list. Because I have chronic fatigue exercise is often like walking through heavy, dense fog, but I do it, and I don't just lay around the house for the rest of the day. I get 8 or more hours sleep a night and my Fitbit says the quality of sleep is between 85 and 93%. These are the things I monitor. If someone had told me a year ago I'd be watching things like this so closely, I would have said I sounded obsessive/compulsive. But really, I think you do have to watch these things to maximize the program.
If I didn't have this blog I don't think I could have carried on this long (99th day). But I really do believe in the principles of the program. And I was down 1.4 pounds today.
Thank you so, so much for taking on this chore. I do hope you see something.
Oops, forgot perhaps your most important question. I do use the, occassionally in the morning but don't get a reaction. My coach, who is not a fan of them, says the reason is because I drink so much water. The sudden onset of "cotton mouth" several times a day, for no apparent reason, may be an indicator. And I've only had one cluster headache since is started and that can be attributed directly to a family member's illness.
Opps #2. Forgot to say I measure EVERYTHING. The meat I eat is grass fed filet; fish, dover sole, cod, shrimp, scallops, wild Alaskan salmon; and organic chicken breast and turkey, both of which I cook myself. And I get the prescribed amount of salt.
Early on someone suggested that I was in starvation mode. I don't know. But I have practically no thyroid activity w/o medication, so metabolism should be (somewhat) compensated for by thyroid medicine?
I'm just going to throw a few things out there, you've probably seen/done/heard/thought about these, but here you go:
Ketostix - I do believe that if you drink a lot of water it will throw the test off - during the day! If you are testing 1st thing in the morning, I would expect it to show up though. I always tested positive in the morning, but the few times I checked later in the day, nothing. I'm wondering if you are going in and out of ketosis and am also concerned that you are in starvation mode - at least part of the time.
Restricteds - Everyone is different, but, after the 1st month I had a restricted (bar) every day. In fact, I had a couple of mini-vacations during phase 1 and stuck to plan foods religiously, but had at least two bars a day. I came back expected to have little or no loss, but had big losses weeks. I think it just shook things up, two restricteds a day for a prolonged period would be BAD. Is it possible you try with restricteds and see what happens?
What about trying the alternate plan? I've not checked into it much because I went with the traditional plan, but it follows the basics of the protocol. Maybe this would work better for you? Like I said, everyone's different.
You are drink a lot of water (yay!), but I see you are taking meds for water retention. I skipped the salt unless I had headaches, how much salt are you taking? You seem to have an issue with retaining water, could you have a buildup of fluids? My mother-in-law (who was way heavier!) was admitted to the hospital once for something unrelated and was put on a diuretic. She lost 50 lbs of fluid in two days. It's unbelievable what water retention can do to you.
You're walking a lot (again, yay!) are you building muscle which weighs more?
I admire your perseverance. I hope you can get to the bottom of this!!
I'm just going to throw a few things out there, you've probably seen/done/heard/thought about these, but here you go:
Ketostix -
What about trying the alternate plan? I
but I see you are taking meds for water retention. I skipped the salt unless I had headaches, how much salt are you taking?
You're walking a lot (again, yay!) are you building muscle which weighs more?
Stacey
I can't even begin to thank you. So, let me answer your questions.
I read a couple of days ago not to use the stix first thing in the morning, but later on in the day. Tried both ways. Nada. But as far as ketosis is concerned, I haven't been hungry since the evening of the third day. I had the euphoria weeks 3 and 4. Since then energy levels plummet or resurge, but we can't seem to find a problem a pattern.
Found out I was allergic to soy (!) so have been off that for two weeks.
I asked the coach about the alternative program and she was reluctant to see me go in that direction (BUT, I'll hold it in reserve.)
And bout the triamterene -- I only take it when I absolutely need it, such as when I go for a 2 or more walk (sans puppy). By night fall my ankles and feet really swell. I've never had this happen before, even when I was pregnant. And I take a little extra magnesium for what gets lost. I'm hoping this is an aberration. If not, I'll find another exercise. for years I was on a sodium-restricted diet (fewer than 1500mg) and I keep the level right at that now by logging all the sodium I take in a day.
And, maybe this will help. After reading Carla's post about water today, I think I'll give up tea and just drink pure water for a while; and perhaps increase the total by another 16 ounces, to .75 oz per pound of weight. Cheers, and THANKS.
I'm no expert on any of this, but had a couple thoughts after reading your post.
I'm wondering if any of the medications you listed have inactive ingredients that may be hindering ketosis somehow. For example, I've seen allergy medications with corn starch and vitamin c with maltodextrin. I'm not sure if the amounts would make any difference, but it's just a thought.
Also, I had a similar experience to Stacey, except mine involved a cheat. I had mashed potatoes one time during Phase 1 and I actually had a higher loss that week than most other weeks. Later on in the diet, I started having bars and lost faster during those weeks than in the beginning when I only had unrestricted items. I'm definitely not recommending a cheat, but adding one restricted packet per day may help instead of hurt your progress also.
Linden-
Restricteds - Everyone is different, but, after the 1st month I had a restricted (bar) every day. In fact, I had a couple of mini-vacations during phase 1 and stuck to plan foods religiously, but had at least two bars a day. I came back expected to have little or no loss, but had big losses weeks. I think it just shook things up, two restricteds a day for a prolonged period would be BAD. Is it possible you try with restricteds and see what happens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kplus80
Linden-
I'm wondering if any of the medications you listed have inactive ingredients that may be hindering ketosis somehow. For example, I've seen allergy medications with corn starch and vitamin c with maltodextrin. I'm not sure if the amounts would make any difference, but it's just a thought.
Also, I had a similar experience to Stacey, except mine involved a cheat. I had mashed potatoes one time during Phase 1 and I actually had a higher loss that week than most other weeks. Later on in the diet, I started having bars and lost faster during those weeks than in the beginning when I only had unrestricted items. I'm definitely not recommending a cheat, but adding one restricted packet per day may help instead of hurt your progress also.
Good thoughts on the non-medicinal ingredients in the medications.
Linden, there is a technique that body-building super-keeners use called "carb refeeding" to take themselves down to really low body fat percentages. They eat low carb for a while, then bump it up for a planned short time period, then return to low carb. If you can't find anything sensible on it, let me know and I'll see what my google-fu can dig up for you.
Linden, there is a technique that body-building super-keeners use called "carb refeeding" to take themselves down to really low body fat percentages. They eat low carb for a while, then bump it up for a planned short time period, then return to low carb. /QUOTE]
I've read about that, too. I think I can find the references. I believe I'll try the extra water for a few days and, if that doesn't work, maybe I'll add some chocolate. Oh, right, no carb and fat combinations. Sigh.
I'm happy to be a new 'life after phase I' thread 'member' ... I'll wait for my patch or pin to come in the mail...since I'm starting phase II tomorrow morning.
Linden: I'm not good on the math or medical reasons. I can only say one thing: keep chuging along. See where it takes you. Maybe it will surprise you. Perhaps the first few days were a little more than the body could take, and you might need to weigh in a little less so as to not obscess about the number on the scale. I can also say that I'm personally pulling for you. I know you can do this. Good luck.
I'm happy to be a new 'life after phase I' thread 'member' ... I'll wait for my patch or pin to come in the mail...since I'm starting phase II tomorrow morning.
Linden: I'm not good on the math or medical reasons. I can only say one thing: keep chuging along. See where it takes you. Maybe it will surprise you. Perhaps the first few days were a little more than the body could take, and you might need to weigh in a little less so as to not obscess about the number on the scale. I can also say that I'm personally pulling for you. I know you can do this. Good luck.
Oh, congratulations. And thanks for the good words.
In truth, the figure on the scale isn't what concerns me. It's the not losing fat that worries me. And not understanding what's going on -- that I do obsess about, I guess. I'm just too used to being able to figure things out; and this has me flummoxed. I will chug along, though, like the old gray mare.
So I weighed in tonight and was down another 2 lbs, which puts me 1.5 lbs under my goal weight. Yippee! After 3 weeks of Phase 2, like Katie I'll also be enjoying my first Phase 3 big breakfast tomorrow!! Thanks for all the tips on how to pick and plan menus, as well as reassurance that it's doable! I have tomorrow's meal all planned out...1 slice multi-cereal toast with WF strawberry spread, 3 slices bacon, 2 eggs, 1 cup strawberries and 3/4 cup greek yogurt. BLISS!
Congrats on reaching Phase 3 and the big breakfasts! Your breakfast sounds delicious, but you might want to rethink the fat content. We're allowed 15 grams of fat for the whole day, counting the fat in everything. One egg by itself contains 5 grams of fat. Then there's the fat in the toast, bacon, and yogurt. Looks like you're having all your fat for the day at breakfast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linden
Well, I can definitely say the change up has affected my weight. I'm up 3 pounds and, if I read indicators correctly, I'll be up tomorrow. This IS NOT a whine -- just my sardonic humor. But it's true, I am on the horns of a dilemma. Should I stick it out for the whole week? two weeks? Or should I try to cut my losses (I mean gains) and get back on Phase 1? (I have not had a restricted packet since the end of of week 2, when I had been told by my coach to have one a day. No initial big loss. And I have never had a bar, or soy nuts, or anything like them.)
I'm still within the 5 pound fluctuation I've been experiencing for the past 40 days and 40 nights, so maybe that's good. But I also have been walking at least 3 miles a day (in two sessions because that's the puppy's limit) and I was hoping that that would have a good effect.
I suspect this kind of thing is so far out of the experience of most of you that you won't have much to say. But please, if you can think of anything?
I am totally following the formula, not even moving things around, i.e., having dinner for breakfast, etc. And I drink between 95-110 ounces of water a day, although some of it is in the form of organic de-caffinated tea, mostly herbal. Help?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linden
Oh, congratulations. And thanks for the good words.
In truth, the figure on the scale isn't what concerns me. It's the not losing fat that worries me. And not understanding what's going on -- that I do obsess about, I guess. I'm just too used to being able to figure things out; and this has me flummoxed. I will chug along, though, like the old gray mare.
Linden, I'm so sorry things are going so crappy for you. I too just don't understand it. This sounds like a question for Dr. Tran himself. Maybe Carla could contact him for you? Seems like I recall she actually did that once before.
I agree with all that has been said , I made the mistake with vit c, so there could be something in those meds & suppliments, does your coach have a scale that measures fat % & muscle mass? This could be a sure fire way to determine if you are actually losing fat but gaining muscle (= out) do you get measured ? Are you still losing in inches? Has your coach seen your journals? Are they at a loss? Have they tried to help you? I would think that they should get in touch with there regionals and send in your food journals for examination? Carb cycling does seem to work for some people, maybe you should throw in a bar every now and then see if it changes things up... do you generally eat the same IP packets and veggies, I always say mix it up I know you have to stay away from soy but your body has a memory (I think) for food just like it does for exercise, maybe you should try to have your biggest meal in the morning...... lets get this party started.... if its broke ..... lets fix it I am glad you were down.... oh one more thing you going to the toilet ok forgot to ask? It has to be something
Well, I can definitely say the change up has affected my weight. I'm up 3 pounds and, if I read indicators correctly, I'll be up tomorrow. This IS NOT a whine -- just my sardonic humor. But it's true, I am on the horns of a dilemma. Should I stick it out for the whole week? two weeks? Or should I try to cut my losses (I mean gains) and get back on Phase 1? (I have not had a restricted packet since the end of of week 2, when I had been told by my coach to have one a day. No initial big loss. And I have never had a bar, or soy nuts, or anything like them.)
I'm still within the 5 pound fluctuation I've been experiencing for the past 40 days and 40 nights, so maybe that's good. But I also have been walking at least 3 miles a day (in two sessions because that's the puppy's limit) and I was hoping that that would have a good effect.
I suspect this kind of thing is so far out of the experience of most of you that you won't have much to say. But please, if you can think of anything?
I am totally following the formula, not even moving things around, i.e., having dinner for breakfast, etc. And I drink between 95-110 ounces of water a day, although some of it is in the form of organic de-caffinated tea, mostly herbal. Help?
Oh Linden, sending you a great big hug. Your persistence and determination are incredible. Not too mention how well you've documented EVERYTHING.
Not sure of what to say. Everyone else has already given so many good suggestions and asked great questions.
How was your weight loss/gain/maintenance BEFORE starting IP? Were you the type of individual who basically stayed the same weight for great lengths of time? Or did you gain regardless of how/what you ate? Just wondering if maybe how your body was previously is any indication of why you're not losing at a quicker rate. Regardless, it sounds like your body is stubborn! Lol.
Did your coach say why she didn't want you to try the alternative phase route? I agree with Wannabe, your coach should be contacting someone "higher up" for ideas and suggestions. If she's not going to do it, you should.
I think it was Stacy who wondered if maybe your body was in starvation mode and if this is derailing your valiant efforts. It could be something to consider. Maybe your weight gain at transitioning to Phase II is your bodies way of say, "Finally food! I'm going to store it just in case she decides to starve me again."
For me personally, I find mixing things up (eating breakfast at dinner, dinner at lunch... different veggies, lean proteins) to work for my body and I'm happy with my weight loss progress. Maybe changing things (like phase II and/or changing what/when you eat) could be a good shake up for your body.
Once again Linden, I wish I had something concrete to offer you. Stay strong, you've got a lot of people pulling for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessicaCourez
I'm happy to be a new 'life after phase I' thread 'member' ... I'll wait for my patch or pin to come in the mail...since I'm starting phase II tomorrow morning.
Linden, I'm so sorry things are going so crappy for you. I too just don't understand it. This sounds like a question for Dr. Tran himself. Maybe Carla could contact him for you? Seems like I recall she actually did that once before.
I've never actually met my coach, since she's on another island. And she's so swamped starting and keeping up with her business, and her husband's, it's difficult to get a simple answer from her.
Carla was kind enough to suggest that I get in touch with Dr. Tran when I get to Europe, to find a way to continue the program, and I had planned to do that, relying on my son's French. But he's in the final stages of editing a film and just started a post-doctoral program. Between the two, and family, and traveling, he barely knows which end is up. I guess your suggestion is maybe just the boost I need to do it on my own -- even in my lousy French.
Congrats on reaching Phase 3 and the big breakfasts! Your breakfast sounds delicious, but you might want to rethink the fat content. We're allowed 15 grams of fat for the whole day, counting the fat in everything. One egg by itself contains 5 grams of fat. Then there's the fat in the toast, bacon, and yogurt. Looks like you're having all your fat for the day at breakfast.
Bev - The way I read the Phase 3 sheet is that the totals refer to breakfast only (30g or less of grain carbs, 20g or less of fruit carbs, 15g or less from dairy carbs, 25g of protein and less than 15g of fat.) Are you sure we're only allowed 15g fat per day?? This doesn't seem right to me. Actually, if you look at all the Phase 3 sample breakfast menus provided, they all seem to contain approx. 15g of fat. Now I'm really confused!
Linden - So sorry to see you going through such a rough time. If you haven't done it already, I think maybe you should try changing it up and having restricteds. It's worth a shot. Good luck!
How was your weight loss/gain/maintenance BEFORE starting IP? Were you the type of individual who basically stayed the same weight for great lengths of time? Or did you gain regardless of how/what you ate? Just wondering if maybe how your body was previously is any indication of why you're not losing at a quicker rate. Regardless, it sounds like your body is stubborn! Lol.
I think you've hit on something that has interested me since I started the program. For two years prior to starting IP I worked with a Kaiser nutritionist and followed a strict 1350 calorie regimen -- low calorie, high fiber (25 grams) in the form of lentils, beans, fruit, and vegetables, 11 grams saturated fat, 12 MUFAs and 6 polyunsaturated fat, 30 sugar, 70 grams of protein, and between 110-140 carbohydrates. I steadily gained 20 pounds over two years; lost energy; and could barely exercise. In retrospect I'd say the carbs were the villain. But I sure tried to make it work.
I would have thought that the switch to IP would have been a surprise/shock to the system. And I have lost the 20 pounds (going up and down) and then stopped dead without touching the 30+ pounds I gained before and after hypothyroidism was diagnosed.
I think it was Stacy who wondered if maybe your body was in starvation mode and if this is derailing your valiant efforts. It could be something to consider. Maybe your weight gain at transitioning to Phase II is your bodies way of say, "Finally food! I'm going to store it just in case she decides to starve me again."
I think I was in starvation mode while I was keeping total carbs below 25 (not subtracting fiber). And I could never get quite to 800 calories a day. Since then I've upped the carbs to 30-35/day and for three days I've held steady or lost a few ounces.
For me personally, I find mixing things up (eating breakfast at dinner, dinner at lunch... different veggies, lean proteins) to work for my body and I'm happy with my weight loss progress. Maybe changing things (like phase II and/or changing what/when you eat) could be a good shake up for your body.
I used to mix things up -- eating dinner for breakfast because that's when I'm hungry and seem to need the most protein. But went back to the traditional format when that didn't work.
Does any of this make sense? Can you see the missing piece?
Each one of these is either recommended by my GP, my Fibro doctor, or coach, and they all agree that the whole bunch is OK and needed.
