I didn't assume, but Andrew's post is a slippery slope kind of thing. Women shouldn't have to worry about projecting a certain kind of attitude at all to avoid certain kind of attention. We constantly see advice on how to carry yourself to avoid this, and avoid that but hardly anyone tells men that "hey! Women aren't there just for you to look at! They're people!" The root of the problem is those men, not whether or not a woman can project a certain kind of attitude.
At the risk of getting off topic, I DO think men can and should project this type of attitude if desired. I know my husband does towards all the 18 to 21 year old ladies he has classes with. He wants nothing to do with them and they know that without him having to say a word.
Sorry, but HUMANS are visual creatures. If one finds another attractive they're probably going to at least glance and that's OK. And it's (usually) OK to make a friendly, non offensive greeting or small talk with someone. Heck, it may even lead to a friendship if nothing else. I do not seek this so I do not open myself up to it.
However, it seems like what you're saying is people can't be attracted to you? And I understand you have a ring on but they may not see it, some people don't even think to look anymore.
It's my opinion that this is such an extreme view that puts nice men off from even attempting to approach an every day woman in a normal situation. I know plenty of nice men in my life and yes, they look at attractive women - I know plenty of nice women who look at attractive men.
Last edited by XLMuffnTop; 11-09-2011 at 06:54 PM.
I wish I had a solution for you, OP! I find that old men are more overt about their (dis)interest in me than younger guys, and often just the fact that they're so much older than me makes an interaction uncomfortable. (I have been propositioned for sex in my local laundromat and chased down the street and called fat, both by men who were definitely over 50.)
Assuming Japanese people ever think I'm small enough to be attractive, I'm just going to take every look/comment as a compliment. Of course I'll stay alert for creepers to be safe, but I'll take any ego boosts I can get in this country.
Man its been 5 years since I've been hit on!! I remember it use to creep me out though. One "bad" thing I have to look forward to when I lose the weight..
I wish I had a solution for you, OP! I find that old men are more overt about their (dis)interest in me than younger guys, and often just the fact that they're so much older than me makes an interaction uncomfortable. (I have been propositioned for sex in my local laundromat and chased down the street and called fat, both by men who were definitely over 50.)
Assuming Japanese people ever think I'm small enough to be attractive, I'm just going to take every look/comment as a compliment. Of course I'll stay alert for creepers to be safe, but I'll take any ego boosts I can get in this country.
Ooooo... the NERVE! That makes me angry just reading it - I can't believe they have the (stones) to chase you down the street calling you fat! Unbelievable!!
At the risk of getting off topic, I DO think men can and should project this type of attitude if desired. I know my husband does towards all the 18 to 21 year old ladies he has classes with. He wants nothing to do with them and they know that without him having to say a word.
Sorry, but HUMANS are visual creatures. If one finds another attractive they're probably going to at least glance and that's OK. And it's (usually) OK to make a friendly, non offensive greeting or small talk with someone. Heck, it may even lead to a friendship if nothing else. I do not seek this so I do not open myself up to it.
However, it seems like what you're saying is people can't be attracted to you? And I understand you have a ring on but they may not see it, some people don't even think to look anymore.
It's my opinion that this is such an extreme view that puts nice men off from even attempting to approach an every day woman in a normal situation. I know plenty of nice men in my life and yes, they look at attractive women - I know plenty of nice women who look at attractive men.
I've reread my post several times and I'm trying to figure out where I said the following:
1) It's not ok to look at other people
2) People can't be attracted to me
3) Men can't talk to women
I never said any of these things and I really believe my post was misconstrued. I'm talking about actual harassment, not friendly small talk or the occasional glance at someone. I've experienced men grabbing me without my permission, not leaving me alone when I make it clear I'm not interested, looking at the ring on my finger and still trying to get me into bed, and more. Is any of this my fault? If I just "projected" a different attitude would I suddenly be ok? No! The problem is with these creeps, not with me. I'm tired of hearing "well if you just did this, they would leave you alone!" Sorry, I don't have to do anything. Men need to learn that it's not my sole purpose in life to look pretty for them. I'm not an object, I'm a person.
Is it ok to look? Sure! Is it ok to stare? No, that's creepy. Is it ok to talk? Sure! but if I say I'm not interested then leave me the **** alone. If you keep trying to pick me up after I say I'm engaged? Also creepy.
You may want to look at this feeling as a reason why you put on the weight, a shield. Learn to send body language that you are not interested and this will help. There are ways you can sit, stand, that you send a guy the message, believe me I know.
Being a survivor of work place sexual harassment (he finally got fired 8 months after I reported him and after a second victim came forward) as well as being a survivor of childhood sexual molestation from my then 18-year old cousin, I would like to know what body language cues I should do to avoid the probablity of being victimized ever again. Please feel free to send me a private message or post on here.
I'm sorry, I think Andrew is being unfairly treated here. He, at no time, said that women invite harassment/creeps by their projected actions - the thread was about unwanted attention. I'm sorry that some of you have been through such experiences (and I have been a victim of sexual assault myself) but I believe, unless he otherwise says, that he is suggesting that there are ways a woman can make it very clear she is not interested in any attention (ie. a look, glance, smile, approach) by the way she acts/projects herself.
Many of you have said it yourself that you have some kind of "***** stare" or whatever that wards people off from approaching. I think that's basically what he is talking about, unless of course, he is talking about inviting men to sexually touch you (which is quite the assumption and perhaps projecting our fears rather than what he is actually saying!!!!).
Being a survivor of work place sexual harassment (he finally got fired 8 months after I reported him and after a second victim came forward) as well as being a survivor of childhood sexual molestation from my then 18-year old cousin, I would like to know what body language cues I should do to avoid the probablity of being victimized ever again. Please feel free to send me a private message or post on here.
There is a difference between having someone react abusively towards others and someone acting interested. I've had guys who have not been able to take hints even if the 'hint' is telling them to leave you alone. On the other hand, if someone is finding themselves being hit on by a lot of guys then there are physical cues to let them know that you aren't interested. Sometimes guys will pick up the hints successfully. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to those that are abusive and don't care what you'd tell them physically or abusively.
And one of the hardest things for an SA/harassment victim to overcome is being able to have any sort of faith/trust in men again. Most victims, rightly so, struggle with the idea that a man can have honest intentions or even is just clueless when a woman rebuffs his advances. Note that there is a big difference between a clueless man and one who intentionally refuses to accept a rebuff. For example, if a man asks you out and you don't want to go out - some women say "uhh... maybe another time". To a woman, that means no. To a clueless man, that means literally it - maybe another time.
One of the biggest struggles I faced when overcoming my SA (I was 19 at the time) was to believe that there were men who were not "out to get me". It's hard distinguishing that. I think, unless he states otherwise, Andrew is simply talking about how to rebuff the men who you just aren't interested in, not those harassing/assaulting you. For a victim of SA/harassment it is very easy for your mind to automatically go to "that place" where you are instantly perceived as a victim again on any sort of similar topic but let's step back and not automatically make such awful accusations (as Andrew has basically been accused of blaming the victims of assault)
I also took AndrewCribbs post to be saying essentially the same thing as many posters who talked about using body language to say they aren't interested. As Sacha said, several people had already discussed ways in which they try to use body language to project "not interested" in situations like the OP was talking about. I didn't see anything in that post that was victim blaming or about molestation.
I do understand that many women have had unwanted physical attention that they were unable to avoid, no matter the body language or verbal language they used.
I also took Andrew's post to mean that there are ways to use body language to project that I am not interested. I've had discussions with friends, and quite a few of us, myself included, have mentioned that we use body language cues. Unless I am having a conversation with someone, I don't make a lot of eye contact with someone I have no interest in. I was at a coffee shop with a friend one time and she was eyeing a guy she was interested in. I turned around in my seat a few times to get a better look, and thought "I should stop looking, he will think I'm interested", because I noticed that he saw me looking. A few days later, he turned up at the place where my friend and I both worked, and sure enough, he gave me the attention. Now, I'm not saying he was interested, but in case he was, I didn't want him to think I had interest when I had none. I didn't feel angry, just the usual awkward feeling I get sometimes when I realize someone likes me in that way and I don't feel the same.
I have found that the undesired attention I receive isn't because I don't like it but rather because I've never had it before, so I don't know how to react, what to say. It's flattering, no doubt, but I'm not used to this stuff, so I don't know how to take it.
But no, I have no approached men IRL.
I say approach them. I dated my husband at around 250 lbs, which is smaller than I am now, but not too tiny. Some guys don't care about a woman's weight (there are lots of people who are overweight and in great relationships). If they don't like you, you'll know after talking to them.
