I just wanted to post this verse as well.. it was in a discussion of karma...talking about the powerful nature of our thoughts and how what we think creates our reality, so to tread carefully and be mindful of our thoughts.
The thought manifests as the word;
The word manifests as the deed;
The deed develops into habit;
And habit hardens into character.
So watch the thought and its way with care,
And let it spring from love
Born out of concern for all beings.
I think that ourselves are included in the beings part.
Artemis, I love that verse...it makes so much sense to me. I have ALWAYS thought of myself as fat...even when I wasn't fat. And now I am and it's very hard to reverse the process that brought me to where I am. I suppose that being aware of all this and not just accepting that this is how I am, therefore how I will always be, is going to be what undoes what I have done to my body!
Thank you so much for the moment of insight! I will print that verse out and keep it in many places, so that I can always be aware of that thought!
I love this thread! Sorry I haven't contributed much, but I really don't feel as though I know enough to contribute. However, I am an avid reader here, and will jump in when I can! Thanks for the link to buddhanet, I'm still exploring that site with great interest!
Greetings to LKTS and dharmaspell! Welcome! I am so glad to "see" you.
I wanted to discuss precept 5, which is as follows:
5. I undertake to abstain from intoxicating drugs or drink.
I take this to mean a variety of substances, including alcohol and tobacco, and perhaps even caffeine. I believe the intent of this precept is to avoid having the mind altered by such substances--because how can one have awareness in an altered state? Thinking about it further, I also see that carbohydrates and chocolate are also mind-altering drugs. I'm sure you folks know what I mean.
Aside from the alteration of consciousness, these substances also tend to give momentary satisfaction, followed later by the craving for more. So the cycle of samsara continues.
Disliking one's body is such a difficult concept. I have gone through periods when I liked my body, and periods when I did not like it--especially in the last several years as I have watched my weight go up. But I think it's important to realize that there is only so much an individual can do to change his or her body. Our bodies came from our parents, grandparents, and so on. Yes, overeating will add pounds, but many people simply become heavier as they get older. Perhaps this is why people are inclined to say, "Once you are overweight, you must stay constantly vigilant." It's true, but only if you are trying to make your body something it is not.
Of course, I do believe in cause and effect, and so eating more calories than one burns in activity will lead to weight gain. I have proved this many times.
I want to weigh less than I do now, but I am likely not going to ever weigh 130 again, or even 140!
But this is not an excuse for indulgence. Mindfulness of what I eat is my goal, and making good choices.
Artemis, a "siege mentality" is a great way to describe it. I have read about metta practices and that does sound very helpful.
Jay, I think you're right. We do have to acknowledge our own physical setpoints etc. As someone who's tall and (honestly) kinda big boned, I've never weighed as little as most people would think of as a healthy range. Even in high school, when I was very active and a great shape, I probably weighed 160-170, which a lot of smaller people would consider huge. If I ever got below 150, I'd probably look like a concentration camp survivor!
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I too enjoy the conversation a great deal.
Quote from Artemis: "I try to give metta to myself..well that is the first part of the meditation. I found it incredibly hard, but was able to do so for others. I am saddened by my inability to think well of myself."
It really saddens me, also, to think that there are women (beautiful like Artemis and all of us) who cannot give to themselves what they give to husbands, children, parents and friends. In my practice, I have counseled some women who have this difficulty. Many of them (myself included) come from the Judeo-Christian culture that emphasizes self-sacrifice and giving even to our enemies. Nothing wrong there. However, this tradition also clearly tells us to, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." How can we do for others if we are not people who love ourselves first, take care of ourselves, etc.? We mistakenly think that self-effacing martyrdom (or some subtle form of it) is the path prescribed by the greatest Teachers. Not so!
And certainly not so in the Buddhist faith. The "Middle Way," is more than a casual reference to "moderation." It involves accepting ourselves as we are, and pursuing the Eightfold Path accordingly. If we are fat, skinny, rich, poor, serious, tense, funny, relaxed...whatever. Truly, the Greater Vehicle (Mahayana) teaches that it is not the aescetic or hermit only who achieves buddhahood. Nun, monk, layman and laywoman: we all can strive for this. But only if we accept ourselves as we are.
There is something unhealthy, unholy, and wrong with the attitude of a person who has the need to always appear to be giving to others, while putting her own needs second. I do believe that people like that are selfish in another way, in that they crave approval from society. After all, who can find fault with the woman who cares slavishly for her family, while rarely taking the time to care for, much less pamper, herself? This, of course, is not a reference to anyone writing here.
A lightbulb went off in my head when I was speaking to a social worker/Catholic nun who quoted Jesus of Nazareth, saying, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." In coming to that profound understanding I reached a milestone only after much suffering in the name of, "...I love my neighbor and put him / her ahead of me." It has changed my life. Am I selfish? Am I vain? Am I centered on me, me, me? I seriously doubt it.
For those of us trying to lose unhealthy excess weight, let us be mindful that we need not hate our bodies as they are. We can look at it from the positive light that this weight is here temporarily and we will work towards a healthier end.
Jay, you provided me with a good reality check in your last writing. I would sure love to be the svelte 125 lbs. I was 20 years ago. Forget it! If I can get to 140, I am a winner. Henceforth, I will re-evaluate my long term goals and adjust the short term goals realistically.
Please let me re-iterate: There is nothing grand about not loving yourself. You can do mych grander things for yourself and others if you do, in fact, LOVE YOURSELF.
I just wanted to share with each of you how wonderful it was to follow your conversation on this thread! I have a tremendous amount of respect for Buddhist wisdom, and I've been gravitating more and more toward it over the past year or so.
Here's something I posted on another thread this afternoon and :
"I am coming to feel the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than the people of good will....We must use time creatively, and forever realize that the time is always ripe to do right."
That's from Dr. King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail. It's about something much loftier than my weigh-loss goals, but I was struck by how appropriate it is for all actions, large and small--and very much in the Buddhist spirit, from a man who was raised to be a traditional Baptist but grew to become a true universalist.
Judy,
A wonderful quote and unfortunately it does seem to be true. Let us all of good will remember not to beat ourselves up and instead go forward confidently into the world!
Has anyone found a good definition of "Karma?' that you are willing to share to open a discussion of this topic? Some folks do not see the immediate effects of their actions. For example, I never expected to gain 80 extra pounds over the two year period that I was eating in restaurants twice everyday. Sure, I knew I was gaining, but what a total shock to get on the scale and find that my weight was at the place where it is right now! But, in looking at the concept of karma, it makes all the sense in the world. The end is the direct result of my actions.
I read about a more subtle form of karma once in the story of a young man who steals and does not get caught. Has he escaped his karma? While he may have no intention of stealing again, the very fact of doing it plants a seed in his mind that may make him inclined to steal again. This in itself is bad karma, a kind of change in the personality for the worse.
Likewise, we may never have intended to put on all this weight, with a little dessert here, an extra helping of bread there. Then, months later, the reality is upon us: excess weight, love handles, bulging bellies and more.
I think the important thing is for us to think mindfully of what we put into our precious human bodies and to acknowledge that karma is a fact of life, manifested in such things as extra pounds and more. More importantly, we can acknowledge that good karma will be accrued when we take the step to curb our cravings and eat in a way that promotes weight loss and optimum health. We WILL lose that weight.
I see parallels with my weight that you discussed Cathy. My thoughts have indeed hardened into a habit when it comes to my eating. I feel that now every time I make a positive step, no matter how small it will translate into me breaking that habit eventually.
I look at karma is being a boomerag effect on my emotions and behaviours. What I give out - I receive back. I am very conscious of this especially being a mamma. I see my moods and emotions have a ripple on effect with my daughter. This is one of my biggest motivations to be healthier.
I will think more on this topic and write later. I am suffering from monkey mind this morning
Karma is the collective results of past actions, not just in this immediate incarnation but through past incarnations as well. Sometimes we can see karma's rise and fall in the present--e.g., raindancer's example--but sometimes we cannot understand it. Being overweight in this life may have origins many lifetimes ago.
I think it is very important to understand that "bad karma" does not mean "sin." When Westerners were first attempting to translate Buddhist texts, many terms were used that are not accurate representations of the ideas. These Western translators came from Judeo-Christian backgrounds, and so they tried to put the Buddhist concepts into words they understood, even if they were wrong in their interpretation.
Sin refers to breaking a law of God. One must then atone for or repent of one's sins in order to be "saved," "forgiven," or "redeemed." Buddhism doesn't work that way. There is no creator god who is going to save, forgive, or redeem anyone. There is only the chain of cause and effect which extends from "time beyond mind."
Karma is cause and effect brought about in this realm, termed samsara. There is both good karma and bad karma. Or, more precisely, there is the ripening of karma from past actions. Ripening of karma means manifestion of circumstances in the present. By doing "good deeds" (e.g., following the 10 precepts), we can ripen our good karma and "cancel out" bad karma. What goes around comes around.
One of my friends who follows a Hindu-based path pointed out to me that to be free of samasara (the current realm of illusion in which we are living) one must be free of attachment to ALL karma--that is, not attached to either good karma or bad karma. The idea is not to become a "saint" who only has good karma.
Living as we do, we can never avoid acts that bring about karma. We must eat, for example. And every step we take may kill some form of sentient being--ant, worm, and so forth.
So, that is part of my understanding of karma.
Certainly the cause and effect nature of the world is very apparent in issue of weight gain and loss!
I agree that bad karma is not the same as "sin." There is a similarity from what I have read, though. In order to expiate negative karma that one is aware of, one should: 1. again, be aware in a profound way of the cause of this negative karma, 2. be truly remorseful to have created something negative, 3. actively do something to make amends for the past action.
One of the things I love most about this Path is that we are enjoined to act. Thus, it is not enough to "pray" and expect that some-One will take our prayers and do something...like a so-called Higher Being who takes our request and manifests our good wishes. A buddhist "prayer" is an intention steeped in an action. Thus, if I pray for my child to get over some problem she is having, I feel responsible to actively do something to find a solution. Likewise, expiating one's karma is more that sitting in the confessional box and making verbal contrition. One makes amends.
I am also aware that collective karma is accrued over many lifetimes. I wonder (jokingly) if these extra pounds are the result of something I did millenia ago? Goodgrief! Jay, do I have to live several lifetimes to get slim? (smile). Sincerely, I am working on the very known past causes of this weight and working hard to improve my habits. If only I had had a glimpse 2 years ago of what this "karma" sitting on my thighs would look like!
In all seriousness, karma has profound implications for everything we think and do in this lifetime. Being more mindful that there are no real coincidences in life will make us more deliberate in all that we do. To drive the point home relative to eating badly, I have tried to sit in brief moments of awareness before I eat and develop an image of myself eating properly (cause) and developing a healthier physical self (effect, karma). Not at all as easy as it sounds when aromas from the dinner table are assaulting the senses!
Best of luck to all in continuing our effort at weight loss. Any successes out there lately?
Greetings, Buddhist friends and interested others!
I haven't had much time to post, either, because of work demands. I have been mindful of my food intake the last week, but I don't know if I have had any weight change. I can be mindful regardless!
My new strategy when eating out at restaurants is to eat only half of what I'm served and take the rest home. (Or even not take it home!) It works quite well--I find I'm satisfied after only half anyway, and eating the rest is just wanting to have the taste again.
Hi all, my name is Hope and I've been reading these posts the last couple of days and they really resound in me! I think there is such a strong connection between our mind/thoughts (which become actions) and the things we do to our bodies. I try to remind myself when I can the same things you all have been discussing...that food can't fill the "void", that thoughts become actions become habits, and lately I've been trying to get to the root of my desire for weight loss. Part of me sees that it is somewhat coming from vanity and a desire to have positive reinforcement from others to make my self esteem go up. I struggle with that in many ways in my life! I need to find the balance between valuing people and my relationships vs needing their approval to find approval for myself. Big struggle! I think that is true for many women...it's a tough one.
So, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the physiological results of our thoughts and attitude. I heard someone say today that if we are downcast on ourselves and picture ourselves in a certain way (ie: the fat girl), that our body reacts to that and there is a chemical reaction. More scientific than buddist, I know,but the mind body connection is what is interesting to me.
Thank you for all your posts and your thoughts, they are worth reading and provide meditations for more people than you know! I hope to hear more and speak more with you all.
