Ok,so you're not into girly stuff,that's who you are,no need to apologize or explain yourself! I am your polar opposite,the more glitz and glam,the better,but Ive been that way since I was little.To me it isn't conforming to what society thinks I should be like,for me it makes me feel good,and what I do for a living makes women feel good about themselves as well..Vanity drives my business so thank goodness there's alot of girly girls in this world,or Id be out of a job! LOL!
Anyhoo...I wouldn't call you a tomboy! You're a natural girl! If we were all the same how boring would that be!
IMO, "girly girls" define themselves by subjective character. Meaning, they see what society defines as feminine and they materialistically define themselves that way by doing what is popular for pretty girls at the moment. In the past, that meant wearing certain colors, mani/pedi/facials, etc., not lifting heavy, doing aerobics or step classes, yoga or pilates, etc. ALL ARE FINE.
I think what you're saying here is it comes down to nature vs. nurture and that girly girls are that way because society has raised them to be so. There's a part of me that agrees with that, BUT.
My friends are mostly not girly girls, because, well, they're my friends and are therefore more like me than the general population. My friends are also of the sort to shield, to a greater or lesser degree, their young children from overload of media images/messages. However, amongst my friends young daughters, there are plenty of girly girls. These kids were not pushed into it. We're talking little kids here, so they're obviously not tweezing and shaving and flirting. But they love pink. They love dresses. They love princesses. Don't like getting dirty. Love playing house and with dolls, don't much care for trucks and wrestling.
I guess I think girly-girls are a natural phenomena. Maybe the specifics of what a girly-girl does vary with the times in which she's growing up, but there's something innate. There are gender differences between boys and girls. Perhaps society's emphasis on the girly-girl comes from the fact that girly-girls are a more prevalent variety of girl.
That said, they're certainly not the only variety of girl, as this thread proves, just as the macho boy isn't the only variety of boy, and thank goodness.
And to the poster who thinks guys aren't into tomboys? All the guys I ever dated were.
I think young children are hugely susceptible to outside influences apart from their parents! School, friends, the media, you name it. A friend of mine jokes about her six year old's "patriarchy-infested brain", as despite being raised by two couples who are very definitely not pushing gender stereotypes, she is mad for pink and princessy stuff. So is her young male cousin, come to that, but as that boy grows older he is going to encounter a lot more people telling him that little boys mustn't like pink and girly things, and I expect that he will give in to the increasing pressure to conform to some extent. I also hear a lot of parents complaining that even if you want to raise your children without gender stereotyping, the society we live in makes it very hard. Try outfitting a girl in the shops entirely without pink, for instance.
When I was a child, it didn't occur to me that I had a choice about playing with dolls vs. wrestling. There was no indication that there were any other options, and I was too young to think of rebelling. Being an enthusiastic child in a general way, I took part in girly activities with equal enthusiasm, because that's what there was available to do. As I grew older and developed my own personality, I had the chance to explore options which fitted me better. I was an only child, and my mother was definitely pushing girliness - it was a huge relief when she took down the floral wallpaper and painted my room plain white when I was ten, and I still had to put up with annoying pink floral furniture for years. My second cousin, who has two brothers, remembers me as being relatively girly as a child, which surprises me since I never saw myself that way. Oddly, I see her as more girly than me now, but I shouldn't make too many assumptions based on her choice of handbag!
I'm never entirely sure where the line between gender as construct, the idea of a gender role, and core gender identity are drawn, but most of what the world thinks of as masculinity and femininity is a social construct. I've never in my life heard anyone transsexual say that they realised they should have been born into the body of a different sex based on whether or not they like pink. For starters, the idea that pink is for girls is relatively recent, the Victorians assigned pink to boys (watered-down version of good strong masculine red) and blue to girls (associations with Mother Mary). Even when you're in a position of relative privilege - male, cisgendered, or straight - social pressures concerning gender are still restrictive.
I enjoy many of the things we think of as girly, but I do so aware that they are a construct. Gender performativity is fascinating and more to the point, it's fun. I like painting my face when I'm in the mood for it; I don't like being pressured to do it every day. I love seeing men and women in drag, and it certainly makes for the best parties. I love seeing men who manage to look macho while wearing eyeliner. I will happily drool over women in top hats and tails (and so will some straight women, may I add). I love androgyny, even though it's not my personal style. I love the way that masculine and feminine clothing can be combined on one person in a way that is incredibly sexy, and I love seeing people broaden their horizons.
Just on pink: there's been a lot of pink in men's clothing in the last few years. We have the shirts and the socks here to prove it. Actually, my SO bought the pink shirt specifically to wear to school events as subversive education. The DB was about 6 and there was a lot of "colour-coding" (his term and we use it still) around at the time.
Last edited by silverbirch; 07-25-2011 at 04:07 PM.
I think what you're saying here is it comes down to nature vs. nurture and that girly girls are that way because society has raised them to be so. There's a part of me that agrees with that, BUT.
My friends are mostly not girly girls, because, well, they're my friends and are therefore more like me than the general population. My friends are also of the sort to shield, to a greater or lesser degree, their young children from overload of media images/messages. However, amongst my friends young daughters, there are plenty of girly girls. These kids were not pushed into it. We're talking little kids here, so they're obviously not tweezing and shaving and flirting. But they love pink. They love dresses. They love princesses. Don't like getting dirty. Love playing house and with dolls, don't much care for trucks and wrestling.
Excellent point. Some are born that way. As an adult, though, we make choices to remain that way, or change to be more like a certain way.
I don't find anything wrong with either way. I'm an athlete. Yet I always wear makeup to my athletic events. I love being feminine, but my closet mostly contains black - it looks better against my blonde hair.
Maybe I am going through a phase (in fact I'm probably certain of it) but, being on my own now and having lost weight, I am enjoying getting back in touch with myself and finding that I do like "girly" things. I am wearing more feminine clothes (skirts, ruffly tops, trendy shoes) and makeup (colored eyeliner, eyeshadow that's not just gray or brown, lipstick and not just lip gloss). I never thought I would be one of those girls that does these things. I always felt like these were things that the "pretty girls" did and I was not part of it because I was overweight. I tried to keep a sense of pride by saying that I was better because I was not that way. Now, I am more relaxed about that and realize that it's just fun. It's playful and gives me something light hearted to enjoy. My nails are pink and sparkly. It makes me smile.
I've had a lot of the feelings that BeachBreeze describes, though with a difference in that I've felt sometimes I'm regressing a little & enjoying things I should have enjoyed about 15 years ago.
Berryblondeboys, do you work outside the home, and if so, what is your workplace like?
My grooming on weekdays over the past 30 years has pretty much reflected the environments in which I've worked. Currently, although I work in a male-dominated office, the women that do work there have a fairly polished look & even those that wear minimal makeup have styled & likely processed hair, & do wear jewelry. At the IT consulting firm that currently employs me, the dress is a bit more casual than it was at IBM, my previous employer. When I was in grad school, I dressed differently from when I was a newspaper reporter. And when I worked in a corporate law firm, I dressed & groomed even more than than I do now.
A woman's style & self-presentation is partly a gender choice but also part of her aesthetics, too. Everyone's an artist when it comes to her hair & clothes. Personally, I find clothes, makeup & hair very expressive tools, and often I'm very conscious of what my choices say. At times feel like a bit of an actress or performance artist. Or like every day is Halloween, only the character I'm playing is much, much more subtle than what people try to interpret on Halloween. There is an artistry involved & I appreciate when other people are thoughtful dressers. It's like knowing another language, being able to speak through your appearance.
My grooming on weekdays over the past 30 years has pretty much reflected the environments in which I've worked. Currently, although I work in a male-dominated office, the women that do work there have a fairly polished look & even those that wear minimal makeup have styled & likely processed hair, & do wear jewelry. At the IT consulting firm that currently employs me, the dress is a bit more casual than it was at IBM, my previous employer. When I was in grad school, I dressed differently from when I was a newspaper reporter. And when I worked in a corporate law firm, I dressed & groomed even more than than I do now..
This is so true. For a few years after college, I bounced around at a variety of office jobs, where business casual generally ruled the day. I was pretty comfortable then in skirts, slacks, cute little sweaters, etc. I never did get into make up, and my hair just can't be "done", but my clothes were definitely girlier. Then I started working in the field, and girly just wasn't an option. Sweat, dust, and mud is what you wore. When I moved inside the office, it was male dominated, and extremely casual. We were still working with those mud-dressed guys (yes, guys. There was only very occasionally another woman in the field.) There was one woman, an engineer, who always dressed up: dresses, suits, etc. I frankly thought she looked bizarre in our office, and even more so when I saw her on a site visit in her pumps. I fell into jeans, t-shirts, occasionally a slightly nicer top, but no, grooming was never crucial. Things went further downhill when I moved away and worked at that same job from home for another 3 years. Paint spattered sweat pants? No problem!
Now I'm back in an office, and struggle to figure out how to dress myself. The men here have a uniform: chinos and a polo, or chinos and a button down. (My mom, who I often shop with, and who is a physical therapist, also wears this uniform, and is a relentless advocate of it.) The woman, on the other hand, are across the board. Some dress very professionally. Some are quite casual. A disturbing number go for hootchie, which I can not get used to. I'm forever finding myself thinking, "Really? You're wearing that to work?" Short-shorts with platform heels? Tight mini-skirt with a chunky zipper that goes all the way up the back, from hem to waist? Is there some confusion about our profession around here?
So I have trouble figuring out where I should fit in in this gamut. Casual can pretty easily cross the line to sloppy on me. I guess I'm not tom boy enough to embrace the male uniform. Hootchie is out. Professional just doesn't sit that comfortably on me, especially since it's not what the professionals in my profession wear. So I've been on the look out for a look for myself. Every now and then I find something I like, and I'm hoping that I can just build on that, and eventually have a collection of things I like and dressing myself won't be such a struggle.
I don't consider myself "girly." I'd say that I'm more low maintenance with a leaning toward "plain."
Hair Removal: I pluck my brows, but only for special occasions. I don't shave my legs because I'm Asian and don't grow hair on them. TMI, but I do keep my girly bits neatly trimmed.
Hair Appearance: I wash, air dry and brush my (long) hair for special occasions. Most times, it's just yanked back in a pony tail.
Clothing: Around the house I wear baggy jeans or shorts and oversized tee shirts. I will wear this to the supermarket and for errands, too. Going out for a special occasion, I'll wear a dress or skirt (Hubby's preference). I never wear pink. Actually, I never wear color. My wardrobe consists almost entirely of black clothing, with a few brown items.
Makeup/Lotions: None. For a very special occasion, I will maybe use mascara and lipstick. I will moisturize if my skin is getting dry, but not as often as I should. Sometimes my hands are cracked soooo bad in the winter. I do try to keep my toes painted in the summer when they are exposed, but I never do my fingernails because they get chipped almost immediately (I am not scared to use my hands.).
Jewelry/Perfume: Wedding ring/band and a cross ring I wear for religious reasons. Earrings for a special occasion. Nothing else usually, unless I am really dressing up for a big event. No perfume, but sometimes scented lotion for a special occasion.
Overall Attitude: My personality tends to be more stereotypically "masculine." I don't like romantic movies, I prefer violent action films. (My favorite Christmas movie is Die Hard.) I like to think my actions are based on logic and reasoning rather than intuition or emotion. I am outspoken and very blunt, to a fault. On the other hand, Hubby does all the manly chores around the house. My posse is a group of very hands-on guys, and there's nothing I love more than watching a bunch of guys do manual labor (like build a deck or shed) with power tools and wood screws. For some reason, this really brings out my feminine side and makes me feel all girly about it. I do know how to flirt and did so a lot when I was younger, but these days I don't do it at all.
As someone who can skirt both sides of feminine and non-girly, I'll make this observation about myself: When I am at a weight where I feel attractive and when I think my body is looking good, I am MUCH more likely to wear skirts, wear heels, actually do something to my hair, etc. In addition, if I am going to a social setting in which I know men who find me attractive will be present, I am again more likely to dress up for the occasion. Even though I am happily married, I think this does speak to the idea that femininity, to a certain extent, is a social teaching designed to help us attract men.
Last edited by banananutmuffin; 07-26-2011 at 11:19 AM.
Wow you just described me! I HATE makeup so much that I almost didn't wear it on my wedding day lol but don't worry I was convinced to let someone put some on my before I left the house My husband always says to me, "you're such a guy" *sighs* but that's ok because I like not being a "slave to society" and my husband loves me me just like this too.
I'm a jeans and a t kinda girl. I only wear mascara, unless I have a bad pimple and use cover up. I can get ready in 45 minutes (buuuut I like to get ready slowly, so it usually takes longer with the sitting with my coffee bit, haha). I'm headed towards a career in wildlife biology and there is nothing I love more than being outdoors "playing" in the mud and what have you.
But, sometimes I like to dress up a bit. I've been wearing skirts/dresses more (okay, so I own 1 dress, a t-shirt dress) just because they are sooo much cooler/more comfortable in the summer. Occasionally I'll throw on blush, and if I'm going "out", eye shadow. All depends on my mood. I love wearing earrings.
Recently I've been painting my nails (...easier to hide garden dirt, heh), but would never pay for a manicure/pedicure. I have my girly moments, but I'm not afraid to get down and dirty either.
I can be a girly girl at times but my guy friends tell me I should be more girly when I dont let them have their way!!!! whatever... Im a girl I'm not a Pushover!!!!
I am your polar opposite,the more glitz and glam,the better,but Ive been that way since I was little.To me it isn't conforming to what society thinks I should be like,for me it makes me feel good,and what I do for a living makes women feel good about themselves as well..Vanity drives my business so thank goodness there's alot of girly girls in this world,or Id be out of a job! LOL!
