You know, first of all I have to say how impressed I constantly am with 3FC members willingness and desire to understand other peoples points of view (even if we don't agree with them). So refreshing to come here after lurking around other boards where single minded "that's my opinion, so it should be yours" attitudes are so prevalent.
IMO, those sort of comments are usually made out of either arrogance or ignorance, or sometimes both, and goes back to that thing (that I talk about sort of endlessly ) of human beings simply not being able to understand or relate to anything at all that is outside of their sphere of personal experience. (Think the well known, MALE celebrity a while back thinking he had the right to comment that no one should ever need meds for post-partum depression?!?)
If someone has never struggled with their weight, they just can't understand what's so hard about "just not eating"; or if they've never dealt with depression they can't understand why someone can't "just shake it off" and get on with their lives; if they've never dealt with a devastating financial setback they're going to assume that every homeless person is either a drunk or just lazy; and so on and so on. I think we are all perfectly capable of at least being open minded but an awful lot of people don't (or don't want to) even try. Except 3FC members of course
If the comments are made out of arrogance, not much anyone can do (except hope we're around to see it when the karma catches up ). If it's a comment that's made out of ignorance (and is adressed to me in the course of conversation - not brave enough to pipe in on something overheard ), I'm at a point where I almost feel obligated to defend whoever it is that's being disparaged with some sort of "how do you know they aren't struggling with..........." comment in return. It's not really that I think I'm entitled to comment on anyone's situation other than my own, but I feel like if I don't at least try to point out to my acquaintances that there is more than one side to every story, then I'm guilty of perpetuating the ignorance.
Oooh, I think that's about enough out of me on that subject
I'm now at my goal and have very publicly lost weight by going to aerobics classes when I first started with WW. The other week a lady said to me "you've lost so much - you were so brave to come to class as you were the fattest there - now you're one of the smallest" - the thing is even though I've lost the weight I am still that "fat" person, sure maybe there's less of me now - I felt bad for the fat me at her comment, thinking how many people were pitying me and mocking me in my first classes...
At yoga after class 2 of the ladies who didn't know me before I lost the weight commented on how lovely and slim I was - I keep a little photo of me "before" in my wallet and whipped it out to show them the obese me - I think it's important, and I've worked too damned hard not to have people think I take my new shape for granted...
Maybe I'm going to show what a bad person I am now, but I find myself being less tolerant of extremely overweight people as I get slimmer.
I tend to think "I did it - why can't they?"
I was on holiday in Portugal and I was ashamed of how fat most of the British tourists were compared to the beautiful (mostly) slim Portuguese.
There was one particular family who were staying at the same complex as we were and not only were the parents huge, the kids were too - they were all tucking into double helpings of burgers and chips every night. I just felt so sorry for those poor kids - they didn't stand a chance being taught eating habits like that.
Having LOST the weight - I know it can be done.
Maybe this attitude will come around to bite me in the bum if I put it back on again (which I really don't want to do). I'm tempted to delete this post, but I'm not going to - I'm going to pop this out there and see what people think. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels this way.
ETA: I am editing this only to add that I don't think this about anyone here, or about anyone who is actually trying to lose weight, and I realise that it's impossible to tell from physical appearance alone whether someone is losing weight. But I think the particular family I was talking about were not, in this instance, trying to lose weight.
I find the opposite. I used to be really healthy. I was very thin and fit. So I think now, that the new people in my life never knew me then... So, when I accompish my goal it will be even sweeter, because the people who used to know me (my family) when I was thinner will see my old face. And the new people (my husband) will see my new face!! Strange to think of it that way...
Maybe I'm going to show what a bad person I am now, but I find myself being less tolerant of extremely overweight people as I get slimmer.
I tend to think "I did it - why can't they?"
I was on holiday in Portugal and I was ashamed of how fat most of the British tourists were compared to the beautiful (mostly) slim Portuguese.
There was one particular family who were staying at the same complex as we were and not only were the parents huge, the kids were too - they were all tucking into double helpings of burgers and chips every night. I just felt so sorry for those poor kids - they didn't stand a chance being taught eating habits like that.
Having LOST the weight - I know it can be done.
Maybe this attitude will come around to bite me in the bum if I put it back on again (which I really don't want to do). I'm tempted to delete this post, but I'm not going to - I'm going to pop this out there and see what people think. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels this way.
ETA: I am editing this only to add that I don't think this about anyone here, or about anyone who is actually trying to lose weight, and I realise that it's impossible to tell from physical appearance alone whether someone is losing weight. But I think the particular family I was talking about were not, in this instance, trying to lose weight.
i completely understand what you are saying. you cant be angry with someone when you know that atleast they are trying. but in the situtation you discribed it was also about the handicap the parents were passing on to their children.
honestly, i think most people who lose weight start to feel some negative feelings to those that are still over weight. its a reminder of themselves.
Robsia, I think I have been the opposite. I am more understanding now. The thing is, all those years I was still fat and getting fatter and unhealthier, there were lots of people who had already done it. Of course it could be done. But each person still has to find their way to that place. Although I'm very grateful to be much healthier now, I really don't know why I did it this year, and not the year before, or the year before that, etc., etc., etc.
When I was still eating junk and feeling bad about myself, I projected those same judgments onto others who appeared to have the same problems. Not that I sat around being critical, but that was how I saw obesity deep down. Now that I have much healthier feelings about myself and food and such (regardless of my weight), I project that onto others, regardless of their weight.
Absolutely, if I can do it so can they. I believe everyone has that power. But I think that finding that thing, whatever it is, inside you that changes your direction from "I know I should," to "I *am* doing it," it's a gift. All I can be is grateful and wish it for others.
Feeling and hearing that lack of tolerance from others wasn't part of what helped , that's for sure. What helped was quiet examples. Humble, sincere offers to help, or not. Support and friendship that had nothing to do with my weight or health.
I do, however, have a heightened sense of sorrow for the pain and struggle anyone else is still in the midst of that is like what I knew.
I've been obese since early childhood. I've spent many more hours trying to lose weight, than not. I got close to a normal weight only once (with the aid of prescription diet pills, prescribed to me when I was 12 or 13, and still it took me three years to lose the 70 lbs from 225 to 155).
I have to admit, I get rather peeved when I hear the ubiquitous "if I could do it, anyone can." The fact is that one person succeeding does not prove that anyone can, only that THAT person could.
For me, I've finally found what works for me. It's carb restriction and controlling my hormones by stacking my bc. If I had not found this magic combination, I would still be at my highest weight trying to get slimmer, and only getting fatter instead with each successive dieting attempt. I wish I had found this out in my teens, or early twenties instead of in my 40's. I've never experienced a lack of hunger, in all my life like I have on the carb restriction. I can even "forget" to eat, when I'm eating the way I need to in order to lose weight.
I can't tell you how many people told me that if they could do it, I could - or how many times I attempted and failed to succeed "their way." The facts are that weight loss is damned difficult. And just because someone has climbed Mt Everest, does not mean that everybody can.
I realize every day how "accidental" my happy discovery has been, and how close I came to never finding it (too many doctors told me it wasn't a good idea to stack my bc, and/or how unhealthy low carb dieting is). I was so skeptical that it took two doctors to persuade me to try low carb dieting, assuring me that the research was much more promising for insulin resistant folks. I've been in several severe disagreements here over the same issue, because there are many who still believe that "everyone knows that low carb is bad for you." So it makes me wonder how many people, like I was, are out there. Never trying low carb, because it's "unhealthy," while harboring the impression that they are just stupid or lazy, because they haven't found what works for them yet, wonderying why "anyone can do it, so why can't I," and yet never thinking to try the one thing that could work for them.
Weight loss is complicated, and more and more of us here have seen that what works for one person, does not always work for everyone. Often, to lose weight, a person has to unlearn everything they were ever taught about "healthy weight loss," and learn to think and act outside the box.
There have been several studies that suggest that fat and formerly fat people tend to hold more hate and bias against fat people than normal weight individuals. It's rather understandable, in a sense. In order to be self-righteous, you have to see yourself as better than someone else. If you've worked very hard to become better, self-righteousness is pretty easy. Compassion is much more difficult, because you have to admit that you might actually have had an advantage that someone else didn't have. Whether that be a lesson you learned, a support system you have......
The fact is that you never know how much a person has tried, what their upbringing was like, what illnesses they are dealing with, what mental issues they are dealing with, all of the thousands of factors that go into why a person is overweight.
We like to assign morality to weight in this culture. Fat people are just bad people. At best they're weak, and stupid, and at worst they're selfish, lazy and greedy. The facts don't matter. A person could win the nobel peace prize, and it wouldn't matter if they were fat. I spent too much of my time trying to prove I was a good person. I worked very hard to prove I wasn't stupid, lazy, or selfish. Everyone and everything in my life came before me.
So, in part the reason I was able to lose weight is getting sick and having to lose my job. I suddenly had nothing better to do, than take care of myself and BE selfish - and it still took nearly three years to find what is working for me. It's so different this time, that I know I will continue to lose weight. But how much, and how long it will take, I still can't tell you that.
I'm not going to feel contempt for people who haven't done as well as I am, and I'm not going to envy anyone who has done better. There's no way to accurately perceive another person's situation how "easy" or how "difficult" they have it, or how hard or whether they're trying.
I've faced the contempt of those who said "if I could do it, anyone can." It not only didn't help me lose weight, I saw most of those people regain. I have to say it would have been very tempting to take pleasure in the fact of that weight gain for those that were the most self-righteous about their weight loss, but I reminded myself how I would feel in their place. How humbling and mortifying it would be to feel so self-righteous only to fall.
Being able to truly put yourself in someone else's place is a very difficult skill, but you can choose to assume the best, or assume the worst. I tend to choose the best, unless I have proof otherwise. It tends to make my life easier.
I would just like it said that I don't ever actually SAY "If I can do it, so can you" to anyone. I never comment on anyone's weight to their face - that would be incredibly rude. And I never talk about my weight loss unless I am asked about it - I'm not a weight loss bore.
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There have been several studies that suggest that fat and formerly fat people tend to hold more hate and bias against fat people than normal weight individuals.
Well, maybe this is a normal stage in the slimming down process - lol. Hopefully soon I can move past it and on to the compassion bit. I don't hate fat people and some people genuinely cannot lose weight but I have little tolerance for excuses. I made them all to myself in the past.
I have had people come up to me and say "Oh you've done so well, how did you do it? I need to lose some weight - what's your secret?" So I tell them. Diet, exercise, and a shedload of willpower
And then they come out with a ream of excuses as to why they couldn't possibly do that. So I shrug and smile politely and say nothing.
Hmmm....I have actually posted on 3FC, if I can do it anyone can, and it is most definitely NOT from a place of arrogance but rather a place of humility and awe. One of the challenges I have had is a lack of role models in my real life....obese people in my life stay obese. I know one woman who shared with me that she used to be obese....she is one of the fittest people I know.
Besides that woman, the only people I "know" who have lost and maintained are on 3FC and reading the goals stories and the maintenance forum is what made me believe in the possibility....in the potential. Change starts with an idea, and my idea was validated and renewed over and over by the men and women on this site. The knowledge that Meg, Mel, Glory, Robin, Amanda, etc., etc., etc., CAN and DID do it made it seem possible that I too could do it. So when I share my amazement that me, just average regular old me, can do it too I see it not coming from a place of arrogance at all...rather from a place of hope. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, Kaplods. As with most things on the Internet, there is room for multiple intents and meanings.
I was without a doubt the world's worst eater. And non-exericser. I can't even begin to get across just how poor my eating/activity level really was.
So yes, I've said it many times, and I will continue to say it, because from the bottom of my heart, and with every ounce of my being, I truly, truly believe, that if I (& and Meg, Mel, Amanda, Midwife, Glory, and on and on) can do it, that really, anyone can.
Throughout the years, as I suffered from being morbidly obese, I would hear of people who lost large amounts of weight. Never in real life, but on Oprah and other shows and in magazines. I did often think that I was indeed different then them, that although they did do it, that it just wasn't doable for ME. But deep down, knowing that it did occur, even if not all that frequently, did leave me with a teeny, tiny shred of hope. And I think I hung on to that.
So, like Midwife, I say it not out of arrogance, but also from a place of hope. I say it because I soooo badly want want others to keep on plugging away and find the right formula for themselves.
I hope it's okay to post here since I'm trying to lose weight and am not at the maintainer stage yet. I have to say that what helps me the most but gives me the most anxiety is to see those of you who have reached goal or are very close to goal. Like Robsia says, every day for the past 2.5 months I have been portion-controlling, calorie-counting, carb-reducing, fat-managing and exercising.
But, it is a weird feeling to feel like even though you're doing all that, everyone else will be successful at weight loss, but I can't envision myself being successful. I feel like 25 lbs out of the total 125 I needed to lose is nothing. Like 25 will be where it all stops. It's not that I think "poor, pitiful me". It's just that I can't *imagine* myself being as successful as you who have done brilliantly well. But, that's not to say that I will give up what I'm doing. I won't go back to what I was doing before. Too much at risk.
As to how people talk about fat people, I know it goes on, but I don't hear it of course. So, I want to outdo those people and trap them in their prejudices by making all of those comments about myself. Turn the tables on them. Hold a mirror up, so to speak.
I have a humorous way of talking to people to put them at ease and to make people laugh. So, I was talking to this one co-worker who is normal weight and saying how I love to fly on airplanes.... I told him "you can't imagine how great it feels to be one of the last people to board the plane and as I'm walking down the aisle looking for my seat, I see so many people's eyes widen and then they divert their glances! Their internal voice saying 'please don't let it be the seat next to me.... please!' and finally the look on the lucky winner's face when I get to share the ride with him. Priceless!!"
He couldn't stop laughing. I tell him how I have to fend off all the guys making passes at me and how they will never fire me because I'm too good looking...
As long as I know what they're thinking. As long as I can let them know that I know what they're thinking. As long as they don't believe they're getting away with something. I'm happy.
I feel empathy for those still struggling with their weight. It took me 50 years to find the right combination to not only lose the weight, but keep it off for good. How can I possible judge others given my own history?
When I hear derogatory comments about the weight/habits of others, I feel compelled to comment. I share my own story from a place of humility and personal struggle. I try to point out that each of us has an area where our behavior needs to change. Each of us has something we are struggling with. Being overweight is just one of those struggles that is visible on the outside.
Unfortunately, I don't "play well with others" in most social situations - my need to comment about their gossip usually puts a damper on the conversation.
I have a humorous way of talking to people to put them at ease and to make people laugh. So, I was talking to this one co-worker who is normal weight and saying how I love to fly on airplanes.... I told him "you can't imagine how great it feels to be one of the last people to board the plane and as I'm walking down the aisle looking for my seat, I see so many people's eyes widen and then they divert their glances! Their internal voice saying 'please don't let it be the seat next to me.... please!' and finally the look on the lucky winner's face when I get to share the ride with him. Priceless!!"
He couldn't stop laughing. I tell him how I have to fend off all the guys making passes at me and how they will never fire me because I'm too good looking...
As long as I know what they're thinking. As long as I can let them know that I know what they're thinking. As long as they don't believe they're getting away with something. I'm happy.
This almost made my cry.
I used to do the same thing.
Reading your post made it all come back to me, how crap I used to feel about myself, and how I was convinced everyone I walked past thought I was fat and ugly. So I would put myself down before anyone else got a chance to do so.
I have to apologize for the crabbiness of my last post. Due to a prescription snafu, I've had to go several days without the bc that is regulating my hormonal issues. It is just a reminder to me how much my hormones affect my mood and food issues. I've managed to stay on plan, but it's taking every ounce of white knucked willpower I've got, not to kill my husband and eat everything in sight (maybe not in that order, as if I wait to kill him, I could send him out for a burger run first).
Seriously though, we never argue unless it's near or during TOM. And I know it's "me," but even so I can't help but see him as a complete Moron SOB, every time he opens his mouth. Thankfully, I was able to get my bc refilled today, so by this time tomorrow or possibly Monday at the latest, I will be human again and will again be able to see my hubby as the handsome and charming man he is. He's going to be gone most of today with friends (lucky for him).
I do understand how easy it is to become frustrated with people who ask for help or advice, but do not want to hear it, especially if it means changing anything in their lives. I was a probation officer for more than three years (and a juvenile detention worker 5 years before that), and spent most of my career in one way or another trying to help people change behaviors.
But one thing I learned from it all, is compassion. Change is probably the most difficult thing in the world to accomplish. I couldn't be too judgemental of the residential burglar who couldn't give up thievery (because it was the only way he knew to support his family), when I couldn't even lose and keep off extra weight. That didn't mean I thought it was ok, or didn't do my job to hold him accountable, but I still sympathized.
It's hard to sympathize with someone whose behavior is so outside your experience level. I became pretty good at it, but it's still not "natural." Judgement and anger and frustration are so often more natural than compassion. Compassion doesn't mean you condone what a person is doing, it means you understand (at least a little) why they are doing it.
It's kind of weird, that being a probation officer taught me not just compassion for others in extremely negative situations I couldn't easily relate to, but a little more compassion towards myself and others trying to lose weight, as well. I looked at it, as if someone was finding it difficult to change, even when failing to do so was going to put them in jail for a very long time, cost them their freedom and their family and their future, then is it any wonder that losing weight is so difficult?
Compassion is a lot harder when you're dealing with "should know betters," of any kind. But that's where it's needed the most. Because the people do know that they're failing, they're just not completely sure why or aren't sure how to stop, and most of them think (despite all the evidence around them) that they're the only ones who aren't "getting it." "I'm just stupid," "I'm just bad," "I'm just lazy," "I can't help it." The excuses are the same whether you're failing at weight loss or failing at obeying the law.
And while it's true, that they're "excuses," they don't seem that way when you're in the middle of it. They seem like the truth, and therefore, they often become self-fufilling. And oddly, it isn't someone telling them that they're wrong or to "snap out of it," or telling them that there is another way, that usually is the first step to change, but rather someone saying "I understand."
It was weird as a probation officer to work with people who'd done horrible things. We were taught that we had to be compassionate first, acting like their behavior was perfectly understandable in their circumstances, and what's weirder was that you started to see how it really was. That didn't mean we didn't do our jobs and hold them accountable to the rules, but when you treated them as human beings, they tended to be more likely to act that way.
One of the guys I felt the most compassion and yet revulsion for was a guy on probation for domestic battery. He truly had a jekyl and hyde personality. He was either the sweetest, most submissive guy on the planet or he was in a rage. He'd had a horrendous childhood (surprised he survived it, actually), and he was a Nam vet with post-traumatic stress. He'd attempted suicide twice, because he felt he wasn't safe to be around (and he was right). He completed his probation successfully (and the anger-management classes) and he and his wife reconciled. I don't know if he was successful in his efforts at change, it looked like he was heading that way, but I saw many people who seemed as promising who ended back in trouble again and again and again.
With all the things a person can struggle with, I'm very grateful that I've only had to deal with obesity. Of all the behavior and mental problems a person can have, obesity is pretty tame. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't worry about it, because it's not a meth addiction or child abuse, but it does mean I have to put it into perspective. If I could learn compassion for violent criminals, compassion for weight issues is a no-brainer, for me.
There have been several studies that suggest that fat and formerly fat people tend to hold more hate and bias against fat people than normal weight individuals. It's rather understandable, in a sense. In order to be self-righteous, you have to see yourself as better than someone else. If you've worked very hard to become better, self-righteousness is pretty easy. Compassion is much more difficult, because you have to admit that you might actually have had an advantage that someone else didn't have. Whether that be a lesson you learned, a support system you have......
This seemed to stand out quite a bit for me reading through this thread. Personally, I wouldn't say that its hate or bias; more disgust. Not disgust at them even but more at myself. 'Currently fat' people (for want of a better term; I aim to offend no one so apologise if any of my phrasing is out a bit) symbolise everything I was and the battle I (and I'm sure many others) go through every day. My fatness was (and when I slip is) a weakness... I lack self control and discipline... it's disgusting that I even let myself get that way... and yet it never gets any easier to try and control.
I just sometimes wish that having been there (I'm by no way finished but I'd like to think I'm at least a fair way through the journey to becoming a maintainer... although it will always be a lifelong 'battle').. I just wish there was a way of making people wake up and realise what they're doing... that if they just stopped now etc. But then there is no magic pill, no 'particular' winning method, no special answer. It has to come to each of us at our own time in our own way.
I'm rambling somewhat so I'll stop; I'm just having one of those days where I wish that it was at times slightly 'easier' and less of a struggle from one decision to the next... you think it'd get easier huh
) of human beings simply not being able to understand or relate to anything at all that is outside of their sphere of personal experience. (Think the well known, MALE celebrity a while back thinking he had the right to comment that no one should ever need meds for post-partum depression?!?) 
). If it's a comment that's made out of ignorance (and is adressed to me in the course of conversation - not brave enough to pipe in on something overheard 
), I'm at a point where I almost feel obligated to defend whoever it is that's being disparaged with some sort of "how do you know they aren't struggling with..........." comment in return. It's not really that I think I'm entitled to comment on anyone's situation other than my own, but I feel like if I don't at least try to point out to my acquaintances that there is more than one side to every story, then I'm guilty of perpetuating the ignorance.
, that's for sure. What helped was quiet examples. Humble, sincere offers to help, or not. Support and friendship that had nothing to do with my weight or health.
