[Wannabehealthy]

Trish, Dr Fung discusses this extensively on his blog at Intensive Dietary Management. I have not read a lot lately since he started the new website and I think the info is harder to find now but it's under the Blog section. According to him, fasting is the way to handle diabetes but the changes don't happen overnight. You might have higher blood sugar when you first start out, but it will come down in time. This is what he says, and he treats diabetics for a living in his clinic. It is expensive to go through his program and we are fortunate that he makes the information available for free. I am not promoting him or even saying that he's right, just saying that the info is there. According to him, fasting lowers your insulin levels, which is what causes your body to store fat. He says the blood sugar is not the problem, the insulin is.

If I were you, I would do what works, and if that means having some carb in the AM, then do it. I know you do not go hog-wild with a carb fest. For me, I have found that I have great blood sugar if I keep the starchy carbs out of my diet. It's hard, because they are all around me. If I can accomplish that and have only low glycemic carbs, mostly in the form of vegetables, I see a big difference in my reading. My problem is me....avoiding those starches. Maybe you can continue to have that bit of carb in the AM to control your blood sugar readings, and gradually you might start to see a difference. I think the proof is in your A1c, which is usually good. Then there's the issue of weight loss. I know you want that, and you will have to work toward figuring out how all this fits in, and I do too. My weight is very slowly going down by eating less in the evening meal and limiting evening snacking, but I still have work to do there.

Loserbug, I'm glad you were able to get your stats entered. I see yours are very close to mine, but I am a couple inches taller than you are. Since my weight loss has been rather non existant in the past several years, I do not have hope of getting as low as you, but I would welcome a 25 lb loss and I think it would make a big difference in my health.

[Wannabehealthy]

I have been watching this Thrive series online. One thing they are saying that goes along with what Dr Fung teaches is that high blood sugar is a symptom, not the cause. By using medications to lower blood sugar you are forcing the blood sugar out of your blood stream into your cells, and that's not the answer. I really want to get off the Glimiperide. It lowers blood sugar by forcing it into the cells. I think the answer for me is to stop eating the foods that raise the blood sugar in the first place. I know I am using the Glimiperide as a crutch. I am tempted by the wrong foods, I eat them, knowing that I can take the Glimiperide to get rid of the blood sugar, but I'm not really getting rid of it by forcing it into my cells. I think this is the answer for me. I am not promoting anyone getting off their meds. I am basically just posting this to reinforce my resolve in correcting this mess I'm in. Today, I am more determined. I hope I stay this way.

[pattygirl63]

B]Carol Sue[/B] Thanks for the info. It really helps to know that Dr. Fung says the blood sugar might go high for a while, but it will come back down. I was reading the info I got on that website and it says a fast 16 to 18 hrs does great of course longer fasts are better, but it seems that if you can't do anything else the 8:16 is a good place to start. I also read of some of the experiences of others on the site that does IF. Some of them mix it up doing Alternate Days JUDDD, 5:2 etc. It is even suggested to make your own way of doing IF to fit yourself. I also read that going 5 hrs between meals gives the food time to go through before eating again. I remember when I would wait 5 hrs and check my bs it would be way lower.

The article also shares how to start slow if you are a beginner, which I'm not. But it also says to come off your fast with a low carb breakfast or meal. So I'm thinking that CAD is probably a good way for me to continue to eat.

I will modify the CAD in the fact that I will do low carb, but I will have either the Sara Lee Toast or the low carb tortilla at home and the Whataburger taquita because the carbs in it is just as low. The article said to keep the carbs under 100g. I will do that according to the Low Carb for Dummies book as I don't really think the low glycemic veggies need to be counted in that count. However, I have noticed when tracking on MFP that I don't go to much over 100 g of carb when I do include them.

I trust Dr. Fung and I have the good cinnamon coming today which is supposed to help with the weight loss that I will take with the berberine. So I will stay on CAD and I will do my best to stay with 2 meals and stay within 6 to 8 hrs believing that my FBS will come down. I did get some beef and turkey sticks for a quick protein if I need a snack as I read that if you FBS is high in the morning to have a protein snack. I also have some deli meat, however it is almost no fat. So not sure about that. I may just start keeping the sticks on hand. I saw a lady on FB CAD that keeps those for when traveling. I know I can do this. I just couldn't stand the bs going high and I didn't understand why. It is good to know I can continue the CAD because I am depending on it to get me through the holiday eats.

I woke up at 5:20 this morning and checked my FBS each hr until 7:08 was the last time I checked it. And my peak was 196 and I went back to bed and when I got up and checked it at 9:12, it was down to 167. I won't check it before I eat breakfast today. Saving my strips. I believe by having 1 starchy carb at breakfast and 1 or 2 at main meal which is what I normally try to keep it to especially at home, then I should be okay as I'm staying under the 5 starchy carbs LC for Dummies says is safe to eat.

Thanks again Carol Sue for the Dr. Fung info. I really trust him. I used to be on the FB page that is connected with him and maybe I should go back and join it again. I got off of that and the OMAD FB group bc they are such busy sites that I don't get my personal stuff I want to see on FB which defeats the purpose of why I'm on FB in the first place... to keep up with my scattered family and friends. LOL

Loserbug and Arabella

I'm editing to share/commit to my CAD Calorie/Carb count plan for today is 1613 calories and 111 g carbs of which 64 are countable starchy carbs. I don't usually subtract fiber, but if I did the count would be only 46 g. So I am pleased with that. I did check the bs before eating breakfast and it was down to 144.

I better get busy.

[Wannabehealthy]

Trish, I read that Fastday article you linked plus bookmarked it for future reference. Lots of interesting information. I have not been doing well with IF lately. Still snacking at night, but less than normal. I still don't eat my first meal until at least 11 AM.

At 6AM FBG was 151. With no food except coffee with SF creamer it was 164 at 11AM. So that was not too big of a jump. I took my Metformin and .25gm of Glimiperide.. I had scrambled eggs around 11 and a salad with just lettuce and shredded cheese to hold me until DH decided what he wants to do for dinner. Just tested and it's 112. So I am happy with today so far. I am hoping if I have a good evening I will have a good FBG, but I know it takes time to lower it. The fact that my blood sugar can go that low with low carb and very little medicine tells me that I should be able to be close to a non-diabetic with some diligence on my part.

On the video I watched this morning they said that you can have insulin resistance leading to diabetes for 10 years or more before you actually have a FBG high enough to be diagnosed as Diabetes. I would believe that to be true, because I was around 50 when I started gaining weight and my heart disease started to develop. The diabetes diagnosis came at age 62 when I had my heart surgery. I wish I knew what my FBG and A1c were then, but that information got lost in the shuffle of my heart surgery recovery. I believe they thought I was a known diabetic except for the one doctor whom I told I was not diabetic, and he said "Yes you are." I was in the recovery room after surgery when I woke up. The nurse injected something and I asked her what it was and she said "That's your insulin." I told her "I don't take insulin" and she said "It's on your chart." And so it began.

[Wannabehealthy]

I finished off the day with 1097 calories and 64 gm of carb, which were in the mashed potatoes and green peas I had at dinner. I didn't realize that peas had that many carbs or I might have chosen a different vegetable along with the mashed potatoes. They were 25gm in 1 cup. I don't think I had a whole cup but I would rather overstate that understate. I took my Metformin before dinner, but not any Glimiperide. I want to see what happens to my blood sugar at 2 hours from those carbs, so depending on those results, I might need to take some.

I have always considered potatoes to be a starchy carb, but in the video I watched today they said that root vegetables contain nutrients and fiber and should not be eliminated. They consider the bad carbs as sugar and refined carbs, like bread and pasta. I will make my decision based on the blood sugar results today. I didn't recognize all the doctors in the presentation but I did know Dr Fung, Dr Mercola, Dr Fuhrman and one other whose name escapes me right now.

[pattygirl63]

Carol SueYes that website has loads of info on it. I printed out some info and when I get through reading all that, I will go back and print out some other things I want to check out.

I ended up with a 5 hr eating window and I ate pretty good so I don't think I will need a protein snack later. The bottles of cinnamon arrived in time for DH and me to take 2 pills 30 minutes before lunch. I went on Amazon and they also sell powder for cooking etc. So I will order some of that and share it with my DS. DH loves cinnamon toast. I decided I could take the Ceylon cinnamon and Splenda and create a healthier cinnamon for him to have toast and I could have it as well. I am thrilled that he is starting to trust me with these things. He usually fusses about having to take so many pills, but he didn't balk at all when I put 2 cinnamon pills in with his pills and told him to take them 30 minutes before eating main meal. I am so proud of him.

I am so excited about getting those pills early enough to start them today so I am going to really commit to eating just the 2 meals each day for the rest of this year. I want to see if that along with the 2 berberine I am taking will make a difference in my blood sugar readings, A1c in January including weight loss. I think I will get some unsweetened applesauce tomorrow and try putting the powder from the pills in it.

I finally heard from my other niece today. She is going to make her green bean casserole and her sweet potato casserole. I decided not to have the candied sweet potatoes too. I told DH I will save those and make the candied sweet potatoes for Christmas dinner for him. No one will be here but DH, DS and DBIL, Daddy and me for Christmas dinner. With the 3 nieces and one nieces DH cooking and bringing food, I only have to cook the turkey and dressing. I will get the rolls and some other things and I will probably pick up a regular pecan pie since I'm not really sure how Vegan pecan pie will taste to the rest of us. I also plan to try my hand at making homemade cranberry sauce. I'm going to see if I can find a recipe using Splenda. Sure makes getting ready for Thanksgiving much easier for me.

Starting after Thanksgiving, I plan to start cooking Diabetic goodies for DH, DS and me with Splenda. I'll make regular ones for Daddy and DBIL.

Day 1 OP done.

[Wannabehealthy]

Listen to this! I tested at 2 hours after dinner and it was 159. Not great, but also not bad. However, I tested at 4 hours after and was at 171. So 2 hours is not a good testing time for me. My blood sugar continued to rise. I took another .25 of Glimiperide. So that tells me that I cannot take a whole serving of potatoes but go back to eating a bite or two at most. And I now know not to have a starchy vegetable at dinner if I have having another starch. I knew that green peas were considered a legume, but didn't really think about them having that many carbs. We learn something new every day.

[Wannabehealthy]

At 6 AM blood sugar was 112. At 8 AM it is 142 before coffee. Before I started this middle-of-the night testing I didn't realize my blood sugar got so low during the night. So now I know it does go low when fasting.

[pattygirl63]

I didn't do very good yesterday. I ended up eating last night. I felt miserable when I went to bed and I was so disgusted with myself. I decided to read what I had printed out from that site I shared with y'all. It says break a fast with low carb eating. So today I am starting over. If I would follow the CAD program, I would do that. Today I will eat a low carb breakfast or CM meal at Whataburger. I may have to change the menu to a salad since I don't eat until 11 when there and then eat my egg omelet no starches when home.

Main meal will be what it is supposed to be a carby meal, but not more than 2 or 3. Then I think I will start planning a small egg omelet at night so I don't snack. Just got to get a working plan. Also, I think I think I am taking the berberine to long before I eat. I take it and sometimes it is hours before I eat. It is supposed to be taken within 30 min to an hr before. I need to change that too. And I am going to start taking 3 today.

Carol Sue You are really doing good.

BBL

[Wannabehealthy]

Trish, do you follow CAD to the point that you eat the salad beforehand and then do the 3 equal quantities? My dinner is usually where I include carbs but do not include the salad.

This morning I was hungry earlier, probably as a result of my eating style yesterday. I ate scrambled eggs around 10, and I ate 2 bites of DH's french toast. Now my blood sugar is 187. So adding carbs to my meal in the morning is not good. Also, I think I should go back to eating the 1 egg before bed. When I was doing that, my fasting blood sugar was around the same as it was when I went to bed. That disrupts my fasting period, but maybe it is best for me. I had to take 1 mg of Glimiperide which upsets me. Every time I have to take Glimiperide it increases my insulin levels.

My weight is the same this morning, right at 200, and that is after coffee and breakfast. I always forget to weigh before coffee, and that adds water weight. At least I didn't have a gain, and I am maintaining a few pounds lower that I was before. Baby Steps.

I think we are going to the casino today and I will be eating the buffet. I have to plan ahead. Today I will skip the mac and cheese, and hopefully increase veggies. Sometimes their veggie is corn, and it's not my favorite and starchy. Lately when they have broccoli or cauliflower they have it in cheese sauce, also not my favorite. It's a free buffet, so I guess I can't be so choosy. LOL There's always the salad bar.

[Wannabehealthy]

I did very well at the casino buffet. I ate a lot, I was very full but not stuffed, but they had fresh green beans as a veggie and I love them so I ate a lot. I had steak and shrimp, and 2 bites of mac and cheese. They have the best mac and cheese I've ever had. I took my Metformin and 1 mg of Glimiperide. That was around 4-5 PM. At 9 PM my blood sugar was 95, so I'm happy. I would love to be getting these results without the meds, but I have weaned myself down to less than half of my prescribed dose and I look forward to the day when I can eliminate it completely.

And, I wore a pair of dressier shoes today and my foot pain was minimal. Last night before bed I rubbed it with Aspercreme with Lidocaine. I think the massaging might have helped so I'm going to do it again, tonight.

I want to say that I'm very glad that I have this forum to come to where we all accept each other and our difference of opinion on our WOE. This is my Diabetes family and we are here for the good of each other. I give thanks for all of you this Thanksgiving season.

[pattygirl63]

Carol Sue Yes I do eat a salad before my main meal. No I do not use the 1/3 rule for the plate. It was not in the Original book which I have and pretty much follow with some modifications. My modifications I have made comes from the changes that have come from the Glycemic Load research. I allow fruit at first meal of the day and a starchy carb. In fact, as of today, I realized I cannot follow CAD at all. I can only use some of their ideas along with Intermittent Fasting.

I ended up eating last night because I felt like I was starving. For one thing my day was a very stressful day. However, I did manage to have a 15 hr fast between my last bite of food last night and my 1st bite this morning. My FBS was 164 and just before breakfast it was 154. The 154 was after 1/4 c of the coffee, 1 berberine and 21 minutes on the recumbent bike.

Since it appears that I need some carby foods to stabilize my bs during the day, then I will NOT eat them all in one meal. I think spreading it out over the day the way ADA seems to recommend now, I believe there must be a reason and I am going to go ahead and trust it. I am using the rule of the LC for Dummies and I will limit it to less than 5 servings a day working to keep the starchy carbs between 60 to 75 g a day. In fact, I prefer to keep it 3 servings which would be 36 - 45 g daily since I try to eat no more than 3 times. I don't usually subtract the fiber because LC for Dummies doesn't, however, I am tracking it. I'm not doing it on MFP. I've doing it in a spiral notebook tracking FBS, carbs, fiber and exercise.

I did increase the berberine to 1 3x a day and I took 2 Ceylong cinnamon pills yesterday. This morning I decided to go ahead and open the cinnamon capsule and mix it with a Splenda packet. I was going to put it on toast, but I decided to mash my banana that I eat and the cinnamon into the banana. I had it for breakfast. Tomorrow, I will not add the Splenda to it.

I remember back when DS was dating the girl in Mass. before he went back to his first wife something some friends told her on FB they did to lower their bs. She and I have continued our FB friendship. Any way, they said they take 2 cinnamon pills 2x a day. I might do that for a while and use it get a jumpstart. I will try that today when I eat our main meal.

I will continue the IF of 16:8 and work myself toward a longer fast. I read that 16 - 18 hr fasts work great, so I will work toward that. On days I can do only 6 hr eating window, I will do it. However, if I am only able to do the 8 hr eating window then I'm not going to worry about it. I am going to continue my 20 minutes exercise 4 or 5 days a week. I think at this point that I just need to get on My Own plan and just work at being consistent with it.

Carol Sue You did very well at the casino. I really think you are learning how to use the Glimiperide to make it work for you. You are lowering your blood sugar and your weight and as the weight comes down, perhaps you will need to use less and less of the Glimiperide and who knows, you might even be able to get off of it. Believe me, if what I'm doing doesn't work and I have to take it, I will definitely be talking to my doctor about it.

My DS got her A1c report yesterday and it was 6.8. She called and asked me if that was okay and I told her that the doctors want it to be below 7. She felt good about it and I didn't tell her it needs come down lower. However, I did give her the cinnamon and I will talk to her about opening the capsule and putting it into her fruit. I am going to have DH put it in his cereal he likes to eat.

I also am thankful for our diabetic thread here for the same reasons you do Carol Sue.

Fatmad How are things going for you? Are you enjoying your new home?

Loserbug and Arabella I hope all is well with y'all.

Have a good day.

[Wannabehealthy]

Trish, when I was diagnosed in the hospital, they were giving me insulin, but when I left, they had me on only Metformin and Glimiperide. After seeing my PCP for a follow up, he took me off the Glimiperide. He knows it can cause hypos and must be closely controlled. It was a few years later when my A1c went up that he added it back. It was at my suggestion, because I wanted something that was inexpensive. When I go to see him I'm not going to tell him I've reduced my dose. If I do, he might change my RX and I want to have it if I need it. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and now have it. I hope you control your diabetes without it, Trish. All it did for me is convince me I could eat more carbs and then just take the Glimiperide. I am now taking the least amount possible. One women I know gained 10 lbs on it, and I suspect it plays a part in my inability to lose weight.

I am becoming more and more interested in eating vegetables. Low Carb keeps my blood sugar low, but I don't lose on it, and weight loss is necessary. I will still avoid things like bread, rice, pasta and sweets, but want to eat more veggies and fewer animal proteins. And I don't eat high fat. I don't see myself ever giving up animal protein completely. I no longer feel that I belong on the low carb forums. They mostly follow LCHF and no veggies. I am getting away from that and have to keep my mouth shut about it on there or be criticized. There are a few Vegan/Vegetarian threads there, but that's not me either. I have to feel free to do what I think is best for me.

My friend who lost weight was having A1c reading at 7 and 7.1. She refused meds and never checks blood sugar. Finally when her A1c went up to 8 she cut her carbs and I believe also her calories. Last time she went for her A1c it was 6.5 and now it's at 6. She is only a few points away from being normal. I think she said she eats around 50-60 gm of carb, but she does not cook. She eats a lot of processed foods, but counts the carbs. She eats cold cereal, cottage cheese, yogurt and a salad every day, and occasionally cooks a chicken leg. She still eats snacks like pretzels, but counts out a serving and records the carbs. I couldn't eat that way, but I don't fault her because it's working for her. She also walks about 2 miles per day, 7 days a week. I don't know how that will be now that winter is upon us. We get temps in the teens and snow. I don't know if she will still walk in those conditions, but she is very determined and probably will.

I remember cinnamon toast when I was a kid. I loved it. They even came out with a combination of cinnamon and sugar you could buy already mixed together. My mother said they made it when she was a kid, too, but they used lard on the toast. LARD.

I did not eat eggs today. I had a half banana with peanut butter. I made sauteed cabbage, kale and onion, and cooked some baby carrots to eat with it. It was delicious. I was actually craving it. LOL Who craves cabbage and carrots? I think when that happens that my body needs something and it causes the cravings. It made me very happy.

[Wannabehealthy]

Yesterday DH got hungry early. We went out, and I wasn't really that hungry. I ordered a small chef salad and he ordered fried fish. I picked at my salad, only eating less than half, but when he didn't eat all his fish, I was ready and willing to finish it for him. LOL Although there was a hard boiled egg and some deli turkey in my salad, I think my body was craving protein, that's why the fish appealed more to me. I finished the salad this morning, and skipped my scrambled eggs again.

When we came home last night I went into the bedroom to watch TV and did doze a bit. At 9:30 I got up and was going to sit out here with DH for a while but he decided to go to bed, so I did too. I woke up in the middle of the night and was very hungry. I'm really not one who will get up and eat in the middle of the night. By the time I finally got up around 8 I was no longer hungry and my coffee held me. When I went to bed my blood sugar was 79 and when I got up it was 124. Remember...I am still taking some Glimiperide, so it's not just from my dietary selections. Just a very, very slight change in weight. Still around the 200 mark, but it wavers downward slightly. If I keep up the veggie eating I expect to be down a bit more....just in time for Thanksgiving Dinner. LOL

I made a pumpkin pie for DH yesterday. If I didn't do that, he would eat a whole pie as soon as they were done for Thanksgiving. He has done that in the past. And I had a very small piece without a surge in blood sugar, Couple bites. Counting bites works better for me that counting calories or carbs.

I think this is what they mean when they say that the first couple bites of something are usually much better than the rest. My step-son had that effect when he was trying to quit smoking. He got out of bed needing a cigarette, but they didn't really interest him the rest of the day. He said that struggling through the need for the first one was what got him through it. So for many things, if I have one bite, it satisfies my need. It doesn't seem to work with those pretzels though. Haven't even thought about them for a few days.

[pattygirl63]

I am so tired, but I'm getting things cleaned up and ready for company Turkey day. As my Mama got older she would say that she didn't remember her house being so big. I felt that way today when I swept and mopped the floor. I don't really like the tile in this house because no matter how much you clean it, it never looks really clean to me. I really do like my house, I just wish the living room was larger when we have company.

I am trying to stay OP too and I'm not sure that isn't keeping me tired. Plus Daddy is kind of depressed because I think he is missing Mama and his family. I can see him wishing he would just go on so he could be with Mama again. He talks a lot about old times. I hear him talking like DH DM talked when she was ready to go be with her husband and finally told DH and me that she wanted to go on to heaven. It didn't take long after she told us that before she passed away. They just get tired of the life they have here without those who have gone before them. I wonder if this will be the last year we have him here. DS and I don't even remember Christmas last year because we thought we were going to lose him then. We take it one day at a time.

Carol Sue You are doing very well. Yes I know you are taking the Glimiperide, but at least it is working for you. I remember when it wasn't working so well.

My FBS was 146 which is an improvement. My bs reading before breakfast was 155. I think that is the way it is supposed to work. I'm not doing well at night. As I got something out of the freezer, I saw some WW dinners in there and realized I could be eating those. I bought them before because I don't like to have to cook. I would add veggies to it and have it for supper. I am going to go back to doing that. It worked before so no reason why it shouldn't work now. I ate at 10:30 this morning and by the time I get ready to eat this afternoon it will be 5 hrs later. I remember I did good eating every 5 hrs and bs readings were good when I did that. I remember reading in some of the diabetic articles it was good to weight 5 hrs because the food gets out of your stomach. I will weight 5 hrs after dinner and eat the WW dinner with veggies. That will cut my fasting hours to 14, but I think it is the way for me to go right now especially during the holidays.

Carol Sue Yes I agree with you about the couple of bites. I read in Joyce Meyer's book that is how she eats. When she and her DH go out to eat, she has him get something she wants to eat and takes a few bites and lets him have the rest of it. In fact, I plan to do that Thanksgiving day. I usually do pretty good with big meals like that because I take about a TBS of each food item that I want and try not to go back for seconds. If I'm visiting with others, I get distracted and don't eat as much as I probably would otherwise.

That is the plan I want to follow.