OMG superherothin! Those are all my favorite foods, too. You must have built up quite a restraint muscle. Seriously. I would have to breathe through my mouth 24/7.
A long time ago, I followed the Jenny Craig diet, back when they offered classes with their program. I remember hearing that people without weight issues enjoy the aroma while walking past a donut shop, while those with weight issues get a whiff and in they go to buy the donut. That's me; come to think of it, I can't tolerate the smell of my chicken breast filet cooking without wanting to scarf it, no matter what time of day or whether I've just eaten, even if I don't season it.
Once in a while seeing something on TV can do that to me, but it's more often getting the aroma. Maybe you are more immune to smell due to having built up restraint, while you might be more vulnerable to visual cues. That means watching a movie with your eyes closed I guess, lol.
One of my fave books, The End of Overeating, has some enlightening discussion on how cues in the environment stimulate us.
I am affected by smells, even when I'm not hungry. Sometimes it isn't a problem and is a pleasant thing to smell nice foods (I'm living with someone who is now baking alot, and when it is cold out the baking gives the house a cozy feel), but sometimes a smell makes me want to randomly eat and that is certainly much less pleasant.
Rabidstoat: 13 days binge-free is so major, congratulations! That is hard work right there, give yourself lots and lots and lots of credit!
I don't know why that movie set off my cravings--some days I can ignore a whole cake in my fridge without a problem, and other days the mere concept of chocolate makes me want to quit altogether
This is so much me. I don't understand what sets off cravings. Right now, I'm not having any cravings for sweets. Other days, I could practically kill for them! I wish I understood why.
Last edited by rabidstoat; 01-11-2015 at 12:02 PM.
This is so much me. I don't understand what sets off cravings. Right now, I'm not having any cravings for sweets. Other days, I could practically kill for them! I wish I understood why.
That's million dollar question rabidstoat!
From what I've read in books and here on 3FC, it seems that restricting things sets up cravings. Mine fall into 2 broad types:1) the ones that begin ONLY if I eat trigger foods. 2) the ones that intrude into my mind after I have been dieting for a while.
Either way, it's frustrating because I feel better when avoiding those foods that I crave. But for the cravings, I don't miss them. I'm working to find a way that's not too restrictive and that allows treats that I enjoy, just not the ones I enjoy too much.
I heard part of a radio interview today, with an evolutionary biologist, talking about 'flavor' and how it's related to sensing the environment to hunt for food, even among worms. He said the sense of sweetness is very old, evolutionarily speaking, and very hard wired into our behavior, some people more than others.
Whenever the hardwiring-to-crave-sweets discussion pops up, it reminds me to tread carefully...not expect myself to erase my sweets cravings or fight them head on every time. I'm fortunate not to have them too often, so my strategy is to ride the wave and fix the damage afterwards, with no regret or self-recrimination. As long as my clothes fit, lol.
Then there's the theory that there are bacteria in our guts that need sugar to survive. Somehow they send chemical messengers to our brains that cause cravings & get us to eat the sugar that they need to survive. This idea is gaining traction in mainstream science. I haven't read much but basically it says that there are two broad types of gut bacteria. Obese folks have predominantly one while non-obese predominate with the other. That means taking probiotics might be helpful in weight loss if they change the balance of bacteria to the "thin" type.
I'm hedging my bets and eating Bubbie's pickles and sauerkraut, which are pro-biotic (not steeped in vinegar and not high-heat pasteurized like most products). Will report back on whether I notice any change with cravings---probably takes a few months.
The problem with not restricting things because it sets up cravings, is that sometimes indulging just a little can lead to eating everything in the house (and then hitting up the grocery store for more!).
I did have some sweets this weekend. I had a dessert item, the only one in two weeks. It was just yesterday but so far as I can tell hasn't set off massive cravings, but we'll see. I even had a relatively easy time passing on some shared desserts at a dinner out with friends over the weekend. They didn't interest enough to really want them -- though that was this past weekend. We go every weekend, and often get a few desserts for the table, so who knows what next weekend will bring.
The problem with not restricting things because it sets up cravings, is that sometimes indulging just a little can lead to eating everything in the house (and then hitting up the grocery store for more!).
Same here--it's a dilemma for sure. It's as if eating it makes me want more instead of feeling satisfied. The End of Overeating discusses this, without offering a definitive because it isn't clear yet what if any is the solution. Yet, I found it helpful to know there might be an underlying physiological cause. I view in the same way as I do my flat feet--it's not a flaw but a variation that I need to accept & figure out how to manage. If only there were "good shoes" for eating!
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I did have some sweets this weekend. I had a dessert item, the only one in two weeks. It was just yesterday but so far as I can tell hasn't set off massive cravings, but we'll see. I even had a relatively easy time passing on some shared desserts at a dinner out with friends over the weekend. They didn't interest enough to really want them -- though that was this past weekend. We go every weekend, and often get a few desserts for the table, so who knows what next weekend will bring.
I think this is fantastic! It's just not possible to predict what's around the corner, each week....Could you think of some back up strategies to help in case the shared desserts become more difficult? Easier said than done, I know! I've noticed that it's easier to manage if I don't tell myself "this will be the LAST indulgence, so better pack it in. Also I try to steer a middle way of having something that's a treat but won't activate that more more morecraving. An example, for me, is I can enjoy hot chocolate & then even though I might kinda think about more sweets, it's easy to get past it. I like it but not TOO much.
It all depends on what you mean by restriction. For myself, reasonable restriction doesn't lead to binging or cravings (it is rather a way of managing and coping with them) -- but over-restriction absolutely does.
For me, reasonable restriction means staying away from trigger foods. It took me some time to know what my real trigger foods were, and then to discover what the BIG KAHUNA trigger foods were once I got through a period of stability without any trigger foods at all. The longer I stay away from my BK trigger foods, the less I deal with serious cravings. Mild cravings that are triggered by smells, or by seeing something yummy, are passing and seem pretty normal and aren't a real problem to deal with. I'd say they are right in line with what normal people think and feel when they smell something yummy or see someone eating something that looks delish.
Over-restriction is lowering my calories too far, forcing myself to deal with chronic hunger over too long a period of time. Over-restriction is definitely a trigger for binging and causes massive cravings for pretty much everything. Because over-restriction is pretty much self-inflicted starving.
I was a champion at the "binge followed by make-up-for-binging-by-skipping-meals-which-is-really-starving-myself-plus-doing-a-bunch-of-super-intense-brutal-cardio followed by OOPS! yet another binge" cycle. And long-term, that aproach got me nowhere good.
So the 2 things, restriction versus over-restriction, are worlds apart for me.
Very looooong side-note: many people's idea of a "diet" looks an awful lot like over-restriction (i.e., starving) to me. So when people say "diets fail" and "diets lead to binging" I really think what happens is more like "poorly implemented diets fail" "and "starving oneself with ridiculous over-restriction leads to binging". I can get behind both those statements.
"Diet" has become a dirty word, to be replaced with "lifestyle change" and "health journey". But that is all semantics. They all mean the same thing, and they can all be done well, and they can be done poorly.
"Poorly implemented lifestyle changes will fail" and "Health journeys that involve starving oneself with ridiculous over-restriction can lead to binging". Truth.
I see many people on this site who think they can gut out a super low calorie, very food-restricted diet in an effort to lose weight quickly. It is all very well-intentioned -- they just want to see some darn results, and then they will think about being more moderate later, when they can fit into their darn pants! They think if they just bring enough will power to bear they can make it through that up-front HECK period (we can't say h-e-l-l on this site). I've done that myself, and it is very, very hard.
Some will make it through the HECK period and become more moderate in their long-term approach, but many, many will not. Some will make it through the HECK period, and will lose weight, but will learn very little about living with these problems long-term and will be doomed to repeat this weight gain and weight loss cycle. I am raising my hand here -- I get an A for not learning for a very long time.
But I believe the number one reason that any particular "diet" fails is that it is implemented so brutally strict right out of the gate that every part of the person's being rebels fairly quickly. This Shock And Awe approach can be particularly brutal for bingers, and sets up a vicious cycle that most of us are familiar with.
There are other reasons (reasons 2, 3, and 4-10) that "diets/lifestyle changes/health journeys" fail over time -- and I have experience with those failures as well, but I'll save my opinions on those for another post.
I've recommended the following before on this site (particularly to bingers), so for any new person lurking in this thread, I'll say it again:
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Here's an option: instead of dropping your calories to your target "diet/lifestyle change/healthjourney" range all at once, you edge your way down slowly.
So say that for the last few months you've been "off plan" eating (or the last few years, for that matter, because for me it was often YEARS of off-plan, wild-wild-West-style gorging) and consuming about 4000 calories a day (or whatever your calorie estimate is - I'm just picking a number. I know *I* could easily sock away more than 4000 calories a day when I was thrill eating and just generally off plan).
This week make a plan for about 300 calories less per day -- so 3,700 calories per day. Try to make the food you're eating healthy choices. I mean, if you know for a fact you can't stop eating Fritos, don't buy any more Fritos (I say this from personal experience). But buy lots of nice protein and fats and carbs, but from whatever list you define as "healthy-ish".
Then for the 2 weeks after that, drop your daily calories by 200 to 300 -- so eat 3,400 - 3,500 calories per day of mostly healthy-ish foods. Do your best with your choices.
And so on, and so on, verrrrrrry slowly lowering your calories and cleaning up your foods list, until you are in a slight calorie deficit. And see how that works for you.
But, Mrs. Snark, I hear you complain, it is going to take me forever to even GET in a calorie deficit!
Yes, it might take a couple of months to get there. But you might have a better shot at GETTING there and STAYING there with less pain of withdrawal and less mental/emotional struggle and better retention of your new healthy foods list and habits. How many months have gone by without you being able to even get into the groove? Be honest, how many months and years have you been struggling by starting and abandoning some brutal 800 to 1,000 calorie a day health journey lifestyle diet?
If at the end of 6 months you were then eating a 'healthy diet' (however you define it), had virtually stopped binging, and were now in a slight calorie deficit and therefore were losing weight --- and were able to retain this new lifestyle forever, going forward on your lovely health journey (until maintenance caused you to tweak your calorie level), would you consider it a successful strategy?
Think long-term success. Some people's bodies really need a gradual lowering of calories at first -- otherwise the sheer hunger at the start is so overwhelming that they can't get on plan and STAY there. I think this is why so many "diets" are started and abandoned within a couple of days/weeks. The target calorie range chosen is such a drastic change from what the person has been eating (and at the same time, the food restriction list is so major) that of course they are miserable and their body (and mind and soul and little baby toe) is suffering.
Try gentle change. Gentle permanent change For The Win!
And that's all I have to say about that.
Whew.
Last edited by Mrs Snark; 01-12-2015 at 03:57 PM.
Reason: Fixed typo, added more words because that's how I do.
Thank-you for that very articulate post Mrs. Snark! Think I'll be printing that to have it handy.
I'm back to work & commitment juggling tomorrow after a stretch of inactivity due to a leg injury. Yayyy! I will miss actively participating as much as I would like. Sending everyone, lurkers too, best of the best wishes! I'm looking forward to reading how you're doing.
<<<hugs>>> Mars. Thanks for saying that because I received an email through my blog that said my post sounded more than a wee bit peevish and preachy.
Gaaaaaaaaaah, not my intention at all. I never want to be Mrs Peevy Preachy Pants.
I do NOT have all the answers.
I don't believe that there is only ONE right path to living with binging, or to managing weight, or to handling difficult men, or to existing peaceably in a red state, or to having a conversation with someone who dislikes Firefly.
I believe there are many, many paths. I pull what I need from lots of different sources: a bunch of sugar avoidance, a heaping spoonful of whole foods, a tad of intuitive eating, a whopping boatload of ethical veganism, a smidge of calorie awareness, a touch of Overeaters Anon, a cuddle with occasional hedonism, an embracement of simplicity, a willingness to make up words like "embracement".
I only ever share my own experiences and observations in hopes that they will help someone else with similar quirks as me. And I recognize I'm a weirdo and that what works for me, and the way I see things, may be a bit fringe. But I think there has to be at least a couple people out there like me, I can't be the only weirdo.
I support anything (legal-ish and safe) that works for someone, and I want everyone to reach peace and bliss and happiness and near-constant orgasm.
So if I came off as a big fat know-it-all with an agenda, my deepest apologies. I'm not that way at all (I hope).
P.S. I'm sorry, but disliking Firefly is just wrong. There. I said it.
I'll be bookmarking your 2nd post, Mrs. Snark! If this is what being a weirdo is, I'm in! To me, it's sound, rational, informed by experience & success, and without any sort of agenda but to put something out there that might ease someone else's way.
"I received an email through my blog that said my post sounded more than a wee bit peevish and preachy. "
Written communication masks the tone of a post, leaving it open for projection or simple misunderstanding, against the backdrop of negativity that obese people absorb from our popular culture. And some people's past experience make it easier to perceive impassioned expression as something else. I guess everyone receives through their personal filter, and eating/body image issues can make it difficult at best for positive messages to get through a wall of self-criticism. Maybe something like that was going on?
It would be a loss to the 3FC community if you felt the slightest inhibition in writing your mind. So many good ideas....keep 'em coming please!
OMG I would die living over those three restaurants
I have been doing well on my detox. Minimal cravings. I had one larabar ALT protein bar to deal with a craving and a bunch of protein powder with banana and peanut butter. Protein powder shouldn't be on the detox but it's done the trick. As I move into the second half I'm going to try to be good and cut out the little cheats such as too much fruit, dried fruit and protein powders. Fruit is okay but too much of it is acidic and I can really tell it is putting my body chemistry out of whack. There is something to be said for pH. Veggies will be my best friend for the next week and a half.
Blargh. So snacky today. I have some baked cheese puffs downstairs I am trying to avoid remembering. It seemed like I was in control when I bought them at the store! I probably will be tomorrow, I think tonight I'm just overly tired, I had to wake up early this morning to get to work an extra hour early. Think I'll go take a soak in the tub and read for a bit.
Oh, and plus I had a nice salad (fancy one, too, since today was grocery day!) planned for tonight, but it was cold and rainy and I went to Chick-Fil-A instead. Could be a lot worse, their grilled chicken sandwich isn't bad, and they forgot the honey barbecue sauce so I didn't have that. Did have fries. I suppose it's better than the old days when it'd be a cheeseburger (and maybe a double) and fries (and definitely a large instead of medium) and a sweet tea instead of the diet lemonade that Chick-Fil-A has. Oh well. Baby steps...
Update: Against all odds, I have not died from lack of cheese puffs. Bath was good, much reading was done.
Last edited by rabidstoat; 01-13-2015 at 09:14 PM.
Reason: Update
Made it through another week with all that candy in the office. Cookies joined at the end of the week. My friend, who is dieting, tried to get me to share a Skinny Cow chocolate snack with her. Nope! And skipped the dessert this week at Friday night dinner. I need to learn how to bottle up this willpower, because it deserts me after about three weeks, and I'm coming up on that.
Stoat: 3 weeks is just a number, you can push through it. It isn't will power, it is commitment. You got it. You can do it. Hold firmly to the idea that if you can keep going, it will get easier over time. At least that has been my experience, so I fervently hope the same thing for you!
Grilled romaine lettuce heads tonight for me, with balsamic, and red onions. I love those.
It's just not possible to predict what's around the corner, each week....Could you think of some back up strategies to help in case the shared desserts become more difficult? Easier said than done, I know! I've noticed that it's easier to manage if I don't tell myself "this will be the LAST indulgence, so better pack it in. Also I try to steer a middle way of having something that's a treat but won't activate that more more morecraving. An example, for me, is I can enjoy hot chocolate & then even though I might kinda think about more sweets, it's easy to get past it. I like it but not TOO much.
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