Hi mjf. Welcome to the Diabetes Thread. Do you have Diabetes? What was your latest A1c? How do you manage your blood sugar? Why don't you tell us more about yourself, so we can get to know you.
Are you a medical professional, or a nutritionist? I was wondering what are your credentials that have provided you with the opportunity to research so many studies regarding different health/nutrition issues. I have researched many issues that apply to me and have become very knowledgeable about my own conditions. And by the way, I don't click on unknown links, especially when they are coming out of the blue from someone I don't know and I advise others not to do it either.
Hoping to hear more about your background.
No, I don't have diabetes. My A1c was tested last month and it's within the normal range (5.0).
I'm not an expert, but I often read research papers in my spare time.
I don't expect you to trust me based on my credentials. I encourage everyone to do their own research. I cited my sources, so you can look at the original source and decide for yourself how to interpret the study, based on how the study was designed, who performed the study, etc. Not all studies are well designed, and different studies may have different results, so different people might reach different conclusions after examining the evidence.
PubMed is a well-known database, maintained by the National Center for Biotechnology Information, where you can find many scientific research papers related to health and medicine. If you don't trust my link, you can read about PubMed on Wikipedia.
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If you were diabetic you would understand that there is no.one way to treat it. No eating plan that works for all, thus the glucose meter, but thanks anyway.
Last edited by Wannabehealthy; 05-20-2019 at 07:27 PM.
If you were diabetic you would understand that there is no.one way to treat it. No eating plan that works for all, thus the glucose meter, but thanks anyway.
I understand that. That's why I posted about a treatment method. I realize that it's not the only treatment, and may not work for everyone, but I think it's good to know your options.
Even someone who's very knowledgeable might be unfamiliar with certain treatments. New research is published every year, so there's always more to learn. I'm trying to learn more about diabetes so I can minimize my risk of getting it in the future.
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The medical community has been wrong about the treatment of type 2 diabetes for years. It is not the same as type 1. Some doctors are realizing where they are wrong and changing their treatments. Even the ADA has recently agreed that low carb eating plays a part. Not every diabetic can eat grains other than maybe very small portions. Some not at all. Not all can eat high fiber. Some can eat fruit, others cannot.
On this thread, we offer suggestions but allow each to find the way that works best for them. I welcome you to join in our discussions but ask that you keep an open mind and not insist that your studies and research are the only way.
FBG this morning was 130. Weight down to 213.4. Sleep has a lot to do with my FBG and I only got 6 hrs because I wanted to get up and try to see company off this morning. So I'll be ready for a nap in a little while hopefully I'll get one before we go see Daddy today.
I drank my cup of coffee with Stevia and H&H and then instead of drinking another cup, I had a cup of plain green tea. 2 hrs later bs reading was 118. I didn't get to check my bs before going to eat at Cracker Barrel, however, I did want to check it 2 after just for the experiment I'm doing. I ate the fried catfish and green beans that I always eat when I go there for lunch or supper. Then I decided to switch it up and I had serving of corn, 1 cornbread muffin with butter (I think they use margarine) and then as I always do, I had bites of the dumplings DH always gets. I have to say that I always have lemon water with sweetener and the had Splenda so I used it. 2 hrs later my bs reading was 132. I checked bs just before we left but it was 123 because I had eaten a couple of beef sticks because we had waited so late to eat because they ate lunch at 1 o'clock. So 2 a rise toe 132 wasn't too bad 2 hrs after. It is interesting to me that my weight dropped 1.2 lbs from yesterday. While my FBG wasn't really bad for me, I really think if I had gotten 7 or 8 hrs sleep that it would have been lower.
Today I ate 1 slice of PB toast and waiting to check it around 1pm. to check to see how it affected my bs. I will continue doing this for a while and get back to reading the book. I am a routine person any way so I plan to do this with all the foods we eat and then I will make of list of the foods that are more bs friendly start preparing meal plans from that list. I am beginning to see that I can not only eat some of the foods that I thought I couldn't and enjoy them.
Carol, remembering that book you and I have on Magic Foods to lower bs from Reader's Digest (can't remember title right now), that said that some foods like veggies combined with other carbs actually offsets the carbs which is making me wonder how much the combination of carb with protein plays with these results I'm having. I have noticed that some foods seem to cause my bs to come down rather than spike. So It can't be just because it is multigrain etc because in this book I'm reading now they have learned that it higher fiber doesn't seem to make a difference. One of the doctors would never eat anything but a certain whole grain bread because it was supposed to be healthier. He was shocked when tested himself and learned the opposite . It really drives home the reason one person can follow one diet and lose weight etc and it doesn't work that way for someone else. It all comes down to how each individual body responds to it thus the name The Personalized Diet. Some people could eat regular white bread and some couldn't. Amazing info.
I'm also wondering about your friend who keeps her A1c normal because she eats whatever she wants but small quantities. I think you said even her meals are more like snacks. Interesting.
Hope everybody has a good day.
Last edited by pattygirl63; 05-21-2019 at 01:56 PM.
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Trish my friend is a big sugar junky but has really cut back since her diabetes diagnosis. She would live on cookies if she could. She does not cook. Eats mostly processed foods but counts carbs and keeps them in the 50-60 range. Her recent A1c was 6.1, up from 5.9. She is upset and i know she will get it back down. She can be rigid when she makes up her mind.
I just made an appointment with my PCP for my pain issues. I can't get in until June 7th. Heaven only knows what could happen by then. No pain for the past couple days. It was funny because the girl asked me "which foot" and I said "it goes back and forth between the two." LOL
Last edited by Wannabehealthy; 05-21-2019 at 03:59 PM.
Carol Sue I have pretty much gotten away from eating sugar or sugary foods. I know it is in some foods, but I don't purposely eat it. Didn't check bs after dinner. I told DH that I wanted to just go see Daddy and go get something to bring home to eat and then crash. I've been too tired. We got McD's double cheeseburgers and fries. I don't usually eat a lot of fries but I wanted them today. I did like I usually do and put the bun down the disposal and used the SLMG 45 calorie bread. I did finish my meal with yogurt with berries. I was too full. As I finished it, I began to think that maybe I should do like your friend and divide my meals/snacks up and make them more like small snacks. I'm thinking that when I eat big meals that it causes my bs to spike more. I guess I should have checked it.
We went to see Daddy and he was fine. He loves to talk to DH about airplanes and WW2 so things are better when DH goes with me. He seemed to be perfectly fine, but then he had been to Walmart and is happy when he gets to go. His phone was completely did. So we stayed long enough so that I could charge it enough so I could get it working again. It is causing a lot of problems for him so I will be glad when DS goes to her DD and gets the new phone for Daddy.
The medical community has been wrong about the treatment of type 2 diabetes for years. It is not the same as type 1. Some doctors are realizing where they are wrong and changing their treatments. Even the ADA has recently agreed that low carb eating plays a part. Not every diabetic can eat grains other than maybe very small portions. Some not at all. Not all can eat high fiber. Some can eat fruit, others cannot.
On this thread, we offer suggestions but allow each to find the way that works best for them. I welcome you to join in our discussions but ask that you keep an open mind and not insist that your studies and research are the only way.
It seems we agree with each other that different diets work better for different people. ADA seems to agree as well:
"Evidence suggests that there is not an ideal percentage of calories from carbohydrate, protein, and fat for all people with diabetes." (source)
They say that a low-carb diet "may result in improved glycemia", but they recommend other diets as well (Mediterranean, DASH, and plant-based).
As an individual, if you pick a study and follow the diet, there's no guarantee that it'll work. You need to figure out what works for you.
Nonetheless, research is very important, because it gives you data for a large group of people.
ADA's guidelines are based on research, for example they have 3 citations that show good results for a low-carb diet.
One of ADA's citations, this meta-analysis, found that low-carb diets produce a greater short-term reduction of HbA1c, but they found no significant difference in the long term. However, none of the 3 citations do any comparisons to vegan diets.
This randomized controlled study, with 99 participants, directly compares vegan vs. non-vegan, but neither group was low-carb. The vegan group ate 75% carbs. The non-vegan group followed the 2003 ADA guidelines, and ate 60-70% carbs. The vegan group had lower HbA1c after 74 weeks. I'm not aware of any studies that directly compare high-carb vegan vs. low-carb, or high-carb vegan vs. more recent ADA guidelines, but I hope to see more research in the future. Again, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that vegan diets are for everyone. I'm just posting about research that I think you'd find interesting.
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Trish, larger meals spike BS for me, too. I am good at cutting back sometimes but not other times. It's a bad habit for me that I have to work on. I can eat most foods but have to watch portions.
My friend only eats 3 meals a day but they are more like snacks. Cereal for breakfast, cottage cheese or yogurt for lunch. Salad for dinner. She
snacks on cookies or pretzels in the evenings but limits portions now. No IF. I think her calories are quite low.
DH got a new phone. He hardly ever uses his phone but he likes to use it on speaker and the speaker on the old phone was garbled. Do you have a landline? We still do, so that's why we don't use our cell phones very much. I use mine mostly for texting and DH doesn't even turn his on unless he's out. He never texts. His brother tells him his phone is from the 1940s. LOL
Last edited by Wannabehealthy; 05-22-2019 at 12:27 PM.
Carol Sue We have one cell and a land phone. We don't use the land phone much but have it so that when DH DD and her family and our DGS who still lives in SC calls, we both can be on the phone at the same time. DH never uses the cell phone because he doesn't like it. I would love for him to have one for when we aren't together. The day I couldn't find him and didn't know what BIL truck looked like, it would have been nice for getting in touch with him so he wouldn't have gotten lost.
I've spent the morning reading The Personalized Diet. They explained a lot of the research out there and how they actually work and why you can trust some and some you can't. They said there are tests that shows that both low carb diets and low fat diets work for some people but not others. However, they said most of them do not always have long term success. One of the doctors says that so far using the glucose meter to learn what foods raised, lowered or had no effect on his foods has been successful for 3 yrs at the time of the writing of this book, however, he said it is too soon to see if it has a longer success rate and that they are always learning more and more. The one thing he does site so far is the connection of sugar and cancer.
Today I drank a cup of coffee with Stevia and H&H and checked 2 hrs later and blood sugar was down to 126 from FBG of 130. I also had a good nights sleep of 8 hrs. Haven't eaten anything so far today because I haven't been hungry plus I decided that if my FBG is higher than 100 to 110 that I probably don't need to eat until it comes back down. Just my own theory. I get the idea from what I am reading what I always believed is true. If I can get the bs back down to normal that the weight will also come back down. It is worth trying to find out. I remember reading about a man who said just eat toward you meter.
Today I'm cooking chicken tenders with gravy no breading, and we will have salad and veggies. I will take a slice of cheddar cheese and cut into 8 pieces and heat to crispiness to take the place of crackers to go with my salad. Probably will end meal with 4 oz of yogurt. I may have a slice of SLMG 45 cal bread with the gravy. Not sure about eating fruit. I don't want to be stuffed.
I will check my bs 2 or 3 hrs after the meal. My bs reading before the cheese burger yesterday was 101. I plan to have cottage cheese with 1/4 of an avocado this evening. Working on one meal and a snack kind of day today. Not low carb or low fat just eat small amount of whatever I want to eat once a day. And then a small snack later in the evening since I stay up late with DH now that should work well. My theory is if eating that way works on CAD/CALP then it should work Intuitively decided by when hungry and not time along with Intermittent Fasting too. This will also fit nicely into my lifestyle. I will continue testing foods along the way and will try to remember to check the bs before and after cottage cheese and avocado mixture tonight.
One of the doctors says that so far using the glucose meter to learn what foods raised, lowered or had no effect on his foods has been successful for 3 yrs at the time of the writing of this book, however, he said it is too soon to see if it has a longer success rate and that they are always learning more and more. The one thing he does site so far is the connection of sugar and cancer.
Which studies does the book cite? I'm interested in reading them.
HI friends: I got in late Monday, and have been busy since. I have read many of the posts to catch up, but my usual reading time is in the morning, and I have been leaving early for work, so not as much time as usual to spend here.
Weight today is 148. I am trying hard to get down below 150, I have been there a good long while, and get back there easily if I go up a bit, but I think its a "set point" now and I have had trouble losing from there. I am not horribly worried, my weight is only slightly overweight now on BMI charts, and I am pretty happy with my body, but want to shed then next 10 pounds this summer.
I think my concern with vegan diets is the same for many eating plans, its too restrictive. I was a vegatarian for about 7 years, and a vegan for the last two years of that. There are many (valid) concerns about nutritional deficiencies, especially B12, that are not easy to help with supplements, Except for B12 injections, B12 oral supplements don't do the job as well. (and no, I am not going to link to studies, too much work before 7 am, LOL) Its too hard for people to be careful, for instance, if eating cake at a party, to avoid animal fats and proteins. (eggs, dairy in the cake etc). And so far, not many of our friends will be comfortable with vegan cooking. I still am, and am happy to cater to my guests, but that goes back to my history as a vegan and comfort with some of the "alternative" foods used in good vegan cooking.
Eating socially is a part of who we are as humans. Its important for our mental health too.
I am happy to have found a WOE that is working, but is flexible enough to lets me enjoy sharing meals with others. This week I am moving fasting around a social schedule. We have lots of social time scheduled on Saturday, so I am eating that day. We are joining friends for supper. Fortunately for me, their daughter is gluten intolerant, so it doesn't faze them at all to cook that way for me.
I have to see the doctor soon to get some meds re-ordered, and will ask if she wants fresh blood work before then.
I am still tired, in spite of sleeping fairly well, except one night in the last week, and I think I really need to up the fitness level. I think I have DH convinced that I need a dog. He is not on board with the one I have in mind, but the rescue places have many options, I am sure we can find one we can both enjoy. A dog is great motivation to move, that's for sure.
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Hi Mad, Welcome back!! You were really gone a long time and we noticed it more due to you're inability to check in from time to time. Good to see that you are at 148 after a holiday. My interpretation is that this is truly a lifestyle for you and although you have treats once in a while it is something you stick to long term. I'm not at that point 100% but getting closer to it as time goes on. A work in progress.
Trish, are your cheese crackers prepared in a conventional oven or in the microwave. I have seen people speak of doing it both ways, and I really don't like turning on my oven when I don't have to, especially for small things and short periods of time. I could probably use my small toaster oven. I don't use that as often as I should but I'm just not used to it. There are so many instances when it would come in handy, and it's kept out where I don't have to keep getting it out to use it. Also, some use the sliced cheese like you do, and others use little piles of shredded cheese. I guess I need to get brave and do some experimenting. The worst that could happen is I would waste cheese if it didn't work out.
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mjf, not having read the book Trish is reading I cannot address any studies it might cite. But I can tell you that the studies you referenced are not the same thing. The studies you posted reference the way newly diagnosed diabetics are normally trained to manage their blood sugar. I was diagnosed around the time of these studies, back in 2008. I was told to test blood sugar, write the results in a little notebook, bring it to my next doctor visit, at which time the doctor would review the results and adjust medication accordingly. The goal of many diabetics today, such as Trish and I, is to avoid medications by adjusting our diet to control blood sugar. The process is called "Eat To Your Meter."
This article explains that you test your blood sugar before and after eating a particular food to see how that food affects your blood sugar. It will effect you differently than it effects me. If the results are good, you can include that food in your diet. If the results are poor, you eliminate that food from your diet, or limit your portions of that food. Eventually, your diet will keep your blood sugar in the good range, hopefully without the need for medication. This only applies to type 2. Doctors don't usually recommend this to their patients because they rarely discuss diet/nutrition with their patients. They want to prescribe medications and control blood sugar in that manner. There are many who just want to take their meds and eat whatever they want. Then there are others who want to have a more active role and control blood sugar with diet. You may or may not be able to find a study referring to this practice. I personally don't get a lot out of studies because they don't include me and my results and are just a generalization.
fatmad Congratulations on reaching 148 lbs. Hopefully you will be able to lose that last 10 lbs. I've always heard that is the hardest. DH and I watched Eran Segal on YouTube last night discussing some of their tests on mice and they have found that our bodies can lose the weight but remembers the higher weight we were before the weight loss and seems to want to get back there which is why we always lose and gain it back. They have found a way to correct that with mice, but would be impossible to do it with humans. It could be a disaster for us. So they are still working on that one. It seems that our microbiome network is the deciding factor which is where the memory is. I know you are busy but you might enjoying learning about our microbiome network. I'm not sure about links to learn about it as I saw it in the book and on YouTube. In fact when you have time, you would probably like reading the book The Personalized Diet. It is on kindle from Amazon. Any way, glad to have you back.
mjf Thanks for the links, but knowing what Carol Sue said about it, I probably won't be too interested. I started learning how to take care of my blood sugar about 30 yrs ago and lived for years in complete remission by diet and exercise. I have slowly got back to that point now. I take no medicine for diabetes and haven't for years. I do appreciate the help. You said your not diabetic and research to not be and I can tell you that is what has helped me. The doctor who first diagnosed me hand me the ADA diet and said to me, "I have to give this information to you but you will figure it out". I had taken a book about a diet that I was interested in trying for him to look at. Thus the statement. I've been figuring out how to improve my own treatment ever since. So I would recommend that you continue doing what you are doing to keep from ever becoming a full fledged diabetic. I have been to doctors and nutritionists through the years and knew when they had no idea what to do and I see some of them starting to learn and change but fearful of saying too much. Hopefully they will finally see the truth. I don't know if you do YouTube, but I would suggest you look up Dr. Jason Fung and then you can now look up Eran Segal and listen to some of their videos. I do know that Eran Segal mentions a study that was done at Stanford. I don't really have any links.
Carol Sue I am finding that IF/IE is working pretty good for me right. I did check bs after my main meal and it was 141. By ADA standards that isn't bad but it was a jump because my bs reading before supper was 109. The main thing I am learning from the info from The Personalized Diet and the YouTube video is that all diets work, but not for everyone. Some people have success on low fat, LCHF, low carb, etc but the problem is that not many people can continue the diet plan long term and our microbiome network remembers where we started and we end up gaining what we lost plus more. It seems to me that this is why my doctor in SC said to me that any diet will work if you can find one you can live with.
Eran Segal did say on the video that they are seeing that low carbing has the best results of weight loss and improving cholesterol, triglycerides etc which makes me want to try low carb again. I remember when I did it for about 6 months and my SC doctor was so thrilled because he told me "All your numbers are perfect. I don't think the diabetes has damaged any of you organs". So maybe I need to do it and stay on it. I just have to get my mind set for doing it because like fatmad said about vegan, it is so restrictive.
