Wildviolets and kamesennin :welcome:

Bob -- You're story made me sad :hug: ... I know you can do it this time...

Wildviolets -- I was one, until March, that would eat 5-6 mini meals/day, I was never hungry but if I happened to miss a feading :lol: I would get shaky ... With Primal I am IFing pretty regularly, 3-4x/week, eating at 6pm then not eating again till 11am the next day with no shakes at all or weakness... You just have to try it yourself and see how if feels for you but I find for myself the less carbs I eat the easier it is to IF...

W2L -- Way to go on your weight loss in June! I never thought of guacamole deviled eggs, great idea :hun: ... A question about avocados... How do you keep it if you only use half of one, mine are black and aweful the next day, unless I eat it all immediately... Happy Anniversary!

Kara -- that Primal candy recipe looks really good :hun:


Family support: Well you know, no one in my family realises that I'm a Primal eater, they know I lo-carb it they just don't realise that it's really NO carb... When I make supper I now make a BASalad, another cooked or raw veggie and a protein. At first I was making rice or pasta for them but no one was eating it because they were eating too many of the veggies and they were full, so I stopped making it and no one is asking for the carb :lol: ... If they feel the need for a carb after supper they eat a fruit or a piece of bread... I don't talk about my way of eating at all, I've only talked to my running client about it, she's the only one that understands because she's done Atkins before, I lent her my book to read and sent her the MDA Primal 101 link... BTW my husband is not overweight at all he's 5'10'' 175lbs, just one of those naturaly thin people that us folks who struggle with weight love to hate :lol: ... He eats well though he's not a junk food eater and never has been, he'll eat whatever I make and be happy with that, in my tofu days he'd even eat that, without a complaint... His saying is: ''If I don't have to make it, it's good!'' what a guy I love him to death, he's a keeper...

Hangovers: I'm tired and slightly hung over this morning myself... Met up with 2 GFs for a BBQ yesterday afternoon and we drank a pitcher of Margaritas and 4 bottles of wines, between the 3 of us, in my defence :lol: this was in a 8 hour span, still, I'm paying for it this today of course :doh: ... We had loads of laughs and fun though... Her meal was pretty primal with chicken, BAS and roasted potatos, but I immediately felt my stomach bloat from the potato and felt slightly sick, but in the end all was good...

Just back from a 50 minute bike ride, ugh, I'm drained...I wonder why :dizzy:

Hi Ilene -- when you cut the avocado in half, leave the pit in the half you're not going to eat. Then wrap the whole thing, including the pit, in plastic wrap and put in the refrigerator. Mine last several days like this.

I'll try that CJZ thanks!

Thanks for all the thoughts. I'm still blowing it. Hey it's Independence Day and my brother is here. What? Must BBQ. :)

Sorry my story made you sad, Ilene. It just made me really mad.

Susan -- Nice work on the sausage gravy. Man, could I disappear massive amounts of biscuits and gravy in the day.

wildviolets -- Kara gave the perfect answer for intermittent fasting. Eat when you want. Like many, I never had a strong need for breakfast. So waiting for lunch could easily create a 19 hour fast (dinner @ 7pm, lunch at noon) and I would have experienced approximately 5 hours of body fat burning. Now pushing the lunch back an hour here and there may lead to waiting for dinner and establishing a pretty simple 20 hour fast and 4 hour eating window daily. In that window it helps to eat one nutritionally dense meal, and for me anyway, one small meal or snack that helps me make it the next day.

For example: Dinner at 6 could be pork chops, carrots, and a big salad with bacon and hard boiled eggs. Maybe around 9 or 10 have some primal cereal, chopped nuts, sliced berries and cream or coconut milk, or as one friend of mine does, bacon and eggs. That's two decent meals in 4 hours. Some sleep better with a full belly, some don't. If you don't make the small meal first and earlier. Maybe right after work or even as a late lunch, say 3pm. Then have the large meal at 6 or so and there you've done it. 20 hours. Fat will burn more rapidly than someone eating the same calories spread out. You will entrain ghrelin to signal less hunger daily. You will become more sensitive to leptin, filling up easier and solving portion control issues. And you will become more insulin sensitive. This is what research is telling me and what I am experiencing. I haven't eaten since Red Lobster yesterday around 5. It's almost 5 again, and I can eat, but I am not particularly hungry. Either or would be fine with me.

Now to light that BBQ and put some chairs on the roof for fireworks :)

How was everyone's 4th of July? We went to the drive in and watched a double feature. I was surprised how many people were there instead of shooting fireworks. My son loves the drive-in so that's how we decided to spend our holiday evening. Before primal I bought lots of chocolate and pringles for these outings, but last night I had some beef jerky (9 gm carbs for 3.5 oz) and a handful of cashews, and was satisfied.

koceank29 aztec stuffed peppers? recipe please? YUMMMMMM

tymaboy i remember the ice cream cravings. the cravings will get easier and easier to deal with. i hardly crave sweets now. i do have to stay away from even super dark chocolate though, otherwise it will trigger me.

Ilene it sounds like you had a fantastic time with your friends! I love days like that.

Susan, I've never been much of a gravy eater, but that gravy sounds yummy!

AFM I am a bit frustrated with my lack of weight loss. For the last five days I have been monitoring my ketosis with some ketosticks. I have been in ketosis (moderate) for the full five days and have not lost a pound. I haven't lost a pound in weeks actually. My body is incredibly resistant to weight loss it seems. I have even cut calories without really meaning to. I am just avoiding food now if I can help it. Still no weight loss. :( I eat between 1000k and 1600k a day. There should be a loss, KWIM? I won't stop eating this way because of the other benefits, but I am not just slightly overweight, I am HUGE and I know my metabolism is broken and I do try and get 65-70% fats, but this is ridiculous. I need to lose this weight and I don't know if it will ever happen.

My husband drops five pounds in a week eating more than I do. And he's not even obese! He has a little belly fat, that's it. Very frustrating.

I have decided that when I have lost 50 pounds I am buying myself this because I totally deserve it. I deserve it now for coming this far, but I want to give myself a goal to shoot for, so I don't get too overwhelmed by how much father I have to go. I have been coveting this necklace for years, but never buy things like this so it will be nice to finally have it.
http://sattvagallery.com/delicate-necklace.html

Oh Kathy, that's pretty. Go for it! And we want pics when you get it.

Kathy, that is soooo pretty, you sooo deserve it :yes:

Good morning!

I should change that s/c/g thing in my profile. I can't recall the last time I was 128 lbs. Oh maybe for a half day ...
I'm sorry that I keep going on about this but it baffles me! I can start pinching at my armpit and hardly have anything to grab until I get to about the muffin top area. It's awesome! But I'm sure glad I hadn't set my heart on getting to be 120 lbs!

Kathy,
Just a thought on the weight loss....Do you think your digestion may be sluggish? I was having alot of problems with my stomach.... I thought I had GERD. But many doctors later a Naturopath got me started on taking a spoonful of Apple Cider Vinegar in a glass of water one half hour before meals. I immediately lost 5 lbs (probably water weight) and my stomach problems started to clear up.

My stomach problems weren't about too much acid but not enough. The food was just staying in the upper part of my stomach and was taking days to digest. I won't gross you out with the associated problems.

I only mention this to you because I believe you were taking the same prescription drug I was for stomach problems. It starts with an O????? I haven't used it in about 6 months.

This way of eating has helped my stomach TREMENDOUSLY!

Just thought I'd throw that out as a possibility.

Thanks everyone for answering my breakfast question and thanks Bob for all the detail. I think I'm going to try that when my husband goes out of town next week....it will be easier for me to try it without having to cook for him at a certain time. I'm excited to try it!

Aztec Stuffed Peppers- Cut tops off and get seeds out, coat in olive oil and cook in oven at 375 for about 20 min(you want them almost soft) Then fill with whatever you'd like. and put back in oven for another 5ish min and turn broil on for about 1 min to brown up the cheese and pepper.

I used goat cheese and bacon for the stuffing this time(bacon I crisped up first and chopped in pieces) Next time I'm not using the aztec peppers, they are too bland, we like spicy at my house. The farm stand had them really cheap so I tried them. Here is a link I saw earlier on MDA, sounds delish! Although I may use different ingred, but I liked the concept.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/crock...uffed-peppers/

Glad to be back to regular schedule again. I did not eat as bad as I could have but still did not make the best chooses. Yesterday morning I was back up to 144. Last nite DH & I did end up at Beechers for ice cream. I thought it would show on the scale this morning but I actuelly dropped a lb.

Sassykathy- The necklace is beautiful! If I wore jewelry it is something that I would like to get too. DH buys me jewelry once in awhile but I barley wear it.

Okay then. I am now 38 hours into a fast and feeling GREAT. This may be an adrenal response that could eventually lead to adrenal fatigue, but the four days of blissful eating probably make that no concern. Despite being a little disappointed in my ability to stick to the plan, I sill feel like weight came off during those four days. It's times like this that I know, for me anyway, it is far better just not to weigh myself. Period. I am happy to wait for the 1st of August.

Kathy, that is a nice reward for 50 pounds. My plan was pizza at 50 pounds, My favorite restaurant at 100. But instead I skipped the pizza and just celebrated the 50 pounds for a few days of primal over eating. As to the stalled weight loss, maybe you too should not worry about the scale daily, weekly or whatever. Just stick to a healthy plan. Weighing yourself, counting calories, balancing macros -- to me all of these are the accessories of a diet, not a lifestyle, and diets are not sustainable whereas a lifestyle is by definition.

As fast as I am losing now, I do know your frustration. I could maintain 350+ pounds at 1800-2000 calories a day before I started this lifestyle. The math didn't make sense and my brother could maintain 185 at 3000+ calories. Life just sucks like that sometimes. My mom likes to count calories, years of WW and Tops, and she calculated my average daily calories in July at 900-1000. That's really low, but the fasting days are zero calorie days and the eating days are generally 1200 to 2000. I agree with wildviolets that you could have digestive problems and maybe even thyroid issues. Gut flora? But remember Dr. Harris at Panu's plan for a broken metabolism? Get 85% of your calories from fat. There are levels of ketosis and it seems deep ketosis is healing for broken metabolisms. I thought my metabolism was broken, but a couple weeks averaging 20g of carbs a day including a few zero gram days (fasts) and something stoked the fat burning process. I truly hope you find a successful approach.

My brother's diet:

Yesterday he made pancakes for everyone in the morning. His were swimming in fake maple syrup. At lunch he just snacked on half a box of Entenmenn's donuts. For dinner, he went to Arby's and got a big roast beef sandwich, some fries and a coke. He had the 20 oz. fast food soda and 3 cans of full strength Pepsi yesterday. This morning I noticed the box of donuts is empty. Sigh. I gotta live with this!?

Good grief Bob, your brother is like a walking temptation. Stay strong and just imagine his organs having to work overtime on all that poison. I don't know your brothers age, but 10 years from now you'll be looking younger than your age and he'll probably be looking 10 years older. It will catch-up in the later years.

So I've been having an ongoing conversation in my head lately(not the crazy kind!). I leave for Ocean City,MD next Friday and will be there 8 days and my hubby and I have been discussing the food plan. We'll be at a condo with my mother, step-father, my grandparents and my kiddos of course, and we are the only healthy eaters in the family, everyone else is CW healthy. Of course the boardwalk has tons of temptations, but after my little experience with birthday cake in Florida I want nothing to do with sugar or junk food, it will ruin at least 1 day for me since I'd be stuck in the condo near the bathroom. I have decided to bring my food processor so I can make a few little primal treats for me and hubby. My kids will be having their bdays there as well, so more bday cake! I have finally realized, its just not worth it to eat junk, I feel crappy emotionally and physically for days after and it takes 1 wk to get back into Primal happiness for me. I'm not one the people that can eat something bad and have no adverse effects, my body really punishes me. So thats my conversation...I decided to obstain from boardwalk treats and just stick with my regular eating, it will make me feel so much stronger in the long run. I will be eating toppings off of pizza, and tons of seafood probably cooked in veg. oils, but aside from that no funnel cake,canolis,ice cream,sugary lemonade,fudge or anything else that I'd normally eat there, I'll make my own versions. Another thing that drove me to thinking this way is how far I've come, I would hate to go on vacation and center it around food like others in my family and end up gaining 10 lbs back, its just not worth it right now. I'm going to for once in my life, go on vacation and spend my $$ on activites with my son, like kayaking,beach hike,parasailing,jet skiing, etc, instead of wasting $$ on "treats".

Done!

Good attitude Kara!

I find family vacations and get togethers a complete disaster for me. My sister says that we a compulsive partying gene......when in a party atmosphere, we always eat and drink too much. I'm just terrible when it comes to temptation.

But you sound like you are going in with a good plan and your husband will be good support so you should have a successful vacation. Hang in there!

Kara, be strong :strong: ....

Bob, I agree with Kara, EVENTUALLY this kind of eating will catch up to him :yes: ...

Yesterday I visited the dentist at 7:30am because of a sore tooth they were very good in taking me right away,considering I was a drop-in, but I've been a client of theirs for 20+ years... It's a wisdom tooth, I have all mine still and they are all out too... I am on anti biotics and pain killers... I didn't work yesterday, slept all day, I was bored at home though, and too lazy to make good food so I ate a few fruits and half a cup of ww pasta... OOOHH :o I paid for it this morning, had a good cleanse :lol:, no weight gain either...

Not much else to report....

What a great and well deserved reward!

No matter how thin he is that diet is downright unhealthy! The HFCS, hydrogenated oils, the chemicals and preservatives, the hormone laden fast food meats... ugh!

My sister and her family are here for a long visit - lots of temptations - I'm doing well with foods, but I'm not getting much exercise in. I really want to and NEED to change that. I am reading the Fitness chapter of PB this week, and once company leaves and heat wave breaks (I'm in Va. --- UGH!!!), I want to focus on exercise. Weight is holding steady at 146 -- ready to see that drop.

Have a PRIMAL day, all! (We need a primal emoticon!)

:yes: :yes:

I am 63 hours into a water fast. I'm sure grok had to deal with similar and I understand this is considered crazy by many, but my chronic very slight stomach ache is gone right now. I am still having bowel movements, which speaks to being a little backed up, and I feel fine. Pretty good. If it wasn't so hot, I could easily make my 6 mile walk. I did it last night at 10pm, when it finally cooled down.

Beef jerky is drying. A big NY steak is thawing. I'm tempted to wait for dinner and make this a full 72 hours, since I was asked a question about that length and a few studies suggest that bad things happen "after" 72 hours. This makes me even with the plan after screwing up for 4 days.

Other than being a little famished, I feel good. Almost artificially high. Nothing major, but I felt so "light" weight wise yesterday that it put me in a very good mood. Bending down to get some weeds was easy. I popped out of my chair in a way I couldn't a week ago. The simplest way to describe this is that I feel about 20 years younger. I'm thinking of joining a men's basketball league.

You gals didn't know a lunatic had joined your group didja? http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:x...eman-smile.gif

As for my brother. He is 9 years older than me and people frequently refer to him as my younger brother. He also smokes. I cannot discuss diet with him because he is ferociously against health food. He did eat sane yesterday. "My" steak and eggs in the morning and a nice pork stew he fixed for everyone for dinner.

As of this post, I feel like waiting for dinner to eat. We'll see. I feel too young to eat! Could be mild delusions though. hehe

Bob- That is amazing...I know how you feel on the feeling younger front. I'm only 31 but the other week at a friends my 11m old was running for the stairs and I jumped up to grab her and had my friend comment that she'd never seen anyone move that fast. I honestly feel like I'm 20, you really can't ask for anything better. Congrats on feeling young! Watch out basketball league!

I need your advice. DH has gone on a business trip. When he does DS & I usualy go out to dinner atleast 1 nite as a special bounding time for just the 2 of us. DS likes to go to Asian King (Chinese Buffet) Sometimes we go else where but they're all not very diet friendly. The last time we went out we went to Champs & I ordered a Salad. Can you give me some inexpensive ideas of where to go or what to have. I have been doing half way decent, other then a few small flubs this last weekend.

I'm up in NY and it's hot-hot-hot here. Please tell me why I left Florida (insert wry grin). I'm engaged to a guy who lives in NY and so I will probably be here all summer ... it is a different way of life than my home in FL.

I'm seriously thinking of skipping dinner a time or two a week, although it is very hard for me. Bob, those huge fasts you are doing just astound me. I'm one who likes to eat 4-5 small meals a day. But that has all changed here so I think the skipping dinner thing might be the "mini-fast" for me. Somehow skipping breakfast doesn't do anything for me in terms of weight loss, but skipping dinner often does.

I'm tracking my calories/carbs in my software ... keeping the carbs low is not too hard, but it's tough to keep my calories low. At home I mostly eat very small mini-meals that aren't too calorie dense, but here I am eating "regular" meals and even though it doesn't seem like I'm eating that much - wow! - the calories add up.

I'm pretty happy with my food choices, though. We had company a few times and bought things like ice cream and chocolate sauce and chips and dip and none of it crossed my lips. I find it not that hard to avoid this stuff.

Kathy, I'm like you, I lose weight very slowly but it does comes off eventually. I have found the skipping dinner often jump-starts weight loss, even if I don't change the calories for the day.

Love the necklace, it is so pretty. CJ

If you start with what I did in May, I have been gradually conditioning myself for longer fasts. Even before starting this diet, I had a history of fasting. Starting by skipping a meal here and there is the only way to go, and it is probably all that is necessary to spend several hours here and there in "true body fat" burning metabolism. The pace I have set is not necessarily wise, but I have every intention of slamming on the brakes September 1st. I developed this winter idea reading about paleo anthropology and the ice age. I knew it would work for *me*. I have spent more time in fasting forums over the last five years than "normal" places like this. I know doctors and online friends who routinely water fast for seven day stretches.

I've been swimming with my kid today. Even at 66 hours I had plenty of energy for a bunch of swimming, racing, marco polo, practicing front flips, etc. Still feeling great. It's almost like eating would ruin how light I feel and how happy my rested guts are. :shrug:

Tyma, why don't you and your son do something else as a bonding time? Like go bowling,movies,etc. and then maybe go to a great park and have a picnic. I'm sure that would be more bonding than just a rest IMO. I'm starting this myself with my kids, I feel like all my bonding with my family growing up was around food, holidays, celebrations all were about food, so I'm trying to change that and make activities the place where we bond and eating a 2nd thought. If you really want to do the rest route, maybe you could find a little mom & pop place each time your DH is away and think of yourselves as food critiques, that way you try something new each time. HAve fun whatever you choose!

Hi,

I've been browsing around, having started into something quasi-Atkins-ey, and found this thread [Bob, I think I followed one of your posts...]. After a few days checking out the Primal website, I ordered the book.

Despite what I've always read about the food pyramid with the grains at the base, I have never been able to lose weight when I include them. I just bloat and then the scale goes up. "Whole" grains are even worse. Add some sugar and I'm totally messed up, especially after menopause. And I'm lactose intolerant to boot.

So I want to give this a try--mind if I join in to lose these last 10-ish pounds?

Spanky

You are very welcome to join us Spanky!

Afternoon everyone. It is blessed hot here, whew!

Hi Spanky!

Welcome aboard. I think this is a great way to maintain goal weight or drop the last ten pounds. You will be eating very healthy. The benefits seem incredible to me.

Homemade beef jerky broke the fast. Wow, another benefit is how incredible food tastes. Haha. I'm pretty sure it's the same old jerky I always make, but it tasted like the best jerky in the history of the universe.

:carrot:Too funny Bob! Good for you! You are going to be the incredible shrinking man!

Spanky- Welcome! You not being able to lose with grains and the bloating...that is me in a nutshell!

:lol: this cracked me up too!!

:welcome: Spanky ...

Today I was hungry for fruit so I ate 2 bananas and I'm sure about 30 cherries... and the rest was Primal... I walked/ran for 40 minutes in the coolness of an arena where there is a track going around it... Awesome!!

I feel like a wimp but I'm going to get on the elliptical in my AC'd livingroom. I tried going outside but yuck!

Good food day today! I fried eggs last evening and ate two of them for breakfast. HB eggs and a big bag of cauliflower, broccoli, celery and radishes for lunch. A beef patty because someone cooked it and didn't eat it. Butt chops in butter and spinach (in butter) for supper. I wish I had a fruit but I guess somebody ate it all.
I've done the egg thing again this evening, so I might have one before I go to bed.
If ... when ... when I put in some time on the elliptical, I think I'll have a light beer. It's the perfect weather for it.

Thanks! I tried to keep track yesterday and 85g is A LOT of protein. I will keep trying. I just bought a new cast iron pan so I've been keeping it oiled with coconut oil and of course bacon fat.

What is the deal on fats? I really need to break down the percentages because I'm kind of clueless--I need to think of things in terms of tablespoons, lol. What are the percentages to aim for?

My alarm must be broken! I did set it last night!

So, with little time for recreation ;) Is protein the one that corresponds to exercise? If you are active 1 gm per lb of LBM. If you are not vigorously active, less?

G'Morning All,

Susan B: I think I just read it can be 0.7 to 1 gram protein per pound of body weight...

Got the book yesterday and read about a third of it. Delighted that I can at least have berries and such. I get gagged out on Atkins for the lack of a twinge of fruit.

Breakfast has been a 2-egg frittata with cheese, tomatoes, and bacon bits [real bacon that is]. I must confess I'm still drinking a lot of Crystal Light, but am getting plenty of fluids that way.

Nearly impossible to find anything "organic' around here but I'll worry about that later. 80% rule and all that.

Since I started the job I'm in, I've been harassed by a co-worker who is constantly after me about my eating habits. Sabotage, comments to the whole group about my eating 'issues', etc. This month we finally have a new manager who is dedicatedly "Low Carb" and who looks fabulous, and also refuses the bakery stuff and candy she pushes on us. It's kind of taken the pressure off me--what a relief!

Today's lunch might get a little desperate. I brought my own turkey and have to go hunting for some kind of salad...

So. A good day to all,

Spanks

There really aren't exact percentages to aim for. Diets have those. This is a sustainable lifestyle with plenty of food freedom.

One of the nice things about Primal Blueprint is the various approaches that are acceptable. Protein and Carbs have targeted levels then the rest of your calories should come from healthy fats.

So if you have 100 pounds of lean body mass, you should get between 70 to 100 grams of protein a day, but this can be balanced over several days with the same results.

Next is carbs and there's three levels all acceptable. 100 - 150 grams of carb a day for very active types and those maintaining. 50-100 grams of carb for steady weight loss. Less than 50 for obesity and rapid weight loss.

So in my case, obese losing rapidly, I try to get my protein with beef and fish, I keep the carbs low with very low carb veggies, a lot of them, and everything else comes from fats. I will take coconut oil by the tablespoon. I cook with it, with butter, with olive oil. I eat fatty meats like bacon and sausage. Eggs are nice combo of protein and fat. I consume the fattiest of dairy, full fat yogurt, cheeses, cream (whipped too), creme fresh, butter and cultured butter. And coconut milk has been a fun discovery. Dr. Harris at Panu drinks heavy cream to get his fat intake up. He's 5-11 and a 155 pounds.

There's a little more. The bulk of your diet, think of bulk as appearance here, should be veggies. We need the anti-oxidants. The bulk of your calories will come from fats. You want to eat as "clean" as you can comfortably afford. Free range chicken and eggs. Organic pork. Pastured beef. Wild caught fish. Organic produce and dairy.

So start by picking your carb category. From there the other things should fall in place, but it is a real mental effort for some of us (me included) to eat so much saturated fat after years of being told it was the bad guy. For what it's worth, I do not count any of this stuff anymore. It took me a couple weeks to understand approximately how much carb was in what. I'm keeping my carbs under 50 and eating what I want, remembering not to be scared of fats. Yesterday I made crackers out of cheese and ate guacomole. I put toasted walnuts and strawberries in full fat yogurt and filled up. :)

My next post will make this all much easier. There is a better way to look at it.

That's good news Spanky. I've had to cultivate support and it was uncomfortable for awhile, but my results have shut up the rabble and even won a couple converts. Don't sweat the "clean" organic thing that much. Take it from me, an organic tomato marktet grower, there isn't that much difference in many crops. Just wash all your veggies. I fill a bowl with a 6-1 vinegar solution and everything gets a quick soak, a little brushing/rubbing, and a cold rinse. This has been tested to remove more pesticide than any method and youo won't taste vinegar. Organic crops get sprayed with toxic organic chemicals anyway. I would focus my budget on organic meat and dairy first. It's harder to purify that stuff.

You have the book, so you know the Crystal Light is a no no. I'll just leave it at that. Well, I might ask if that is really the best use of your 20%?

Personally, I like a little chocolate here and there. :)

My mom and kid guzzle that stuff... hehe

Susan, that is a good question. I know carbs have calculations based on activity and working out, but I thought the protein #s were stable -- .7 to 1g for ea lb of LBM?

I've been reading about lowering protein for diabetes protection (insulin surges). Sheesh, someday I may just eat animal fats and veggies and be healthy! Hah!