No, it's just that when a thread gets to about 500 posts we usually start a new one. This is not about the numbers in the book. It's just the normal progression here on 3 fat chicks. IE has been going here for about 2 years and a few months and we started with just IE and then when 500 posts accumulated we moved on to IE #2 and then 3, etc. Is this confusing?
No, it's just that when a thread gets to about 500 posts we usually start a new one. This is not about the numbers in the book. It's just the normal progression here on 3 fat chicks. IE has been going here for about 2 years and a few months and we started with just IE and then when 500 posts accumulated we moved on to IE #2 and then 3, etc. Is this confusing?
What about just a monthly thread? I think a lot of other threads do that.
Is there a nine thread? I don't wish to be discouraging to anyone, because we're all on our own path, but, all this talk about weights and measurements is making me nervous and confused. I thought the basic premis of IE was to try and not obsess about that. Principle eight is accept your body. I know it's a delicate balance, because everyone on here wants to lose weight. I thought of PMing some IE'ers, but wanted to bring my feelings to group level.
Amie
Hi Amie,
I just gave up the scale recently after reading how bad of an impact it can have on my mood and the feelings of failure it can cause. I don't plan to step on a scale until I can visibly see a difference in my body as well as clothes sizes changing. And even then, who knows, I may not want to step on a scale if I'm feeling good about myself. What's a number matter?! You are right, body acceptance is important and we all do want to lose weight. It makes it tough and weighing and measuring is just one of those diet mentalities that are hard to rid of. I guess it's just a personal thing depending on where each of us are on the journey. When I first came to the IE thread and up until around a week or so ago I had no desire to stop weighing myself. I was addicted to the scale and couldn't imagine how I could get by without it. Now I have a totally different view of it.
I am beginning to stress a little because I know that all the junk I've been allowing myself to eat is causing major bloating and possibly even some weight gain. Body acceptance is something I have a VERY hard time with right now. But, I'm really trying to focus on feeling good and learning to eat without restrictions. I don't want to undo everything I'm learning by stepping on the scale only to see it up from what I last weighed. I'm just going to chalk this up as a learning experience and keep moving on. I have been so drawn to sugary, fatty and salty foods ... candy, chips & dip, etc. lately so I've been doing way more snacking than I normally do. Guess it's like a long drawn out binge. Have restricted these foods so much in the past that right now I just can't get enough of them. But, when I take the time to listen to my body it does request "healthier" foods. I hope this phase passes soon so I can get on with things. I think I can tell a difference in the way I feel having been eating all this garbage. Besides the horrible bloating, I have a lack of energy, have been getting winded going up and down the steps and even had some breathing-related chest pains today. Not sure what that was all about but I'm thinking it's all the junk in my system ... body just not running on optimum fuel, I guess. But the second I tell myself I have to stop eating this way is when I find myself back on a diet, restricting what I eat. Like I said, I hope this phase passes quickly. I've also been experimenting with allowing myself to eat even when I don't have a true hunger signal as part of giving myself unconditional permission to eat if I feel like it (as the book says). I must say this scares me. I am finding myself eating just for the sake of eating. Really got to work on my "WHY am I eating" issues.
Well anyways, that's enough of my rambling. Have a great one!
We tried a monthly thread once but then everything really slowed down and so we went back to doing it this way. Usually people want a new thread by the time it gets to 500.
PRINCIPLE NO. 3: Eat whatever you want
Remind me what these principles are about.
Calorie counting? Count me out.
'Chinese for supper? Soft, warm noodles, crisp, salty seaweed and sweet fortune cookies. Yes please, that suits me perfectly....I'm hungry and that's exactly what I fancy right now. Oh, but wait. 150, 375, 480, 790, 995 - no, sorry, I can't. That would take me way past my total calories for today.'
Hands up who's done it. Totted up totals at the end of each meal or snack? Religiously recorded daily sums on weekly diet sheets? Despaired when the total is 'too high' and smiled through the hunger when the total is lower than usual? Ignored their body's needs and instead consulted the mini calorie counter before deciding whether a food can be eaten?
For all the horrors of dieting, calorie counting is there alongside the worst of them. 'Counting' foods - be it calories, syns or points - reduces something pleasurable to a number, a figure and nothing more. As Beyond Chocolate forum member Natasha explains, 'For me, the amount of calories can never begin to express the joy of a refreshing lolly on a hot day or the fun of pushing the 99 down into the cone to rediscover later when the luscious creaminess is almost gone.' After attending a Beyond Chocolate workshop, Ros too has reflected on her previous attitude towards food and comments that 'In my twenties I knew the calorific value of just about every food, in my thirties I knew the fat content of just about every food and in my forties I knew the point value of just about every food.' With Beyond Chocolate she has been delighted to discover that 'Now, in my fifties, I know the taste and enjoyment content of just about every food!' Think of your favourite food - can the crisp crunch of a new season apple be relegated to a 60 or your favourite home baked ginger cake demoted to a 400? A food's taste, texture and associations rightly refuse to be condensed into two or three meaningless digits.
Surely then, if people are still prepared to 'count out' their food, there must be a solid scientific basis for their actions? Actually, as Nutrition Consultant Surinder Phull explains, calorie counting doesn't work....
'As a nutritional therapist one of my aims is to encourage clients to shift their focus away from weight loss and start to concentrate on good health and enjoyment of food. Yet I am often met with an enormous obstacle - obsession with 'The Calorie'.
When I suggest that a veteran dieter might try butter, Brazil nuts, olive oil, cashew nut butter (absolutely delicious if you have never tried it!) or even avocados I can almost see the red alert signals flashing on their in-built calorie counter. I try to assure the sceptics that (although calorific) these foods may actually improve metabolism and help long-term weight management but all too often the calorie mentality kicks in. Too many calories are bad. Low calorie is good. Simple?
The problem is that our bodies are not simple. The way we deal with foods is complex and calories are just a crude indication of the effect food may have. Granted, if you were to severely restrict your calorie intake you would probably lose weight but that is tantamount to starvation and you don't need to do any clever calorific sums to work that out. Even beyond that, calorie counting is essentially flawed and here are a few reasons why.
A calorie is a unit of heat. Calorie content of food is calculated by the heat it generates in a device called a calorimeter. Well, there's the obvious flaw. Our bodies are not calorimeters. The way we digest particular foods varies enormously between individuals and depends on the quality and type of food we eat - not just its calorie content.
The second flaw is that not every unit of food we eat is used for energy. For example, certain foods are used for repair of muscles, building hair, nails or skin. Certain fats in particular are needed to produce hormones that regulate our blood sugar and metabolism and help maintain a regular weight. How much an individual needs to meet these requirements is impossible to measure in numbers.
So when I encourage individuals to focus on their needs, their bodies are supplied with the foods that make them healthier, happier and (if they need to) gradually lose weight. Science aside, experience has shown me that this really works. So if you are a serial calorie counter it is time to stop punishing your body with deprivation and gruelling mental arithmetic and start nourishing your body with the delicious foods it is crying out for.'
I totally agree carol. Calorie counting totally caused havoc on my mentality and I became obsessed in a bad way!
As for your question Jazzgirl, we're all at very different places on our journey so it's normal that we all frequent the scales at different times. But generally we're concentrating on just easting when hungry and overcoming the 'diet' mentality many of us have gained. So we dont 'concentrate' soley on the scales, but I for one am also being treat for binge disorder so in order to be less obsessed but not in denial of my weight I have to weigh myself weekly. It's juat what about makes you happy, you might feel comfortable not weighing/measuring, and thats fine.
100-calorie packs may not help dieters
TEMPE, Ariz. (UPI) -- Chronic dieters, who try to manage their weight and food intake, tend to eat more snacks if they're packaged in 100-calorie packs, U.S. researchers said.
Arizona State University study authors Maura L. Scott, Stephen M. Nowlis, Naomi Mandel and Andrea C. Morales examined consumer behavior regarding "mini-packs," 100-calorie food packages that are marketed to help people control calorie intake.
In a series of studies, the researchers assessed peoples' perceptions of M&Ms in mini-packs versus regular-sized packages.
The study, published in the October issue of the Journal of Consumer Research, found that participants tend to have conflicting thoughts about the mini-packs: They thought of them as "diet food," yet they overestimated how many calories the packages contained.
In subsequent studies, the researchers assessed participants' relationship with food, dividing them into "restrained" or chronic dieters and "unrestrained" eaters. The restrained eaters tended to consume more calories from mini-packs than "unrestrained" participants.
A calorie is a unit of heat. Calorie content of food is calculated by the heat it generates in a device called a calorimeter. Well, there's the obvious flaw. Our bodies are not calorimeters. The way we digest particular foods varies enormously between individuals and depends on the quality and type of food we eat - not just its calorie content.
The second flaw is that not every unit of food we eat is used for energy. For example, certain foods are used for repair of muscles, building hair, nails or skin. Certain fats in particular are needed to produce hormones that regulate our blood sugar and metabolism and help maintain a regular weight. How much an individual needs to meet these requirements is impossible to measure in numbers.
That's really interesting information. I have often wondered how it has been in the past when eating this way that I was able to drop nearly 20 pounds almost effortlessly. I would eat whatever I wanted but I tried to follow one simple rule, wait for a hunger signal. Didn't always happen that way but still, I was able to lose weight eating chocolate and fried stuff, whatever I felt like eating, and eat to satisfaction. I struggled getting in my minimum 3-days-a-week of 30 min of exercise, too. But still the weight managed to come off.
In my diet mentality I would not expect to lose weight this way because I wasn't doing anything - no restricting, no outrageous amount of exercise. And still I am puzzled. How is it that I can give my body the fuel it requires and lose weight? Shouldn't I break even? Maintain? Or is the answer right there in the article Carol posted?
Hehe, I had a box of 100-calorie packs. There were five packs in there. I ate them all in one sitting and told myself, "well, that was only 500 calories." HAHAHAHA! Ridiculous!
I did IE with my pregnancy (baby #2 is almost 2 months old), and gained 37 lbs, but lost 22 when he was born. NOT BAD!
I do think numbers are somewhat important, and have no problem weighing myself. And I don't think this is incompatible with IE at all!
IMHO, the most important thing is the TYPE of fuel you give your body. I'm doing the anti-estrogenic diet right now, and the basic premise is to eat as much as you want (yeah!), but of certain types of foods and at certain times of the day: organic greens and fruit all day long, and salad, beans, rice and fish in the evening. I've been pigging out on the healthiest food I've ever eaten and have still lost 5 lbs this week.
I am interested in the feast or famine cycle and will post a few articles about it.
The symptoms associated with eating and weight problems follow definite patterns. These sometimes confusing symptoms make a lot more sense when you look at them in relationship to one another. And recognizing these relationships can speed your (and your child’s) progress toward normal eating. In fact, I’ve found that understanding these patterns is crucial for anyone who is trapped in an eating disturbance and wants to be free.
The term “eating disorder” usually conjures up visions of emaciated girls working out at the local health club, their frail, overworked, skeletal frames sending shivers of aversion through most people who notice them. But people with disturbed eating patterns come in all shapes, sizes, and ages. In fact, many are overweight. Few realize that they (or their kids) suffer from definite eating disturbances because most people learn to accept their abnormal eating patterns as normal for them — symptoms of their defective appetites, bodies, and psyches.
Regardless of body size and peculiar type of eating struggle, the underlying root of all eating disturbances, with rare exception, is the same — undereating. (Undereating includes delaying eating, eating too little food, eating long after hunger signals are felt, missing meals, eating poor-quality food, and ignoring hunger.) There is one fundamental pattern of eating disturbance that flows from this common cause. This pattern is a cycle that applies to any kind of eating disturbance including a tendency to overeat, compulsive overeating, carbohydrate and sweets cravings and “addictions,” “food addiction” in general, and bulimia that does not involve purging.
I call the cycle associated with eating disorders and weight control problems the "feast or famine cycle." This cycle, or some variation of it, illustrates the universal pattern experienced by people with eating problems and pathological relationships with food. It also applies to dieters and informal undereaters, regardless of the degree of their eating disturbance. Whether symptoms are mild or severe, the patterns are the same.
A Case Study of the Feast or Famine Cycle
Marilyn was a chubby kid, and her mom was a very chubby adult. A 20-year veteran dieter, Marilyn’s mom was so fearful of her daughter’s becoming fatter and fatter as she grew up that she took her to a diet doctor when Marilyn was only 9. This doctor prescribed diet pills (amphetamines) to help little Marilyn lose weight.
Over the summer Marilyn lost 25 pounds on her first famine. This was a bit more than she “needed” to lose, and a serious weight loss for a child with such a small frame. Her body was transformed, and her mother was elated. But when Marilyn went back to school in the fall, she had to stop taking the diet pills. The doctor said they were only a temporary help because they were addictive.
Marilyn started gaining weight within two weeks as she shifted to the feasting side of the cycle, and by the end of the school year she had gained 35 pounds. Marilyn’s mom begged the diet doctor to give her daughter more diet pills to reverse the trend, but he said he couldn’t. He told her that Marilyn was gaining weight because she wasn’t sticking with the low-calorie diet he suggested. That was true, but it wasn’t the whole story. Marilyn’s eating was out of control because she was on the feast or famine cycle.
Marilyn continued to diet off and on throughout grade school — famines followed by feasts. Her mother took her to Weight Watchers with her every week for about a year. Marilyn learned to weigh her food and measure her portions. “Weighing in” at meetings was always nerve-wracking. Sometimes she did lose weight, but when she gained she was mortified. She never reached her “goal” with Weight Watchers, even though she put enormous effort and time into her diet. She knew she was cheating at times, but she got so terribly hungry. Her lack of control left Marilyn feeling like a complete failure. Her weight gradually went up because the weight she had lost, and usually a bit more, always reappeared.
Once, Marilyn overheard a lifetime member (a member who reached her goal weight at one time) “whisper” to her friend as she pointed at Marilyn, “If I had been that fat as a kid, I’d have locked myself in a closet and swallowed the key.” After that Marilyn refused to go.
But Marilyn’s mother didn’t give up. She took her discouraged daughter to her new church diet group a few months later. Motivated by the encouragement of the group members and afraid to fail again, Marilyn lost 30 pounds over the next five months. She was terrified of having her weight gain announced to the whole group — a fear that kept her from eating anything not on her diet, for a while anyway. When she knew the weight was coming back, her group attendance ended. By the time Marilyn leveled off again, she’d gained back 45 pounds.
Between formal diet programs Marilyn often skipped lunches because she was too embarrassed to eat in front of her classmates. She exercised, too, instead of eating breakfast, and she tried other diet tactics, such as eating only fruit on weekends or cutting out whole food groups, like starches. And of course, she overate (feasted) between her diet efforts (famines). By the tenth grade, Marilyn was 100 pounds overweight.
This sad story is a rather dramatic true example of how the feast or famine cycle leads to weight gain over time. Remember, it is the famine or undereating part of the cycle that gets it going and keeps it going. Technically, the feast or famine cycle has been misnamed. It should be called the famine or feast cycle because the famine is the trigger for the problem eating patterns that follow, including the feasting. The famines come first. This is an important fact because we have been taught the exact opposite for decades. We have learned that overeating or feasting is the main problem in eating and weight struggles. So we have spent 50 years trying to fix the feasting, trying to get people to eat less, to control their eating, to stop overeating. But we haven’t been very successful because feasts don’t usually happen all by themselves; they’re triggered by the famines. The famines come first, and it’s the famines that must be fixed to stop the cycle. The feasts, I have found, stop quietly as a result.
I have a question for experienced followers of Intuitive Eating:
I have been following this plan for only a few days now, with success, but I am having a hard time telling when I am truly hungry. Do you eat only when you feel pangs of hunger or when you are just not feeling satisfied? I have been waiting till I feel my stomach churning, but it means I go many hours without eating then I am all at once light-headed and desperate to eat. I am afraid after years of always overeating and eating out of boredom, I have forgotten what normal hunger feels like! Any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated!
You should wait until you are truly hungry but it may take awhile to figure it all out. If you wait to long you might overeat so it's good to eat at the first signs of hunger. We all get off track due to circumstances such as having company but after awhile we are really glad to get back to hunger and fullness.
Your Body’s Response to Dieting
Humans have a physiological ability to adapt their metabolism to
low calorie diets. This adaptation functions to reduce the calories
needed for survival during times of famine (poor food quality and
quantity). The body reduces the amount of calories needed to
function, conserving its fat stores to survive the famine. Each time
there is a famine, less and less fat will be lost as the body improves
its ability to conserve the fat. With every feast, the body increases
its ability to store fat and the amount of fat stored is increased. This
adaptation occurs much easier and faster in women than it does
men.
This metabolic adaptation is also started with low calorie diets,
usually under 1200 calories. The diet starts a famine, once you go
off the diet and increase your intake (the feast doesn’t have to be
much of an increase), weight gain begins. Each time you go back
on a low calorie diet and then off, you lose and gain fat. Each time
you lose less weight and gain more fat as your body gets better at
adapting. This cycle is also called YOYO DIETING and it will
continue until it is stopped.
Once you are in a Feast and Famine Cycle, there is only one way
out and that is by EATING MORE. This raises your metabolism to
a normal level for your age and activity. You will most likely gain
fat, but once your metabolism is at a normal level you can start a
reasonable food plan that allows a slow weight loss when coupled
with exercise/activity.
STEPS TO STOPPING THE FEAST OR FAMINE CYCLE
1. Eat more – Eat at least the minimum recommended servings of
the USDA Eating Guidelines. Start by adding foods little by
little if you haven’t been eating very much for some time. The
servings noted provide a range of calories from 1400 – 2400
with 40 – 50 grams of fat (see below).
NUTRITION
6-11 Servings of whole grain bread, rice,
pasta and cereal
3-5 Servings of fresh or fresh-frozen
vegetables
2-4 Servings of fresh fruit
2-3 Servings of low fat dairy products
(3 servings for women under 25 years)
� 1-2 Servings of low fat high protein
foods (meat, fish, poultry, cottage
cheese, eggs and beans) 1 serving = 3
oz. (about the size of a deck of cards).
*Eat at least 40-50 grams of fat each day.
Fat can be consumed as part of the foods
listed above, or as added fat to those foods,
such as margarine, butter, salad dressing,
etc….Check the food’s label to see how
many grams of fat are in the amount of food
you are eating.
*Eat some fat at each meal – at least 10-12
grams. Fat is the nutrient that tells your
brain you are full. Your body is
programmed to keep being hungry until you
eat fat.
*Some people need to follow a different
food plan that allows them to work on
emotional issues concerning their body and
food consumption. Non-Diet Approach and
Demand Feeding food plans allow people
with food issues to directly address their
emotional needs. For more information on
these types of food plans,
*You will probably gain some fat and some
muscle, as well as some edema (fluid under
the skin) in this step. This weight gain is not
permanent. You always end a Feast or
Famine Cycle with a Feast, it is not
permanent weight gain and you will lose this
weight.
2. Once your weight gain has stopped, your weight
will stabilize. Step one may last a couple of
weeks or months until your body recognizes that
the Feast or Famine Cycle has stopped and will
not start again. At this time, you will need to
reduce your daily calorie intake by only
200-300 calories,
while increasing your activity by only
200-300 calories.
This is a safe calorie reduction and will not
trigger your body to adapt its metabolism. This
will result in a slow and permanent weight loss
of .5 to 1 pound of fat each week. This weight
loss may not be noticeable for several months.
3. The concept of stopping the Feast and Famine
Cycle and gaining weight is difficult and painful
to accept for many people. The long term
result, however, is that by the end of 6 months
there will be some weight loss and by the end of
a year, you most likely will have permanently
lost 20 pounds. These pounds will not come
back unless you start another famine. Your
body will slow down its weight loss as you
approach your appropriate weight.
If you have more than 20-30 pounds to lose, it is
possible you will lose only 20-30 pounds and
then plateau – sometimes even for 6-9 months
before you start losing weight again. This is
your body’s natural response to making sure
that another famine won’t be coming.
Lynne Smiley, PhD
REMEMBER – these are only estimates. Your individual metabolism may be different.
1/2002
Or is the answer right there in the article Carol posted?
