OK, this is how my mom explained this to me after our own somewhat troublesome coming out drama (she sort of flipped for a while, both of my parents did, and then they adjusted. Now Sarah is literally, 100% a part of the family): Every parent, from the moment their child is born, gets a vision in their head for how that child will be. They picture everything - the first day at school, the wedding, the first grandkids, etc. There are parts of that picture that have to fundamentally change when your child comes out to you. You have to take a story you've been writing in your head for 16 or however many years, and you have to re-write some of the main characters! Often, this is really hard to do, and you go into a period of mourning for the characters you created. Straight-Nightengale-Shane has to be put away for good, and replaced with something new. Its sort of scary for a lot of parents, and if there is ANY way they can convince themselves that their old story can still come true, they will. Thats why hiding behind not being affectionate and not making things crystal clear to them isn't going to help the situation - they will be blind, if necessary, in order to preserve their story.
HOWEVER, the way you get someone to do that, to re-write that story, is to face them with the reality of what the new story will have to be. I'm not talking about making out in front of them. I'm talking about treating your gf like you would in front of any set of adults you wanted to be respectful of, and letting the chips fall where they may. Only then will your parents be forced to acknowledge facts and, if they can, rewrite that story. Ramp up the physical affection slowly, but make it clear.
You can't control whether they actually do it. Some parents would rather cast you out from their lives than rewrite the story they've worked so hard to create. By the way, "I did something to make this happen" or "where did I go wrong" are also the language of the "story", so to speak...they acknowledge the fears the parent has that they are somehow the reason the story they'd been working on for all of those years got "messed up".
I'd also like to point out that very Christian parents who cry about your homosexuality, ask if it is a phase, ask what they did wrong, etc don't necessarily fail to show up at ceremonies. We had Sarah's mom AND Godmother, both of whom cried about our "life choices", and one of whom almost didn't show at our ceremony, but in the end, they came. So please don't write them off - you never know what is going to happen with people. We never thought her mom would come, but she did, and she posed with the family and sat in the front and, actually, had a good time. If we had never invited her, we'd never know that she had the strength to do that.
to you. It takes some parents some time. I NEVER thought my parents would be as close to us as they are now. And Sarah CERTAINLY didn't, given her mom's past behavior (year she came out to her, Sarah's xmas gift from her mom was a Rosary...when Sarah had said she was no longer Catholic). But in a LOT of cases, even the ones you don't expect to manage it.
Last edited by mandalinn82; 11-01-2007 at 11:58 AM.
Wow, you have a heavy task on your shoulders. I read an article once where a woman, about to get married, had difficulty getting her father to accept her homosexuality. In fact, the father stopped talking to her after he realized that she and her partner were engaged. He didn't care for her until the day of the wedding, where he showed up in a suit, trying to escort her down. Eventually, he accepted that it was her choice and NOT his. I mean, in a way I feel that most non-heterosexual relationship strike parents as "alarming" initially if the parents themeselves were heterosexual. I think that there's always a chance of acceptance after they "get over it", especially if they really love the child, because the last thing loving parents would want is for their child to live a life that he/she just can't intuitively follow or like. It's almost irrelevant, I feel, for some parents to start preaching the bible when they first learn of it. In fact, it seems so utterly desperate to change an individual because they feel that they know better or what is right. I asked my mom on the matter of sexuality once, where I told her that I'm not quite attracted to EITHER sex. She didn't accept it and told me that eventually I'd change, but then few years later, she told me, whatever I did, so as long as I was happy, it was okay. The reason why she didn't accept it at first, was because she thought I was still "young" and didn't understand the nature of love and sexual relationships. But as I grew older, I was well aware of things and I still haven't changed my view, and my mother told me that she's okay with anything that I do now (I mean, in her eyes, I've probably matured and learned a lot more for my decision-making capabilities).
Cheer up , don't cry.
Last edited by veggielover; 11-01-2007 at 12:10 PM.
Oh yeah, Amanda put it best, act as you would in front of any adults you would be respectful of, no matter if you are gay or not. When my husband (then boyfriend) met my parents, we didn't touch in front of them at all. Same when I met his parents. We then slowly would hold hands in front of them or hug but really we don't kiss in front of them. We are very affectionate with eachother but in front of other people, especially parents and other family members, we rather not be.
At first, I was nervous enough about meeting his parents or his meeting mine.
Although I've never struggled as you have, I want you to know that not all families are blood-related and you have people here that genuinely care and are here to support you as a family should. So, please think of us when you are down--really! I feel as though you're a very strong person as am I and I don't let other people control my happiness and you shouldn't let others control your happiness either, no matter who they are, because you have that power.
I think you should stay strong, live your life with pride and dignity (as I'm sure you are), and always remember that you count. Know that there is a generation of people who accept people for who they are and the differences they make in this world. And that is what matters.
I do trust your family will eventually come around, but until then, invite your extended family (friends, co-workers, whomever) to your place for the holidays are share it with people you love and that love you.... ALL of you. You'll still probably feel some sort of emptiness to some degree, but life is too short to be unhappy. (I didn't speak to my Dad for about 10 years and I wish I had those years back now and I know he does too.)
Now, you can tell me to shut T.F. up too. But it would really sadden me if you spent the holidays sad. We're not blood, and have never met, but as strong women, we'll always be sisters!!
Wow, CABunnyGirl, what an insightful and well thought out reply!
"I think it would make a difference and help your parents to know this is not a choice, it is not about all about sex, and most of all, there is no confusion left in you so they needn't be confused either! " Oh, believe you me, I've tried I guess I just have to keep trying, eh?
I think it is wonderful that even after never meeting anyone gay or bi before, that when you met one and asked her why, she gave you an answer and you accepted it. This shows that you are an open-minded person who is willing to accept others before pushing them away and criticizing them.
I love the way you put this: "I believe that if you respect your parents, (and it may mean holding off on pet names and PDA when you're around them) eventually they will trust you and whom it is that you love" - respect them. That is a new term that I should introduce to my girlfriend regarding why we should not be affectionate. Currently, it is a matter of respect for their wishes, and respecting one little wish should not damper all the fun we could have with my family. It's no different than, say, taking your shoes off at the door and putting them on the hardwood floor before the carpet so that we don't tread dirt.
"You are creative, brilliant, successful and best of all, loved back by someone. " Awwwwwww thank you
mandalinn82 - I love the analogy your mom eventually told you. It's absolutely on point. Out of curiousity, how long did it take your parents to accept you and Sarah?
"Thats why hiding behind not being affectionate and not making things crystal clear to them isn't going to help the situation - they will be blind, if necessary, in order to preserve their story." <----this is the same logic that my girlfriend has, which is why she is upset about us hiding our pet names and "I love you"s that we say so frequently. She says that if my mom can continue living in her dream world, she most certainly will.
I'm amazed that Sarah's parents actually showed up at the ceremony, because I couldn't imagine my parents doing the same. My dad is a local politician up in VA and publicly speaks against homosexuality and gay marriage, while my mom is a converted Catholic (you know, those are always the most religious!) When I came out to them at 16, my dad said, "Ok" and stated that although he did not like it very much, there was nothing he could do, and he would still accept me. My mom, on the other hand, literally threw the bible at me. Now, are whether Sarah's parents are finally coming around on the acceptance front or whether they just went because they love their daughter and want to see her happy (even while not particularily liking the fact it's with another woman) doesn't even matter... I think it's GREAT that they arrived, and not because they wanted to burn the place down
veggielover - wow, you know, I think stating you're not attracted to *either* sex (and being old enough to know) probably baffles parents even more than being homosexual does! Your mom probably thought you were in a silly phase that she refused to accept because in her mind, that wasn't true. Like mandalinn stated, parents love to write the story of their children's lives, and your parents probably wrote a story about you getting married and having children.
aymster -
"Know that there is a generation of people who accept people for who they are and the differences they make in this world. And that is what matters." YUP!! And I am VERY grateful for this! I am so happy that I'm not living, say, in the Victorian age, or even the 50's or early-to-mid 60's, where homosexuality was largely closeted and considered very wrong. Back in the early 60's, it was ok to beat up queers (btw, I do not use this term in a derogatory way, I actually embrace it because it describes my fluid sexuality), so I'm glad I got to grow up in the 90's and 00's where homosexuality finally became more tolerated and brought into the mainstream. People are no longer afraid to come out of the closet. That 1 in 10 people = not straight rule has finally become visibly true (Kinsey stated this from his studies, but not a lot of people were "out" back then).
And aymster, I'd never tell you to shut up. Your kind, powerful words made me smile!!
Wow, Shy Moment, that's rather amazing that you were able to handle those situations harmoniously.
Now, I never called my parents any names. I have a good relationship with them, but it still saddens me that I can't share the person I love with them. It didn't really start making me sad until more and more time elapsed, as I wouldn't introduce anyone to them, male or female, until I felt like we were serious.
"I see no difference in this situation as in a family not wanting a womans husband around or a mans wife around." -- you are absolutely right, and if my girlfriend was a man my parents didn't accept, I'd still be upset that they were so against him, especially if I thought we might have future plans. I would still try to show them that he wasn't what they seemed to think he was and that I truly loved him.
I was perfectly okay with not discussing my bisexuality (and now I suppose gay since I'm in a monogamous relationship with a woman, but if we were no longer together, I would be bi again) with my parents because it was my business. I was single, so there was no reason to have extensive discussions about it with them. I told them when I was 16 because I was close to them and wanted to be completely honest. Plus, back then, I was a little confused, since my upbringing taught me to hate everyone who wasn't straight, and suddenly... oops! Of course, now that I am seriously involved with someone (who just happens to be female), I just really wish I could share her with my parents without getting any of the "GET your GAY stuff out of my house" type talk. Even if they didn't accept our sexuality, I wish they would just accept her and tolerate it enough to let us be in the same house together without fighting or bickering.
I don't feel like that is too much to ask.
FrouFrou - are you a mom? If so, I bet you're a great one to have that attitude. And if you aren't, you WILL be a great one when and if you decide to have kids. That is an amazing thing to say. Really. It may seem so obvious but is sometimes not put into practice.
Last edited by NightengaleShane; 11-01-2007 at 12:50 PM.
Reason: FrouFrou
I love the way you put this: "I believe that if you respect your parents, (and it may mean holding off on pet names and PDA when you're around them) eventually they will trust you and whom it is that you love" - respect them. That is a new term that I should introduce to my girlfriend regarding why we should not be affectionate. Currently, it is a matter of respect for their wishes, and respecting one little wish should not damper all the fun we could have with my family. It's no different than, say, taking your shoes off at the door and putting them on the hardwood floor before the carpet so that we don't tread dirt. You get it!
Remember, I never wanted to see my parents make-out and thankfully, I never did (they've been married now 44 years and I'm sure they have!) and now that I'm the mother of two sons (19 and 16), I don't want to see my sons make-out either! There is a time and place... And, frankly, PDA is not necessary to prove you belong to the other person or that you should be together. Let your actions and the respect you show others speak for your love and togetherness.
When my boys get in the back seats with their girlfriends the first thing I say when I hop into the truck is, "Everyone keep their lips to themselves." And, I know the boys are hoping that goes for me and my husband too!
Well, "accept" is a funny term. When they stopped being outwardly uncomfortable? Probably 1.5-2 years in, but we live very close and they saw quite a bit of us. My dad only started referring to her as my partner in mixed company (ie, introducing us to friends at work) after the ceremony, at which point we had been together 6 years and 4 months. And in terms of LANGUAGE, we still have some issues (Our ceremony had to be referred to as just that...no mention of "marriage" "wife" or "married" allowed. And yes, I had to send a memo on that to my vendors. But I'd rather call it something else than offend people (ok, offend Sarah's mom or my dad, who also had a religious upbringing and attaches certain religious traits on the word "marriage") on terminology issues). So it was a gradual process. They are very much "we love you the way you are" now.
Again, you NEVER KNOW who is going to support you. At the wedding, we had my very Lutheran aunt, who once took her son out for ice cream after he got suspended for calling someone a fag. We had my ex-military, staunchly Republican grandfather, and he danced with me at the reception and now treats Sarah exactly the same as he does my sister's husband. We had aunts and cousins and all kinds of people we thought might have an issue with it.
You know, Sarah's mom had a lot to struggle with on the whole gay thing. Backstory - Sarah's mom and dad got pregnant young, got married when Sarah was 1, and then divorced when she was 3-4 because Sar's DAD came out. So not only was it against her religion, but she also had to contend with negative feelings about homosexuality because it, basically, made her into a single mother. It was REALLY hard for her. But she showed! So please, take heart. People do surprise you!
mandalinn - Sarah's mom's story sounds somewhat similar to my mom's, only... my mom's father was gay, instead. He was in the closet until the last year of his life, though he had homosexual affairs while married to my grandmother which he denied but still ended up making everyone upset. Therefore, my mom believes homosexuality puts undying misery on the family. My dad doesn't like homosexuals (as I mentioned above) but he "took" the news a lot better than my mom did because he had no negative personal experience with it.
CABunnyGirl - I don't want to see my parents make out, either, and I would never EVER make out in front of them. By PDA, I meant more like "I love you" and pet names, and maybe a hand holding and an arm around... if my parents made out in front of me, I'd be nauseated. I'd like to believe I was dropped off on my parents' door step by a stork, because the idea of them doing anything else is pretty unappealing!
""Everyone keep their lips to themselves." " --that is so cute! haha.
That's for you! This is for being out here so we can get to know you deeper.
I am dealing with similar issues only on the other end. My adult child "came out" to me on March 12, 2007! She came to me first. I found this ironic since we had had a very stormy relationship, in spite of my efforts otherwise, for almost fifteen years. I "advised' her to NOT tell others at this point. My parents, her grandparents, were preparing for my Dad's surgery and both have health issues. I told my sister, her aunt, who has only gay friends although she is straight, and she HIT THE ROOF---which I thought was strange, odd and annoying!
I am Catholic but immediately accepted, loved and embraced my only child because she is my only child and she is my "flesh of flesh, bones of bones." You can't get any closer than that. I have told her repeatedly that I will support her no matter what! I am behind her 100%. I am not saying it was easy but I have moved through all of the emotions that you can imagine.
Her decision broke up an eight year relationship with her straight boyfriend who moved out yesterday. My heart is with you and your struggles but you sound strong and you will do fine.
pamatga - That takes immense courage and serenity to be able to immediately accept and support your daughter's coming out.
8 years, huh? Wow... she must have gone through a good amount of struggles to finally become okay with her identity to stick with a man that long before realizing. I'm sure he is pissed off and heart broken, even if it is nothing he did. Sometimes, when people tell their (straight) significant others that they are gay, they end up becoming the best of friends... I hope this can happen for your daughter
I do not have any great words of wisdom that have not been posted before in this thread. I was brought up in a sheltered environment to say the least. So when I left home it certainly was an experience and I saw actually what was out there in the big wild world. After reading about your Mum and Dad’s unwillingness to accept you for you I was filled with great sadness.
I wish that people would accept people for what they are not their sexuality. I find it so difficult to comprehend how people are so intolerable of a different sexual orientation. At the end of the day the person is the same person before they told them of their sexual preferences. For me the most important thing in the world is how a person treats me with respect not who they are sexually.
I hope that yours and Sarah’s parents overtime become accepting of who you are and who you love. I think it will take some time but I hope that the parental love for you or Sarah conquers all and they embrace you both as a partnership. In the beginning it may mean taking things very slowly by showing virtually no affection to each other or no pet names. But gradually as they accept that Sarah and you are serious about each other and it is not a passing phase. Maybe then you could slowly show affection and pet names. But it may mean some level of compromise by having the brakes on so to speak and never being really openly affectionate.
mandalinn - Sarah's mom's story sounds somewhat similar to my mom's, only... my mom's father was gay, instead. He was in the closet until the last year of his life, though he had homosexual affairs while married to my grandmother which he denied but still ended up making everyone upset. Therefore, my mom believes homosexuality puts undying misery on the family. My dad doesn't like homosexuals (as I mentioned above) but he "took" the news a lot better than my mom did because he had no negative personal experience with it..
One of the things I have reminded people of when they bring up stories like this as proof that homosexuality causes misery is to remind them that it wasnt being homosexual that caused the pain, it was ADULTRY that caused the pain. Pure and simple, grandpa cheated on grandma - who with is nearly immaterial. Now perhaps if he had been allowed to accept who he really was at a young enough age he would have never entered in to a covenant he was not prepared mentally or spiritually to honor. (of course then I am faced with the thought that if my parents hadnt been forced to pretend to be straight I wouldn't be here )
I think....long and short...are you prepared to hide for the rest of your life? You clearly love your family. I think it is time to be up front. As other posters have said, dont FLAUNT your relationship, be respectful, but also..dont act ashamed either. If you ACT ashamed and hide it you are "proving" to them that there is something to be ashamed about. Dont argue, dont plead, just BE. This is who you are, no shame, no defense necessary.
Right now you are writing their script for your parents just as much as they wrote it for you. You dont really know how they will respond. It may be ugly and heated and come around in the long run, it may be uncomfortable for many years. Or they may completely surprise you.
THe number of times I have worked myself up deciding how someone else was GOING to react and been wrong far out numbers the times I was right.
And your partner needs to think about that too - she is positive her parents will be worse than yours...nearly EVERYONE thinks that when bringing home a mate!
She started sharing with him about one year ago. He stayed with her for a year. In that time, my understanding, is that he helped encourage her to go to a support group which she did, seek counseling with a GLBTG counselor and even has her on his health insurance until the end of the year.
I think he struggled with it but he gave her a 60 day notice that he was moving out and he separated from her over a period of time, which I think a lot of long term relationships end up doing.
I love them both. He has a brother who is gay and whom he is very close with so I am sure he is getting the support that he needs as well.
No one likes to see any relationship, especially a good one, end but it explains to me why she seemed so angry at times to me. I tried to reach out but it was like trying to hug a porcupine---painful for us both! As she becomes more open with who she is she seems more calm. She even found an employer who was/is openly supported of the GLBTG. This was important to her. She will now have her own health insurance. Now, I am just worried about her affording $840 a month for her apartment. I just want her to have a stable rent-paying roommate!!
to you. It takes some parents some time. I NEVER thought my parents would be as close to us as they are now. And Sarah CERTAINLY didn't, given her mom's past behavior (year she came out to her, Sarah's xmas gift from her mom was a Rosary...when Sarah had said she was no longer Catholic). But in a LOT of cases, even the ones you don't expect to manage it.
I guess I just have to keep trying, eh? 
And I am VERY grateful for this! I am so happy that I'm not living, say, in the Victorian age, or even the 50's or early-to-mid 60's, where homosexuality was largely closeted and considered very wrong. Back in the early 60's, it was ok to beat up queers (btw, I do not use this term in a derogatory way, I actually embrace it because it describes my fluid sexuality), so I'm glad I got to grow up in the 90's and 00's where homosexuality finally became more tolerated and brought into the mainstream. People are no longer afraid to come out of the closet. That 1 in 10 people = not straight rule has finally become visibly true (Kinsey stated this from his studies, but not a lot of people were "out" back then). 
NightengaleShane
