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Old 08-31-2003, 09:38 AM   #1
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Question Do I need WW or a different therapy? HELP

I hope someone can give me some input, as this is my first time posting. I have just started lurking on the board and in the past (about 6 years ago) I went to WW with great success on the exchange program. I met goal when the program switched over to points. I was 10 pounds below goal (about 122) and am now 145. I am 5'2". I have gone back to WW on and off but never achieved goal again.

Truthfully, on the "old" program, despite losing 20 lbs. I felt as if I was starving. I really did and the points didn't do much more for me. I am always gung ho to start and then realize I AM VERY HUNGRY and go almost in the total opposite direction of a diet.

I am almost tempted to go tomorrow to try the Flex Points but I am not sure if anything at all will help me. I am in such a bad mind set. I feel so guilty when I eat (which makes me wonder if this is beyond weight watchers). When I get up in the AM the first thing I think about is food. I have yet to find a breakfast to fill me up that isn't 20 points. I ate 2 pieces of leftover pizza and 1 1/2 pc. of zucchini bread after that today. I am fairly stuffed but in my mind I can't WAIT til lunch. Food is my obcession and although I don't cook with tons of fat, drink soda or eat very much fast food I know this is adding up.

I am very depressed and I am just not sure if I can do this. I always feel like I am starving. I don't drink much water because (embarrasing) a year ago I got a horrible bladder infection and since then it's like I have a systicitis where I can't hold much water. I used to drink 10-12 glasses a day, now when I drink one I run to the bathroom about 4 times in one hour, so that doesn't help me. (Went to several dr, urologists---no one can really help me) so this is just what I deal with.

I am sorry to dump and I really would like to be a success story but my thinking is all wrong and negative. I just feel like I get a panic attack when I even think I am hungry.

I know when I went to WW I may have had bad days but I was very responsible in facing the music and it really helped me to have to know someone was going to weigh me. Now I am not sure, I have such a distorted view on eating and dieting and weight loss. It consumes me on a level that I am not sure everyone can relate to. Maybe I have no "stick-to-it-ivness." I know my mind has to change but I am not sure it can. I have too much guilt with every bite of food that I swallow. That's why I am wondering...am I "beyond" WW's help or do I need a therapist?

Thanks so much for letting me ven.
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Old 08-31-2003, 11:53 AM   #2
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To tell you the truth you need to be hungry the first day or two.
To keep from being hungry you need to EAT BY THE NUMBERS (or find the combo of a higher or lower carb provided in Week 6) to make you satisified. Your 'tastes' need to change.

From your post I would say you are not mentally ready to lose the weight because W/W is not a DIET it is a change in your lifestyle however,


Flex Points is nice in a way that they give you a minimum number of points you need to eat a day called TARGET POINTS, then you can earn points based on exercise to use next (before you dig into the FLEX POINTS) called ACTIVITY POINTS. Activity Points are based on the intensity of activity, length of time you do it and your current body weight and you can only use them on the day that you earn them (we used to be able to bank them). Then you can get into your 35 FLEX POINTS for the week.

I suggest finding something low in protein at each 'major' meal, learning to like the zero point veggies to help as fillers and utilizing the higher fiber foods for fillers also.

EATING BY THE NUMBERS consists of spending:

COMPLEX CARBS (which are not sweets, white sugar, white flours)
- 6-9 points a day
PROTEIN - 6-8 points a day
DAIRY - 4-6 points a day
FATS (real fats such as oils, real salad dressings, real mayo, butter/margarine and not the fats including in the foods you eat)
FRIUTS&VEGGIES - 0-3 points a day

Drinking your water will help you also get a fuller feeling. Many times when one things they are hungry they are really thirsty because they are so dehydrated. Your bladder will adjust eventually...besides water is good to keep away bladder and UTI infections (believe me I work in a Urology Office and if our patients would head our words on water they would spend less time in our office). Ask your doctor for Detrol or a smiliar prescription to help with your bladder, I would also ask for a cystoscopy.

You didn't list your height in your post but at 5'4" 145 is the high end of the weight chart. Rermember that the closer you are to your ideal/goal weight the harder the pounds come off.

I am 5'4" and I have my goal weight set at 150. I look good, I fit in the size jeans I want to be in and I feel healthy.

Here is one of my day's journals to show you what I eat. I get 20 TARGET POINTS A DAY and earn about 1-3 points a day in ACTIVITY POINTS. i am lactose intolerant so I take a supplement for that and use those points elsewhere but I do realize it would be better for me if I could try to incorporate it in small amounts.

BREAKFAST: 3 POINTS

Kelly's Smoothie (1/2 cup strawberries, 1 cup mixed fruit, 1 cup Diet V8 Splash, 1/2 cup plain fat-free yogurt, some Splenda) = 3 points

LUNCH: 8 POINTS

1 3/4 ounces of lean pork chops
1/2 cup instant mashed potatoes + 1 teaspoon butter
1 small salad with 2 tablespoons Newman's Own Light Balsamic Vinegarette Dressing
1 Rice Krispy Treat

DINNER: 7 POINTS

196gm (approx 4 ounces) boneless, skinless grilled chicken breast
1 cup spinach + 1 teaspoon butter
3/4 cup Minute Rice

AM SNACKS: 1 POINT

1 cup V8
15 grams Caramel Quakes

EVENING SNACKS: 4 POINTS

1 Camarel Apple Lollypop
1/2 cup vanilla ice cream

TOTAL FOR THE DAY: 23 POINTS

TARGET POINT: 22 + 1 EARNED ACTIVITY POINT = 23 POINTS FOR THE DAY

Here is another day:

BREAKFAST(more like brunch because this was a Sunday): 5 POINTS

1 whole egg + 3 egg whites, fried 1 teaspoon butter and PAM
2 slices Iron Kids Crustless Bread
2 slices Oscar Mayer Center Cut Bacon
1 pot of tea

LUNCH: 2 points

small salad with 3 tablespoons fat-free honey mustard + 1 teaspoon olive oil

DINNER: 11 points
6 ounces Smart Meat Sirloin Steak
1 8-ounce cooked baked potato + 1 teaspoon butter + Butter Buds
2/3 cup corn

AM SNACK: 0 points

None

PM SNACKS: 11 points

1 3"x3" slice of cake (made without oil and only using 2 tablespoons of canned frosting)
1 cup of broccoli w/salsa for dip
15 grams Caramel Quakes
1 Kelly's Quesadilla (1 reduced fat tortilla + 1 ounce cheddar cheese + jalapenos) topped with salsa

TOTAL FOR THE DAY: 29 POINTS

TARGET POINT: 22 + 3 EARNED ACTIVITY POINT = 25 POINTS FOR THE DAY --- HAD TO USE 4 FLEX POINTS ON THIS DAY.
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Old 08-31-2003, 06:22 PM   #3
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Thanks Kel, that all sounds really sensible. I know there is nothing more than I want or need than to change my lifestyle. I am definately in a "diet" mentality with good and bad foods and what I want most to change is the all or nothing plan. I am either on or off and I am either strict or binging. I can't stand that. I hate that if I take one bite or one meal of something bad I feel like a failure and I let that bad meal turn into a day/week/month...

See, if I ate a pork chop for lunch and another meat for dinner I would feel like I blew it. Even when I have bacon for breakfast I feel like I shouldn't have eaten it. Can you tell I am heavy on the guilt?!

I really appreciate your advice and your samples meals. That is what helps me the most.

PS--I had the cysto (ouch--plus they found nothing) and detrol only makes me thirsty. Didn't help me any other way.
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Old 08-31-2003, 06:45 PM   #4
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There are a few other prescriptions that may work better. Off the top of my head I can't think of what they are called. There is also a surgical option for over active bladders.

You need protein each day so why would you feel that 2 meals with meat would be a failure? If you feel that way maybe utilizing things like TVP or tofu or vegetable proteins for the meat. Bacon isn't killing a diet if you have a slice or two...it is eating a whole pound that is.

If you can see if you can get a consult through your medical plan with a nutritionist or registered dietician.

If you can find the book called THE COMPLETE BOOK OF FITNESS - MIND*BODY*SPIRT by the Editors of Fitness Magazine with Karen Andes and read the nutritional section. It really provides much light on eating health and how there really is no bad foods...just bad portions.
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Old 09-02-2003, 03:27 AM   #5
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You know, Disney Girl, I agree with everything Kelly mentioned, but I'm also wondering if you've shared how you are emotionally feeling about being obsessed, etc., with your docs or are you just sharing physical symptoms and looking for physical answers. I relate to a lot of what you are saying, have suffered from eating disorders, so forgive me and hope it doesn't offend, but you need to talk face-to-face to someone such as physician, counselor, minister, nutrtionist, etc. ...

Some of what you say about WW meetings, weigh-ins, etc., is how I feel. I'm just discovering the joy of Flexpoints but I don't do the meetings and prefer private weigh-ins. I don't see that that makes us dysfunctional ... it seems reasonable to me that some people like to be more private.

I get anxious if I feel hungry as well ... actually, I think most people do, though they may not phrase it that way. I like Flexpoints a lot and it might answer a lot of your anxious feelings to use this if you need to lose weight. But it couldn't hurt to sort out your feelings with a therapist ... life's too short to be depressed, obsessed or anxious ... and food's a gift that should be enjoyed and that you deserve to enjoy because you are a good person and you have a right to be happy.

Hope nothing I say brings any offense. No one can truly no how you feel inside, but it's good that you are venting it and working on it!
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Old 09-02-2003, 07:23 AM   #6
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Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I think right now I feel too obcessive to start the plan. I just start feeling crazy when I think about all my food checked off in little boxes, etc. I know that it works for people, it worked for me once upon a time, but I think somehow I got into a "warped" way of thinking about food and you are right, I need to deal with that first. Somehow, this is more than about food for some reason, but I am not sure what. I am not offended at your comments, I believe there is much truth in them, I am just too embarrased to discuss with the drs....

I am going to try to find my way out of this somehow, thanks for your input. Maybe I need to see Dr. Phil, lol.
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Old 09-02-2003, 06:54 PM   #7
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Girl,
Don't laugh...
This fall Dr. Phil is doing a major series on food and how to really take off the weight. I think he is excellent and even if you are not ready now, you may see someone on the show with your problems/rational for not being ready the power to move on. We all have a comfort ability level and we all have issues with food or we wouldn't be here. Take your time and when you are ready take the step, until then maybe your goal is to not gain any more and give yourself permission to not be so consumed by food and what it means to you.

I would also find something that makes you happy and do it. It may be an art class, a gym class, or volunteering for a shelter or a daycare/nursing home or even taking a walk every day, but find something just for you and your well being. If you can find that which make you feel good, you might be able to make more positive steps.

Be well and keep posting....
-L
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Old 09-02-2003, 07:42 PM   #8
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Thank you so much for your kind words, they mean so much. I think in my own eyes I have always been fat, even when I lost and was 122. I tried so hard to get to 120 that I have "dieted" my way to 145.

Anyway, yes, I LOVE Dr. Phil and he has given me alot to think about. I look forward to seeing his shows because I truly need a change of heart.

Best of luck to all.
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Old 09-02-2003, 10:49 PM   #9
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Keep going, Disney Girl! You'll find your path! I love L's suggestion about taking a class or getting absorbed in something you love that doesn't have a single thing to do with food or weight! I need to do some more of that myself.

I like Dr. P as well. Love his "get real" and "how's that working for you?"

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Old 09-03-2003, 06:15 AM   #10
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Do you know what is funny? Last January I started planning our first Disney trip (thus the name) and not one time during that period did I obcess about food. I never did this and I thought I was "well." When I came back from my trip all of this came flooding back--looking up weight loss plans, all the obcession and the guilt.

Gosh, I might have to take another Disney vacaion for sanity's sake.
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Old 09-03-2003, 09:02 AM   #11
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Disney Girl,
I agree whole-heartily with L..........and also want you to know there are many people who do the same things you do and think the same things you think....only to discover they arent the only ones! It is more common than you think! Go easy on yourself.
I love Ralph Waldo Emersons quote " A problem recognized if half solved ! " You are recognizing things and honest.......both are important! You are going to be alright!

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Old 09-03-2003, 09:07 AM   #12
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Cin, thank you so much. Believe me when I tell you this weekend I was really wondering if I had a mental illness. I don't say that to be funny, I am very serious. I just don't know how many times I sit and obcess and obcess about what I eat, what I weigh, what I am going to do about it...about how I should just accept myself but then I can't seem to do that.

Sometimes I am so jealous of people that seem normal, where food is a non-issue. I have no idea what that would be like. I just would love to go through a day where I eat and do not obcess about what I am eating.

Thanks for letting me vent. No one in "my world" can relate in the least.
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Old 09-03-2003, 03:36 PM   #13
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Here is another suggestion, Don't weigh yourself. Put the scale away someplace where you can't get to it too easily. I sewar it makes a hug difference. Go by how your cloths fit and just take the daily weighing out of the equation.
-L
(ps cin, thanks
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Old 09-03-2003, 04:39 PM   #14
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Much agreed about the scale. It is a mood indicator/torture device for me. I can be doing just fine mentally and a half pound gain will send me into deep depression. Gosh, so much of losing weight/being healthy is a mental challenge.
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Old 09-03-2003, 06:49 PM   #15
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Girl i am the same way. I finally last year put away the scale. It could put me in such a bad mood for the day. The poor kids suffered to no end.

I will confess that I am going to re join WW tomorrow or in the next few days as the school schedual permitts. I have been following the flex points for about a week and I like it. I like the big bank.....
but I will NOT weigh in at home. it is too hard for me and i do get a little obsessive by WI 3 or 4 times a day (YIKES) so out with the old.....
Hang in there, cin is right, you are far from ALONE. we all do this in one way or another .So we have to look at other people for help and suggestions to work our way around bad habbits and compulsive behavior.
-L
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