What each of us can have in moderation vs. cutting out is, as with everything else, a personal decision we need to make by listening to our own bodies. I was big and ate a LOT of sweets, but sugar is something I can have in moderation without throwing myself off track. Some people can't.

I'd encourage everyone considering giving up sugar to make that decision based on your own body and what it tells you about how sugar makes you feel and what cravings it gives you.

Yes, it is an individual thing.

But I would urge everyone to at least experiment with eliminating it cold turkey. And not to dread it. But to actually be excited about it as it may be a miraculous discovery to you. Give yourself the challenge. LOVE Warmaiden's idea of *trying it out* for 30 days. Just 30 days. And than after that one can re-assess it.

So much of weight loss is an individual thing. I find that there are lots of things that have sugar in them that I can completely eat in moderation (dark chocolate being one of them) and others that I really can't (cake and donuts). As for sugars in foods like fruit, they rarely seem to affect me in a way that affects moderation. So I really appreciate the discussion about what sugar IS in the first place.

I know other people are different, and I also know that the only way to figure out what our individual situation is IS to experiment. However, I do think we have to be careful about how we present our own experience. Sometimes when people tell me something is the best and only solution that I must try because it is THE answer, I experience what psychologists call reactance. I want to do the opposite!

Well, yes, I think one SHOULD experiment. But it's not as if I'm sticking a gun to someone's head and saying "do this or else" . I don't think what I've suggested as an experiment is so outrageous (lowering calories to 800, strictly eating cabbage soup all day, running 3 hours a day etc.), but mind you , I do know that it probably DOES sound *extreme* to some, but hopefully not in the same way. Hard to put my thoughts down in words here.

If you're on this site in the first place, I think one IS looking for support, encouragement, and *perhaps* - others experiences, feelings, and to find out what *has worked for them*,not necessarily to follow it certainly, but just to *hear* and this thread in particular - well, sugar DOES have it's own separate set of issues.

As for wanting to do the opposite, well, I have heard of people feeling this way, but ummmm, yeah, it kinda makes me think, "well, yeah - I'll show them, I wouldn't even consider doing it now - yeah, I'll show them." But to who's detriment???? But it is an individual thing.

I know it sounds insane to give up sugar cold turkey, I had heard for years it was the *way to go*, and I did resist it, but not in an "I'll show you kind of way", but in a "there's no way on earth I can do this" kind of way. But feeling as if it was my last resort, that it was do or die, I gave it a try and the results *for me* speak for themselves. I have no regrets. Not even a little bit. 165 lbs down for almost 3 years now, incredible doctors visits, self confidence, self worth, self respect, boundless energy, worry free nights, no headaches, no heartburn/reflux, GIGANTIC beautiful wardrobe, etc... Yeah, I've got no regrets.

But yes, it is an individual thing.

Like WarMaiden, I find that as I've cut down on sweets, "normal" things taste sweet to me (my 9 yo daughter gives me the "you're so weird, Mom" look when I talk about the sweetness of whole wheat bread). So I don't use much artificial sweetener, either. But before my taste buds changed, I drank a lot of diet soda, and found that sometimes it stalled my loss. Not sure if it was because of the chemicals, or because I wasn't counting calories at the time and other things were sneaking in. Cutting back on diet soda happened around the time I got tighter about tracking things, so it could have been either.

I think the most interesting thing in my journey has been the realization that sweets are not the most "binge-triggering" foods for me. Sure, I like sweets, but I'd much rather eat a whole loaf of fresh-from-the-oven bread, or a box of Cheez-its.

To me, baked goods are triggers much more than sweets. I can FEEL my physical and emotional reaction when I walk through the bakery section of the store and smell the bread. I've had the Dark Chocolate Chili bar from my Christmas stocking for months, eating one square every couple of weeks. I can do sweets in some moderation (if I weren't watching carbs due to blood glucose issues). But if I eat more than one slice of bread at a meal, the next meal I want more, and the next day all bets are off.

That's addiction.

Bingeing and weight loss aside, I think we're missing a very important issue here.....refined sugars and HFCS are not healthy! They do dangerous things in our bodies. They impact our children and their development. They are contributing to an epidemic of diabetes in our society. The cause inflammation within the body, heart disease and premature ageing. Seriously, what health benefit do they provide? Many of us know that we can retrain ourselves to taste the delicious sweetness in naturally sweet foods. Why do we need the added sugars? I don't think we need it at all. And, how much is safe? I'm not sure we even have that answer yet. So, until we do have the answers, do we play Russian roulette and take a chance? I guess that is a decision we all have to make for ourselves, right?

As in broccoli is sweet!! I was thinking about this last night. I was lamenting the fact that restaurants cover broccoli with salt and butter and I wondered why when broccoli is so naturally sweet! But I did not think that before cutting sugar out. Another sweet veggie is fried cabbage! Oh, I love the flavor a little canola oil brings out in cabbage. And onions?! Yup, I'm weird.

I think the best thing to do when we are presented with new information, is to really look within ourselves.

If you don't like desserts, always drink diet soda, and wouldn't dream of having sugary breakfast cereal, then maybe cutting out sugar isn't an issue for you. But if any of those things do apply to you, then maybe cutting out sugar would be good.

Of course, since we are all different, you will want to make sure you are healthy and ok before trying something that deals with adjusting your insulin levels----no sugar diet is great for me and keeps my insulin levels low, but for others with unknown diabetes problems, they may want to talk to their doctor first.

Here is a good example of our uniqueness as individuals-----

Some people do exceptionally well on a very high grain and veggie and fruit vegetarian diet. They tend to lose lots of weight and feel very energized.

Other people need a bit more protein, and do not tolerate the grains very well. they may look "puffy" or a bit bloated, though they think they are eating very well.

So, take everything on here with a grain of salt. I am not offended when someone raves about ww, because I know it just isn't the right thing for me.

And yet despite this being true, sugar (or carbohydrates in general) might still be an issue for you.

Because desserts, regular soda, and sugary cereals have never been very appealing to me (except during TOM/PMS when chocolate calls my name), I never dreamed that sugar or carbohydrates could be my problem.

It took me a very long time to realize that carbohydrates (and not just refined carbohydrates) are an issue for me, and that includes fruits, starchy vegetables and grains too.

I can pass up a candybar without much trouble (assuming it's not TOM), but don't get between me and barbecued ribs (in a very sweet, smokey sauce) or general tso's chicken. I'm a sweet-and-savory junkie.


Not everyone has a problem with sugar, but there are also many different kinds of sugar problems.

Of purely sweet foods, I do love fruit, and can easily overindulge (I once ate 3lbs of Ranier cherries in a single day).

But most of my trigger and binge foods are high starch or hidden sugar foods. Savory sauces that contain sugar, or high-starch foods that quickly break down into sugar after you eat them like breads, potatoes, and crackers.....

I understand the passion about the topic. It is like when you find out something that has so helped you, you want to share it with everybody, especially if you think they have the same issue. I have a loved one who has a problem with sugar and I wish they would try the whole omission of sugar, but instead they are trying moderation, and for some of us, certain foods just cannot be had in routine moderation as they lead us to binge or obsess over it. But I have to accept that they will do that on their own time and their own way. It does frustrate me, but I just have to learn how to be more encouraging, but less insistent about it. Plus, my weightloss hasn't been so great, so I am not a shining example of how one should eat.

So if one was to do this 30 days no sugar thing what do you eat? What do you not eat.
NO HFCS and nothing that has sugar in the first 3 or 4 ingredients. Would you still eat fruits? Some breads? Is it a low-carb thing?
Lay it out for me in black and white cause I am having a hard time imagining what I could eat.
Thanks!

Well, if you're looking for a very structured approach to doing this, I'd recommend trying out South Beach. On South Beach, you'd eliminate all refined sugars, all grains, and all fruit for a period of two weeks. Then you'd slowly add fruit and whole grains back into your diet and see whether any of that stuff triggers you. (South Beach does not include any refined sugars or refined grains during the weight loss period.) At the end of a period of careful experimentation and self-examination, you'd know whether or not whole grains and fruit were a problem for you, and you'd have a VERY healthy foundation for your diet.

If you'd like to take a non-structured approach, then I'd recommend simply cutting out all foods that contain refined sugars and refined grains and see what happens. More than likely you'll go through a period of a few days of adjustment in which you may feel lethargic, irritable, carb-craving, and headachey. (These symptoms can be alleviated by eating some good carbs such as dairy or beans.) But after you adjust, you'll find that you feel really remarkably different and better.

To give you an example of stuff I eat in my non-sugar diet, here's stuff I'm eating today and yesterday:

* Vegetables: Brussels sprouts, broccoli, spinach, carrots, tomatoes, romaine lettuce, red pepper, yam, avocado, salsa.

* Fresh and dried fruit, in very controlled quantities: Blueberries, mango, grapefruit, cherries, dried figs.

* Nuts in small quantities: Almonds, peanut butter, ground flax seed.

* Meat: Pork chop, chicken breast, ground turkey, eggs.

* Dairy: Yogurt, cottage cheese, feta cheese, milk.

* Beverages: Water, unsweetened tea of various kinds.

On a daily basis, I don't eat any grains, but I do include some grains in my diet during the weekend. Usually that's the whole wheat bread that I make at home.

I stopped at KFC for dinner last night and asked for honey for my biscuit. I was thinking about this thread and the forms sugar takes when I looked down and discovered what used to be a packet of honey is now a packet of "honey sauce." I flipped it over and found that the first ingredient is......HFCS. WTH? Why couldn't they just leave it pure honey?

HFCS is incredibly cheap, due to government subsides, as mandalinn posted above. Honey is not cheap. It's a pretty easy equation for a big business whose customers are not very likely to be interested in evaulating the actual content of their food.

That being said, HFCS is not necessarily any worse for you than honey or sucrose. If you eat any sweetener in the quantities likely to be a problem, you're going to have a problem. Switching out HFCS for sucrose (as the soda companies are doing lately) won't help a public that's drinking, on average...I can't remember the exact number, but isn't it something like 3 12-oz sodas per day?