Thanks for the welcome, everybody. :hug:

Hey everyone! :wave: Welcome Skyra!

Just checking in to say "Hi." It's been a while! I'm still IEing, just haven't felt much like posting, lots going on here.

I think one of the things I love about IE (and can finally say) is that even when I'm not actively participating in the thread, I'm still eating intuitively. So when I do return to the thread I don't feel like "I've fallen off the wagon" and have been "cheating" or have been a "bad girl." No need for guilt or shame! No new resolve to "do better this time." That feels good!


.

So -- I'm sure this has been brought up before but there are SO many pages, it's kind of overwhelming to sift through. So I'm going to ask here.

I'm still being pretty good about eating when I'm hungry and stopping when I'm full -- there are just still so many guilt feelings of "you should have eaten that healthier thing instead, the food you ate has more calories". How do you break that mental habit?

Skyra, I think part of it is reading different books about intuitive or mindful or "normal" eating, as different authors explain things differently, some will hit home with you more than others.

Also, I think it just takes time!

I just keep reading and keep practicing. If you really know why you believe your choices are ok, then you mostly just need time and practice. If you sorta know why your choices are ok, but you waffle and have mental arguments with yourself, focus on more reading.

Also, it can be hard to let those feelings go if you're still, for example, reading a lot of posts in some areas of this forum that are built on the feelings you're trying to put to rest. Sometimes you may be able to read and take what works and leave the rest. Other times, you may realize you need stop filling your mind with the very kinds of talk you're trying to let go. It's kind of like one alcoholic who may need to entirely avoid situations in which any one is drinking, while another may enjoy the company of others who may be having a glass of wine with dinner, and yet a frat party or happy hour at the local bar is not likely to "ok" with either of them.

This article is from Maggie Miller at Eat When You're Hungry.

A few weeks ago, a producer at WCBS-TV in New York contacted me to discuss a story she was working on about orthorexia. At the conclusion of what turned out to be a two-hour whirlwind of camera tests, lighting adjustments and a wonderful interview about a subject near and dear to my heart, the producer asked me a telling question.

“I know you probably eat very healthfully most of the time, but do you ever, you know, stop at a fast food restaurant on the turnpike,” she asked? “And if you do, do you feel guilty about it?”

Her question made me smile because it reminded me that despite my standing on a soapbox at every opportunity I find to preach “Stop Dieting!” “Stop Labeling Foods as Good or Bad!” people still assume I eat an “extremely healthy diet,” whatever that means to each person who makes the assumption.

My answer to the producer’s question was a resounding, “YES!”…and “NO!”

“Yes, I eat fast food occasionally, and NO I don’t feel guilty about it,” I told her passionately. “My husband and I – and now our baby – drive up to Lake Tahoe fairly regularly and we always stop at In ‘N Out, Wendy’s or whatever other fast food restaurant is available when hunger strikes.

To be clear, I care about health and wellbeing. I’m a trained wellness coach, after all, and as I’ve written in my book, I have genetically high cholesterol (when I went vegan for six months many years ago in an attempt to bring it down, my cholesterol actually went up), that I must monitor and ultimately treat.

Having a baby has also made me care about my health more than I have at any other time in my life because I want to be there every step of the way for my girl – on the sidelines at soccer games, from the front row of piano recitals and on the sofa at home when tears pour out of a broken heart.

However, I believe very strongly that emotional, spiritual and psychological health are just as important as physical health. You can have the healthiest diet in the world and be quite unhealthy (case in point: orthorexia). To the contrary, we’ve all watched interviews with enthusiastic 103-year-olds who gloat that one of their secrets to living so long was enjoying a bowl of ice cream every day.

Given my focus on eating real food in lieu of “food products” filled with chemicals, I can understand the assumption that I eat quite healthfully much of the time, and yes, I guess that’s actually true. But I also eat foods that have no (or very little) nutritional value whatsoever. I enjoy the tastes that dance around my mouth as I eat these foods (I’m still talking about the peanut-butter cookie dough ice cream I discovered at Ben & Jerry’s over a month ago). Sometimes these foods make my body feel good, and sometimes they don’t.

Saturday, for instance, on vacation in Palm Desert, I started the day with a big bowl of oatmeal and coffee, which I enjoyed thoroughly. At lunch I ordered a chicken sandwich, French fries and a salad from the poolside cafe. The food at lunch was marginal, but I was hungry, so I ate quite a bit of the salad (it was the best part of the meal) and all of the chicken. I skipped the bun because I didn’t like it at all, and that left room for me to eat all of my French fries, which I did. Feeling unsatisfied after this meal, I changed the flavor in my mouth by chewing a sugary piece of watermelon-flavored gum a friend of mine offered me back at the pool.

Did I enjoy my lunch? No, not particularly. Did I enjoy the company of my family as I ate it? Absolutely. Did I feel sad that I didn’t have a sybaritic meal? Yes, a little bit. Did I feel guilty about the French fries? Not in the least. Was I looking forward to preparing homemade lunches when I returned from vacation? Yes, though I knew I’d miss the desert air I enjoyed so much over the weekend.

Life is about choices, and I chose many years ago to let go of the guilt I used to feel about food. I never thought that would be possible so many years ago when I struggled through orthorexic behaviors, and it took many years to fully let it go. But I can honestly tell you now that my guilt about food is gone.

When I eat ice cream I enjoy every bite, without a dollop of guilt on top.

I tell you this both as a way to address the assumption about my “healthy eating” and to celebrate full recovery from disordered eating. I am living, breathing proof that the saying “once an eating disorder always an eating disorder” is not true. You can heal from encaging food thoughts and behaviors.

Carol, I read that the other day and was going to post a link to it. I thought it was another great post.

Thank you so much, Carol! Great article! And, I needed it after I just ate a midnight snack of leftover pizza.

P.S. I bought some new jeans today in a smaller size. I knew my old jeans were getting too loose, but I didn't know I would be able to go down a size. I'm thrilled!

The Overfed Head by Rob Stevens is another book that is IE and to the point.

I can relate with the gentle nutrition chapter problems. I'll never give up my honey sweetened full fat Greek yogurt, but, I don't eat the whole container either. I love Geneen Roth! I'm rereading IE the book. I'm still exercising two or three times a week with my trainer, and really enjoying it. I plan to look up size acceptance on google, and see what kind of blogs they have. I need to come to terms with my size, and really get that the weight gain from the meds isn't my fault, which I'm struggling with. Overall, I put way too much emphasis on my physical appearance, and neglect other areas, like my music and relationships, and how much I love my daughter and many pets. I am alwys fighting the temptation to restrict, even though I know it will lead to a binge, I guess it goes back to punishing yourself for being overweight. I have some comfortable clothes that actually fit, and routinely eat food I like. My Bf's a great cook, and believes in eating real food. So, overall, I'm pleased with my IE progress.
Amie

Thanks, again, Carol! I looked up the book and read the first chapter and I need to have that book now. Anyone who wants to can read the first chapter. It was very good, and written by someone who has done it and understands what it is like.

Amie, I understand how you feel about appearance. I'm struggling with that, too. Right now, I'm trying not to bust my bubble. Usually when I get to feeling good about my appearance, something will upset me back into beating myself up. I will see a picture of myself, or my reflection in a full length mirror, and then the self-loathing comes back. Right now, I'm trying to stay in the bubble. Want to stay here with me? lol

Candes, I'll take a seat in tat bubble. It's said that between 70 and 90 percent of what we say to ourselves is negative. Diets reinforce everything bad I've ever thought about myself, when dieting, I waited for that magic day when I'd be the right size. I was there for a few months, and, I still wasn't happy, in fact, I don't remember ever feeling so empty. I worked so hard for something that didn't make me happy. I've been much happier singing jazz with my best friend backing me up, to a small but appreciative audience, or having my boyfriend read me a favorite book, or drinking tea, while listening to Benny Carter records and petting my cat.
Amie

:bubbles:

Here we go. This is our bubble(s). lol I'm not going to let the outside get in and ruin this for me again. I want to feel good about how I look right now, and it will help me feel good at any weight. I'm trying my best to keep a positive attitude. I suppose if I could get it down to 50% that would be an improvement over 70-90.

Welcome to all our newcomers! I look forward to reading what you have to say. :)

CandEs, yay on the jeans! :bravo: I'm glad you're happy. :)

I've been hanging out and holding on. Fighting this battle against old voices and old habits is hard, let me tell you! I made the mistake of reading an article on the differences between omega-3 and omega-6 fats and THEN reading the new Shape magazine that came on the mail, and that threw me right back in to "good food/bad food" "have to make perfect choices" thinking. I've been fighting my eating behaviours for days. Add that to the fact that it's been over a weekend (and spending more time with my hubby) and it hasn't been pretty. (Full disclosure: I love the man dearly, but we've had some rough times in the past and those have reinforced in me that it's best to keep my feelings to myself and deal with them privately any way I must [ie with food]. We are overcoming that but it's a long, hard relearning of old lessons.) So anyway. Journal is sitting on the couch beside me and I'm off to write things out, but I thought I'd stop in and touch bases before I did.

Still here, still trying! ;)

Sidhe, I have a little of that keeping your feelings to yourself, too. My Dh and I are so opposite. He is constantly working, never resting and seem that's all I do. I have been tired a lot with a chronic disease since age 28 and also had ten kids so maybe tired is ok. When I'm tired I rest. He pushes himself. So I sometimes can't express to him exactly how I feel. But I'm sure my weight problem is from years of dieting and even fasting. I look back and think if I had just known about IE years ago........ahhhhhhhh. But at least I finally found it and as far as I'm concerned it is the way God made us....hunger and satisfaction........so simple.

Good morning! Just wanted to say hello!! I recently joined the board and this is my first post!! I know IE is the way to go. But it's a struggle to let go of the old ways and to deal with my emotions. Especially since our lives have been in upheavel for the past two months. I'm out of work and haven't been able to find a job. But I know the Lord will provide in His timing and not mine. I'm reading Thin Within now and I would like to get a copy of intuitive eating and read it again. I read it several years ago, but I need to refresh. Looking forward to getting to know you all!

Blessings,
Lenise

Welcome, amazinggrace! I'm so excited about all the new folks lately :D

I know it's a little overdue, but to everyone who responded to my questions, thanks for responding :D

Sidhe, thanks for the jeans compliment! I'm sorry you've been having trouble lately. Hope things get better soon. I find writing it down does help.

Carol, I think you know my husband. He is constantly doing, too. Even on the weekend. I feel lazy compared to him. You have every right to be tired with ten children. I have 2 and that is as much as I can handle. My weight has kept me from having more. I had gestational diabetes with my youngest and I don't want to go through that again.

Hello, amazing grace, and welcome! :welcome2: I, too, am looking for a job. It's tough out there, I know.

Skyra, you're welcome. How are you doing?

Well, I'm still plugging away. I've realized I cannot eat pizza without some physical distress, so I may need to stay away from it for awhile. Still haven't eaten breakfast today because I don't know what I want. I need to decide soon, though. Lots to do this week! Halloween party for my youngest son's class, soccer tournament for oldest son, trick-or-treating, and youngest son's birthday party on Sunday. Good grief! The great thing about IE though, is I will have some candy and cake, and not feel guilty that I'm cheating on my "diet."

Welcome Amazinggrace. Sounds like your are getting the hang of it, CandE. A little tired today and have to go to a funeral. A young man, 25, from our small town took his life. Everyone is in shock. So sad.

Oh, Carol, I'm so sorry. That is so sad when a young person, or any person, takes his life.

:hug:

Very frustrating day! The diet mentality is rampant around this holiday! I'm holding steady, though.

Happy Halloween everybody!!!

:haphal:

Just wanted to pop in and say that this is my first time reading this thread - and I'm really appreciating a lot of what you all have to say! Thanks so much for a fresh perspective on food. I'll have to plop down for a while and give this thread a good read through and find out how I can apply these principals in my own daily and weekly routines. :)

Good evening!!! Today was a pretty good day!! I didn't overeat and I'm not going to have anything else tonight!!!! Evenings are my worst time cause I just want to snack. I'm starting to pay attention to hunger signals, though today I just cut back the amount of food a lot. I know this is going to take time. I've got to stop wanting a quick fix. It didn't come on quickly, and I don't want it to come off quickly because I want it to stay off permanently!! Have a wonderful weekend! Only eat that candy if you're hungry!!

Blessings, Lenise

Welcome Bluedande and, yes, Lenise it does come off slowly and except for seasnoal variations, it doesn't come back.

Oh Carol, I'm so sorry. :hug:

Welcome, bluedande! Hope you find what you're looking for here, a nd feel free to ask questions and contribute anytime. :)

Amazinggrace (my FAVORITE hymn, always makes me cry!)--Sounds like you're right on the money. This isn't about drastic, dramatic changes all at once. This is a gradual process that shows respect and care for your body. I'm so glad you care enough about yourself to do that. :)

Everyone: I've had some sort of virus for a couple of days (not swine flu!) so I've been laying low. I must admit that when I realized I was sick my first thought was, "great, maybe I'll lose a couple of pounds." But I stopped myself on that really quick, and I've been focusing on really giving my body what it needs to fight this and heal itself. Which means half of yesterday all I wanted to do was sleep and drink water, so I did that!

I've also been poking around on the internet looking for IE/demand eating stuff, and I've found a few great resources. I can post links because I'm old as dirt, so here you go:

First check out Kate Harding et al, at Shapely Prose. She's a militant feminist (which can get kind of irritating, honestly) but she has some posts regarding IE that are utterly fantastic. The archives are well worth exploring.

Try Stumbling Toward Ecstasy to address an interesting issue we've talked about in the past: the difference between "eat what you want" and "go hog wild".

Also, when you're ready to delve more into the emotional side of things, read The Fantasy of Being Thin. This one really got to me the first time I read it (a couple of years ago), and I've read it several times since. It makes you stop and think about what you're REALLY doing this for. And some of those answers (at least for me!) were not pretty. :^:

Another blog worth reading is Good With Cheese. Now, she stopped writing this particular blog in 2008, but I'm going back and reading the entries from the beginning. I feel like I could have written them myself, honestly. (Except for the "being a size 4" part. Nope, never been there--my bones aren't that small!!) Since I'm reading Good With Cheese I have not started on her newest blog yet, but there's a link in the last post to the new one if you're interested.

Also check out this very interesting article on self-love and self-acceptance and how that tends to correlate with healthy food behaviors. (Think we're coming at it from the wrong angle, trying to deal with the food thing first? Treating a symptom and not the disease, as it were?) This, also, is an interesting read.

I'm off to lie down again, chickies. I hope everyone is well. :hug:

Wow, Sidhe, that should keep me busy for awhile. Thanks a lot for all the links.

Wow, that was a most excellent post. Very relevant to discussions we've had. I kinda wish others on 3FC could be required to read it before making weird comment about mindful eating.

Thanks for the links! I'm going to go look through them now. I waited on hunger but overate at dinnertime. Not nearly as bad as I usually do, but I ate past what I should. It's such a good feeling to know I don't have to eat all the time. There are much more interesting things to do!!

Lenise

I'm really excited!!! This is really working for me!!! I've been wearing a size 24 jeans. I tried on some size 22's that are brand new that I never got to wear and they fit perfect. I wore them today. I even got into some 20's but they are to tight. I know I have a long way to go but I feel perfectly confident that I can do this. I love this way of eating.

I'm still reading Thin Within. I had to do a little thing the other day where you stand in the mirror and look at yourself naked without being critical of yourself. I had to say only good things about myself and realize what a blessing my body is. It was a little difficult at first but I did find out that I have a nice Butt!!! :) My husband compliments me on this but I never took the time to look at it myself. LOL!!!

How exciting for you, Natoshial! It sounds like you're really listening to what your body needs. Are you feeling more energetic, sleeping better, feeling more awake during the day...? :)

I am still sick in a feel-fine-while-I'm-down-but-fall-over-when-I-get-up sort of way. I woke up this morning and intensely wanted an orange. I mean, I was dreaming about eating oranges when I woke up! So I got up and peeled/sectioned one, and came through to sit down with my laptop. I've eaten maybe 2/3 of it, and now I'm content. Gee, you think desperately wanting a food that's rich in vitamin C has anything to do with being sick? :lol: Yay for listening to my body! If that's not IE, I don't know what is. :)

Question: does anyone else feel increasingly uncomfortable reading other parts of the forum? I've been around for years under various names (I actually was here before there were any separate forums, waaaaay back when the website first opened) and I've poked my way around most of the subforums. I've noticed, though, that I feel increasingly uncomfortable with the struggle, self-hatred, and self-flaggelation that I'm reading. "This weekend was a failure" "so am I really a failure?" "Managed to pass up my birthday cake!" and all those other sorts of posts are making me really uncomfortable. Is that happening for anyone else, or am I just being too sensitive? :^:

sidhe, I used to respond to more of those "I'm a failure" or "I'm so gross" posts, but I have a hard time with patience with those anymore. So that's more a concern for the poster than for me. I guess it depends on my mood.

The posts that bother me more personally are the ones along the lines of "I had a whole cup of cherries yesterday, but I only planned for a half cup. I have *got* to get back on track!"

It's touchy, because different things work for different people at different times, including me. I try to assume that if I'm irritated, it means *I* have an issue. That's not always true, but it's a good place for me to start, because I can be a little too critical sometimes.

Well, I don't know. I'm having a hard time looking at anything other than here or "General Chatter." I just can't relate to any of the diets and sometimes I am just sad for the person posting. It's disturbing for me to hear how someone passed up their birthday cake or something else when it was a special occasion. So it is better for me and for them that I don't read them. I don't want to discourage them, and I don't want them to influence me.

amazinggrace, it will get better with time, and yes, it is good to know there is life outside of food. :)

Thanks for the links, Sidhe. I've been looking at them as I have time.

Congrats, Natoshial (I love your name, BTW). It's a great feeling to know that this is working. I saw a friend of mine today that I had not seen in awhile, and she asked me how much weight have I lost! No one had asked me that yet. Then, a little while later my DH's step-mom asked the same thing. I guess it is finally starting to show.

Isn't that great when people start to notice. I've been disappointed in some of the IE letters I get from email. They are now more likely to ask for money. They want you to join this or that. But I guess that is what the internet is about. So when I see they want money I just press delete. I don't read much on other threads except for one girl who was on prednisone like me when I first joined. She hasn't posted for a month and she has lots of health problems. It worries me some. She lost a lot of weight while taking prednisone which is really something.

Good morning, all. I'm 99% better, yay! Still a bit tired, but honestly I think that has more to do with the time change and with my own personal sleeping patterns than with being sick. So I'll pick up and move on. :)

I've been doing a LOT of reading and a lot of journaling these last 3 days, and I've realized some things. The first thing is that I've been engaged in a LOT of last-supper eating: I've been eating things that I've previously banned, whether I feel good eating them or not, simply because I've banned them in the past.

Cake. Ahhhh, cake. Now, I LOOOOOVE cake. :love: But unless I make gluten-free cake, I swell up like a toad and ache for a good few hours after I eat it. But that hasn't been stopping me. I've been buying myself cake and eating my cake and hoarding my cake and ignoring what my body is telling me because I CAN HAVE CAKE IF I WANT TO, dammit. ;) I've had the same slice of carrot cake in the fridge for the last 4 days, though, and I've been aware of it but not eaten it for all of those 4 days. I finally sat down with my journal and wrote it all out to myself: my anger that cake does this to me, my frustration with not getting to have what I want without consequences, my resentment of people who could eat cake without those same consequences...and finally my acceptance that MY BODY doesn't like cake, and every time I eat it I'm making the choice to hurt myself. OUCH. :^:

I am going to try to remember that when I consider having cake next time. I can totally choose to have it, of course, but the reality is that choice is also a choice to hurt my body. If I attempt to "ban" cake then I get the immediate backlash of replacement-eating and defiant-eating, and I really don't want to do that to myself mentally. So cake is still on the list of foods I can eat (as is everything), but I've taken a really hard look at what it does to me and I'm hoping I will choose to eat it less and less.

I've also noticed that I have "opinions" (judgments) about every single thing I eat except vegetables. I have little 'statements' running through my brain about every single thing I eat and it's really, really tiresome. Too much fat, not whole grain, not enough vegetables, probably too much protein, wrong kind of fat, wrong kind of protein, :blah: :blah: :blah:. So a lot of my eating decisions (well, pretty much all of them, to be honest) have been affected by last-supper eating. I've been eating a LOT of things that I had previously banned for one reason or another. I've been patient about it and trusted that I would come to a point where I could address it, and I have.

In all honesty I don't feel good eating some of those things, and I'm ready to admit that. I was eating them just because they'd been banned, and it felt so good emotionally to break out of those prohibitions. But physically I've been rundown, and I guess getting sick is what it took to bring that home! So everything is, like cake, staying on the list of foods I CAN have if I want them, but I've also faced the consequences and accepted that MY body doesn't feel as good as it could when I eat them.

Two steps forward and one step back, right? I know I've written about all of those before, but I'm going through it again. I've been dieting or living with judgment of my body since I was 8 years old, and it's taking a lot of work to unlearn what was drummed in so hard. I know this was long, if anyone needs me to stop sharing feel free to say so. :^:

Sidhe, I think this is what makes IE so hard. It is really difficult to break out of that pattern of "good" vs. "bad." Just knowing you can have them if you want to, but that you don't have to have them is what helps me get through it. You don't have to hoard or hide or binge. It will always be there. :hug:

Carol, yes, I'm very pleased that people have started to notice and ask me what I am doing. I try to explain in general terms.

Well, I am wiped out. Had a loooong weekend, and now I am sick with a cold. I spent the day shopping with a friend and trying to pretend I wasn't sick. She knew something was wrong with me because she gave me some Sudafed. lol She wants to go again tomorrow. I don't see her too often (she works a lot), so it's hard to refuse.

It's hard to judge how my body is responding to food when I'm still a bit sick. :dizzy: So I'm trying to just eat fresh stuff, if my body needs food. :dizzy:

Listening to your body is a good thing. But I know exactly about the cake thing. I was like that, too, and now cake is, well, just cake. But this is a really slow process and requires lots of patience.

It's been kind of interesting. I've barely eaten some of my dinners lately, even though I was a bit hungry when I started, because I got full quickly. If I were dieting, I'd have eaten *more* because I'd have planned myself a portion, and would have eaten according to my plan. I've discovered lately that dark leafy greens with a real vinaigrette really fill me up!

Isn't that that the truth, Julie.

Hi everyone! :wave:

Sidhe, glad you're feeling better ... CandEs, hope you feel better soon!

Natoshile, glad you are doing well with IE!

Welcome "Blue!" :D

I'm still struggling. It hasn't been easy. I'm trying really hard to reassess some things in my life. Get myself out of this funk. I don't want to go the diet route. I'm done with diets. But I need a plan. Something. I agree, sidhe, we do need to learn to love ourselves and respect ourselves otherwise, weight loss is just a band aid to the real problems. Thanks for those links I'll be checking them out.

Well, anyhow, I just wanted to pop in and say "Hi." I miss interacting with everyone. I hope I can get back in the swing of things soon.

Have a great one! :sunny: