I'll "weigh" in here... (pun intended... and it stays...)
Overweight is the new norm: Good or Bad?
Simple : BAD.... yes, VERY BAD...
One doesn't have to be a genius to see where this is heading... In our society as a whole we are moving way past just merely being "overweight" to levels of obesity that are just staggering... and all that comes with it... sky rocketing rates of diabetes that are truly alarming being just one example (and of course we could go on and on, but let's save all that for another day...)
Healthy weight guidelines are just that... GUIDELINES... references that have well documented limitations, but they still offer us some very useful information that gives us a starting off point that can be individualized to each person's unique health situation and life circumstances...
I think the danger lies in the complacency that is fostered in our society and culture when being overweight becomes widely accepted, as seems to be where we might be headed...
Last edited by TripSwitch; 09-18-2012 at 08:26 AM.
If that offended somebody.. well I don't care, it's my opinion.
Serendipity just bashed curvier shapes and nobody said anything about that... Yeah, so... if that's what you aspire to be, good for you, but I'm not really going to apologize because my opinion offended your aspirations.
Who is seriously to say that somebody deemed as overweight (not obese) according to our NEW standards, is unhealthy? A little prejudice isn't it? My cousin is 5'5 and 164, she plays volleyball and is in great shape, but according to the "charts" she's overweight. I say it's bull and in a society where women with bodies like Kim Kardashian and Miley Cyrus (before the weight loss) are considered pudgy, chubby, and fat... yeah, I'll say the idea of healthy weight is too low.
I absolutely did not bash anything, I was very clear that I was talking about it purely from a health POV. I have friends who are all shapes and sizes and I don't measure overall attractiveness based off of weight.
I think it's becoming harder to distinguish what is slim an what is a bit chubby and so on. I'm not saying that anyone who is slightly overweight is going to be unhealthy but surely we should all ultimately be working towards being the healthiest we can-For the most part if we're still overweight (Excluding athletes etc who fall into overweight zones because of muscle), it's because we're still eating too much food regardless of how much sport we might be doing.
I don't think it's good. When you go to Europe, you don't really see overweight people. ****, you can go to NYC and you don't really see all that many heavy people compared to "normal" sized. I live in the south and the first thing my BF commented on about my hometown is how many people are overweight. It's just so unhealthy and not only reduces your quality of life, but your lifespan as well.
But I don't believe in fat shaming. Weight gain just happens sometimes, we lead busy lives. I don't really see a change in society. Still seems as though the worst thing you can be is a fat person, and people will let you know. What's sad is how mean people can be when you try to change it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I was just in Europe - people are getting fatter there too - the younger they are (yes kids), the more obesity problem there is. I was shocked, actually. I go ever few years and this was the FIRST time I really saw a lot of overweight people. Even my husband noticed it. And it's not that I was looking for it more - as an overweight American, I've always paid attention to it when I traveled abroad. This time I was the average and sometimes smaller than the average for people my age (42)... Men especially are getting fat and kids - LOTS of fat kids.
it just seems to go against the spirit of this community. most of the members try to create a supportive and positive place on this forum. i cant tell you what to do, but id adjust my attitude accordingly.
You may have children, but I'm not one of them. I'm pretty supportive. but unless the rules state that you can't express dislike for any body type... I really don't see the problem. It's not like I attacked any one member, called anyone out, accused people who are slim of being anorexic (as a previous poster basically said that people are overweight because they stuff their greedy little faces, yeah...)
So... let the hit dog holler and I'm going to keep it moving.
But thanks for the advice.
Minus the few exceptions such as medications and the rare genuine health condition, we're all here and overweight because we've eaten too much for whatever reason (I'm in no way dismissing binge eating and emotional ties to food as just greed-Heck I spent a year in therapy talking about it).
These days I like to be honest with myself, and honestly I think most people here will agree that we're losing weight because for whatever reason, we ate too much and gained weight.
I have read the entire thread and didn't see anyone even implying this -"as a previous poster basically said that people are overweight because they stuff their greedy little faces, yeah..." 3FC is not the kind of place you will find those kinds of comments.
I'd just like to take a moment and post some pictures of the iconic women who were celebrated for their curves "back in the day" - they are all "healthy" BMIs
...And to deny the fact that if getting to a "healthy" weight means taking drastic measures and getting down to a weight you can't naturally maintain... well it's just being blind...
But who is saying that getting "healthy" MEANS taking drastic measures? I am certainly in the healthy range in terms of BMI and bodyfat percentage, and I maintain that quite easily. I am active, I eat whole foods, and I enjoy "Treat/cheat" meals/days with my loved ones as well.
I look healthy because I *am* healthy, and behave accordingly.
But who is saying that getting "healthy" MEANS taking drastic measures? I am certainly in the healthy range in terms of BMI and bodyfat percentage, and I maintain that quite easily. I am active, I eat whole foods, and I enjoy "Treat/cheat" meals/days with my loved ones as well.
No, it clearly doesn't NOW, but when I was overweight it certainly did. I got to this weight the healthy way and never felt that I was being told by society or anyone that I had to stick my finger down my throat or become anorexic to get to where I am now.
I'd just like to take a moment and post some pictures of the iconic women who were celebrated for their curves "back in the day" - they are all "healthy" BMIs
Marilyn Monroe
Bettie Page
Josephine Baker
Sophia Loren
Brigitte Bardot
Actually, Sophia Loren would have been considered overweight by our standards, especially as a celebrity.
Marilyn Monroe - The BIGGEST symbol of beauty
Jane Russell
Liz Taylor
Need I say more?
Last edited by DisappearingActs; 09-18-2012 at 10:43 AM.
No, it clearly doesn't NOW, but when I was overweight it certainly did. I got to this weight the healthy way and never felt that I was being told by society or anyone that I had to stick my finger down my throat or become anorexic to get to where I am now.
It kind of feels like you just wanted to have something to say. Especially since you don't apply, yet you keep interjecting yourself... odd. Did you even read my post?
^ Medically speaking those women were all in the healthy ranges.
We still have female celebrities who are the same size/mold today; Sophia Vegarra, Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Jessica Simpson, Kate Winslet, Jennifer Hudson, Jordan Sparks, Jessica Biel (yes, she is in no way "underweight") Jennifer Lopez, the Kardashians, etc.
This thread posed the question of whether or not acceptance of overweight bodies as the new "normal" was a good or a bad thing. Nobody said that loving your body is bad... quite the opposite. However, the term "overweight" applies to the MEDICAL definition of what is considered to be too much body fat - at the point it begins to impact one's health.
Now, for each person that is a different number clearly, but the best the medical community can do is come up with an average range to fall into.
If we are again speaking MEDICALLY, and not by what is pleasing to the eye, then I absolutely think that it is a bad thing. The health of our nation is atrocious, and turning a blind eye to it for fear of hurting someone's feelings is rediculous. It's a shame that weight is such a taboo subject - if it weren't perhaps we could make more progress as a country toward getting healthier.
There are some good things coming out of the obesity epidemic, and that is a greater tolerance for OPEN weight loss efforts.
When I was a kid in the 70's, and joined Weight Watchers with my mother, I remember the shame that so many of the women voiced. Many of them didn't even tell their families that they had joined Weight Watchers because going to a "diet club" was on par with going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
There are still remnants of that culture of shame, and our culture places more shame on obesity than on alchohism. Worse (far worse), seeking treatment for obesity is often seen as more shameful than treatment for other behavioral problems.
If you're sober and going to AA, very few people will tell you that you "don't need AA anymore," or that you can start drinking again because you're sober.
If you're thin and going to OA, Weight Watchers, TOPS... you will be told that you don't need it anymore and can now eat "normally."
Even if you haven't lost any of the weight, people will pressure you to "live a little" and eat your trigger foods because "it's a special occasion."
When given a choice between cocaine and sugar, cocaine-addicted rats will choose sugar most of the time.
And yet we expect people to be able to "control" a sugar addiction while continuing to use sugar, while we would never expect that of a cocaine addict (Have you ever heard anyone but a cocaine addict say "you just have to learn to use cocaine responsibly").
I find it extremely strange that weight loss is still largely expected to remain "in the closet."
We treat obesity as if it's a huge, dark and dirty secret. We're not supposed to show recognition when we see it, we're not supposed to talk about it, we're not supposed to admit we need help in treating it. We're supposed to fix it on our own without talking about it. And no one tells us what normal weight loss really looks like, so we're all assuming we're failing if we're not losing at least 1 lb a week (because that's what we're told is normal, even though it isn't anywhere near normal. Most people who try to lose weight are failing, so even if you're losing a quarter pound a week, you're succeeding beyond that of the great majority of people).
Obesity is a greater health crisis than alcoholism, and yet in any given community alcohol treatment facilities, programs, and groups vastly outnumber obesity treatment. There's a tremendous amount of free help for alcoholism and virtually none for obesity (the free and funded programs are few and far between).
We really need to create an environment in which seeking a healthier lifestyle (whether obesity is involved yet or not) isn't seen as deviant, weird, or something that only the severely morbidly obese should be considering.
And the cost of treatment has to come down. Ideally the cost of healthy food would come down too.
As I mentioned in a previous thread, I have a severe problem with even the "good carbs" because they trigger such out of control hunger. My husband and I went through a period when our food budget was down to $25 to $50 a month. We weren't eligible for foodstamps because our income was a tad too high (though our medication and medical expenses were exceeding our rent).
We could have gone to the food pantry, but we were too ashamed (it didn't seem right to be hugely obese going to a food pantry - besides which most food pantries are overloaded with high-carb food, and are very low on nutritious food because everything has to be shelf-stable and carbs keep well).
I have a very good self-taught understanding of nutrition, so we ate "healthfully" by most standards. We lived on pasta (white because whole grain was too expensive), rice (white for the same reason), beans, cabbage, onions, carrots, celery, cheap ground beef extended with dry tvp, apples, oranges, raisins, bananas, dark meat chicken, and eggs.
I followed an exchange plan so I didn't gain weight, but I didn't succeed at losing weight and was unbearably hungry ALL OF THE TIME.
We do live in a nation in which unhealthy food is cheaper, more convenient, tastier, and given more emotional value than healthy food.
Most people don't even get 5 servings of fruits and veggies (even though we probably should be eating 10 or more). Many people aren't even getting one serving a day (unless you count potatoes and ketchup).
In some areas of the country, the average daily servings of fruit and non-starchy veggies is one.
This isn't just killing us "fatties" it's killing the skinnies as well. Weight isn't the most pressing issue, it's just the most obvious side-effect. We all have to be eating better and moving more.
Type II Diabetes isn't just showing up in the overweight population, it's becoming pervasive among all weight levels. Yes more obese adults and children are getting diabetes, but even thin folks and even thin children are getting the disease and are slowly dying of it, because our culture is overdosing on starch and sugar.
And yet we only single out the "fatties" as having a problem (and demand that they fix it without outside help because it's their own fault for having the problem)... but it's not just a fat problem, it's a culture-wide problem.
In some ways I worry more about the thin folks with the poor eating habits, because almost no one is alerting them to the problem. We fat folk know we need to make healthier changes (even if we're not sure how to go about it). But many perfectly healthy looking people are dying because the mirror tells them they're ok, when they're not.
People do better at solving problems when they do it as a group. And weight loss groups are becoming much more common, much less expensive (proportionally), and more acceptable. The online weight loss communities have grown exponentially as have IRL groups as well. In some ways, the obese may have the advantage. If we're trying to eat better and move more, even if we don't get all the weight off, we may be in better shape than the "normal looking" folk who are living unhealthy lifestyles because they look ok in the mirror.
I still firmly believe that obesity isn't the disease, it's the symptom of a much larger disease. We have to treat the disease, not just the symptom. Especially since I'm not sure fixing the symptom is helpful at all if it's not done right.
I don't believe that losing weight by unhealthy means is much better than the obesity itself. We can't just tell people "eat less" we have to say "eat better" and allow them the tools to do it.
Knowledge of nutrition is extremely poor, even among the experts in the field. Doctors especially are poorly educated on the subject (as in not at all, most doctors take no nutrition coursework).
