That was an interesting article, Palestrina. What is your opinion on the subject? What I got from it was that there is such a thing as mind-hunger as compared to physical hunger. There's a very fine line between the two, and it's important to learn the difference. Eat when you're hungry and stop when your satisfied is very difficult unless you figure this out.

I agree very much. Another thing I got from this is that the medical community truly does not give enough attention to the psychological aspect of hunger. I see people trying to manipulate their physiology with food. Low carbers especially, when they try to tell me that if I don't eat carbs that I eventually will stop craving carbs. There was someone on these forums a while back that constantly claimed that his hunger was completely gone because he went LCHF. It always struck me as odd, how do you know when to eat if you're never hungry?

I think food has a definitely effect on our physiology, yes the more I eat sweets the more I crave them. But the solution to "stop eating all sugar" is not the right solution for me at all. I don't know if I'm making any sense but eliminating certain foods and allowing others only has a negative effect on me, it perpetuates my disordered eating.

Hunger is a basic function of our body. Just like thirst, fatigue, aches and pains, they're all just signal of what our body needs. Our diet-obsessed culture has taught people to fear and mistrust their hunger. I feel better off when I see hunger for what it is and trust it rather than suppress it, ignore it, fear it, or cheat it.

Palestrina, I did read the article, too. Certainly want my food to be healthy, and want to chew. I've discovered that liquid calories don't last as long as the ones that require me to chew.

I do refuse to count calories, but realize that my years of study of nutrition allows me to automatically estimate the calories and helps me make choices.

Becoming more active helps me remain alert during more hours of the day. I do choose to be more active, keep what muscle I have from disappearing. My mood is better when I move, but I also prefer to accomplish something with the movement.

I forget eating when I'm busy.

Hey all hope everyone is well. I'm not gone, I'm always here just not posting much. I'm still going with IE though ivebhad some weight gain recently. Still exercising and feeling good though!

Glad you're doing well, Palestrina!

I found myself once again trying to restrict; each morning I'd get up and think that today is the day I'm going to eat healthy, try to stay away from too many carbs, avoid processed foods, and so on. I even lapsed into calorie counting a couple of times.

All I managed to do was make myself miserable. AND hungry - hungry ALL DAY LONG.

Finally, yesterday, I decided I'd had enough of it. I would eat whatever it was that I wanted when I got hungry and that was that.

Yesterday morning I had to run some early morning errands, so I treated myself to breakfast at Waffle House, a place I'd been avoiding like the plague. (Those of you who aren't familiar with it, suffice it to say that it's major breakfast comfort food - eggs, toast or biscuits, hash browns, bacon or sausage, the works - and/or waffles, of course). It never fails that when I eat breakfast there it keeps me satisfied until mid-afternoon, and yesterday was no exception. Which was somewhat odd, as I didn't even have bacon. I did end up leaving one half-slice of toast & probably about half of the hash browns, so I really didn't eat that much. And I only had one egg.

I came back home, got busy, and didn't even start to get hungry until about 3:30. I had to go back out, so I decided to go to subway for something to eat. The reason I decided to do that was the WRONG reason - I had won a $30 subway card (which required me to download their app and load the credit on there) so I thought "well, it's free, so that's what I'll get." But after I ran my afternoon errand I realized that I wasn't in the mood for Subway so I decided to go to Arby's instead.

What a disaster that was! As I told the manager, I had to wait 15 minutes for some of the worst food I've ever had served to me. I ended up doing something I RARELY do...I asked for a refund. (I had taken two bites out of my food - one from the sandwich, one from the hash browns) and knew I wasn't going to eat any more. It was horrible. They did give me back my money and I left, thinking I'll just either go to Subway or someplace else.

And then I had an amazing revelation - I was no longer hungry! No kidding, two bites of food and my hunger was gone. Maybe it was because I was so annoyed - I don't know - but I had no desire for food. So I went on home, knowing that I had any number of things I could eat should I get hungry later.

And I did - so I had some crackers and cheese.

When I look back on what I ate yesterday, I realize that I probably ate less than I do on any day that I'm trying to restrict. And I didn't go to bed hungry - just satisfied.

So I don't know WHY I continue to think that dieting is going to work for me - because it isn't. I just hope I can keep this mindset going.

Very interesting.

I have told this story before, and I am in no way suggesting that others do this, just explaining what happened to me. I used to be really big on sweets. Candy, cake, cookies, and lots of them. I tried cutting back when I was diagnosed with diabetes but the attraction was too strong and I was weak. Somewhere along the line I decided I needed more nutrition in my diet and I started eating lots of vegetables. I did not stop eating the sweets, just increased the vegetables. Gradually I noticed I was no longer craving sweets. I haven't eliminated them, but it's a once-in-a-while thing now instead of daily, and when I do eat them, sometimes they taste sickeningly sweet and I can only eat a small amount, or I have to have some coffee to get that sweet taste out of my mouth. I guess eating more of the vegetables changed my taste buds from sweet to savory. Don't get me wrong, I still have problems with eating only when hungry and stopping when satisfied, but I'm eating far less sugar.

If I am honest with myself, I realize that when I start eating a meal I feel "satisfied" after just a few bites, but I continue eating anyway. I tell myself that that small amount that I ate couldn't possibly be enough. I usually package up leftovers or bring them home from a restaurant so they are available if I get hungry later on, but I seem to think that I should attempt to finish it at mealtime.

Palestrina, I need to limit carbs because of my diabetes, but I don't eat what is considered a LCHF diet. I do post on a forum with some people who do, and from reading their posts, they never actually lose their cravings for carbs. They often mention falling off the wagon and indulging in something sweet or high carb. The urge is there, they just fight it. They might lose their hunger pains as we know them, and that's due to the high fat content of their diet, but hunger and cravings are 2 different things. They still crave things, especially when another family member or friend is eating them.

Southern Maven, back when I was thin I always ate a big breakfast. Breakfast food has always been my favorite. It looked like such a big meal, but it kept me satisfied for hours, probably because I ate what I wanted. Many times I skipped supper because I just didn't feel hunger and the food didn't appeal to me. Eating what you like is a big part of satisfaction. When I got married, dinner was a very important part of my husband's life and he always wanted me to eat with him.

Wannabehealthy I like to think that way too. Instead of eliminating things I add wholesome food to my diet. Broccoli and mashed potatoes both fit on my plate, I just happen to eat less potatoes if I eat all my broccoli (which I also like). Makes sense to me.

Hmm, how can I say this in a non controversial way? I don't want to ruffle feathers. I DO believe that processed food is created to be addictive. It is engineered to hit our palates in a very powerful way. I can even see why people think ia logical solution would be to ban all foods that may cause this reaction. Cravings subside, hunger goes away (whatever that! means) But this way of eating often means that when you indulge in your forbidden foods it may set you reeling back into "addiction." So yes I think foods can be addictive but I don't not believe that the addiction model of abstinence works. I don't know anyone it has worked for long term. At some point you will have to learn to make peace with white food, or else. Just my opinion.

Palestrina, I understand what you're saying and agree with you to a point. I don't think of food addiction, but rather compulsion. It is not lead by physical hunger. There are some people who, if they eat one cookie, cannot put the box away, but end up eating the whole box. I don't think anyone wants to do that. They would much rather be able to eat one cookie and enjoy it and go on with their day. To me, this is where behavior modification comes in. You are not necessarily abstaining from eating that food, but working on breaking the habit of over eating. And that's what it is, a habit. That's not the same as dieting. Dieting is when you eat a certain way for the purpose of losing weight and then go back to your old way of eating after you lose the weight. IMO, there is nothing wrong with eating potatoes, rice, pasta, sweets or bread as part of your meal and enjoying it, in a reasonable portion. A person can have a dish of ice cream or a piece of pie after dinner. But if they sit in front of the TV and eat the whole carton of ice cream in one sitting, that's just a bad habit and can be broken. So many people eliminate foods because they realize that it sets them up for a binge. They would be much better off in the long run to work at learning portion control. KWIM? It doesn't come natural, it does take work, but I don't consider working at it as dieting. It's just changing your habits. If a person had a habit of picking their nose, it would take some control on their part to break that habit. They wouldn't say, "Well, picking my nose just comes natural to me so I'm going to continue it."

If someone insists on telling you to stay away from processed foods, it's addictive, etc, that's just their opinion. You also have your opinion, and the right to your own opinion. Each person has to do what works for them. I personally prefer to eat whole fresh foods because I think they taste better. But I do eat processed foods, too, just not as much as I used to. For me, the amount of food is my problem, not what the food is.

I do a fair amount of reading and I'm endlessly fascinated by the effect food has on us, physically, mentally, emotionally. It cannot be disputed that food has an effect on us. We run into trouble when we start using words like toxic, poison, addiction etc. it makes eating like voodoo sort of like if you can't control your sugar intake it's easier to call it poison and stay away from it. This comes from fear and it has a negative effect on every area of life, think about that when it comes to civil rights. We try to ban what we fear. I'm not trying to get political, just saying.

Forming habits is a big part of this for me too. I'm in the habit of reaching for food when stress and anxiety appears. I'm in the habit of reaching for food when joy appears. That's why I read books like brain over binge. I think IE and that book together work really well for me.

I've been reading Kelsey Miller's Big Girl like someone mentioned earlier. What a great book. It seems like every IE book I read helps me to really understand how legalizing all foods really does eat to normalizing your eating.

Since we're talking more food specific these days, I'll say that legalizing dessert has made such a difference in my life.

I hope this doesn't trigger/offend anyone, but as I've said before, when I first started legalizing all foods, there was a good bit of binge eating. It was like I just couldn't believe that I could *always* eat ice cream or oreos whenever I wanted them.

18 months later, I have ice cream every couple of weeks and eat a 3-5 oreos (or whatever sweet) after dinner a few times a week.

Somehow after all the binges it has really started to sink in that if I want to eat an entire bag of oreos I can. And somehow, knowing that I can means that I don't have to.

I still have my challenges and am quite sensitive to "diet talk", but I feel like IE is really starting to work.

I think I'm going to start a separate thread on IE books, just because I'm always looking for a new one and it would be nice to have a list in one thread.

Please share your favorite IE books on that thread.

Beginme there is a thread like that I can't search for it right now but hold off because I can find it.

Well, that's what you have to do Palestrina, what works for you, no matter what someone else says. A lot of people call sugar "poison" because it helps them avoid it. If it works for them, fine, but it doesn't work that way for everyone.

Beginme, when faced with a bag of Oreos there's 4 steps you can choose.

1. Don't eat any because they're not allowed on your "diet."
2. Limit yourself to 2 per day and figure it into your plan.
3. Sit in front of the TV and eat the whole bag.
4. Eat whatever amount satisfies you and then put them away. They will still be there if you decide you want more.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which one you chose, as long as it was YOUR choice!

Here it is, the thread is called "IE-Books and Resources." Please add to it.
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/chic...resources.html

I've started a cleanse. Not what you're thinking though, it's not a diet and it has nothing to do with changing what you eat. I'm doing The Prime, which is an aruyvedic cleanse developed by a neurologist. I was talking to my doctor about my chronic digestive issues and declining health and she spoke to me about addressing my gut health. Aruyvedic medicine believes that all health problems stem from poor digestion which causes inflammation in the body. The program starts simply and becomes more involved as you go along but it's basically just drinking tea and taking herbs. My doc thought this would be a good fit for me since the program does not require me to eliminate anything from my diet and it could really help me recover from some chronic health problems I can't seem to bounce off. This doctor has also found that her patients lose weight naturally once they heal their gut and strengthen the good gut bacteria.