[Pandora123a]

Billy,

Why should you lose weight? You shouldn't! Despite all the positives that folks experience for themselves, it is because there are things they want that you don't. One thing I am very sure of, despite all the rewards for me, losing weight is hard, any change is. The positives only come after some negatives. (I find my food tastes changing, but before they did I really really missed the things I used to like. I don't miss them much now, but it took time for me to prefer other options.)

One thing I am very sure of, losing weight for someone else doesn't work. You don't want to lose weight. Don't. Your family can't make you have surgery. At most they can nag you, and of course to the extent you depend on them they can refuse to assist. I hope you are as honest with them as you are here. Don't play games about metabolism, tell your brother you don't want to lose weight.

I find it sad and amusing simultaneously that so many folks here want to convince you that you should lose and how wonderful it will be. Weightloss (or maintenance) is a personal choice. It may be awful for you. We complain about the judgements of others, I don't need affirmation about why losing weight would be good, I want to lose it. If you don't, okay.

I know the statistics are grim, I've been one of them for a long time. I hope and believe that I have changed things enough for me to be one of the 2% this time. If I am, it is because I have made some radical changes in my thinking and behavior. No one could make those changes for me, and no one could force me to make those changes.

Apparently you are pleased with your life and choices...so be it.

Others here are far more kind and tolerant. Me, not so much. This group is weight loss support. You seem to want to rename it "no weight loss support." You are completely entitled to do what you want, but 3FC is not about weight acceptance or promotion of being fat.

[Beach Patrol]

Wow Billy. You seem really DETERMINED to not be "determined" at all. I can't quite comprehend WHY you're here. But you've been VERY honest & forthright & so I feel perfectly capable & completely OK in being honest & forthright with you.

Hang on to your hat... because everyone here has been so incredibly nice & accommodating to you, but I don't pull punches. You want honesty? BABY YOU GOT IT.

First of all, you say you are *disgustly fat* & that you *don't care*. Nothing is better in life than food. Think about that statement. "NOTHING IS AS GOOD AS TASTY FOOD." That's just pathetic. There are SO MANY MORE THINGS in life that are better than food!

You're diabetic. And you really don't seem to care, after all you get "free meds" & you have your "scooter" & so forth. You are not afraid of dying, you really don't care, you've said so yourself. So I guess you don't care that you might end up losing a foot or a leg or go blind. Yeah, big deal, losing a foot or a leg cause hey! - you already got that cool scooter thing! And that blindness threat.... oh Phhhttt! - you don't need to read or watch TV anyway, cause there'll be all that tasty food around to get you thru your days & nights.

Oh, & as for that FREE thing? Yeah, as you said, the only people you're TRULY hurting (besides yourself) is the TAXPAYER. Well, as a taxpayer, I'd like to say that I don't appreciate your attitude. Sweetie - IT AIN'T FREE. I'M PAYING FOR IT.

As for "wanting a wife & maybe some kids" but you've already admitted that you don't think anyone you'd be attracted to would be interested in you so why bother... well, I think you're absolutely right. It's not so much about the fat thing, but YOUR ATTITUDE. OMG, why would any person want to be with anybody who didn't care about themselves? You don't seem to care about your health, you don't care about being a burden on an already over-burdened system, & you don't care about dying or anything else - JUST FOOD. So tell me Billy - why should someone like me, who is struggling to lose the weight & who cares VERY MUCH about my health.... why should *I* care about *you*? Funny thing. Somehow I just do.

Billy - I won't apologize for giving you this straight up, heads-on, blunt & honest post. YOU NEED SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL HELP. That's something no one here at 3FC can give you.

I honestly wish you the best & I hope you find a way to turn your attitude & your life around. LIFE IS MEANT TO BE LIVED. You're not living. You are simply existing.

~Peace

[Tomato]

Well, I just finished reading this thread from the first post to the end (currently BeachPatrol's post) and I have to say I am surprised nobody said earlier what BeachPatrol did. I was getting myself ready to post something very similar, but she said it really well so I would just like to add my name to it.
And I completely agree with her from A-Z, especially the part about not living but merely existing.

[JayEll]

I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that name calling and bashing are not allowed, so please keep the discussion respectful. We can have strong feelings without disrespecting other posters.

Jay

[yoyonomoreinvegas]

Originally Posted by BillyG

I guess I am looking for a reward greater than food but what is greater than tasty food.

A quote from another poster that has really stuck with me: "Nothing tastes as good as wearing a smaller size feels" Even if it's only one size, I can't really describe the sense of accomplishment.

I almost get the feeling you're trying to get the rest of us to give up and join in with your "blob" movement. I think you're in the wrong place for that. Some 3FC members may originally start out with nothing more in mind than looking better but those of us who stick around get pretty quickly "converted" to so much more - meaning better health and a lifestyle that just feels GREAT.

You may truly be a food addict who needs professional counseling but something I found out - Swapping out Del Taco and Cold Stone Creamery for "clean" food (meaning fresh, with limited or no processing) seems to have made such an amazing difference in my attitude and outlook. Things that used to stress me so badly they would send me off into hiding in bed with that "what's the use" attitude (that you claim to be so proud of) just don't have the same hold on me as they used to - not to say I never have a bad moment, but they just don't last anymore. My entire outlook is different - with your current state of cynicism I predict you'll be rolling your eyes and snickering at this but I really have learned how to "stop and smell the roses". I've got a fantastic backyard that attracts several species of beautiful birds (including hummingbirds), butterflies, dragonfiles, bees - my own little oasis - but I never enjoyed it. I looked at it as a lot of work and expense. Thank heavens I didn't let it die because now, instead of plopping in front of the TV with a bag of chips and the blinds closed to shut out the world, I get enormous pleasure sitting on my patio watching finches with bright red feathers dining on my sunflowers. You don't have to have a backyard - try just spending a quite hour in a park or a public rose garden. Heck, sit in your scooter in the Wal Mart garden section for 15 minutes just looking at the plants - anything is a start.

You know, whatever your motives for originally posting here were, I for one am kind of grateful that you've made me look back at how I used to feel and made me realize how much better I feel now. Nope, no reverting back to the "blob" movement here. You've succeeded in making me reaffirm all the changes I've made so far, and recommit to continue making positive changes on my road to better health. Thanks.

So, see, you did succeed in doing something positive. Without even trying Imagine what you could do if you did try!

[KLK]

I agree with this. Personally, I love food and I will never stop loving it, but I've learned to love/want REAL, fresh, unprocessed foods and that has made a huge difference. I didn't realize beforehand how I was literally drugging myself with high-fructose corn syrup, batter, sugar, etc. until I stopped consuming those things and I escaped their hold. Before I broke their control, I thought I would never be able to give up food, but of course, what I was eating back then wasn't really "food" but a collection of chemicals.

In terms of decadence... the heavily processed foods have NOTHING on fresh, minimally processed and unprocessed foods in terms of taste and how you feel after you eat them.

Originally Posted by yoyodieterinvegas

You may truly be a food addict who needs professional counseling but something I found out - Swapping out Del Taco and Cold Stone Creamery for "clean" food (meaning fresh, with limited or no processing) seems to have made such an amazing difference in my attitude and outlook. Things that used to stress me so badly they would send me off into hiding in bed with that "what's the use" attitude (that you claim to be so proud of) just don't have the same hold on me as they used to - not to say I never have a bad moment, but they just don't last anymore.

[yoyonomoreinvegas]

Originally Posted by KLK

In terms of decadence... the heavily processed foods have NOTHING on fresh, minimally processed and unprocessed foods in terms of taste and how you feel after you eat them.

Isn't it funny? A year ago, if you would have told me that my that my idea of a decadent treat was going to be a cup of chocolate soy milk blended with frozen (unsweetened) blackberries, I would have said you were out of your tree

[kaplods]

Well, I just finished reading this thread from the first post to the end (currently BeachPatrol's post) and I have to say I am surprised nobody said earlier what BeachPatrol did.
__________________________________________________ _______

I didn't, because it is obviously what Billy was trying to incite. "Call me a jerk, and I don't have to listen to you," I recognize the sentiment. I've seen the sentiment when I was a probation officer. "I'm just a jerk and I don't care that I'm a jerk, and I don't intend to change, so what are you going to do about it?"

And I'll say what I said then, "absolutely nothing, I cannot prevent you from destroying your life, and the lives of all the people stupid enough to love you."

The "stupid" part, I have to admit I added for effect, because even the hardest of criminals would get upset that I had implied that their mothers or wives or children were "stupid," for loving them, UNLESS they were in clinical depression. It was a test, because if a person agreed with me that the people in their lives WERE indeed stupid for loving them, I knew that I was probably dealing with someone severely depressed.

If Billy isn't deliberately trying to bait us, or perhaps even if he is, I think counseling is more important than weight loss for him at this time.

[cmichele1974]

It's a fact that 100% who never begin fail, and, 100% of those who succeed started.

There's nothing left for me to say here. Those two things are the only things that are 100% in weight loss.

[KLK]

LOL right! And my idea of a great day off from work, or a great Saturday, back then was to wake up around 11:30 and then sit around all day watching TV and eating.

While I do still like to veg out occasionally, my new idea of a great day off is to wake up around 8:00, eat a good breakfast, workout for about an hour, shower and then leave the house and go do something.

Originally Posted by yoyodieterinvegas

Isn't it funny? A year ago, if you would have told me that my that my idea of a decadent treat was going to be a cup of chocolate soy milk blended with frozen (unsweetened) blackberries, I would have said you were out of your tree

[Beach Patrol]

Originally Posted by KLK

Personally, I love food and I will never stop loving it, but I've learned to love/want REAL, fresh, unprocessed foods and that has made a huge difference. I didn't realize beforehand how I was literally drugging myself with high-fructose corn syrup, batter, sugar, etc. until I stopped consuming those things and I escaped their hold. Before I broke their control, I thought I would never be able to give up food, but of course, what I was eating back then wasn't really "food" but a collection of chemicals.

THAT is a very powerful statement! I too, recently had the epiphany that HFCS & sugar has been a DRUG to me. I've never done any drugs - never even tried pot - but HFCS & sugar has been that deadly addiction for me. Breaking that hold really effected me physically, and yet mentally/emotionally, I suppose I will always grapple with it. My goal is not simply to "obtain thinness" - my goal is to never go back to being "HFCS/Sugar addicted" ever again.

[BillyG]

Originally Posted by Beach Patrol

Wow Billy. You seem really DETERMINED to not be "determined" at all. I can't quite comprehend WHY you're here. But you've been VERY honest & forthright & so I feel perfectly capable & completely OK in being honest & forthright with you.

Hang on to your hat... because everyone here has been so incredibly nice & accommodating to you, but I don't pull punches. You want honesty? BABY YOU GOT IT.

First of all, you say you are *disgustly fat* & that you *don't care*. Nothing is better in life than food. Think about that statement. "NOTHING IS AS GOOD AS TASTY FOOD." That's just pathetic. There are SO MANY MORE THINGS in life that are better than food!

You're diabetic. And you really don't seem to care, after all you get "free meds" & you have your "scooter" & so forth. You are not afraid of dying, you really don't care, you've said so yourself. So I guess you don't care that you might end up losing a foot or a leg or go blind. Yeah, big deal, losing a foot or a leg cause hey! - you already got that cool scooter thing! And that blindness threat.... oh Phhhttt! - you don't need to read or watch TV anyway, cause there'll be all that tasty food around to get you thru your days & nights.

Oh, & as for that FREE thing? Yeah, as you said, the only people you're TRULY hurting (besides yourself) is the TAXPAYER. Well, as a taxpayer, I'd like to say that I don't appreciate your attitude. Sweetie - IT AIN'T FREE. I'M PAYING FOR IT.

As for "wanting a wife & maybe some kids" but you've already admitted that you don't think anyone you'd be attracted to would be interested in you so why bother... well, I think you're absolutely right. It's not so much about the fat thing, but YOUR ATTITUDE. OMG, why would any person want to be with anybody who didn't care about themselves? You don't seem to care about your health, you don't care about being a burden on an already over-burdened system, & you don't care about dying or anything else - JUST FOOD. So tell me Billy - why should someone like me, who is struggling to lose the weight & who cares VERY MUCH about my health.... why should *I* care about *you*? Funny thing. Somehow I just do.

Billy - I won't apologize for giving you this straight up, heads-on, blunt & honest post. YOU NEED SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL HELP. That's something no one here at 3FC can give you.

I honestly wish you the best & I hope you find a way to turn your attitude & your life around. LIFE IS MEANT TO BE LIVED. You're not living. You are simply existing.

~Peace

You people are the exception not the rule. I have made feeble attempts to lose weight and make changes. The only difference between me and my fat contemporaries is I am being honest about. I believe that most of you will lose weight and most of you will keep it off. Weight loss is not rocket surgery. IT is all about energy expenditure and the will to change. I know that.

Unlike other obesity accepters and promoters I am not anti diet because I know that diets don't fail. People fail. I think that the folks here have a lean mentality and they really are thin people trapped in a fat body but for the rest of us we like the prison of our fat and that is why we won't change and play the games that allow us to fail with dignity. I am beyond dignity.

I hope all of you reach your goals and I think you will.

I am not ruling out the possiblility to attempting weight loss. I am not really looking for support. I am looking for clarity.

[Beach Patrol]

Originally Posted by BillyG

You people are the exception not the rule. I have made feeble attempts to lose weight and make changes. The only difference between me and my fat contemporaries is I am being honest about. I believe that most of you will lose weight and most of you will keep it off. Weight loss is not rocket surgery. IT is all about energy expenditure and the will to change. I know that.

Honey, believe me - I am NO exception to any rule. I too have made those "feeble attempts" to lose weight & make changes. Nothing much happened.

BUT! - there's always a BUT! - I didn't just lose the weight & keep it off. This is my SIXTH attempt. I have lost & gained 30-40 pounds five times before... now my goal is to lose 45-50 pounds. I can only hope that I learn something THIS GO ROUND that I didn't learn before - and that is to maintain the loss once I finally lose it. Because honestly, I think yo-yo-dieting is just as bad for you as not dieting at all.

I am not ruling out the possiblility to attempting weight loss. I am not really looking for support. I am looking for clarity.

Clarity, for what, exactly? That it's OK for you to NOT diet because you don't care? Sure - I believe in that. I believe that each person is responsible for his or her own self. And if you don't want to lose weight, then you won't. But if you... if you really WANT it, you'll find what works for you. And it may take several attempts (like me) or it may take YEARRRRSSSSS instead of months to do it, and you may only lose 50% of your goal instead of 80% or 100%.... but the fact is, it would be healthy & wise for you to START CARING ABOUT YOURSELF. And if you DO decide to diet/exercise... you won't find a more caring group of people than those who are right here.

[fiberlover]

Originally Posted by BillyG

I am not ruling out the possiblility to attempting weight loss. I am not really looking for support. I am looking for clarity.

What type of clarity are you looking for? Do you want someone to say that of course, you will fail? Or that change is possible?

I am not sure I agree with the statement that the majority of the people here are the exception to the rule. This board has had thousands of members come and go. Many of those are in the stats of not sticking with it.

I can't say I am a thin person in a fat person's body. I was never thin, so I don't really think that is the case. I am a former fat person in a thinner body now. I had to make that change happen, it wasn't natural for me, but it was something I wanted.

I do hope that you are inspired to make small changes in your life, whether you are going to just be content as you are or not. Small changes over time can add up to big things. Many times people fail at dieting because they do it all at once (food and exercise) and expect perfection. The reality is - it isn't about perfection, but about practice. You put your habits into practice and reap the results.

[JayEll]

Hey, BillyG.

Here are some thoughts I have about clarity: Everything changes, nothing stays the same. I think that's pretty clear. So, it's not that you will stay as you are now, and neither will I or anyone else. To some extent, we can change the direction we're going. To some extent--because we're all going to get to the end of the road, regardless. And there are things we may not be able to reverse, and may not be able to reach. For example, I'm just not gonna be an Olympic swimmer!

You can continue to gain weight, or you can try to stay the same weight as you are now, or you can try to lose some weight. Gaining is probably not going to make your life any more pleasurable. Staying the same weight might be a worthwhile goal for awhile--it's up to you. Losing would probably help with some things--you might be more mobile, might be able to get off of injecting insulin, might reduce your sleep apnea. However, depending on how long you have been obese, and how big you are, you might still qualify as disabled for a long time.

I don't want to see you unhappy and struggling--but really, that's what you are now, don't you think? I would bet that if you found a medically supervised program, you wouldn't have to be starving or feeling deprived. You could still have foods you enjoy, just in more constrained amounts. It is not really so bad!

What's more, you are not beyond dignity. I do not think so. In my book you are a precious human being, just like everyone else.

Jay