sidhe - It has just been too long for me and I don't remember enough about the book. Since I seem to have lost my copy, I am ordering another one and will let you know when I have read it.
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Originally Posted by InfertileMyrtle
As terrifed as I am of rape, I have have both rape nightmares and rape sexual fantasies to this day. It is really confusing. In reality, if a man is agressive towards me I freeze up and I am terrifed - not turned on. But in fantasy, for some reason, my brain tries to make rape sexual. I don't know why - but it obviously relates in some way to my first sexual experience at age 19.
Whoa. I can’t believe I am admitting this in a public forum, because I am really ashamed by it, but I have the same thing. Many of my fantasies involve being forced. I have wondered for years why this is. I think a big part of it (for me) relates back to the thing about “good” girls not being aggressively interested in sex. If you are being forced, your will and desires are being taken out of the equation. I think it also plays into the whole control thing. A part of me yearns for total loss of control while another side is absolutely terrified of not controlling everything. I feel so ashamed admitting this since I can’t even imagine how traumatic real rape actually is and it seems so unbelievable disrespectful to anyone who has actually experienced it. At the same time it is somewhat freeing to be actually admitting this.
Myrtle, I don't know if you ever got counseling after your rape, but if not, you might want to. Even now, it might help you work thru some of your sexual issues. Perhaps your fantasies are a subconcious attempt to turn your experience into something "better" than it was - something sexual and desirable, instead of something violent amd forced.
Nancy, Embarassing or not, I feel exactly the same way about bondage fantasies. I'm not sure why, but I think in part it has to do with the fact that I'm in a position where I always have to always be "in control" and so lack of control is very appealing. Being able to just let someone else take charge. (Or maybe I'm just lazy and I want someone else to do all the work? ) I never trusted anyone enough though, to consent to actually being tied up until my current husband and it is WAY tamer than my fantasies. Because fantasies are just that...I can think of a number of fantasies I NEVER want to actually DO.
Count me in as one who has tried the fantasies and am here to report that not only am I still alive, I am smiling at the memories. I don't think these fantasies have to mean that we are crazy or dirty or unbalanced. I say go with them, and explore (when you have the right partner and trust him). They're not at all uncommon fantasies to have. A little variety is the spice of life.
Infertyle, I agree with what Lilion says. In your case, it seems different than a tittilating fantasy. It would be a shame for you to spend the rest of your life unable to have a normal sex life.
Lilion and BattleAx- I hear what you are saying about counseling - and I appreciate it. Honestly, though, the rape happened 11 years ago. I feel like I have it as sorted out in my head as it is going to get and I just try to not think about it. The idea of talking to a stranger about it makes me sick to my stomach. I'm not saying this is the "healthy" thing for me to do - but I just honestly can't see myself ever seeking out the help of a professional on this issue.
Things have been better since getting married to a wonderful man that I trust and feel safe with. I think the past will evenutally disappear on it's own. I brought it up only because I was telling my "sexual story" and unfortunately that was a part of it.
Myrtle, I hope my statements to you weren't too personal or nosey or offensive to you. I just thought your post was worth commenting on and offering my unsolicited "words of wisdom" - not that I consider them to be wise in any way...just a suggestion. I certainly can't say that I'd do anything differently than you have done, as I've never been in your shoes. It sounds like you have a wonderful and loving partner in your husband and I hope all aspects of your life continue to improve.
To put some fears at ease, I learned in psychology classes in college that among women (whether they've been raped or not) rape, bondage, "mail order bride" and other sex without consent fantasies are perfectly normal, and in fact are in the top ten (I think actually the top two, but I'm not certain). Oddly enough, rape fantasies were almost as common for men as women (maybe one or two points lower on a scale of ten)
I remember a professor once making very clear (after some of the guys in the class started laughing) that rape fantasies were not in any way a desire to truly be raped. He pointed out that in loss of control fantasies, there is no real loss of control, because the fantasizer is really playing BOTH roles simultaneously. There is no real pain, torment, or fear of death involved. He compared it to liking rollercoasters and thrill rides because they simulate risk taking, but all along you know there is no real risk. If you like rollercoasters or other "plummeting" rides, it doesn't mean you'd want to be shoved off a cliff.
It's similar with BDSM activities. Everything (ideally) is consensual and safe and negotiated, and you get the rush of a roller coaster without the terror of actually falling off a cliff. Rape fantasies are very very common--almost a given, honestly. It's tremendously exhilarating to know that you're playing on that edge of danger and challenging "supposed tos" but still are safe.
I understand where you are coming from. I am single and gay (dont think this is related to my weight tho lol) but ive always felt that the norm of a relationship would never happen to me. I have over the years had one serious relationship...but even that didnt last that long. I remember at about 17 or so...thinking 23 would be the "perfect" age as i felt any older than that i would be expected to be in a relationship and i just knew i wouldnt be. And even now at 40 i cant imagine being in a relationship or people finding me attractive. Last year i made a friend online...who is gay too and we went to a dance together (as friends) i was stunned,,,,,the following week i had numerous people contact me online who Id met that nite saying they thought i was attractive or cute (one even called me gorgeous) ,,,, but even know...i dont believe those comments...i dont think people lie but i have a hard time believing thats how people could really see me. Anway thats my ramble...i think its a very relevant issue a lot of people have...and not just those of us overweight,...multitude of reasons...but do wish i fit into that "normal" category.
Kazz - Why is it so hard for us to see ourselves the way others see us? I think one of the best inventions ever would be some sort of special mirror or camera that would let us see ourselves as others see us. Have you watched that show "How to Look Good Naked?" at all? I am finding it really confronting, watching these women who I look at and think they are beautiful cry about how they look in the mirror. I think a great way to try and work through this is to try and look at ourselves and then talk to ourselves like we were a friend. If you had a friend who was saying the things about herself that you say about yourself, what would you say to her? How would you react? I think most of us would assure her that she is attractive, funny, intelligent, etc. (I make the assumption here that you like your friends) Why is it any different for ourselves? But it is, isn't it. Argh! Why is it so hard?
I still have a long way to go with this too. I am starting to face my fears with this and have actually just put up an ad on an online dating site.
I was going to post this morning but it took me wayyyyy longer to read through all of this than I thought and now I have to get showered and get to work...but I will post later.
However...I did make a semi-related post on the "UserNames...grrrr" thread a few days ago and wouldn't mind some feedback there.
Post coming soon...and thank you all right off the bat for being so forthright and honest. This is a topic that for some people is SO TABOO and it is really comforting to be able to discuss it...even with virtual strangers.
First...a disclaimer...I'm going to discuss being date raped. Please do not feel obligated to send me any type of message or response telling me that you're sorry. I know you are. I believe you. A big reason I don't discuss it is because people then have a tendency to treat me as "broken".
I was not heavy growing up. I was athletic...took dance lessons from age 7-12th grade. I had nice muscular legs and was in decent shape. My dad kept a pretty strict household as far as food was concerned (single dad)...so when I went to my grandmother's house...I loved to sneak into the fridge at night and snack on all the good stuff she had that we didn't have in the house. In high school...I was a size 8/10..but my friends were all 4/6 so I figured that I was really fat. I also had pretty big breasts that just showed up one day when I was in 9th grade.
I had boyfriends and started to experiement sexually (yet innocently) in the 7th grade. Jewish teens and pre-teens, when they all get together at youth group things and camp...we're freaking horny. It's true. So by the 9th grade, I had a pretty decent education..between talk, and trying stuff out and finding my dad's porn collection...LOL.
My best friend (T) lost her virginity in the 9th grade. She was always the pretty one (albeit flat as a board) and I was the smart one. So toward the end of 10th grade, when the friend of one of her older and very hot boyfriends said he was interested in me....I was floored. So we snuck out of her house one night and went to the beach. So this guy and I were down on the beach talking and making out while my best friend and her beau were up in the car doing..whatever...and things started to get more serious than I had planned. I was barely 15 and this was so not in my plan. In the end...I didn't say "no" because I feared what he would do...but I also didn't say "yes" either. I cried and I think I asked him to wear a condom. In the end I rationalized it to myself by thinking that it had to happen sooner or later anyways and if T was doing it then why couldn't I?
I was terrified of guys for the rest of high school..but I also wanted to be "normal" and have boyfriends. So I sought out guys who were much bigger and taller than I was...like they would protect me. First there was the school's heavyweight wrestler who was also our star Defensive lineman. 6'2 and at least 230 if not more. Then there was some other guy who was 6'5". Then there was the "nice Jewish boy" that I met who was 6'7" who I beat in foosball and in turn he got to take me to the movies. The first night...he was a total gentlemen and we had a fabulously sweet and romantic evening. He called the next morning to ask me out for a 2nd date. 2nd date...not so sweet. Suddenly he was an ocotpus and annoying to boot. We get back to my place and we're in the car saying goodnight...and he tries to force me into doing something I had NO intention of doing...and I told him so. It was distressing to say the least.
So off to college...where in the first week I met someone absolutely wonderful and adorable who I decided I wanted to sleep with...because I wanted to...and he wanted me (me?!?!). Well it was like a bell went off...and I realized that sex could be fun and freeing and not scary or angry or dangerous and that I was going to have as much of it as I could. I felt that I had reclaimed my sexuality and was going to enjoy it...ON MY TERMS.
Meanwhile..I had begun steadily gaining weight...I gained the freshman 15 on an annual basis...but up to a point I was still cute and curvy and the boobs didn't hurt. But this didn't seem to bother anyone..and what I wanted I got...boyfriends, hook-ups, whatever.
Towards the end of college..I discovered the internet (hello 1994) and started chatting in chat rooms. I met a few guys online with whome I exchanged phone calls and photos...a few even came to visit...and then I met J online. He was SO what I thought I wanted...stable, Jewish, career driven, good family, smart, etc. So I drove down to Ft. Lauderdale from school (4 hours) to spend the weekend...with the understanding in my head that if was a bust I'd go to my grandparent's place since it was up the street and I had the key. Well...what a weekend we had. We clicked right off the bat physically, emotionally...unbelieveably well and in short spent the vast majority of the weekend in bed. Everything seemed like it was great adn was going to go somewhere. I was mid-way through grad school and was starting to look for teaching jobs. I had so many options and having a wonderful boyfriend was just the icing.
So I was packing my bags to go home and he sat down next to me and with all of the sincerity he could muster said:
"This was an amazing weekend and you are amazing. You are so much of what I have always wanted in a woman and in a future wife...smart, beautiful, Jewish, my family loves you, you're funny...etc. etc. IF ONLY THE THIN GIRL INSIDE YOU WOULD COME OUT...THEN YOU WOULD BE PERFECT."
Was I devastated? Oh yeah. It was also around that time that I realized that my weight gain and my re-claiming my sexuality went hand in hand. Why? If I was heavy...I wasn't going to get raped again because I wouldn't be desirable like that. Who rapes the fat girl? So I grew the fat suit so that I could have 'safer sex" my way and not feel threatened.
I'm nuts. I know it.
I am now happily married and have been for a whopping 14 months. We're still blissful newlyweds...to an extent. When Jason met me I was a 24/26. he loved me then. We joined WW together because he also wanted to get healthier. I lost 90 lbs and went down to a size 18. He loved me then. he has continued to love me as I have regained my weight and gotten heavier again. He tells me that I am beautiful. I think he is a liar. I don't see it. My brain won't let me see myself as beautiful as long as I am fat...becaue I can't see through the fat. When I was losing weight...I felt sexual again. The heavier I got, the less interest I had...at first it was not wanting to be naked and fat..and then it was being unable to understand why I was sexually desirable. This has now become a big issue between us. He stays up late and by the time we go to bed I have already fallen asleep on the couch. When we do go to bed at a decent hour I don't feel the urge (not because of him) so now we both ask each other why we don't have sex anymore.
I know that I have to get past this...for both of us. I love my husband more than anything else and although he says he loves me regardless I feel that he deserves better. We're both back on WW together again. When I had a breakdown and quit, he sort of quit with me and I finally mde him admit that he was gaining weight so I wouldn't feel bad about him succeeding while I was failing.
Sorry for the long post. I haven't actually written all of that out before and now I need to go have a good cry so I can get back to work.
I know my weight has been the one thing that has held me back from committing to a relationships but at the same time I’ve always enjoyed being single. I am hoping someday that there will be someone out there for me to settle down with and hope to join a dating agency when I’ve dropped say another 50lbs.
I suppose it’s all about confidence and although I have lots of it put me with the opposite sex and I freeze and I think my weight is to blame for that. I’ve had plenty of offers on my holidays from nice men as well as some who I wouldn’t touch with a bargepole but I’ve never taken it further…
Most of my close girlfriends where sleeping with there boyfriends in there teens and it was cool to talk about it, I had my share of boyfriends in my teens but I never let them push me into anything since my parents would have KILLED me if they’d found out! Lol …
I think in my own way I regret not experimenting more as a teenager because just maybe I might have had more confidence now!
This is a introguing and multi layered discussion. I have had some dealings with the fantasies too..more on the bdsm level with a past partner...but i also dont discuss them with other friends etc...i think in that sense im quite liberated and if both enjoy then i say go for it lol.
A friend once told me when someone compliments me and i turn around and disagree with them...that i am basically insulting that person and their opinion...im saying i dont give any credence to their opinion...so in that sense i now try not to be negative when someone says something like that to me...BUT deep down i still cant see how anyone can see me in that light of being attractive etc
I see so much of me in so many of these post.
I have been heavy since I was about 6-7. Sex was never much of a mystery to me. What I didn't over hear from the adults in my life I learned from friends and books I would read at the library. By 5th grade I had boobs and the boy who had been my best friend since we were infants noticed. At 11 we did a little experimenting though nothing serious. I never had boyfriends, but I had guy friends and a couple of those I were "friends with make-out benifits". When I was 15 I decided I was done with my virginity. At the time I was good friend with a guy and spent a lot of time with him. We had messed around but nothing really serious. One weekend I bought a box of condoms and ask him if he wanted to finish what we had started. We both lost our virginity that day and truth be told I don't regret any of it. We were never boyfriend/girlfriend...just good friends. Our relationship was on/off for the next couple of year,whenever we weren't involved with other people. The whole time I was heavy, but it never made me feel less sexual.
The year after I lost my virginity I met the guy who is now my husband. He never made me feel fat, never made me feel bad. We had a great sex life for years,but our relationship was on again/off again and I gained more and more weight. We moved in together in 1994. He was playing in a band and I would go and watch. All these really gorgeous thin girls would fawn all over him and I would look at myself and feel horrible...like I was ruining things for him. Our relationship and our sex life suffered. I hated myself more and more. I am pretty sure he pushed the envelope with cheating a few times that year, though I never said a word...I was too afraid of being left all alone, after all I was so fat by then no one would want me.
Our sex life got worse and worse and I finally sat myself down and said a prayer. I ask God" if I am supposed to be in this relationship please send me a sign." I made up my mind that if something didn't give, if there was no real sign, that I would end the relationship by New Years. Three months later I was staring at a positive pregnancy test.... I figured that was my sign. I felt good during my pregnancy, things got better, though never back to the twice a day 5-6 days a week it was in the beginning. After my oldest was born we got married and I started the depo shot. I was doing LA weightloss and was still gaining weight. I felt horrible, depressed, like I was going crazy. I started to hate sex. I quit the shot but even a year later I still hadn't gotten any sex drive back I got pregnant again and miscarried. My third pregnancy I gained a ton of weight that wouldn't come off. I couldn't stand to look at myself.
Through it all my DH has been there and been great.Always trying to make me feel sexy and complimenting me. Always supporting me in everything. After ten years of marriage, 3 kids and very little sex he never blames me. He has the sex drive of an 18 year old...always wants it, loves to experiment and play. I have never recovered a sex drive. I hate the way I look and hate having him see me. I am heavier then I have ever been and he still wants me, yet I feel hideous and always have an excuse. When we do have sex it is always a "quicky" in the (TMI) doggie style position so that a) he can't see all the rolls of fat and B) so I can breath. The lights are off...there is no fore play(my choice), I just want it done and over with. WINTERSTARZZ SAID IT
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I still have a ton of issues. Mostly with my body. When my husband tells me I am beautiful, I turn away and make a silly comment. I try to be "cute" about it, but in reality I know it is because I don't believe him. If I can't even stand to look in a mirror at myself, how can he bare seeing me? How can he stand touching me? How can he bare making love to me?
The worst part is that no matter how much I tell him otherwise, he thinks it's about him. He thinks I don't find him attractive, that he is doing something wrong. This of coarse only makes me feel more horrible and depressed, makes me hate myself more. I have tried to explain, but he doesn't understand. Our whole relationship is suffering. I can no longer stand to be touched and DH is a very touchy feely person. We don't sleep in the same bed because I can't stand to have someone that close. Sex is uncomfortable and makes me hate myself more.
I am hoping and praying that my sex drive is buried under this fat and that I can dig it out soon. I love my husband and don't want to keep hurting him by making him feel worthless and unattractive.
This is a great thread, since I know people don't really want to face how much weight effects all aspects of their lives. My husband, who is very good looking, I am not just saying that because he's my husband LOL But he used to model. He has zero ego too, which makes him even cuter. People ask me all the time if he is full of himself. He is so the opposite. He is hilariously funny and super generous.
When we got together and I was thin all we ever heard is, your babies will be beautiful...you know the line. So, here I gain over 180 pounds. I sometimes can see the shock in people's faces when he introduces me. He has NEVER acted ashamed of me, not once.
The funny thing about this, is I know he came from a fat phobic family, and I think his love me, blinded him to most of it. I am sure, he has wished I'd lose. But we went to Valentines dinner one time out of town and he just pushed me against a light pole and made out with me right on the street. I was thinking, first, wow this is fantastic, and then I thought, wow, people will be shocked he is kissing that fat woman... isn't that sad??? We've been married 22 years this july.
So, over the past year though, when I added another 44 pounds to my 300, I noticed out sex life is really nearly gone. I've had health issues, like the hysterectomy/cancer and all, but even before that, it was slowing down. He never stopped holding hands or really acting different, but I did notice how much of my confidence was tied to us having a regular sex life.
Now, I suddenly feel like the fat blob, I know I shouldn't use him for confidence, i have been searching that out on my own. But what is funny, as a teenager, I was about 20 pounds oveweight, but it never stopped me from dating. I had a great time.
But with me being 330 pounds now, when I told a story to my son's girlfriend about how my friends and I went backstage at so many concerts and had so much fun, all she could see was the 330 pound me... so, I had to pull out the pictures of the 80s metal child. LOL and she was blown away it was me. Then I thought about it for a while, why did I feel so weird telling that story, like I didn't live it, like it was me talking about another person.
I just don't want to be sound vain, or be vain, after losing weight but I do want to feel sexy again. when my husband came home after not seeing him for two months out of town, I was stunned again by his good looks. Isn't that funny after all this time? I wondered if that time apart, he was able to have his blinders off to me? Like Wow, she really did gain a little more weight while I was gone.
Ever since the cancer thing during the summer, he has been a little more 'hinty' about losing the weight for health reasons. I think it scared the **** out of him. And it was a cancer directly related to being fat, so I understand all that.
i think, what if he gained all this weight, would I be as nice as he has been to me? WHen he gained the 30 pounds, it was all in his tummy and his face filled in a little bit, he has a cut jaw, so it was noticeable. I thought, he needs to lose weight... can you believe I Thought that? I was ashamed of me, ME being the fat one.
I never said a word to him and of course, he lost it, but I am sure there are many times, he'd like to walk into a room and feel proud that his wife was in shape. I am so proud when I am with him. I guess part of that was, when he came home, we just didn't have sex, and I am to that point, where I feel I need to lose some more weight before I approach him on it.
He had a way to make me feel sexy at 300 pounds, that when I look back at that, I am almost embarrassed by it. Like how could I feel sexy at that weight.
I am now trying harder than ever to do this, for me, not him, but for me, my health is a risk factor now, so I I want to make sure I stay healthy, and then I think I will regain my confidence like that. Through all my hard work.
I am ashamed even that we aren't having sex, yeah it's hard when you are 1,000 miles apart, but like I said, even before then, we weren't having sex like we did and I know in my heart, maybe he has 'seen' me now for being fat. I don't know, but I would never tell anybody else this. I guess people don't realize that even being overweight, you still want to feel wanted....
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) I never trusted anyone enough though, to consent to actually being tied up until my current husband and it is WAY tamer than my fantasies. Because fantasies are just that...I can think of a number of fantasies I NEVER want to actually DO.
