Your life is great. Her life sucks. You don't have to pity her, but let her have her imaginary wins, it may be all she has. Do you need her to have nothing to feel better about yourself? (Rhetorical question)
Obviously she recognizes that you are the "winner" in most things or she wouldn't be trying so hard to copy you and engage you in competition.
I think you may be letting your family history and how you were made to feel as a child influence how you feel today. You WERE set up to feel like the inferior one as a child. That sucks, but you proved them wrong. They know it, or they wouldn't be setting up these petty and pitiful ways to compete.
Having a child or winning a foot race is supposed to prove what exactly? It is NOT going to prove she has the better life. At best it proves she might be better at you at SOMETHING.
The type of "somethings" she and her mother are choosing are so pitiful in the scheme of things it only proves they are grasping at straws.
On the "life, love, and everything" race track, you've crossed the finish line and are still running ahead. She's barely gotten out of the gate (I'm mixing my human and horse race metaphors, I know).
I think you both know she can never "catch up."
You don't have to pity her, but you also don't have to compete, because you've already won. Being irritated at the possibility of her having a small win, especially if that win is only in her imagination is only a step backward for you on that "life, love, and everything" track.
Allow her her delusions. They don't take anything from your success.
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I hate to hear such stories. I feel for you both. Instead of having a good friend and mutual support in a cousin that is presumably in the same age bracket, an immature woman set you apart from the start with her petty comparisons that I assume formed some point of pride missing in her own life.
Her vanity damaged you and puffed up her daughter without merit. That dynamic repeats itself sadly with your cousin striving to "make good" on her mother's expectations very likely subconsciously to her detriment.
It seems that by imitating you, your cousin is not making her own life choices but rather decisions based upon your relative success. She is probably unaware of being bound by the initial course set in her life to be superior to you, even when choices she makes to do so (to have a child in a bad marriage without adequate funds) might add to ruination of another generation.
Very sad IMO. In a similar way, comparisons led to distancing between my sisters and I and between my family and our extended family, especially among the women. This thing about having to be "better" than everyone is a ruinous business in families and in general. My 2 cents.
GG I notice a lot of the threads you begin center around other people, what other people said, what other people do, what other people post on Facebook etc. It's probably worth examining why other people are so compelling to you and why you are so sensitive about their actions, thoughts or business.
It doesn't cross my mind to be threatened by someone who is competitive with me, I take it as a compliment but I do hate being dragged into other people's insecurities and I find ways to keep distance. I think competition comes from jealousy and I think jealousy is poisonous. Try not to drink anyone else's koolaid.
Your life is great. Her life sucks. You don't have to pity her, but let her have her imaginary wins, it may be all she has. Do you need her to have nothing to feel better about yourself? (Rhetorical question)
Obviously she recognizes that you are the "winner" in most things or she wouldn't be trying so hard to copy you and engage you in competition.
I think you may be letting your family history and how you were made to feel as a child influence how you feel today. You WERE set up to feel like the inferior one as a child. That sucks, but you proved them wrong. They know it, or they wouldn't be setting up these petty and pitiful ways to compete.
Having a child or winning a foot race is supposed to prove what exactly? It is NOT going to prove she has the better life. At best it proves she might be better at you at SOMETHING.
The type of "somethings" she and her mother are choosing are so pitiful in the scheme of things it only proves they are grasping at straws.
On the "life, love, and everything" race track, you've crossed the finish line and are still running ahead. She's barely gotten out of the gate (I'm mixing my human and horse race metaphors, I know).
I think you both know she can never "catch up."
You don't have to pity her, but you also don't have to compete, because you've already won. Being irritated at the possibility of her having a small win, especially if that win is only in her imagination is only a step backward for you on that "life, love, and everything" track.
Allow her her delusions. They don't take anything from your success.
Kaplods, It is a gift just for people to be able to read others, their emotions, and situation in person, and you are somehow able to do this on line, minus facial expressions, voice tone...your post, especially the part I bolded, is dead on.
Growing up I was the "inferior one" absolutely. While the rest of our cousins have sisters, I don't and she doesn't, so we were like sisters to each other, and I was always he "ugly" one... Not literally, but I was the poor one, the one that dressed sloppy, the one that spoke out (which was not a favored behavoir in my family). I was the one that said the wrong things, that was not up on the cool fashions...I was a good kid at heart, but at times ran with a bad crowd in the neighborhood because we lived in less affluent areas. I smoked then, listened to rap (which I still do! But again looked down on by some of my family) I have multiple piercings in my ears, friends with tattoos (I dont have any)....I was what my aunt and cousin judged as a loser...
My dad has expressed that growing up his sister (my aunt) felt he was like that too. My dad ran with a rough crowd at times, smoked, has tattoos, and never went to college. He has told me that over the years his sister seemed to expect that her daughter (my cousin)would be better than his daughter (me) just as she is better than him. I always picked up on this competition. But my dad never made it a competition. He just said, be yourself and be happy. He taught me the only person you have to answer to is you, and to live for myself and what I want in life.
So even though I have found a more peaceful and successful life in marriage, career, life etc. I still feel like the inadequate one. I'm still that same "loser" I was as a kid.
But you are right that this is not true anymore. And maybe she needs this little "win". In all honesty, even if I take longer than I'd loike to lose the weight, I will lose it, not for her, for me. I can honestly say I have always lived my life for me, like my dad taught me. I know that I will eventually get the weight off and get back to running. So if she want to compare herself to me now 7 week PP, then so be it. And its up to me not to let it bother me.
GG I notice a lot of the threads you begin center around other people, what other people said, what other people do, what other people post on Facebook etc. It's probably worth examining why other people are so compelling to you and why you are so sensitive about their actions, thoughts or business.
It doesn't cross my mind to be threatened by someone who is competitive with me, I take it as a compliment but I do hate being dragged into other people's insecurities and I find ways to keep distance. I think competition comes from jealousy and I think jealousy is poisonous. Try not to drink anyone else's koolaid.
No. I think Kaplods was on point, but this is a little off.
I have always been a people "watcher", I find human behavoir intriguing. Sometimes I have no emotional attachment to the person or their behavoir but I want to exam it and I want to see what other think. Sometimes I'm trying to guage if my own reaction is the typical reaction. I have found over the course of my life that my views on the world and human behavoir are not the popular ones. I don't put stock in social labels such as ladylike...I don't typically enjoy the same pass times that most women do. I guess what I'm trying to say is I realized early I think and react unlike the majority. Things I find repulsive, others are drawn to, behavoirs that I like, personality traits I respect or like, most people, namely women, are turned off by. So often when I see an action (like the women that throw the mice over the fence) my thought is Is my reaction to this the typical reaction?
I honestly do not feel jealousy. A childhood of being extremely poor, fat and abuse purged me of that for the most part. I was always the worst dressed, I lived in the dumpy welfare apartment while my friends had homes, I was the fattest girl nearly always. When my friends parent attended school functions, my mom was home sleeping. I just don't feel jealousy because I really like how my life turned out, and I have nothing to be jealous of. Besides when you spend most of you life always having less, you just arent jealous anymore, because it becomes the norm. I think jealously arises when we feel we "want" something others have because we are "deserving" of it...I never felt I deserved anything I didnt work for. I get the impression that you have never come from a very poor background, and people that do have money seem to think that those with less are jealous, but typically the less you have (and if you have always had less) the less you want. Does that make sence?
Basically jealousy says I want what she has, I 'm jealous of something she has/does,..no. I think I'm way more danm awesome than her, that inside I've always been the "better" person, more motivated more willing to help others, etc, so I want her to stop thinking that she will beat me based on a weight. I'm not jealous because I've always known that who I am is better, but she and her mom judged my appearance and friends as less than for many years.
You are mistaking my annoyance or observation of others for jealousy. I believe anything I want I can get through hard work , so why would I be jealous of anyone?
But I digress, no that's not quite it. I think its frustrating that anyone would be happy that I would gain weight. Long history of competition or not.
** I should clarify, I think well of me, however I still feel like in their eyes I am the "loser" that somehow stumbled into a good life, though I know I worked hard to get here...it like i want them to get that i am where i am because i'm awesome and to know that they are asses for judging me based on appearance. I know it bothers them that a girl that speaks her mind and does not dress like a femine girlie girl made it this far. to this day they openly critisuze women that dont wear makeup/wear sweats in public etc..
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 09-17-2013 at 01:50 PM.
I hate to hear such stories. I feel for you both. Instead of having a good friend and mutual support in a cousin that is presumably in the same age bracket, an immature woman set you apart from the start with her petty comparisons that I assume formed some point of pride missing in her own life.
Her vanity damaged you and puffed up her daughter without merit. That dynamic repeats itself sadly with your cousin striving to "make good" on her mother's expectations very likely subconsciously to her detriment.
It seems that by imitating you, your cousin is not making her own life choices but rather decisions based upon your relative success. She is probably unaware of being bound by the initial course set in her life to be superior to you, even when choices she makes to do so (to have a child in a bad marriage without adequate funds) might add to ruination of another generation.
Very sad IMO. In a similar way, comparisons led to distancing between my sisters and I and between my family and our extended family, especially among the women. This thing about having to be "better" than everyone is a ruinous business in families and in general. My 2 cents.
I never thought about it like that..It kind of makes me want to call my cousin and spend time with her. Its sad to think what it should be like if that seed was never planted.
Well, is she someone you'd want to spend time with, if it weren't the comparison thing? As in - are there other positive qualities to her that can make a closer relationship enriching to your life?
This thread has been fascinating (with great advice) -- I alluded to my cousin and "other family," but really, it's an extremely similar story, with things being set up from the start by my aunt, and then carrying childhood patterns forward. For me - while I've tried to move past that and just wish the cousin well, that moving past that doesn't mean I want to spend time with her or make her a part of my life, either.
No you misunderstood what I said. I didn't mean to imply that you're jealous, I meant that competition stems from jealousy and in this case I think it's your cousin who's jealous not you. I never got the impression that you are jealous. I do get the impression that you have a lot of interest invested in what other people are doing though.
I wouldn't want to take away any kudos to you for your accomplishments but I'm uncomfortable in the territory of agreeing with you that your cousin sucks and that you're way more awesome than her. We all have insecurities and I don't think she deserves that. Not from me anyway because i dont know her. if i agreed with you that you are more accimplished than her and that she has accomplished nothing in comparison to you the way kaplods did then I would be doing the same thing that your cousin and her mom did to you: put someone down to make you feel better. Maybe it was inevitable that with a mother who pressured her so much she cracked under the pressure. Nobody deserves to be out down for their failures if they still have time to fix them. She may be leading a better life than you're privy to.
Last edited by Palestrina; 09-17-2013 at 03:25 PM.
My description of the cousin was not meant to be taken literally, but rather from OP's perspective.
I'm not assuming anything about the cousin's actual quality of life, or whether she even in fact is truly jealous of OP
My guess is that the cousin is simply doing the best she can and doesn't think about OP nearly as much as it seems to OP.
However, it is pretty safe to assume that the cousin admires OP or she wouldn't be copying her (assuming she is copying her rather than coincidentally taking a similar path).
My point was that it doesn't matter in the least what OP thinks her cousin thinks. Either the cousin isn't jealous and therfore it doesn't matter - or she is jealous and it still doesn't matter, because any "victory" the cousin perceives has no impact on OP at all.
Even if the cousin is jealous and wants to compete, op doesn't have to play along.
I understand that we're raised to care what others think, and even to compete in one-up-manship manner, but it's a game that no one can win without everyone losing.
The only way to win that game is not to play, either by assuming the other person is not wanting you to fail, or by allowing them their false perception of superiority.
I'm saying the cousin may or may not feel superior or inferior to OP, but whatever she feels, it has nothing to do with OP's success and worrying, fretting, or even being mildly annoyed by what her cousin and aunt might think only takes away from OP's win.
When I said "you don't have to pity" the cousin, I meant there may be nothing to pity. Maybe her competitive nature is in the same category as OP's annoyance. It sounds like both are letting their interpretations of each other's choices affect their own.
Hey it happens, especially in families, but the competition isn't healthy if negative feelings are involved. It's one thing to compete with good humor, cheering each other on and another to feel judged and rejected. When hard feelings are involved, even mild annoyance, it's time to stop playing the game (in my opinion).
Well, is she someone you'd want to spend time with, if it weren't the comparison thing? As in - are there other positive qualities to her that can make a closer relationship enriching to your life?
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Absolutely. As part of my life journey, I want to heal the wounds that may not even be there from our own doing (outside opinions seemed to have leaked into our relationship at an early age).
This is something I want to work on, hopefully she and I can work on it together. I think if she seperated her thoughts from her mothers judgemental voice, she would have more peace and not feel the need to compare herself to me or anyone else.
No you misunderstood what I said. I didn't mean to imply that you're jealous, I meant that competition stems from jealousy and in this case I think it's your cousin who's jealous not you. I never got the impression that you are jealous. I do get the impression that you have a lot of interest invested in what other people are doing though.
I wouldn't want to take away any kudos to you for your accomplishments but I'm uncomfortable in the territory of agreeing with you that your cousin sucks and that you're way more awesome than her. We all have insecurities and I don't think she deserves that. Not from me anyway because i dont know her. if i agreed with you that you are more accimplished than her and that she has accomplished nothing in comparison to you the way kaplods did then I would be doing the same thing that your cousin and her mom did to you: put someone down to make you feel better. Maybe it was inevitable that with a mother who pressured her so much she cracked under the pressure. Nobody deserves to be out down for their failures if they still have time to fix them. She may be leading a better life than you're privy to.
Ah ok. Until recently I never thought my cousin was the jealous type. In a recent conversation she was telling me how her friend (unmarried, lives with parents) was telling my cousin about her new expensive designer purse. Now mind you, my cousin has TONS of designer purses because she used to have money, and lots of it, but she hasn't bought one in a few years and so i guess what she has is out of season?..so my cousin was telling me how much it upset her that her friend was telling her about this purse, and my cousin says to me that her friend should know better than to talk about her new $$$ purse since my cousin cannot afford to buy one...I was surprised as I did not think this bothered my cousin. It was funny because when my cousin had $$ she flaunted alll her purchases (perhaps the reason the friend now did it to her, idk) and I told my cousin, "your friend is unmarried and lives at home, you live on your own with 3 kids, she has more money to burn right now, so why so upset?" I was truely surprised at my cousins jealousy and that was the first time I felt that she might be jealous of me. Which makes me uncomfortable.
I see what kaplods is saying, its more about my perception, not what really is or isnt.
My description of the cousin was not meant to be taken literally, but rather from OP's perspective.
I'm not assuming anything about the cousin's actual quality of life, or whether she even in fact is truly jealous of OP
My guess is that the cousin is simply doing the best she can and doesn't think about OP nearly as much as it seems to OP.
However, it is pretty safe to assume that the cousin admires OP or she wouldn't be copying her (assuming she is copying her rather than coincidentally taking a similar path).
My point was that it doesn't matter in the least what OP thinks her cousin thinks. Either the cousin isn't jealous and therfore it doesn't matter - or she is jealous and it still doesn't matter, because any "victory" the cousin perceives has no impact on OP at all.
Even if the cousin is jealous and wants to compete, op doesn't have to play along.
I understand that we're raised to care what others think, and even to compete in one-up-manship manner, but it's a game that no one can win without everyone losing.
The only way to win that game is not to play, either by assuming the other person is not wanting you to fail, or by allowing them their false perception of superiority.
I'm saying the cousin may or may not feel superior or inferior to OP, but whatever she feels, it has nothing to do with OP's success and worrying, fretting, or even being mildly annoyed by what her cousin and aunt might think only takes away from OP's win.
When I said "you don't have to pity" the cousin, I meant there may be nothing to pity. Maybe her competitive nature is in the same category as OP's annoyance. It sounds like both are letting their interpretations of each other's choices affect their own.
Hey it happens, especially in families, but the competition isn't healthy if negative feelings are involved. It's one thing to compete with good humor, cheering each other on and another to feel judged and rejected. When hard feelings are involved, even mild annoyance, it's time to stop playing the game (in my opinion).
Kaplods, post #16 was what made me uncomfortable because you were just saying what GG wanted to hear. I went back and read it again and it still sounded like you were putting her cousin down and telling the OP that she won.
Kaplods, post #16 was what made me uncomfortable because you were just saying what GG wanted to hear. I went back and read it again and it still sounded like you were putting her cousin down and telling the OP that she won.
Nope, I was letting OP have her own reality and her "win", as I was encouraging her to do for her cousin. I didn't contradict her about her cousin, because it wasn't my place to get her to substitute my interpretation of her cousin, especially since I know neither of them.
It would have been hypocritical for me to say "let your cousin think she's won" if I weren't willing to grant OP the same courtesy.
I'm saying OP has just as much right to believe she has won in life and her her cousin's life and achievements are inferior as the cousin has in believing the reverse. What each believes about the other is real to each of them. It's ok for me to point out that they each and both may be wrong (which I did to the only person I could), but OP is still entitled to her perception in reality.
I would give the exact same advice to the cousin. When you directly confront someone about their perception of someone else (especially someone you don't know), they simply dismiss your advice because "clearly you don't know this person like I do." The best you can do is suggest their perception may not be accurate, but that even if it is, it still doesn't matter.
That's what I did. OP has the right to compare herself to her cousin and believe she comes out "ahead" in that comparison; and the cousin has that same right. If both could embrace their own "wins" and not worry about each other's or anyone else's, they would both be happier.
This doesn't have to be a mutually-agreed upon tie. Sure that would be kind of nice, but value systems and even moral judgments are a normal and even often useful human perceptions. And that means comparing ourselves and each other to our moral and value standards.
It's ok for the cousin to value wealth, social standing, physical appearance and certain social graces. It's also ok for OP to reject some of those values and have her own.
By OP's definition her life is better than her cousins, she wins, her cousin doesn't (by the OP's reality rules). By her cousin's definition, the reverse may be true, but if each of them truly believed that, there would be no hard feelings between them.
I'm not going to burst either's bubble, because then I would be imposing my reality and rules onto both of them (and I'm not immune from doing that. I just have tried not to do that here).
Yes, I would tell both women (partially) what they'd like to hear:
"You have every right to your own reality which includes your choices, feelings, memories, morals, values and beliefs, and so does your cousin. You have every right to compare yourself to others and judge yourself (and less importantly, others) by whichever standards you choose. No one can take this reality from you; because in your reality you choose the winners and the losers in each comparison. You also choose the importance of winning in each comparison you choose to make. In your own head, you make all the rules. You can let everyone or no one win... your reality, your rules. Your cousin gets to do the same.
Ideally, we would all be able to live in a reality where everyone wins at everything, but that will never happen unless we give up on moral and value judgments altogether, even on heinous crimes. That's not a reality I want to live in, but some people do. That too is their right, but they may have to do it from prison if they try to bring their reality into the lives of others.
Op doesn't have to see her cousin's life as better or even equal to her own, but if she can see her cousin's reality as having no bearing on her own, she will be happier.
And I'd give the same advice to the cousin. Denying either's perception of the other isn't necessary to do that. That would be a job for a counselor (and my MA is in developmental psychology, not counseling and even if it were, this wouldn't be the place). Besides, even an experienced counselor would consider reality challenging ("bubble bursting") for a later step in the process.
