Looking for some input here... I'm kind of interested in adapting Dr. Natasha Turner's 'The Carb Sensitivity' Program, insofar as adding back in complex carbs to my diet...she puts her clients on a low carb diet that is very similiar to IP's P1 (but whole food, not packets), then has them add back in complex carbs according to the following schedule: Wk 1 - add back in fruit; Wk 2- keep fruit, and add some starchy veg; Wk 3 - keep fruit & starchy veg and add back legumes; Wk 4 - keep fruit & starchy veg & legumes, and add back low GI grain like Ezekiel bread or guinoa; Wk 5 - now that you've re-incorporated fruit, starchy veg, legumes, and the grains recommended for Wk 4, add back in low GI high fibre grains like whole wheat pasta, kamut products, brown rice etc. The purpose is to 'test' the body at these stages and see which level of complex carb results in weight gain (and a bunch of other symptoms she describes as well).
I've also reviewed all my P3 literature though, and it really stresses how important this phase is for 'resetting the pancreas'. I'd hate to do anything to mess it up. I've read we're only supposed to stay on P3 for 2 weeks and if I switched to Dr. Turner's program for the rest of the two weeks I'd only be at the added fruit + starchy veg by the end of that time. Plus, I've already been adding back in some grains already. Anybody got any thoughts on this?
evepet wow, tough question! I've never read her book....but I know the full breakfast and eating it all in one sitting is really what was stressed to me. Previous posters, jennydoodle and capricious did something with that book. Personally I'd do the two weeks and then play with the book guidelines....I learned hit and miss what I can and can't have....took me a while to figure out I was lactose intolerant but it didn't take me long to figure out that I shouldn't be eating wheat....CORN! I had a violent reaction too! That one was obvious....
I agree with Ishbel - do P3 by the book...then once you've hit maintenance see how you feel. If you feel like you might have sensitivity to something you were eating in P3 (you should know after 2 weeks), then follow along with the book's recommendations. At that point your glycogen stores will be replenished, you won't be in ketosis anymore, so it will be more like starting the book's program as if you weren't dieting beforehand.
Maintenance is really a "write your own plan" phase - IP has its own guidelines, but I've seen people choose to go Paleo in maintenance, or follow slightly different guidelines that work better for their lifestyle and eating habits.
evepet wow, tough question! I've never read her book....but I know the full breakfast and eating it all in one sitting is really what was stressed to me. Previous posters, jennydoodle and capricious did something with that book. Personally I'd do the two weeks and then play with the book guidelines....I learned hit and miss what I can and can't have....took me a while to figure out I was lactose intolerant but it didn't take me long to figure out that I shouldn't be eating wheat....CORN! I had a violent reaction too! That one was obvious....
Sorry I'm not more helpful!
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorbett1103
I agree with Ishbel - do P3 by the book...then once you've hit maintenance see how you feel. If you feel like you might have sensitivity to something you were eating in P3 (you should know after 2 weeks), then follow along with the book's recommendations. At that point your glycogen stores will be replenished, you won't be in ketosis anymore, so it will be more like starting the book's program as if you weren't dieting beforehand.
Maintenance is really a "write your own plan" phase - IP has its own guidelines, but I've seen people choose to go Paleo in maintenance, or follow slightly different guidelines that work better for their lifestyle and eating habits.
You've both confirmed what I was pretty much thinking. I'll stick with the rest of P3 according to IP protocol, just to be on the safe side. I'd hate to inadvertently mess something up. Then once I'm in Maintenance I'll play around with things more, depending on what the rest of P3 brings. Thx for your input.
Hi Everyone! I had a wonderful trip to Italy and was able to maintain! I think all the walking helped, but I really didn't go crazy eating (I did eat pasta and gelato, but stuck to small portions. Wine was my biggest indulgence ). I really credit IP and phasing off properly, because I have never been able to eat "normally" in the past. I am happy to be home and I am doing a week of phase 2 just to "reset" after my indulgences.
Evepet- I have read The Carb Sensitivity book and I found it very informative. I agree with all the others that I think phasing off first then following her protocol would be best. I really think for me, resting my pancreas and slowly allowing it to be stimulated by phase 3 had helped me be successful (especially with cravings--those have not really come back, yet...) Her program is really a low carb program also, but gives you a chance to figure out which carbs cause you the most problems. I may end up trying it as well. Good luck!
Hi Everyone! I had a wonderful trip to Italy and was able to maintain! I think all the walking helped, but I really didn't go crazy eating (I did eat pasta and gelato, but stuck to small portions. Wine was my biggest indulgence ). I really credit IP and phasing off properly, because I have never been able to eat "normally" in the past. I am happy to be home and I am doing a week of phase 2 just to "reset" after my indulgences.
Evepet- I have read The Carb Sensitivity book and I found it very informative. I agree with all the others that I think phasing off first then following her protocol would be best. I really think for me, resting my pancreas and slowly allowing it to be stimulated by phase 3 had helped me be successful (especially with cravings--those have not really come back, yet...) Her program is really a low carb program also, but gives you a chance to figure out which carbs cause you the most problems. I may end up trying it as well. Good luck!
Thx Gazelle. I appreciate your input.
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Had my annual with my Dr. early this morning, and she was very happy with all the blood test results, etc. Plus blood pressure was good again this am at 122/80. She congratulated me on the weight loss acheivement, and said that it's been a great step forward in improving and protecting my health. I felt so positive after our meeting that I walked home - a 40 minute walk... almost a power walk today, as it was around -13 degrees Celsius and COLD! But I sure felt invigorated when I got home.
Evepet: I need to find some ricotta tonight to go with my breakfast tomorrow. I made the Banana Oatmeal muffins from the Phase 3 breakfast thread and they were delish. So glad that I made a double batch to cover two breakfasts. This morning I ate them with a ½ cup side of yogurt but I think the ricotta spread on them would work great too.
I’m just finishing reading The Carb Sensitivity Program book and have been trying to think of how to incorporate it. For now, I’ve decided to simply focus on Phase 3 and introducing Phase 4 without the restrictions she imposes. I think that I need to add back in a larger amount of carbs before I will see a true difference in restricting them again. I also read the program differently than what you’ve said. Wk 1 add fruit, Wk 2 remove fruit add some starchy veg, Wk 3 remove wk 2 starchy veg and add legumes, etc. Essentially only getting one type of carb at a time in order to see how that carb in isolation affects you. Maybe I need to go back and re-read that section but this on and off approach was what put me off from trying this for a few more weeks. I am reviewing more on the supplements and other considerations that she recommends.
Congrats on your positive doctor check up.
Mommak8: congrats on the great check-up. It is always exciting to hear good things from a doctor instead of the normal lose more weight. With everyone’s mention of doctor appointments, I’m getting excited about seeing my own in a few weeks.
I don’t always get irritable when I haven’t eaten in 4 hours but I do feel a big drop in energy and tolerance levels.
Gazelle: WTG with having a fun and successful Italian vacation!
I already mentioned this morning’s great muffin breakfast. Yesterday was also a huge success with the Quinoa Pancakes and blueberries. I made the pancakes the night before so I just had to heat them in the morning. I arranged them on my dinner sized plate to reheat and it was an overlapping layer covering the whole plate. HUGE portion. Plus the extra cup of blueberries on top and I used WF Blueberry syrup. This weekend I need to search my freezer for the pumpkin puree I made last summer so I can make the pumpkin pie breakfast.
I had my first WI on P3 last night and as expected, gained a bit. However I found myself making all sorts of excuses to my coach as to why. Excess salt the last few days, added in Metamucil fiber supplement daily for the past week, etc. I need to find my way out of the mindset that I have to have a loss each week to feel like I did okay.
I gained 5 lbs initially in p3, I ended at 116.4 and then got to 121.5. I have been stabilizing and losing again. I am 119.2 today. Sooooo I think p2 and P3 are really important and need yo be done. I think my goal weight is very realistic as well. I am only 5 feet tall. I am nt striving to weigh 95 lbs. I am almost overweight at 120 lbs if you look at weight charts. If i were 5'4' 120 or 115, I could see the concern. But many others on these boards have gotten to much lower weights at my height so I am unsure of the concerns. I also carry allot of muscle, due to bodybuilding for 20 plus yrs
KitKat - it's a tough mindset to break! I spent a lot of time in P3 reminding myself that I needed to change my expectations of the scale going forward - that I'd be looking at a range, not a hard number. So far, so good but it's not easy!
One mentality I'm finding tough to break out of is the SIZE of the meals. I got really used to the 2 cups veg/8oz protein formula in P1, but I'm finding that now in maintenance, with the big breakfast and option to have snacks during the day, I really need to scale back my "big" meals or I get overstuffed at lunch and then spend the rest of the day recovering! My weight hasn't been affected at all, still under my goal weight by a couple of pounds and holding within the same 2lb range - but I want to FEEL good too. At first I was concerned that maybe it was wheat bloat - but yesterday was a totally gluten-free day and I still ran into an issue. Oh well, gotta love maintenance trial-and-error!
One mentality I'm finding tough to break out of is the SIZE of the meals. I got really used to the 2 cups veg/8oz protein formula in P1, but I'm finding that now in maintenance, with the big breakfast and option to have snacks during the day, I really need to scale back my "big" meals or I get overstuffed at lunch and then spend the rest of the day recovering! My weight hasn't been affected at all, still under my goal weight by a couple of pounds and holding within the same 2lb range - but I want to FEEL good too. At first I was concerned that maybe it was wheat bloat - but yesterday was a totally gluten-free day and I still ran into an issue. Oh well, gotta love maintenance trial-and-error!
I have been feeling the exact same way! I am so stuffed after breakfast (last day of phase 3 is tomorrow!) and I feel puffy and bloated all day! I can hardly think of lunch!
Breakfast this week has been:
2/3 cup source Greek yogurt
2 slices weight watchers ww bread
1.5 tbs all natural peanut butter
1 med gala apple
Dip - 1 tsp plain Greek yogurt & 1 tsp PB, dash of cinnamon
(P.s Apple dip = AMAZING!)
It meets all the guidelines of P3, so why am I feeling this way??
mommak8: I have never used nutritional yeasts, so I hope you have figured that one out by now.
I think I am going to have to rethink my same breakfast as ricotta cheese is having a real appeal.
I tried the hemp hearts and chia seeds that people have mentioned. Great (albeit a pricey) addition to breakfast as an alternative to a tablespoon of peanutbutter. The chia seeds really do seem to expand and keep me full.
I have been playing around with the size (calorie-wise) of the meals. I think breakfast really does work best at the high end of the P3 400 to 500 range. It's going from there to getting lunch at the right level and keeping enough calories around for dinner. (I know, it's not supposed to be calories but "portion size"). I usually have one snack, but on workout days I might have a protein bar prior then come home and have the P3 breakfast. It puts my meals at kind of odd times, and, honestly, I suspect that P4 works better to have the breakfast before noon ; )
I distinctly remember being stuffed from the P3 breakfasts and always putting them at (barely) the 400 calorie end of the range or ending up adding the peanutbutter. Lesley, you might want to substitute something else for the WW bread and see if that helps--maybe oatmeal or just a different bread or drop it down to one slice and up the portion of something else to get to your calorie target. I had a little trouble with bread at first. Now I can eat it if I want.
As a random thought, in terms of level of effort, I think it takes the same mental focus to stay at 1200 or 1500 or 1800 calories or to keep fats/carbs separate or to have that P1 day after a Fun Day, etc if your natural tendency is to overeat or prefer the wrong (unhealthy) things. 1800 sounds so much more forgiving than 1200, but it is just as easy to make errors in portion size and food variety if you don't pay attention regardless of your calorie target. That sure seems to be true from the comments here, as we all face similar struggles regardless of our posted height/weight numbers and their related calorie/portion targets.
As for the carb sensitivity program, that sure sounds like the Phase 3.1 thru 3.9 system I want to invent. I always thought P3 threw too many foods at us at once, when it would be the perfect time to figure out which ones you really should think twice about keeping around long term (especially if you have been doing P1 for a really long time and have that food fear motivating you). Not sure if it really needs to be a week before you take away and reintroduce. I bet three days would be enough, but a week is a nice way to frame what it does weightwise. I think you might be able to create P3 breakfasts that follow the principles, with carbs from just fruits some days and just grains on others and even just potatoes/starchy vegetables at breakfast, too. Not sure how the book allows the dairy or the fat, although I believe the dairy is optional in P3.
That said, it's kind of a slippery slope when you randomly start picking and choosing among different diet concepts, which is NOT to say that if you don't do a fun day or have small "mixed" meals that is doing something wrong. Some stuff I have read indicates "the morning" as being the time when we are most insulin sensitive and that breakfast with carbs should be eaten within a certain time after awakening. Other stuff, that the time to eat carbs is within 45 minutes after working out. Yet other stuff, breakfast being the most important meal of the day is a myth (but the weight registry says that the best maintainers are breakfast eaters). It's almost like it is the art of nutrition instead of the science of nutrition.
I have been reading your posts over the last several months and I just wanted to thank you for your tireless dedication to these boards. I always enjoy the advice that you give, and you have such a good, positive way of wording things. I appreciate the patience that you have had with answering the same questions over and over on the other threads. Sometimes I don't post or attempt to answer a question because I am not good at wording things and don't want to be misunderstood. Your posts always seem to say the "perfect" things in such a supportive way. Thanks!
It meets all the guidelines of P3, so why am I feeling this way??
I had to cut back my protein portions to 4-6oz in my 2nd week of phase 3, it was just way too much food over the course of the day for me. I completed Phase 3 and started maintenance a couple of weeks ago, and I still have "overstuffed" days. For me, anyway, it's been more of an issue of downsizing my other two big meals, and not feeling like I HAVE to eat snacks between meals. I feel fine after breakfast now, I just have to pay attention to how my body feels for the rest of the day, and not force food on myself if I'm not really hungry!
Infoplease - I totally agree that nutrition is more like a freeform art than a hard science! There are so many variables within an individual, it's impossible to create a "one size fits all" plan.
Last edited by scorbett1103; 03-22-2013 at 07:14 AM.
I agree with there being so many theories and variables in nutrition that it does become more of an art than a science. It is a good thing that we are all experimenting and being creative!
I am happy it is Friday even if we have hail and snow..still.
Infoplease: great post. I agree with what you said about the mental effort of 1200 calories is the same as at 1800 calories. I have used an online food tracker since I started P1 and found that I can now better predict how many calories I'll fall at each day (usually 900-1000). But moving into P3 and soon P4, I don't know what will make up 1800 calories. I think I will need the same year long focus of tracking to get comfortable there and learn what is reasonable portions for maintenance. I have to remind myself that this will take time just like P1 took time. Only there isn't the fun reward of weight loss involved, just trying to stay the same.
The principle of staying a week on one food group is to try different items within the group and give your body time to adjust in terms of weight changes, water retention, etc. Some of the measurements you need to track to determine if you are tolerant may show up right away but others may be a build up effect.
I have been concerned with going overboard on picking too many different diets concepts to follow however I have reasoned for myself that I'll follow IP maintenance guidelines and then what food options I choose within those meals can be Paleo or trying the Carb Sensitivity program, etc. to see what food groups will be best for long term. Funny at work I am involved in insurance actuary analysis and I always say, "as much as they try, insurance pricing isn't an exact science, there is an art to it as well." Yes the same holds true with nutrition.
