PCOS/Insulin Resistance Support Support for us with any of the following: Insulin Resistance, Syndrome X, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, or other endocrine disorders.

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Old 01-18-2002, 01:05 AM   #1  
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Default Glucophage alternatives

Has anyone tried any alternatives to Glucophage? I have stopped the Glucophage and plan to take Alpha Lipoic Acid.

First, I had some bad side effects with the Glucophage. It wasn't just upset stomach, but it was getting to the point to where I had to have a bathroom nearby whenever I went out to any public place. Also, I was starting to sweat ammonia. I didn't feel like this was too healthy for my kidneys, in addition to the the inconvenience of not wanting to do hard physical activity around others. Lastly, I am being treated for GERD/possible ulcer. If I am on Glucophage then I cannot take the families of medications available like Zantac or Pepcid. After I have been on it for some time I will have my fasting blood levels tested again and see how it goes.

If anybody has any stories/info I would love to hear it, and maybe compare notes after I have been on it a while.
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Old 01-21-2002, 02:08 PM   #2  
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Angry PCOS med alternatives

It's good to see you back!!! I've been away for a while.

You may want to speak with your doc about trying Actos or Avandia. I know that there are some PCOS women who have good results with these, too. They work pretty much the way the Metformin does (they force the insulin to work better). However, they tend not to have the stomach/intestinal effects that the Metformin does. They do, however, have a tendency to cause some weight gain. My recollection is, though, that it's a very small amount -- 3-10 lbs. And some ladies don't gain anything at all.

It may be worth a shot to check with your doc, especially since you seem to be having stomach problems anyway. Best of luck!

Lynn
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Old 01-26-2002, 02:53 PM   #3  
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Default Progesterone Cream?---long---

I found this article about natural progesterone cream while brouwsing on teh SOulCysters website. It was posted by the website's creater, so I give her the credit for offering the information, however, she includes links at the end regarding Dr. Lee and his philosophy and thus credit for the article.

Personally, I have found the cream to work as a means of regulating the cycle. HOwever, I was warned by my nutritionist of the posibility of inducing a cycle spontaneously. I guess that is of concern if someone is trying to concieve...you wouln't want to lose what you worked hard to create...anyway, thought it might be of interest. It was on an old post there, so I figured even if it had been posted here, it might be so old than some of the newer members might have missed it...


**********
Here is an article by Dr John Lee on PCOS and Natural Progesterone. At the end of the article I've included a link to his site that has a "Are your hormones in balance" test
===
POLYCYSTIC OVARY SYNDROME (PCOS)
A New Epidemic that Causes Infertility, Excess Hair, Acne and More
In the 30 years that I practiced medicine, I rarely saw a woman with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). Today, estimates are that 10 to 20 percent of women have PCOS, and I would guess that among young women the number is even higher, qualifying this as an epidemic.

I have had many e-mails and letters from women in their late teens and twenties with PCOS. Their doctors tend to prescribe two treatments, both of which affect symptoms only, and neither of which is particularly successful. One treatment, is temporary chemical castration, using either birth control pills, androgens (male hormones), androgen blockers, synthetic estrogens, Lupron or similar drugs that block hormone production. The other is prescribing the new oral drugs for Type II diabetes, which reduce insulin resistance. I have a much safer, simpler, more effective and less expensive approach that treats the cause and not just the symptoms of PCOS.

What Is PCOS?

PCOS refers to multiple cysts on the ovaries and a host of other problems that go along with them, including anovulation (lack of ovulation) and menstrual abnormalities, hirsutism (facial hair), male pattern baldness, acne, and often obesity. Such women may also have varying degrees of insulin resistance and an increased incidence of Type II diabetes, unfavorable lipid patterns (usually high triglycerides), and a low bone density. Laboratory tests often show higher than normal circulating androgens, especially testosterone.

PCOS occurs when a woman doesn't ovulate, which causes a disruption in the normal, cyclical interrelationship among her hormones, brain and ovaries. Normally, the hypothalamus, a regulatory center in the brain, monitors the hormone output of the ovaries and synchronizes the normal menstrual cycle. When monthly bleeding ends, the hypothalamus secretes gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH), which stimulates the pituitary gland in the brain to release follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH). These hormones direct an ovary to start making estrogen (mostly estradiol), and stimulate the maturation of eggs in about 120 follicles.

The first follicle that ovulates, releasing its egg into the fallopian tube for a journey to the uterus, quickly changes into the corpus luteum, which is a factory for making progesterone, and raises progesterone's concentrations to 200 to 300 times higher than that of estradiol. This huge surge of progesterone simultaneously puts the uterine lining in its secretory or ripening phase, and turns off further ovulation by either ovary.

If fertilization does not occur, the ovary stops its elevated production of both estrogen and progesterone. The sudden fall in the concentrations of these hormones causes shedding of the blood-rich uterine lining and bleeding (menstruation). Then, in response to low hormone levels, there is a rise in GnRH and the cycle starts all over again.

But what happens to this cycle if, for some reason, ovulation is unsuccessful? For example, if the follicle migrates to the outside of the ovary, but does not "pop" the egg and release it, the follicle becomes a cyst, and the normal progesterone surge does not occur. The lack of progesterone is detected by the hypothalamus, which continues to try to stimulate the ovary by increasing its production of GnRH, which increases the pituitary production of FSH and LH. This stimulates the ovary to make more estrogen and androgens, which stimulates more follicles toward ovulation. If these additional follicles are also unable to produce a matured ovum or make progesterone, the menstrual cycle is dominated by increased estrogen and androgen production without progesterone. This is the fundamental abnormality that creates PCOS.

Why Eggs Won't Pop and Progesterone Isn't Made

But what causes dysfunctional follicles that won't release eggs? I am convinced, from wildlife studies and from what I have observed in my practice, this is due to the exposure of female embryos to xenobiotics, environmental pollutants which chemically act like estrogen on the developing baby's tissues.

When a female embryo develops in the womb, 500 to 800 thousand follicles are created, each enclosing an immature ovum. Studies show that the creation of ovarian follicles during this embryo stage is exquisitely sensitive to the toxicity of xenobiotics. When the mother is exposed to these chemicals, she experiences no apparent damage. But the baby she is carrying is far more susceptible, and these chemicals may damage a female embryo's ovarian follicles and make them dysfunctional; unable to complete ovulation or manufacture sufficient progesterone. This damage is not apparent until after puberty.

Lifestyle Factors that Cause Dysfunctional Follicles

There are other factors that contribute to dysfunctional follicles. These include stress (leading to the production of high cortisol levels by the adrenal glands), lack of exercise, and poor nutrition. Stress alone can cause anovulatory cycles. Birth control pills shut down normal ovary function, and sometimes it never recovers when the pills are stopped. Our diets are full of petrochemical contaminants--also xenobiotics--that derail normal metabolism. We take prescription drugs such as Prozac that impair the functioning of our limbic brain, including the hypothalamus, which may affect the menstrual cycle.

The Diet Connection to PCOS

By far the biggest lifestyle contributor to PCOS is poor diet. Young women with PCOS tend to eat far too much sugar and highly refined carbohydrates. These foods cause an unhealthy rise in insulin levels. According to Jerilyn Prior, M.D., insulin stimulates androgen receptors on the outside of the ovary, causing the typical PCOS symptoms of excess hair (on the face, arms, legs), thin hair (on the head), and acne. Eventually this type of diet will cause obesity, which will cause insulin resistance (the inability of the cells to take in insulin) which will aggravate the PCOS even more. The androgens also play a role in blocking the release of the egg from the follicle.

Women who have a high number of dysfunctional follicles to begin with, due to xenobiotic exposure in the womb, will have worse problems if their diets are high in sugary foods and low in nutrition. Since this is exactly the type of diet favored by teens and young women, it's easy to understand why there is so much PCOS in that age group. Fifty years ago, the average person ate one pound of sugar a year. Today the average teenager eats one pound a week!Potato chips, corn chips, pasta and white rice are all highly refined carbohydrates that also act on the body much the same as sugars do.

I recommend that women with PCOS read one of the so-called "high protein" diet books such as Protein Power by Michael Eades, MD and Mary Dan Eades, MD, or Enter the Zone by Barry Sears, which both advocate a balanced approach to protein and carbohydrate intake. (I don't recommend the super high protein diets such as one recommended by Dr. Atkins.)

When you look at the whole picture of PCOS, you can understand why the hormone-blocking and insulin-lowering drugs don't work for very long. These approaches don't address the underlying cause of the problem, they only suppress symptoms. Improvement is only temporary and both types of drugs have terribly unpleasant side effects.

By the same token, you can't just take progesterone, and you can't just cut out the sugar. You usually need to do both. Exercise and good nutrition are also very important in maintaining hormone balance, and I have covered both at length in What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause.

Treatment of PCOS

I recommend supplementation of normal physiologic doses of progesterone to treat PCOS. If progesterone levels rise each month during the luteal phase of the cycle, as they are supposed to do, this maintains the normal synchronal pattern each month, and PCOS rarely, if ever, occurs. Natural progesterone should be the basis of PCOS treatment, along with attention to stress, exercise, and nutrition.

If you have PCOS, you can use 15 to 20 mg of progesterone cream daily from day 14 to day 28 of your cycle. If you have a longer or shorter cycle, adjust accordingly. The disappearance of facial hair and acne are usually obvious signs that hormones are becoming balanced, but to see these results, you'll need to give the treatment at least six months, in conjunction with proper diet and exercise. If your symptoms fade, try gradually easing off the progesterone (take half the dose, for example) and see how it goes. If your symptoms return, stay on the full dose for six more months. Ideally, as a young woman you would use the progesterone cream only during the months you need it, and encourage your body to return to its own normal hormonal rhythms as much as possible. Some women with many damaged follicles may always need to supplement with a little bit of progesterone cream.

Why Haven't Doctors Figured This Out?

There are several reasons why doctors don't recognize the role of progesterone deficiency in PCOS. They may not be aware that the hypothalamus responds not only to the rise and fall of estrogen, but also to the rise and fall of progesterone. Since standard tests usually indicate that a woman with PCOS has plenty of estrogen, and she is still having periods, the doctor assumes she is still ovulating and producing plenty of progesterone.

The odds of a woman having estrogen dominance and progesterone deficiency rise to 50 percent in the female population by age 35, yet doctors rarely measure progesterone concentrations. They may fear giving progesterone because of all the side effects caused by synthetic progestins, and may not be aware that natural progesterone, unlike synthetic progestins, is remarkably free of side effects when given in normal physiologic doses.

The Hormone Balance Test http://www.johnleemd.net/forms/hb_test.html

Article Source: http://www.johnleemd.net/sample_medltr.html#polycystic
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Old 01-29-2002, 09:10 AM   #4  
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Default Ah?

I have read about progesterone cream and hormones, but not since I was diagnosed with PCOS. The lady in the health food store told me that it doesn't absorb on everyone, but that it does have a good success rate. I looked at the tube, and it was about 2 ounces or so for $38. I just can't do that right now with all the other medication and supplements. If what I am doing doesn't help then this will definitely be worth trying. Hopefully a better eating plan and weight loss will take care of most of it.

Avandia causes weight gain? Hmm, that will be another one to consider down the road, but I don't want to risk any pounds right now.

Thanks for this info!!
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Old 01-29-2002, 04:52 PM   #5  
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Default It's been a while!!

Hi all,

I may cross-post this to an update area!! Just wanted to update you all. Jennifer glad to see your post and I too was taken off of Glucophage this last week.

My stomach was KILLING me at 3X a day. I was having not only the diarrhea but severe stomach cramping and stabbing pains. I took MYSELF off of it and knew I had my 2 month check with the Endo. the next week. I asked him how long my stomach would hurt and he said it could be up to 3wks. It's getting better each day, but now my body is swinging the opposite direction and I have constipation. It's been AWFUL!!

He confirmed that it was probably the Glucophage, would have taken me off of it, if I had called and put me Avandia. I saw the warning of the weight gain and WORRY with a "CAPTIAL W" about that. But since being on the Glucophage I've only stayed the same/gained the same 6lbs in the last 6-7 months.

Sam says, ever since the whole Glucophage thing, my weight loss seems to be screwed up. I feel fortunate to have a doctor that is VERY involved with the current studies on PCOS/Obesity/Diabetes. He recommends lowering my carbs, but doesn't want me on a low-carb diet. He feels the only way I'm going to lose anything more is to drastically (as in 1200 calories a day) lower my caloric intake. He said "How bad do you want to lose weight?"

I just bought a new program for my Palm that tracks calories/carbs for me. I'm working on lowering my calories, but it's going to have to be a gradual lowering, as I can't mentally do it all at once. If I eat a "healthy" at home, home-cooked day, I eat about 1400-1600 calories, if I eat out a lot that day and eat the SAME number of points (cause I'm still on WW), I can eat 1800 calories. Weird huh!!

As for progesterone cream. PLEASE PLEASE see a doctor before putting a DRUG into your body. My GYN, who has also sub-specialized in PCOS, WARNED me NOT to take this type of cream. Newer studies (like last year) came out to PROVE that PCOS is not inclusively a ovarian/progestrone problem. It being only a SIDE-AFFECT of the problem. It is truly a metabolic disorder, thus the reason some do NOT have poly-cystic ovaries.

I noticed that article mentioned that using insulin lowering drugs only COVER the problem, but this is not true at all. It actually affects how the body works and fixes those things (albiet in a chemical fashion).

Read up on the current findings. There's plenty out there and take care of yourself everyone!!

Yvonne
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Old 01-29-2002, 11:23 PM   #6  
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Default That makes sense!

Thanks Yvonne, you made a lot of sense with the progesterone cream. I shouldn't go off and do that unless I know exactly what is going on with my hormones. I didn't catch the part he said about Glucophage (or insulin lowering drugs in general) only covering the problem. I don't know why he feels that way because he does say also " insulin stimulates androgen receptors on the outside of the ovary, causing the typical PCOS symptoms of excess hair (on the face, arms, legs), thin hair (on the head), and acne."

It is one ugly circle. The pancreas secretes too much insulin, the insulin aggravates the ovaries, which aggravates hormones, etc.
If the insulin is in check the ovaries aren't as wild, right? Oh, it is all so confusing. Why couldn't I get a simple health problem!?

Other than that, I liked the article. It was easy to understand and made me a little clearer on some things.

I think the calories do make a difference also. I have been doing my own low GI plan, not really following anything in particular. I must be screwing up somewhere because I am doing the same 6 pound fiasco as you. This month, anyway. I have a Sugar Busters book and a Somersize book. I will have to stick to one of those.
I think they pretty much average out to 1200-1600 a day. I've been eating too much peanuts and cheese.

Good luck!

jennifer
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Old 01-30-2002, 02:55 PM   #7  
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I just wanted to clarify, i AM IN TOTAL AGGREEMENT THAT ANYONE SHOULD SEE A DOCTOR BEFORE TRYING THE PROGESTERONE CREAM.

I used to manage a health food store, and the scariest thing i noticed was people self medicating without seeing a practitioner before doing so. our bodies are a miraculous and yet very complicated thing, and everything affects them, from the food we eat to the lotions and shampoos we use. I opted for the progesterone cream only after testing to identify that i was indeed suffering from the ovarian cysts. (i did not want to use synthetic hormones,) I hope i did not imply that it would help everyone, or that it was something that could apply to cases wherein there were no ovarian cysts. (Please forgive me if it appeared that way.)

I only thought that since we were mentioning alternatives i would throw that in...personally i am following a medically supervised diet and excersize program as well as using the cream to regulate my cycle. i hope that one day after all the excess weight is gone my system will be able to regulate itself...thanks for your warning, some people may have misunderstood.


There is indeed a lot of lies and misleading information being pushed by the so called nutritional industry, and it is our duty as the public to sift through it and not assume that just 'cause "they" say it is safe, that it truly is.

=^..^=
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Old 01-30-2002, 05:14 PM   #8  
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Default Meow

Oh, don't worry, I didn't think you were suggesting it was for anybody(without a Dr, I mean)! I understand what you are saying though, some people jump on anything that might work and can do more harm than good. It would be nice though to have one cream that fixed so many things. I am taking a handful of pills each morning (doctor ok'd it) ...A vitamin B combo pill to help with my hair thinning, an extended release Alpha Lipoic Acid, one Chromium Picolinate, Doxycycline for my not so smooth jawline, and a couple of Zantac (prescribed)
for acid reflux. At night I repeat the Hair Nutrients and the Zantac. Cream on my arms would be heaven.
Hopefully as weight will come off, symptoms will subside.

Margarita Island sounds BEAUTIFUL.
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Old 01-31-2002, 06:09 AM   #9  
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JENNIFER Was doing a SB SEARCH and saw your message. As you probably know we have a great SUGAR BUSTERS SUPPORT BOARD right here on your site. Okay, I'm biased, but I say that in all honesty!

Anyhow, I'd be happy to help you figure out what's going on with the 6lb fiasco you mentioned if you want. It may be something as simple as not eating enough-something I find happens with many people. Teh SB book gives sample menus that are indeed about 1200 calories, but I never once followed those menus, many people need a lot more calories than 1200-1600. A low GI WOE is wonderful though and I couldn't be happier that I chose to follow this WOE almost 2 years ago (and 76 pounds ago as well).

Please feel free to drop over to our board at any time (not that you need an invitation, you know), or you can e-mail me directly @ [email protected]

Thanks for all the work you do on the board!

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Old 01-31-2002, 04:25 PM   #10  
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Hi all,

Been on the Avandia for 5 days and have gained 4lbs SO FAR!!!! When will this ever end. I mean, I lost weight when we didn't address this whole mess of insulin. My doctor ASSURES me I need this in order to try and prevent heart disease and stroke and diabetes. I say, it's making me FAT, isn't that increasing my risks. I just get SO TIRED!!!! Doesn't everyone else. I'm wondering if I'll be able to lose it??? I mean, if I go off of WW for 3 days, I gain IMMENSE amounts of weight. Did that last fall and gained 8lbs in 3 days and ate "normal" foods. I still haven't recovered from that. As now that I take medications, I only lose (if I'm lucky) 1lbs a month.

I realized today that I take 5 daily prescription medications and 4 of them are due to the PCOS and problems it's caused. Makes me feel old at 36 y/o.

Meowmew First I wanted to APOLOGIZE from the bottom of my heart. I NEVER meant that you were trying to mislead us or anything like that. Just wanted to share what my doctor said and make sure everyone was checking with their doctor before trying something that can have that kind of effect on your hormones.

Jennifer Just wanted you to know I bookmarked the whole thing you sent me a long time ago about Glucose and plan on reading through that stuff here in the next few days. Sam has weird days off and his were the last two so I don't get on the computer much. That's one reason it took me this long to reply to the messages.

Debbie Thanks for the heads-up on the message board for sugar busters.

Thanks for reading all the whinning, just having one of those days. As I see the scale gradually climb each day, I wonder when it will end.

Yvonne
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Old 02-20-2002, 02:38 PM   #11  
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My, oh my, PCOS really stinks doesn't it?

Maxsmom: I understand the weight gain thing, even though I've never been on Avandia. Was on WW pre-PCOS and lost 40 lbs. over 18 months (I learned how to cheat). Went to WW post-PCOS, and gained 2 lbs. the first week! It's a function of the syndrome, unfortunately. All those "normal" women can lose weight "relatively" easily, but us PCOSers have to work so much harder to overcome the insulin problem.





Jennifer 3FC: I know you're struggling, and I can relate. I spent a ton of time when I was first diagnosed researching and getting info, because my doc (at the time) wouldn't share. Don't work so hard on it, it will come with time. Also, don't let the weight loss (or lack thereof) get you so down. I know that's hard, but you have to keep in the context of the syndrome. You could follow a program perfectly, but your body is working against you.

Also, it sounds as if you are having hair loss/excessive hair concerns. Have you had your free and total testosterone checked? Mine were very high before I was treated. With my endocrinologist, we discussed options. Thus, I take aldactone twice a day (to help block testosterone at the hair follicle) and I use Vaniqa twice a day (to help inhibit the hair growth). I know it seems strange, but if you are losing head hair and gaining other hair, a lot of times the aldactone can help. Head hair loss is caused by excess testosterone as well (you know, male pattern baldness)? You might want to consider talking to your doc about either one of these. BTW, Vaniqa is a cream that you actually use on your face. I've had pretty good luck with the both of them in terms of keeping my facial hair growth down, and also in slowing re-growth of my leg hair.

Hope all is going well with everyone else.

Lynn
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Old 02-20-2002, 09:51 PM   #12  
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Hi Lynn, I haven't had my testosterone checked in over a year. I can't remember what the levels were..I was in a daze the whole time he was telling me my results! I go back to my ob-gyn in about a month or so and I will get it checked again. My hairline is receding and I have a patch thinning near my hairline. I used to have a LOAD of hair, I have always had remarks from anyone that ever cut my hair about how much I had. I guess I was lucky because the thinning isn't noticable to anybody else. Facial hair growth is mild. Nothing I can't pluck, but the fact that I have to pluck at all is annoying. Breakouts are mild-moderate, it fluctuates. A little bit of all three sucks!

You are SO positive, thank you so much for sharing your attitude with us. I feel a lot better about things reading your post.

Jennifer
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Old 02-21-2002, 01:53 PM   #13  
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Wow ladies I think I have learned more from this thread of messages than I have learned anywhere else since I was diagnosed with PCOS. Thanks first off. I have been questioning my Dr about excessive hairloss but he hasn't said anything. I think he that I thought it was from the Glucaphage. But now I am seeing that is one of the side affects of PCOS. I go back for a check up ( I am on clomid right now trying to get prego but it isn't working) so i think I will definatley bring it up. Just to make sure I wrote down as I read that one of you is using a vitamin B supplement to help and another is using a med called Aldactone. Right? I don't have any problem with excess hair thankfully but I do know that my pony tail used to be at least twice as thick as it is now. And it is starting to scare me. thanks again
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Old 02-27-2002, 12:25 PM   #14  
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MaxzMom....what palm program?
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Old 02-27-2002, 10:36 PM   #15  
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Default B vitamins

Hi Sara, I am one of the people that mentioned B vitamins. I am taking something called Hair Nutrients that I got at my health food store. I so far don't know if it is working, only been doing it about a month this time. I started taking them a couple of years ago before I knew I had PCOS and I did see significant hair growth where I was thin...my widow's peak had fallen out. At first it was nice cos I felt like Eddie Munster, but then I had a straight hairline and it was kinda scary! I now have it back...so I am hoping that those receding spots on my forehead are going to come back this time too...and yes, male pattern baldness is a side effect of PCOS.
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