Location: Kelseyville (Lake County, Northern California)
Posts: 150
S/C/G: 164/155/145
Height: 5'6"
Locke
Thanks for your concern Locke!
Not angry at all. Quite the contrary. Sometimes its all in one's own interpretation. Just passionate about my own beliefs & being respectful of others. Thats the problem with texting & emails is that we cannot hear a persons tone or see facial expressions, etc.
Fortunately I have had lots of PM's agreeing with & supporting what I posted.
This will be my last post on this thread for obvious reasons. Just wanted to reply to you.
Good for you AshliRose, it's nice to be agreed with, glad you've found the support you seek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkhippie
Agree with this! Its hard to understand if the diet mentality doesn't have a serious hold on you and or you are not aware the diet mentality has a serious hold on you but this is so true. This is the only place I can come for non diet talk/ideas, a harsh dose of much needed reality sometimes and help working through my diet issues.
It is really hard to nagivate friends and family especially, online forums don't trigger me much thankfully because I can sort of understand where other dieters come from. The only thing that really sets me off is talking about addiction to food, I don't want any part of it. But in real life it's difficult when disordered eating surrounds you. I'm pretty lucky that most of my family are naturally-born IEers and there is no inflammatory talk about foods and addictions and other dysfunctional eating issues within our home. But other women in my life, mostly friends, it's difficult to meet anyone for a social reason because conversations always seem to end up on dieting and exercise. Even if the conversation doesn't center on weight there are little interjections of guilt everywhere. "I really should've ordered the dressing on the side but I couldn't help myself" or "mmmm, that looks good I wish I could eat that" or "omg I ate way too much, my pants are going to be tight tomorrow." Those are the conversations I find most triggering, when women get a kick out of putting themselves down and make it a point to judge every morsel of food they ate.
It is really hard to nagivate friends and family especially, online forums don't trigger me much thankfully because I can sort of understand where other dieters come from. The only thing that really sets me off is talking about addiction to food, I don't want any part of it. But in real life it's difficult when disordered eating surrounds you. I'm pretty lucky that most of my family are naturally-born IEers and there is no inflammatory talk about foods and addictions and other dysfunctional eating issues within our home. But other women in my life, mostly friends, it's difficult to meet anyone for a social reason because conversations always seem to end up on dieting and exercise. Even if the conversation doesn't center on weight there are little interjections of guilt everywhere. "I really should've ordered the dressing on the side but I couldn't help myself" or "mmmm, that looks good I wish I could eat that" or "omg I ate way too much, my pants are going to be tight tomorrow." Those are the conversations I find most triggering, when women get a kick out of putting themselves down and make it a point to judge every morsel of food they ate.
I know! We really are surrounded. Its totally normal and acceptable in our culture to talk this way. In fact if you DON'T put yourself down some people are offended. At least in my experience.
I just had to come and thank you and others for the book recommendation of Eating in the Light of the Moon. You know how sometimes its the right time to read certain books and and the message resonates in every cell of your body and other times its hard to follow or just doesn't' strike a chord and you have no interest? This was the right time to read that book. Wow. I am reading it and I feel like Im being smacked by a 2x 4 constantly as I read it. ( in a good way. ) I am still in the middle of it, reading about singing your truth. That struck such a chord for me. I definitely have not been singing my truth in order to try to keep the peace and to make everyone happy. I also automatically push emotions away if I deem them not ok or not appropriate.
For example, this morning I was feeling really irritated with my 12 year old daughter for no real reason. As soon as I felt that irritation, I automatically pushed it away because A. Im trying to be a good and loving mom, I don't want to be irritated with my child. and B. I couldn't think of a logical reason to be irritated so therefore that emotion didn't exist. But because I am reading that book and trying to be more aware I realized what I was doing and I acknowledged my irritation. I felt my irritation. And then it went away.
People think I am such a patient person but its not true really. I just am queen at suppressing and ignoring any negative emotion and presenting a calm, peaceful demeanor to the outside world. I think since I have been dealing with my feelings without food as much, suddenly there are a lot more feelings to be dealt with and I have been feeling sad and depressed. I realized last night that a big part of that is that I have not been "singing my truth".
Last night I started telling my husband what I really thought about some things and this morning I let him know that he had interrupted me and that I was upset about it. baby steps but already I have been feeling better than I have in a long time. Today I am focusing not on food, but on what is going on with me and what I need to feel better.
Anyway, lots of introspection for those who want to read it. Thank you again. I am really getting a lot out of that book so far.
Last edited by Pinkhippie; 05-02-2015 at 10:42 AM.
This has stuck with me for the past few days. It's so true. I got used to eating according to my taste and appetite. It's really hard to put the reins back in someone else's hands. I never feel better than I do when I eat intuitively.
It's hard to trust anyone but myself. Someone else knows more about what my body needs than I do? Learning to listen to myself has been the greatest lessons I've learned in IE and it has resonated to all parts of my life. This is the first time in my life I'm putting all my trust in myself in my eating, my career, as a mother etc.
I've been trying to connect to what I call the "wise mother" within me. It's the quiet but firm and loving voice inside me that embodies my real values and strength. Finding her and connecting to her is so important to my journey. Her voice gets lost amidst the fear, hatred, despair, and ED thoughts. I know I can trust that voice if only I can remember to listen for it.
I've been trying to connect to what I call the "wise mother" within me. It's the quiet but firm and loving voice inside me that embodies my real values and strength. Finding her and connecting to her is so important to my journey. Her voice gets lost amidst the fear, hatred, despair, and ED thoughts. I know I can trust that voice if only I can remember to listen for it.
I don't know if it's about remembering to listen to that voice, but finding a way to hear it over the noise of the other voices. It takes practice, I'm still learning.
3fc is a tricky place to be. There is so much distrust. How many posts a day do you real where people say things like "I don't trust myself to eat only a little" and "once I open the floodgates..." The dieting world generates a lot of distrust around food and ourselves. Seriously, how can an industry that poses as helpful cause so much damage?
Owl, I am still laughing at your clean food joke. Thank you!!
Locke (((big hugs)))
Palestrina, thank you so much for keeping this thread on track.
The diet mentality is such a pervasive trigger for me that I was afraid to come back to this thread after Ashli's posts. I fully respect "different strokes for different folks", but having worked for many months on forgetting some of the worst of "food is an addiction"-based diet, those posts triggered me hard.
I am still recovering. That isn't Ashli's fault, it is mine, but this thread is a safe place for me and when it turns to diets, I struggle.
I don't want to sound extreme, but I almost think I have a mild form of PTSD from all the years of being berated by myself and others in the diet mentality.
I am now back to having no idea what I want to eat. I made a brave choice this weekend and for the first time, stocked my house with ALL types of food. I am looking forward to seeing what I choose.
I am starting to notice that I would rather eat at home than in a restaurant. I am not sure I can recall feeling like that before.
My progress isn't a straight line, but there IS progress. And that is all that matters.
Thank you to all the IE folks on this thread. I would be lost without you.
Last edited by beginme; 05-04-2015 at 01:38 PM.
Reason: typo
Hi beginme, thanks for bravely coming back. Once in a while we will have visitors that come to IE and I know it's hard for us all to be welcoming and at the same time protective of the thread. After a few telling posts I realize that there are many who visit to read but not to post. I think people are genuinely respectful of the IEers but for those who don't understand it or have never heard of it can be very put off by it which is what I think happened in this case. Hopefully we've given this poster enough info to check out the parts of the forum that will support her journey.
IEers are not combative types, and I think despite misconception of my posts I think I am very polite in refocusing the thread towards IE concepts. After all it does nobody here any good to talk about addiction when there are so many threads devoted to that in other parts of the forum.
Have fun with the food beginme! My journey is not linear either but what really helps me is to reinforce the reasons I follow IE. When I feel an uphill battle it helps to make my primary focus to enjoy every eating experience I have during the day. If I'm enjoying my food experiences rather than judging them then I'm feeling good.
Intuitive Eating is a concept with a history. I think people get confused by the very simple title of the thread. Intuitive Eating is more than just eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full. It's a philosophy and a methodology. It combines mindful eating principles with skepticism about traditional obesity treatment options. It's the "eat whatever you're hungry for" that really scares the bejeezus out of people. We have been taught time and time again that we're food failures. That's why we're fat. "Food controls me" "I'm a food addict" "I can't help myself around certain foods." etc. The moral blaming is always put on the person and not our screwed up beliefs about food.
Other countries each rich food and sugary desserts and don't have the same problem. The obesity epidemic really is a uniquely American problem, although it's spreading across the globe as American food, diet, and fitness ways spread. I thought I would never be able to have really delicious food in my house and not eat it all like crazy. I'm honestly still baffled by my ability to have a slice of pizza or a piece of cake and not binge. It's still such a radical change.
Intuitive Eating is a concept with a history. I think people get confused by the very simple title of the thread. Intuitive Eating is more than just eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full. It's a philosophy and a methodology. It combines mindful eating principles with skepticism about traditional obesity treatment options. It's the "eat whatever you're hungry for" that really scares the bejeezus out of people. We have been taught time and time again that we're food failures. That's why we're fat. "Food controls me" "I'm a food addict" "I can't help myself around certain foods." etc. The moral blaming is always put on the person and not our screwed up beliefs about food.
Other countries each rich food and sugary desserts and don't have the same problem. The obesity epidemic really is a uniquely American problem, although it's spreading across the globe as American food, diet, and fitness ways spread. I thought I would never be able to have really delicious food in my house and not eat it all like crazy. I'm honestly still baffled by my ability to have a slice of pizza or a piece of cake and not binge. It's still such a radical change.
Wow, IE is brand new to me, but I like what I am seeing. And I agree with you about obesity, it is so sad, especially seeing young kids that are obese. They don;t even know any different. With IE can you use supplements to help you lose weight and get on track?
Hello again, everyone, and thank you for the welcome! I hadn't realised I'd got ranty in my earlier post, but thank you for putting up with it.
I'm a bit further into Intuitive Eating, and have hit a snag. You know how they categorise eating personalities into Careful Eater, Professional Dieter, and Unconscious Eater? I am very much an Unconscious Eater, and that's what I need to work on. My abusive mother, on the other hand, was a Careful Eater with a dash of Professional Dieter. I ended up avoiding dieting until my thirties because of her, being very sensible about it (I think I was an Intuitive Eater for most of my life, until disability made things trickier), and I am absolutely fine with dieting. The book is currently talking about nothing but how awful dieting is, the restriction/binge pattern, applying an imaginary moral system to food and so forth. It doesn't fit me, I don't happen to do those behaviours, but it describes my mother to the point where I'm finding it's going beyond irritating to actually triggering. Could someone tell me where I can skip to in order to learn more about handling the Unconscious Eater problems?
I've been on tramadol almost every day for a few weeks now, and it really does kill my hunger. It could be worse, being on meds that make you extra hungry is far harder to deal with. But I am sometimes giving up halfway through dinner due to feeling full, and I'm not sure whether or not I should push on. Last night I had to grab a slice of toast an hour before supper for medical reasons, so when I felt I'd had enough halfway through supper, I figured that I'd probably had enough food for the day and left it. I suppose the calorie counting is useful there as a way of making sure I don't dip too low, but I don't want to be calorie counting long-term, so I need to find a way to work with this. Going by what I ate earlier can be tricky, since I don't really remember. I'm wondering whether just keeping to a strict routine will be the best thing for me, so that I have something to guide me? Small breakfast, medium lunch, bigger supper, minimal snacking? I have definitely found that eating on a schedule settles my hunger signals nicely. Bodies follow routines, and mine reliably gets too hungry if I wait more than a certain number of hours, or does other unwanted things if I eat a big meal too early. Plus it's important to have a good eating routine if you have trouble with your sleep pattern. My partner's probably going to be in another play soon, which means eating supper earlier on rehearsal nights, but I think I'll be OK with it. I could always eat half the meal, put the rest in the fridge, and finish it later.
One of my support workers is diabetic, by the way, so we've been having interesting conversations about all of this. She's losing weight, but not through dieting. She's doing about an hour a day with her Wii, and is building muscle very nicely and feeling great about herself. Her need for insulin has dropped, though it was wobbly to begin with. She doesn't seem to have the (bad) diet mentality going on, thankfully. She too has to eat on a schedule and keep an eye on the content of what she eats.
Another thing I'm thinking about is exhaustion eating, which can be a big problem for me. Does anyone else get this? I think it's like waiting until you're famished: you probably do need a little extra food to deal with the exhaustion, but by this point, you are starving hungry and eat more than you need.
I'm doing a lot better with avoiding emotional eating, huzzah! I do sometimes have a small piece of chocolate due to mouth hunger or wanting something cheering, but it's just a tiny bit (dark chocolate is satisfying in little amounts), I really savour it, and it doesn't seem to affect my blood sugar or hunger later in the day or anything.
I'm also doing better with stopping to consider my satiety, though as mentioned above the tramadol is interfering there. Still, it's a good habit to get into. I'm messing around with various things for pain control: stretches, hot baths (I have a seriously fabulous new bath with an airspa and coloured lights and so forth, AND I managed not to overeat when the plumbers were here!), ice packs, and I'm trying to find a medical acupuncturist who does home visits. So hopefully this spell on painkillers will end soon.
I'm thinking about what I do when I eat. Often I'm watching TV when I eat, or reading on the computer tablet. This goes for both eating alone and eating with my partner. I don't want it to turn into mindless eating, but it can also be quite nice. How do other people find this?
If you want to lose weight and what you are doing is making you lose weight then keep doing it. IE is for people who are tired of yo-yo dieting and who want to have a permanent, healthy relationship with food.
@Esofia
It can be helpful to have some structure when you start. Some IE books advocate completely diving in and trying to pay attention to your hunger/fullness cues. My eating disorder program has people see a dietitian and start eating balanced, small meals every 3-4 hours at first so that their system gets used to taking in appropriate amounts of food for three meals and two-three snacks a day. Eventually your body starts to want food at those times. So it's possible to start with more of a schedule at first before you fully transition. Since you have some medical issues that are preventing your signals from getting to you appropriately then this may be the best approach.
Locke, how are you doing, hon? I know you had a rough time recently with diving into an over-enthusiastic calorie restriction, it sounded really stressful. I hope you're feeling more at peace with yourself now.
Does the IE book ever get to the Unconscious Eaters? I'm keeping going, and it's still focusing on nothing but people who have gained weight as a result of having a bad time dieting. One thing I'm wondering about is why it tells you to follow your hunger signals rather than eat on a schedule, when it also says that eating chaotically is bad (and for me, eating chaotically has led to no end of problems). I get that eating on a schedule works better for some people than others, and that chaotic eating is not necessarily the same as waiting until you're hungry, but I'm struggling to understand why they think that scheduled mealtimes are absolutely wrong for everyone. How does everyone else find this affects them? What about if you have to eat on a schedule due to your job and/or family? I'm also finding the book has a bit of a tendency to hammer you with its DIETING IS EVIL message, which I'm finding stressful. If I wanted to be bossed around, I'd be following a conventional diet plan!
Also does it ever cover people with chronic illnesses, and how to adapt IE to our needs in those cases? Even if it doesn't, there are still oodles of good ideas in IE, and I'm finding this thread to be great, so is there anyone else on this thread who has a chronic illness? If so, how do you find it works with the principles of IE?
Today I have the challenge of eating when I accidentally put on two anti-inflammatory patches last night and my stomach lining is having a hissyfit. This sort of thing means very bland food, smaller meals, and trying not to feel sulky about it. Thankfully my support worker got in some tofu for me, as I find I do need the fat and protein, as opposed to just having rice and boiled carrots, so that helps with satiety. I also woke up starving and terribly groggy from a nap, but I am pleased to say that I gave it a bit of time to see how my hunger level settled, then got myself a sensibly-sized snack. I've a feeling I have a slight tendency to panic and overeat when I wake up starving from naps. When you're exhausted, cold and hungry, it is so easy to think that what you need to do is eat until you have your energy back.
Locke
