Welcome back to IE! If you were waiting until a growling stomach and a headache then you were waiting way too long to eat. You were famished. You were depriving yourself of nourishment both physical and mental and it's no wonder you gave up on this. That was not IE, may I ask what source instructed you to eat in such a way?
IE is a very individual process for each person but most often it begins with getting rid of the diet mentality and giving yourself permission to eat any food you want and from there you begin to observe yourself and how food makes you feel.
Putting your fork down between bites alludes to mindful eating but the way you describe it it sounds more like a procedure, one you probably came to resent right? You can eat mindfully without chewing 30 times and putting your fork down, it's about being present with your food and enjoying every bite and be aware of it.
Palestrina, Thank you for the quick response! I thought maybe I was waiting way to long to eat. I guess I need to figure out what moderate hunger feels like so I don't wait too long. That is what I have been struggling with. When I had tried IE, I had read several articles online and also the Weigh Down Workshop book. It has been soo long ago, I don't remember if I was trying to follow the WDW book or something else I had read.
Over the past few days, I have been trying to practice new thoughts around food and not judging them as good or bad. It is tough!! I know there are foods that make me feel awful yet, I still can't put them down. Common sense would tell me to only eat the foods that energize me, but I find myself picking up the sugary food. The stuff that makes me feel horrible.
Putting the fork down between bites did feel like a procedure. I kept wondering if I was doing it "right" or "wrong". More pressure around food that I did not need.
How do you know when you are full without being stuffed? I don't know when to stop and depending on what I ear, I may not want to stop. Especially if it is a high carb meal or junk food. It is really hard for me to walk away from the table.
I think I will get a few of the IE books that have been mentioned on this thread.
Palestrina, Thank you for the quick response! I thought maybe I was waiting way to long to eat. I guess I need to figure out what moderate hunger feels like so I don't wait too long. That is what I have been struggling with. When I had tried IE, I had read several articles online and also the Weigh Down Workshop book. It has been soo long ago, I don't remember if I was trying to follow the WDW book or something else I had read.
Over the past few days, I have been trying to practice new thoughts around food and not judging them as good or bad. It is tough!! I know there are foods that make me feel awful yet, I still can't put them down. Common sense would tell me to only eat the foods that energize me, but I find myself picking up the sugary food. The stuff that makes me feel horrible.
Putting the fork down between bites did feel like a procedure. I kept wondering if I was doing it "right" or "wrong". More pressure around food that I did not need.
How do you know when you are full without being stuffed? I don't know when to stop and depending on what I ear, I may not want to stop. Especially if it is a high carb meal or junk food. It is really hard for me to walk away from the table.
I think I will get a few of the IE books that have been mentioned on this thread.
When I first began IE I truly did not know what true physical hunger felt like. I began in much the same way you did, waiting until my stomach was growling, headaches, moodiness etc to eat. I did this intentionally so that I could allow my body to truly FEEL physical hunger and identify it. I only did this for a week or 10 days, hard to do for longer. Then I started feeling like I could identify hunger sooner and I started using the 10 point scale to identify hunger (that's in the Intuitive Eating book by Tribole). It takes time to get in touch with real hunger and can often be a long process.
Mindful eating is different for people too. It comes easier to me than to some others on this forum. It's important not to judge yourself for doing it right or wrong, but rather focusing on the meal being a pleasant experience and trying to experience the most pleasure you can from the food. I like to sit down at a table (I avoid my couch which was the location of numerous binges in my past) undistracted - no tv, no phone, no computer, no conversation. For your first several times choose a meal that you can truly do this, don't try to do this at a family dinner or in the middle of a busy work office. Start off by looking at the food and noting the different colors and smells. Take a moment to think about what your first bite will be - will it be the potatoes? or the chicken? or the carrots? Try to imagine the texture of each and decide which one would make the best first bite. When you put the food in your mouth think about the temperature, the flavor, the texture, how quickly it dissolves or how crunchy it is. Close your eyes and note how that changes the experience. You may notice uncomfortable like you don't want to be there, like you need some sort of distraction. Allow your mind to drift back to the food. You may notice that a food you thought you liked might not taste as good as you thought it did once you give it your full attention, allow yourself to make the decision not to eat it if necessary. Notice how you move from hungry to sated to full throughout the course of the meal. At some point of the meal put your fork down and walk away - check your email, put dishes away, wash your hands, transfer the clothes from the washer to the dryer. Anything to break the mindful trance of the meal. Then go back to the table and sit down and rethink "am I still hungry?" and proceed from there.
Mindful eating seems theatrical when you first start doing it. It's a foreign to those of us who eat mindlessly and binge at the first sight of an uncomfortable emotion. But it's a very important skill to getting in touch with how our body receives food and it becomes a very pleasant experience once you get used to it. It also becomes an act of self love and nourishment which goes a long way in replacing the emotional component of binging in the long wrong. Eating slowly like this is better for digestion and allows your stomach to catch up to your mind, which is a bit slow to alert you when you are full.
I think the hunger scale will be very useful to you.
Okay, thanks. As you know I AM new to this forum and just asked yesterday for some websites or books about IE. In fact, you recommended "Geneen Roth". So for now I will not post here until I read all about "Intuitive Eating" to see if that is something I want to pursue.
I guess it's a little confusing to me because I don't feel I need to "make peace" with all foods because I am not angry at food. I believe I am a compulsive eater and have addictions to foods. I believe there is a deep psychological or emotional issue there, but I could be wrong! There are some "foods" I personally don't consider "food". Just because it's labeled as that and sold as food, doesn't mean it will nourish me ie, chemical, additives, etc. I will surely check out the references you and Locke recommended to see if to see if this thread is a fit for me.
Thanks!
As you research more about IE you'll find out that IE does not support any theories of addiction to food. I used to believe that I was addicted to food too which kept me pretty angry all the time and in constant victim mode when I fell prey to the evils of carbs and sugar. Based on what you say here it sounds like you are angry at food, enough so to not even consider certain foods as food. It takes a certain amount of anger and fear (for lack of a better word) to disassociate oneself from certain foods. A lot of us on the IE path are recovering low carbers and believe me, after spending so many years chasing the low carb promises it led to nothing but frustration and a whole lot of what dieters call "falling off the wagon."
With IE there is no wagon. There is no cheating. We eat when we are hungry, we stop when we are full. IE is not about WHAT we eat and HOW MUCH we eat, it's all about WHY we eat, WHEN we eat, and HOW we eat. We spend a lot of time identifying the stressors that lead us to eat when we are not hungry or to continue eating past fullness. We also devote a lot of energy to accepting ourselves as we are and not withholding self love until we reach a certain weight loss goal. All the while we care deeply about our health but have suffered too many dieting traps that led to nothing but weight gain and heartache to return to diets. That's why we take great care not to villainize ANY foods. We've learned the hard way that when we label foods "bad" that our impulses tend to lead us right back to binging on that food.
Last edited by Palestrina; 04-30-2015 at 07:38 AM.
I don't know if we'll ever be perfect IEers. There are those born IEers that never seem to mess it up but for those of us who learn how to be IEers may always dip in and out of it, and cycle through it. Just know that you may be cycling through a low point and you'll come out of it on top again. That's how it seems to be working for me anyway.
Thanks Palestrina, I definitely feel like it is a cycle. so far I have stayed away from dieting and food books. I have been focusing more on my inner self and trying to take care of myself and meet my needs. Its funny and a little sad how hard that is. It's honestly a lot harder to take care of myself when I remove food from the equation because now I actually have to figure out what is going on and take steps to remedy it. A giant bowl of ice cream isn't my solution to happiness and all my problems anymore. I even saw my mom the other day and didn't come home and mindlessly eat all day like I always do every time I see her. Emotionally I was wiped out and it took me a couple of days to recover, but I didn't use food, it didn't even occur to me.
Owlteazombies I LOVE what you said about clean food! I laughed out loud, that is so perfect. I loathe the term "clean eating." So if I have a waffle or a candy bar Im eating filthy? Obviously a trigger for me.
It is really hard work to separate the good and bad from foods but I think I have really come a long way with that.
More and more and oh so gradually, I find myself eating mostly when Im hungry. I think I still sometimes eat more than my body needs at a sitting because I still have that silly food deprivation mindset going on of eat it all now, it might not be there later. But my weight has moved slowly down and I don't feel like I am doing any depriving. I feel like I eat whatever I want whenever I want. So, that is pretty cool.
Im still really trying to balance my needs as far as what I need to get done at home during the day, and exercise. It is so far difficult for me to make it work. I have been going for long bike rides with my husband on weekends that the kids go to grandma's and that has been awesome. I love doing that. It doesn't even feel like "exercise". I mean I work my body and sometimes work it hard but mentally it isn't exercise. I need to find something like that to do during the week but so far Im at a loss.
Last edited by Pinkhippie; 04-30-2015 at 10:55 AM.
Mashu270 the exact same thing happened with me and IE also. I still have to work sometimes to make sure that doesn't happen. I agree with Palestrina, you are waiting until you are too hungry. It's good to know what hunger feels like but its a skill to learn how hungry is too hungry and how hungry is not enough. It just takes practice, trial and error and not going back on a diet no matter how frightening it is. Trust me on this one.
As you research more about IE you'll find out that IE does not support any theories of addiction to food. I used to believe that I was addicted to food too which kept me pretty angry all the time and in constant victim mode when I fell prey to the evils of carbs and sugar. Based on what you say here it sounds like you are angry at food, enough so to not even consider certain foods as food. It takes a certain amount of anger and fear (for lack of a better word) to disassociate oneself from certain foods. A lot of us on the IE path are recovering low carbers and believe me, after spending so many years chasing the low carb promises it led to nothing but frustration and a whole lot of what dieters call "falling off the wagon."
With IE there is no wagon. There is no cheating. We eat when we are hungry, we stop when we are full. IE is not about WHAT we eat and HOW MUCH we eat, it's all about WHY we eat, WHEN we eat, and HOW we eat. We spend a lot of time identifying the stressors that lead us to eat when we are not hungry or to continue eating past fullness. We also devote a lot of energy to accepting ourselves as we are and not withholding self love until we reach a certain weight loss goal. All the while we care deeply about our health but have suffered too many dieting traps that led to nothing but weight gain and heartache to return to diets. That's why we take great care not to villainize ANY foods. We've learned the hard way that when we label foods "bad" that our impulses tend to lead us right back to binging on that food.
I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. Thank you for being such a great spokesperson for IE Palestrina. I cannot ever think of the words and you say it all for me.
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Palestrina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palestrina
As you research more about IE you'll find out that IE does not support any theories of addiction to food. I used to believe that I was addicted to food too which kept me pretty angry all the time and in constant victim mode when I fell prey to the evils of carbs and sugar. Based on what you say here it sounds like you are angry at food, enough so to not even consider certain foods as food. It takes a certain amount of anger and fear (for lack of a better word) to disassociate oneself from certain foods. A lot of us on the IE path are recovering low carbers and believe me, after spending so many years chasing the low carb promises it led to nothing but frustration and a whole lot of what dieters call "falling off the wagon."
With IE there is no wagon. There is no cheating. We eat when we are hungry, we stop when we are full. IE is not about WHAT we eat and HOW MUCH we eat, it's all about WHY we eat, WHEN we eat, and HOW we eat. We spend a lot of time identifying the stressors that lead us to eat when we are not hungry or to continue eating past fullness. We also devote a lot of energy to accepting ourselves as we are and not withholding self love until we reach a certain weight loss goal. All the while we care deeply about our health but have suffered too many dieting traps that led to nothing but weight gain and heartache to return to diets. That's why we take great care not to villainize ANY foods. We've learned the hard way that when we label foods "bad" that our impulses tend to lead us right back to binging on that food.
Okay, please stop. You talk about IE as if it is some sort of "Bible". As if it IS the only way. I personally don't care if "IE doesn't support any addictions to foods". Do you believe EVERYTHING you read? I don't! I have my own beliefs. Not sure you realize how you come off.
I simply joined this thread because I liked the words "Intuitive Eating". I think I can continue on my path of listening to MY OWN body and moving forward on MY OWN journey.
Please do not assume I am on the same path as you. We will just need to agree to disagree. "I" believe in addictions. "I" believe people are addicted to foods, alcohol, drugs, gambling. I understand you don't. That's okay with me. I won't try to MAKE you agree with me.
Doesn't sound like you have a very loving or open-minded approach when it comes to "guiding" others. I think that could be hurtful to vulnerable people that would get offended at your assumptions and quit this forum. Is it part of the IE philosophy to TELL others what they feel ("Based on what you say here it sounds like you are angry at food")? You don't know my history and I certainly don't need to defend myself. Your comment is not helpful or loving. In fact it sounds self-righteous to me!
Isn't it better to ALLOW people to come to their own conclusions after doing their own research and looking within? If this is the philosophy of IE, I'm sure it will not work for me. I have my own beliefs and don't need anyone pushing theirs on me like a "religion".
I am at peace with myself and who I am, so fortunately what you assume and write will have no impact on my serenity and path. I only hope you can look within and ask for guidance when responding to people.
As for food, I love it! Not all of of it, just the foods that help my body feel nourished. Yes, I do believe there are "so called foods" that are not "real foods" that are not good for my body. I don't like eating preservatives, pesticides, food coloring, etc. That is my journey, not yours. No need to comment as it is obvious we do not see eye to eye!
Okay guys, calorie counting blows. Just sayin'. I'm just going by what my dietitian says for a while. It's easier than trying to count and weigh/measure everything. It also makes me anxious and brings on some ED behaviors that I'm not interested in entertaining.
I still feel like I need a bit of structure, which isn't too far out of the ball park for IE. My dietitian likes me to eat 3 meals and 2-3 snacks per day, and quite honestly my body is used to it and gets hungry for those foods at those times anyway. What's important for me is carbs carbs carbs. No more stuffing myself with protein.
No need to comment as it is obvious we do not see eye to eye!
I really wasn't going to say anything but I really hate it when people think they can demand on having the last word on our thread.
I'm sorry you're not getting the answers you thought you would get. "Intuitive Eating" are not just some cute words that sound nice, they are a title of an actual system and approach to eating that focuses on helping people cope with disordered eating and diffusing the diet mentality. I'm not here to love you and take care of you, everyone on this board is perfectly nice and welcoming, but nobody is going to hold your hand. This thread is specific to IE. There are many philosophy based threads here, they are not religions. You may find the Food Addicts Support thread especially helpful to you. There is also a calorie counters thread, a whole section of the forum is devoted to low-carbing, there is a place for everyone here. This thread just happens to being about Intuitive Eating. You're welcome to stay, but we can't all change who we are here just so we can make you feel included. Food addiction, clean eating and the villainization of foods are not concepts that we discuss here because they go against the principles of IE. That's not a personal attack, it's just a matter of fact, you wouldn't go on a paleo forum and talk to them about sourdough bread would you? No, because that's not what a paleo forum typically discusses and so it would create conflict rather incite constructive conversation.
We've been nothing but welcoming here and gave you suggestions on books and resources. We've tried to explain what IE is, we always welcome curious newcomers and do our best to be inclusive of everyone, but an IEers #1 priority is to NOT diet, it sounds harsh but we are bombarded with diet talk everywhere we go and everywhere we look and this little corner of the forum is the one place where we don't have to. This is not a religion to us, it's just the place that we come to for support on the difficult concepts of IE.
Okay guys, calorie counting blows. Just sayin'. I'm just going by what my dietitian says for a while. It's easier than trying to count and weigh/measure everything. It also makes me anxious and brings on some ED behaviors that I'm not interested in entertaining.
I still feel like I need a bit of structure, which isn't too far out of the ball park for IE. My dietitian likes me to eat 3 meals and 2-3 snacks per day, and quite honestly my body is used to it and gets hungry for those foods at those times anyway. What's important for me is carbs carbs carbs. No more stuffing myself with protein.
I guess there's a learning curve for IE, eh?
I would say so. You know there's nothing wrong with scheduled eating, don't feel like it's a trap. It's nice not having to think about whether or not you should eat, schedule it in and do it.
I agree though, calorie counting is awful, it makes anxious just thinking about it.
@Pinkhippie, did you ever read Eating by the Light of the Moon? I'm reading it now and there is an analogy about ED that really struck me. The author describes (if I remember correctly) a woman drowning. She looks around and catches hold of a big log (which represents ED). This log saves her life! But then she feels like she wants to get out of the water entirely and go to the shore, only she's afraid to let go of the log for fear of drowning. So with IE we can learn to swim around the log, yet be close enough to reach out and grab it when we need to and fear causes us to do so continuously. It is only when we are strong enough to swim on our own that we can let go of that log and swim to the shore. That's what it's like to get rid of disordered eating, we keep it close at hand because it works without fail. It just made me think of you, about cycling back and forth with IE.
I love love love that book. I'm about half way through it myself. That analogy really struck me, too. That's why I like Overcoming Overeating's suggestion to let yourself eat when you're not hungry but to make note of the circumstances. It's okay to eat whenever but try to understand why. What were you feeling? In my recovery it was really important for me at the beginning to backtrack after I had engaged in ED behaviors. The behaviors are signs that I didn't address something correctly. So if I binged/purged I would backtrack to see what had started it- was I lonely? Angry? Tired? This helped me sort out a lot of stuff about myself.
Okay guys, calorie counting blows. Just sayin'. I'm just going by what my dietitian says for a while. It's easier than trying to count and weigh/measure everything. It also makes me anxious and brings on some ED behaviors that I'm not interested in entertaining.
I still feel like I need a bit of structure, which isn't too far out of the ball park for IE. My dietitian likes me to eat 3 meals and 2-3 snacks per day, and quite honestly my body is used to it and gets hungry for those foods at those times anyway. What's important for me is carbs carbs carbs. No more stuffing myself with protein.
I guess there's a learning curve for IE, eh?
It sounds like you are figuring out what works for you. I think structure helps me too, especially in the beginning. And I personally feel very unsatisfied without enough carbs. It took me a long time to get away from the diet mentality to realize my natural form of eating is quite a lot of carbs. I agree about weighing and measuring making me anxious too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palestrina
We've tried to explain what IE is, we always welcome curious newcomers and do our best to be inclusive of everyone, but an IEers #1 priority is to NOT diet, it sounds harsh but we are bombarded with diet talk everywhere we go and everywhere we look and this little corner of the forum is the one place where we don't have to. This is not a religion to us, it's just the place that we come to for support on the difficult concepts of IE.
Agree with this! Its hard to understand if the diet mentality doesn't have a serious hold on you and or you are not aware the diet mentality has a serious hold on you but this is so true. This is the only place I can come for non diet talk/ideas, a harsh dose of much needed reality sometimes and help working through my diet issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palestrina
@Pinkhippie, did you ever read Eating by the Light of the Moon? I'm reading it now and there is an analogy about ED that really struck me. The author describes (if I remember correctly) a woman drowning. She looks around and catches hold of a big log (which represents ED). This log saves her life! But then she feels like she wants to get out of the water entirely and go to the shore, only she's afraid to let go of the log for fear of drowning. So with IE we can learn to swim around the log, yet be close enough to reach out and grab it when we need to and fear causes us to do so continuously. It is only when we are strong enough to swim on our own that we can let go of that log and swim to the shore. That's what it's like to get rid of disordered eating, we keep it close at hand because it works without fail. It just made me think of you, about cycling back and forth with IE.
It turned out my library didn't have it, neither did any surrounding libraries and not even our local bookstore has it. I am going to have to order it off Amazon. That analogy brought some tears to my eyes because it rings so true for me. My ED absolutely was/is my log. Sometimes I even think the log isn't there anymore but it is, always close enough to reach out and grab it. I am going to get that book. I guess I do cycle back and forth on IE. I am striving to leave that log alone for now.
Last edited by Pinkhippie; 04-30-2015 at 04:25 PM.
Palestrina
