Diet Coaches – Re: Program-day 16: Prevent Unplanned Eating. (Thanks Sue.) I recognize that feeling of calmness when eating on plan most strongly as the absence of entertaining rather odd thoughts of how to get as much food as possible (as I think when I'm in an unplanned situation). Even though I plan to eat samples at Whole Foods, I still find myself wondering if I can spear two cubes of cheese with one stick of the toothpick. Now, that's really embarrassing, really grubby. But that's exactly the thinking of my previous continuously grazing lifestyle and it's sitting right there on my brain. Sometimes I am able to recognize the errant thinking with toothpick in hand, and then, sometimes able to change the thinking. It's the stupid thinking that bugs me, not the 2nd cube of cheese.
If that kind of thinking went away, I'd feel more confident that my journey is safely a lifetime change. On the other hand, perhaps it would be wise of me to accept that this thinking does exist in my brain, it isn't going away, and to work harder at being on guard to counter it rather than complaining about it. Gotta work on that.
Sue (CoastalSue) - Kudos for responding so rapidly to your DH's tick; sending best wishes that it doesn't convey lyme disease. I like your GET REAL card and the thought "Let the vision of food being emotionally healing go. It cures hunger not fatigue, sadness, anger, confusion etc." Good stuff those five rules you have.
Heidi (hbuchwald) - Congrats for being close to 50 pounds lost and Kudos for having a reward planned for getting there. LOL at "...as I walk in place and type at the same time." You remind me that the article confronted me with the fact that I have been and I am a more sedentary person. I have friends (lean) who are always moving. I have a relative (obese) who is amazing at being able to sit in exactly one place for LONG periods of time. I had the feeling that it's unfair that I'm more sedentary - my daily walking is planned. Must consider using the unfairness strategies on that one.
onebyone – Big Kudos for using NO CHOICE while hungry during a "3 hour quick chat" - such good Beck style. Kudos for the 15 minute walk. Sending supportive thoughts that you get your submissions done this week, and wishing you good luck that the various judges see your work.
amy (gahundy) – Kudos for describing so well the feeling of not being done even though not hungry. Beck writes at length about Desire - when we want more just because we want more. In addition to Nessa's suggestions, what works for me at lunch is a LARGE bowl of raw veggies. They stretch out my lunch so that the mildly full feeling can get to my brain as well as adding to my fullness (and besides I love them).
Yep, I'd agree with you, "that some of my thinking has changed already." It's a big deal to be able to stand back and see feelings of hunger, desire, and cravings rather than just to respond to them. Kudos, Kudos; you're on your way here.
Nessa (ladybugnessa) - LOL at your title; boy does Beck ever bring out our resistance to being told what to do. Re: "what do i do about the fact that hunger tolerance goes against EVERYTHING my plan is about???" I shared that conflict; I eat 3 snacks between my 3 meals just to keep hunger in check. However, my take is that the goal of skipping a meal is to experience that 1) the discomfort of hunger is fairly low compared to other discomforts, and 2) that hunger goes away after a brief spell, allowing us to conclude for ourselves that 3) Hunger is not an emergency. Using a day when you skip a meal because you're too busy would seem to allow the exercise if you are able to take the time to record the discomfort and its duration.
Since I've done the exercise, I continue with my snacks, but with less feeling of desperation that the result of getting hungry will throw me off track. Now, when I do skip a meal or snack my mind is clear to use some of the strategies to keep from eating out of control when I next eat - such as starting with hot soup or water, and extra care to eat slowly and mindfully to support stopping since part of my brain is screaming for me to eat uncontrollably to make up for the great deprivation. Good luck figuring out how to proceed through this.
Readers – "… Most individuals who lose weight on a diet start to gain it back within a year. … " From the Forward by Aaron T. Beck, M.D., Beck, pg 10.
So many great posts to read. This morning I am just letting your words seep into me.
I am tired. I have much to do today to get everything completed for tomorrow. I heard the prints I want to submit have been matted and are ready for pickup, so one submission is almost complete. I opted to go to a movie yesterday evening, partly to maintain our (DH and me) movie date committment which we both enjoy, instead of pushing myself to make things when I was overly tired. I knew it was not in me to make things yesterday. Today, it'll just have to be! I can rest tomorrow after school. I faced a big challenge at the theatre. I planned to get a big coffee at the show (I was really looking forward to it) and for the umpteenth time coffee was unavailable. I didn't want a diet pop-- I am trying to limit fake sugars-yuk-and I did not want to pay $3 for a bottle of water. I think from now on I'll bring an empty container to get tap water in case the coffee isn't available again. DH got the #1: medium popcorn, large pop (reg) and small candy (red nibs a favorite of mine). I had nothing. We stood at the candy counter for a few extra minutes while I fumed over the lack of coffee again, and DH commiserated with me and offered to buy me something else and I just said no. I thought just go in, sit down, watch the show. No problem. OH WELL... he offered me popcorn and candy, but only once. I said no both times. And when I got home I was happy that I didn't give in. I kept thinking the food was not worth the fretting over the calories, the going off plan, the giving in again... And when I came home I didn't overeat over my annoynance either. So that was my big success yesterday. I am usually weak under stress and so far so good. I need to stay on guard for the next few days and through the weekend! Thanks for being here gang. I have to rush off again... enjoy your day!
Good morning everyone... so much to say to so many....
did not move forward to day 12 yet... still chewing (pardon the pun) on day 11 and the hunger tolerance. I've been there with minor tolerance. what i wonder about is those days that i've had the drop in blood sugar and i'm weak, and queasy, and light headed.... and i know it's just cause i need to eat... and sometimes i just have to wait to get home to do this... oh it's an awful horrible feeling but no it won't kill me... I KNOW THIS.
sometimes i think that although I don't have an eating disorder I do have eating issues... not sure this cognitive therapy works well on ADHD folks however....
yesterday i was off my plan because I ate sushi. I felt so guilty about it NOT because i was off my plan but BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE who i know ONLINE only, gave me a hard time about it. I'm so not perfect but that does not mean I don't know what i'm talking about when I explain SBD to others. I didn't realize that being perfect on the plan was a prerequiste for helping... I think my anger really affected the way i feel about me.... maybe i should NOT help... maybe i'm not competent. but i'm 75 pounds lighter than i was March 2006.... that's gotta count for SOMETHING right???
Nessa, just a quick reply - your feelings after someone gave you a hard time online - sounds like you've really internalized it. if that makes you feel bad, let it go! someone else has issues with being perfectly on plan, and it is what it is, but it doesn't have anything to do with you. this person was reacting to something internal for him/her, just like whatever button s/he managed to push in you is internal for you. it's just a thought or a feeling, but it sounds like it's triggering something in you. if i had to guess, i'd say it's got something to do with your feeling criticized or not good enough. might be a useful opportunity for you to discover something about how you've been operating in the world. i had a similar experience on the nursing moms thread, when someone wrote about her beautiful natural childbirth, and that the hospital/pain med/ etc. part of it was unnecessary, caused by mistaken beliefs about pain during childbirth. it PISSED ME OFF bigtime and i felt like i was being personally criticized and judged for the way my labor and delivery went. made me even madder because i'd invested 5 months into hypnobirthing classes, and right up until the big event i was saying all the things this poster was saying. i got so mad i never posted there again. yeah, that showed her. no one judges me and makes me feel bad without being aware of it!
also had some thoughts about your issues with day 12. i had the exact same ones - and i overdid it, and ended up with a headache and low blood sugar. it sucked. if you start feeling bad, EAT SOMETHING! it's not meant to be the Batan death march. i'm in agreement with Bill.
hopefully i'll have time to check in later but if i don't, oh well!
nessa: i am so sorry you had such a rough day. you are here to get support and to give it, not to be someone's perfect personal role model. if you can be a role model that's great but that person needs to realize that not everyone is perfect even role models. and i am sorry but big whoop that you ate sushi, it is one of the more healthier choices that i know of, fish, rice, veggies, i never heard of anyone thinking sushi was an unhealthy choice. and even if it was deep fried and smothered in chocolate, who cares? you have lost ALOT of weight and if you need something special on occasion, go for it! boy now i am getting worked up! we must have bonded somewhere in the posting. i know that today will be better!
i just wanted to say "thanks" to everybody for all the great advice on wanting to eat even though i wasn't hungry, it's also good to know that i am normal in this and everybody feels this way sometimes.
today i am in a very good mood( i remembered to take my b12 and i am pratically flying) bfast was string cheese and a fruit bowl, no morning snack, lunch will be a healthy choice meal although at the moment i can't remember which one and dinner will be chili. i also have a step class this afternoon. so things are going very well for me and i am staying positive and motivated so yay me!
will come back and check on every body else later when i get more time, busy busy at work today!
have a great day everybody!!!
amy
Amy darling thanks... this person actually is almost to goal and I do treat A LOT... white rice is not allowed on my plan. I'm actually thinking of switching to my secondary plan.... for a while at least....
I would like to announce that I waited today to eat my oatmeal till I felt hunger pangs... that growling empty tummy feeling. now i have mouth hunger but it's lunch time around here... but i cannot be hungry... an hour ago i ate oatmeal and a banana...
I'm jumping the gun on posting this tomorrow post while it's still technically today (11:55pm) but I've got a ton to do in the morning before class and I wanted to check in before I find I haven't checked in at all.
I had an interesting thing happen to me today. I ended up missing lunch today (it seems to happen on Thursdays) and I ate my breakfast/lunch snack at 5pm while waiting for the bus to take me home from school. So there I am on the bus, and it passes by this great middle eastern food place that's near where I live. I see their big sign out advertising their special: whole roast chicken, rice, potatoes and salad, $14.99. Okay, so I am tired, stressed, still pretty hungry (7/10) and I just got mad when i read the sign. I thought "I can't believe I'm never going to be able to eat until I am overstuffed again." Lest I reveal my poor food ways, in another day and time I would have eaten that whole chicken, except for maybe a leg, and most of everything else too. I would have been so full to bursting that I truly would feel sick, but at the same time, in those moods, I'd be thinking what food was next and planning me getting it while I was still eating what was in front of me. I just ate ate ate until I hurt. what's weird about the thoughts is that some part of me obviously assumes I am serious with this Beck stuff and that I may not do that to myself anymore. Gee. could that be true? Have I actually digested Beck to that point? I knew that I was in a danger zone once I started eating and so I had my dinner. Then I had a measured desert. And I still wanted to eat, trying to excuse it by saying I had missed a meal so I was "entitled" to more, but I didn't give in. I told myself I could have more in an hour or two if I still wanted it and I got busy again and now it's too late so that's that. Credit moi.
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I just lost everything else I wrote over the last half hour and I am really sleepy now so I will say goodnight and wish you guys all the best for tomorrow! TGIF
Diet Coaches – At my dental checkup yesterday, I was told my flossing was good. CREDIT moi. [Slightly embarrassed to be giving myself credit like a little kid.] Wishing I could go for a regular Beck checkup where I’m poked with little needles and declared to be following the rules, LOL.
Yesterday I worked late under much duress, feeling all the stress, but didn’t go to the vending machines. I had my own stash of a healthy emergency snack (1//4 cup of soy nuts) to tide me over while working late and missing my relaxed tea and snack at home. CREDIT moi.
One more day of crunch time at work before returning to normal. I’ll just read my Believe It card this morning and attack my day knowing that I can do it without resorting to mindless trips to the vending machines. It just blows my mind that that is possible for me. Life would be simpler if I didn't procrastinate and get in these binds, but, given that I do, it's nice that I won't try to eat my way out of it like I previously did.
Sue (CoastalSue) – Waving toward the West Coast.
Heidi (hbuchwald) - Waving toward the West Coast.
Jean (kuhljeanie) – Sending supporting thoughts for feeling dissed about childbirth. I understand the feeling of being judged and that the feeling is doubled when it’s misdirected. Our second child was an emergency C-sect when the midwife turned DW over to the resident because DD wouldn't turn head down. Emergency enough that I had to stand outside the door even though fully garbed to be inside. Later, it made me cringe wondering if I had been one of those people who sounded too smug describing the near text book midwife delivery of our first. Cringing again just thinking about it.
onebyone – Kudos to your DH for offering popcorn only once – great that he doesn’t try to deal with HIS discomfort at your unhappiness by pushing food!!! Kudos to you both for working out a relationship so that he knows that that’s the right thing to do. Kudos to you for turning it down when emotions were sufficiently amok to run the show. If you can handle that one, you can do anything. It appears to me that Beck has crept into the fiber of your bones - there’s no turning back now, LOL.
And then you do it again the next night. Just WOW at the thoughts about that whole chicken dinner - especially because I could have had the exact same thoughts. Why am I still drawn to massive over eating? I’m not nearly so drawn to a tasty chicken as I am to a WHOLE chicken. Doubly so to a whole chicken with LARGE sides at a VALUE PRICE. Every Saturday I drool when I walk past the market special of a flame broiled chicken for $3.99. Since DW serves chicken several times a week I’m not chicken deprived, but I am WHOLE chicken deprived. This isn’t thinking like a thin person. Big Kudos for using your Beck to stand down the attraction. It encourages me that someone else who is working on a sane approach to food can have their entire massive human intelligence flare up in such a manner. < /my rant about old thinking on your time>
amy (gahundy) – Good to hear all is well today.
Nessa (ladybugnessa) – Kudos for working through your anger about being dissed for sushi. Methinks that’s just what Beck is trying to push us toward - to be aware of what we’re thinking to give us a chance to reevaluate thinking errors. Also think that Jean (kuhljeanie)’s response, "it's not meant to be the Bataan death march," is a great perspective for getting through Program-day 12: Practice Hunger Tolerance.
I’ve never heard the phrase "mouth hunger". Is that yours?
Readers – "…Few medical treatments have been developed to ameliorate this problem, and the treatments that do exist have significant drawbacks. … " From the Forward by Aaron T. Beck, M.D., Beck, pg 10.
quick post Bill check page 117 of Beck... where is your hunger.. is it in your mouth or your throat. it's interesting that she asks that since I've always used the term MOUTH HUNGER to indicate that I want to eat when i'm not physcially hungry...
today is a much better day! yay me. I was spot on my food plan yesterday Yay me! or CREDIT MOI as the word of choice I guess.
still struggling with feeling like a failure for not being at goal nearly 2 years into my quest and for being 3 pounds heavier than my lowest weight on plan so far.... but that's for a different post...
Picked SATURDAY for my skip lunch day.... we will be running around it's a good day... then we are going to a bull roast for dinner. my biggest fear is that i'll be SO hungry that i'll eat off plan food.... sometimes it's hard to be doing South Beach when we go out and i dont' have CHOICES of what food is offered....
Today is Day 13... Overcome Cravings....
since i've been on plan for nearly 2 years and "just say no" is already part of my vocabulary I don't see where this will be an issue.
i did practice mindful and slow eating of my egg this morning. i sort of gulped my v8 but it was good...
Haven't posted in a few days (again), since my scary heart night. I've been fine since then. Food and exercise continue to go very well for me....I'm working on believing it. One by one, I loved the story about the chicken....I can so relate....Yes, we may never do that kind of thing to ourselved again.
Today is day 40 for me!!!!!! Overall, I'm feeling very solid in this. So far, there haven't been any major slips or major struggles. I'm trying to BELIEVE IT...part of me is still expecting the other shoe to drop, though.
I'm getting ready to take it on the road...going to a family wedding in NJ this weekend, leaving Sat. a.m. and coming back Monday. Dinner and family gathering on Sat. evening, wedding is Sun. mid-afternoon. I've been planning food and exercise. I'm bringing some snacks with me, meals will be moderate and low fat to the extent available. I'm planning on exercising on Sat. before we leave, and bringing exercise clothes with me. There should be time for either the fitness center at the hotel or a walk outside on Sunday before the wedding and on Monday morning, since we'll probably wait until after rush hour to leave.
One thing I've been thinking about is sweets. I've had a couple of relatively long sweet-free stretches in my life (about a year each), and when I've gone back to eating sweets it's been with out-of-control vengeance. Now I've been 40 days sweet free, but thinking it may be best to not have a total sweets taboo. So, my current plan is to allow myself 3 slow savored bites of sweets at the wedding. I really hope this goes well.
Good morning all!
onebyone: great job on NOT going to the indian restaurant. for me,it wouldn't have been about eating til over stuffed but more about--that is too good of a deal to pass up! that's why i used to supersize, it's only 30 cents more! it's CHEAPER to do that than to get a regular size meal. but i have since changed my thinking on that. it maybe cheaper at the moment but plus size clothes cost more than misses size clothes!
bill: you are always so full of good advice. and i too hav etrouble making myself floss so i would be just as excited to hear from a pro that i am flossing well. i agree... we should be able to have a beck checkup where the doc just looks at us and says yep, your doing it right!
Nessa: glad your day was better! i did sb for awhile so i know the basic rules, but can you come off the plan for one meal ( say dinner out where you won't have much choices) or will it really be a set back? i know some plans are so strict that if you come off for even one meal you have to start at the beginning again. well i wish you luck and don't worry about how long you have worked and that you are not at goal yet. they say the slower you lose it the longer it stays off. and you have still lost alot of weight!
as for me well coaches, i ate an unplanned portion of my dinner last night. i didn't even try to talk myself out of it, i just zoned out and did what my rebellious side said! but not to worry, i am back on track today. i think that so far that what i have learned most from beck is to get right back at it and not let one slip back track me for days or weeks even.
credit moi for getting back on track today and not making excuse to stay off plan!
today i am going to be working on day 8: making time for diet and exercise. i will be meeting with my live action coach. i love all of you, my ecoaches, my i get instant feed back from my live action coach. anyway she is amazing, she teaches aerobics at my gym, but she used to weigh 350 pounds! i can't even imagine not only being able to comfortably take aerobics and keeping up but to actually teaching it!! it's just awesome, maybe one day i will be teaching aerobics and helping others to lose weight!
anyway i have to get busy, hope everyone has a great day!
amy
was thinking about onebyone's comment about not doing this to herself anymore. this sounds a little like what i was trying to describe a couple of weeks back, when i talked about being sad about changing. when i read your post, i suddenly realized what it's really about. when i'm seriously bingeing, to the point where it hurts, it's not about the food. we all know that although we say it in different ways (coastalsue puts it very elegantly.) we could actually care less about the food, and i know this because when i binge, i gravitate towards the crappiest thing i can find to put in my mouth. nope, ain't the food, and it ain't the eating, because we also all know that we're pretty much out of our bodies when we're doing it - "zoned out" or however you describe it. so. i thought, crappy food, don't really enjoy it, it's uncomfortable or even painful afterwards, what could i possibly be getting out of doing this that i seem to keep doing it? duh me, it's exactly that zoned-outness. like taking a nap or more accurately, a break from my life. it's literally like a 20 minute (or however long) vacation from whatever i'm in the middle of. it's like going to sleep. it just doesn't last.
funny enough i was listening to marianne williamson who was quoting a course in miracles and said something like, "you will not get the rest you seek from sleeping. you'll get the rest you seek from waking up." still trying to get my head around that one. i suspect that part of my trying to "sleep" includes hyperextending myself (or creating situations where I feel like others are hyperextending me) and i'm wondering how to get there from here. hm.
thanks bill for sharing that fairly personal story. i responded to the word "smug." i'm pretty sure that's what angered me about what this particular poster wrote. it's an important thing for me to hear, though, since i'm 100% guilty too. just a reminder to self that unless i understand exactly what someone else has gone through (and do we EVER?) i'm in no position to make a judgement about them. this includes judging myself. btw, kudos on the flossing! i brush twice a day but must admit i could use a little more flossing. must remember to credit myself when i do it.
big credit to barb - i applaud you for having enough self-awareness to come up with a plan to avoid setting yourself up for a sweets setback at some point in the future! i had several weeks of being perfectly on plan, no deviations, no nothing - and so when i inevitably ate something that wasn't clean, it was a Big Deal and really didn't have to be. kudos to you!!!!
today i'm getting back to basics. maintaining is starting to feel a little like a slow slide back to the wild west - i hadn't been at Beck long enough for it to ingrain enough to coast. (are we ever? ) so today i scheduled an hour on my calendar to scour recipes and put together a shopping and cooking list for tomorrow. credit moi for realigning before my pants start getting tight again!
Last edited by kuhljeanie; 03-28-2008 at 09:54 AM.
jean congrats to you for catching your slow slide early.
barbpos I know you will have a great time this weekend and can tell you are in control!
amy: going off SBD is allowed. it's just that the reason i was so upset yesterday was that the person who upset me said i never eat clean and i do 'treat a lot' i had sushi on wednesday and that's off plan.... i can easily eat close to plan at the bull roast.. and with my BECK focus being NOT on the food I might be just fine....
it's after 1 here. Lunch is normally at 11:30 but i ate my oatmeal at 10:30 and i'm trying to NOT eat till i'm hungry....
i'm also trying to figure out what level my hunger is. I mean i know 1 is not hungry and 10 is starving... am i at a 3 or a 4 or maybe a 6 and do you eat at a 6 or wait for an 8?
nessa: i just checked the book and she doesn't say "eat at this number" but in the example she gives the dieter starts her meal at an 8 score. she does also say that if it has been less than 3 hours since your last meal it is probably a desire to eat and not a need. hope this helps!
good luck,
amy
Thursday
no one judges me and makes me feel bad without being aware of it! 
it's not meant to be the Batan death march. i'm in agreement with Bill. 
i know that today will be better!
and I am really sleepy now so I will say goodnight and wish you guys all the best for tomorrow! TGIF
