[baffled111]

Wow! So much information! Thanks everyone.

HRBabe, thanks for the book recommendation. I’ll look into it—I can definitely use all the help I can get!

Ok, Depalma, you’ve convinced me to do not to the splits and to focus instead on large muscle groups. I like it!

I’m trying to understand the principles at work here, so please bear with me. I’ve translated your suggested upper body workout into terms that make sense to me, and it looks like this:

Upper Body, Variant One

Bench Press (push; chest)
(Assisted) Pull Ups (pull; back)
DB Military Press (push; shoulders)
Bent Over Row (pull; back)

Upper Body, Variant Two

DB Decline Bench Press (push; chest)
Lat Pulldowns (pull; shoulders)
Incline Bench Press/DB press (push; chest)
One Arm DB Row (pull, back)

Now my questions:
Am I to conclude that you’ve given me the variant so that one day I slightly emphasize my back and the other day I slightly emphasize my chest? Is that the principle at work or is it just the need for variety?

I notice that all the chest exercises are pushes and all the back exercises are pulls; shoulders are the only ones that have push and pull exercises. Can you tell me why that is? I thought you were supposed to do a push and a pull on each muscle group; is it rather than you’re just supposed to do general pushing and pulling regardless of the muscle group?

Are you sure that these chest/back/shoulders exercises are going to be enough for tightening up my arms? Beyond building muscle mass for calorie-burning purposes, and giving myself goals that will keep me going to the gym now that I’m maintaining, one of my primary reasons for weight training is to have nice arms for tank tops this summer. (Lame, I know, but there it is!)

Finally, I work out alone—no spotter. Can I really do bb bench presses (flat and incline) by myself without hurting myself by dropping a bar on my head? Is there any reason not to use dumbbells instead for all those exercises?

(I’m going to skip the supersets for the time being—there are A LOT of new exercises here for me—the only ones I’ve ever done are the assisted pull ups and the lat pulldowns—and I’d rather get comfortable with the general form and weight levels before I start messing around with supersets. Sound cool?)

I think the “2 for 2” method of progression might make more sense for me than the decreasing weight/increasing reps method, just because I don’t want to be messing around changing the weights all the time. I’m going to give it a shot and see how I go.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions! It’s great.

I did my first day of the lower body workout today and my legs feel stiff, sore and wobbly despite stretching out before and after—so it probably worked. I wound up doing (unweighted) stationary lunges rather than regular lunges because my knee began to twinge after the first set and one of the trainers showed me the alternative. I used super-light weights on the deadlift and complained later to the helpful trainer that I didn’t feel I had really gotten a proper workout—he put me up on a stepper and handed me a 25lb barbell; I think both of those things will help when I do lower body again later in the week. So, hooray! (I have to say, I love that there’s a trainer at my gym who always comes to help me when he sees me messing something up—poor form or not enough weight or whatever. I would probably feel much more wary about trying so many new exercises if I didn’t know that the-guy-who-always-helps-me was going to help me. One of these days I’ll have to start paying him )

Cheers!

[ebe]

nice, looks like a good workout to me but i just wanted to jump in to ask what planet that guy from your gym is from??
every gym i've ever been to, the trainers would and do stand by oblivious or uncaring of any boneheaded thing people (I) do. I really don't know why, it would be sooo nice if they would just say hey would you like to know the right way to do that? or something. it seems like it could net them business too you would think...

[baffled111]

Originally Posted by ebe

i just wanted to jump in to ask what planet that guy from your gym is from??

I'm with you. It's very strange. I'm at the gym every day during his shift so he sees me alot during the slow periods--that probably helps. Also, I live in a very small town in a very rural area--that probably helps too; people are freakishly friendly here. And you're right about the business too--you can hire these Y trainers if you want to, and when/if I decide to do that, there is no question which trainer will be the one I turn to.

By the way, a big thanks to those of you who chimed in to say that this thread has been helpful to you. You're relieving some of my guilt at having so many questions and being so demanding and high-maintenance

[Depalma]

[QUOTE=baffled111;1712490]

Upper Body, Variant One

Bench Press (push; chest)
(Assisted) Pull Ups (pull; back)
DB Military Press (push; shoulders)
Bent Over Row (pull; back)

Upper Body, Variant Two

DB Decline Bench Press (push; chest)
Lat Pulldowns (pull; shoulders)
Incline Bench Press/DB press (push; chest)
One Arm DB Row (pull, back)

Now my questions:
Am I to conclude that you’ve given me the variant so that one day I slightly emphasize my back and the other day I slightly emphasize my chest? Is that the principle at work or is it just the need for variety?

Not really. It works that way a bit. However, that is mostly because I don't like a lot of overhead pressing because I have had shoulder issues so I tend to use the Incline bench as a vertical push when it is a mixture of vertical/horizontal. The incline press will also hit your shoulders. If you'd like, you can substitute the incline bench for something like a seated smith machine shoulder press.

I notice that all the chest exercises are pushes and all the back exercises are pulls; shoulders are the only ones that have push and pull exercises. Can you tell me why that is? I thought you were supposed to do a push and a pull on each muscle group; is it rather than you’re just supposed to do general pushing and pulling regardless of the muscle group?

That is just natural biomechanics. The chest is basically used in pushing movements and the back predominantly in pulling. I concentrate on balancing my pushes and pulls and balancing my workout in both the horizontal and vertical planes.

Are you sure that these chest/back/shoulders exercises are going to be enough for tightening up my arms? Beyond building muscle mass for calorie-burning purposes, and giving myself goals that will keep me going to the gym now that I’m maintaining, one of my primary reasons for weight training is to have nice arms for tank tops this summer. (Lame, I know, but there it is!)

As I said earlier, you can do your pullups/ pulldowns and rows with a supinated (underhand grip). This will hit your biceps more. Trust me, you biceps are getting hit plenty on your rows and chinups. Trust me, I'm sure you can barbell bent over row about twice the load that you can barbell curl. Heavier load for the same set/reps will build more muscle in the long run.

Finally, I work out alone—no spotter. Can I really do bb bench presses (flat and incline) by myself without hurting myself by dropping a bar on my head? Is there any reason not to use dumbbells instead for all those exercises?

Don't worry about doing the barbell bench then. It is not required in the least. The exercises are just samples. The movement patterns are the real program. The use of the barbell for some exercises was to try to give you a blend of two handed work with some one-handed work. It's not critical that you use a barbell for any of the movements, particularly when safety is an issue.

For this sample program, given the feedback you gave, I would move the DB Decline press to day 1 instead of the BB Bench Press. On the second day, we will now utilize the DB incline press as your horizontal push and we will plug in Assisted Dips. These dips will also serve to give your triceps a bit more work. If you still are not getting enough arm work for your liking, then substitute the DB Decline Press entirely and do pushups with your hands in closer to your body to hit the triceps hard.

Finally, if you still are not satisfied that you arms are getting worked hard enough, throw in a bit of isolation. On day 1, do some type of standing curl. Barbell, EZ Bar, DB it's all good. Alternating curl, regular curl, hammer curl...you choose. Pick a weight that you think you can lift for 8-12 reps. Do one or 2 sets to failure. If you can complete all the reps or go more than 12, increase weight next time. On day 2, do the same thing but pick a good tricep exercise like tricep pushdowns, Overhead tricep extensions, DB skullcrushers, or even some kickbacks.

(I’m going to skip the supersets for the time being—there are A LOT of new exercises here for me—the only ones I’ve ever done are the assisted pull ups and the lat pulldowns—and I’d rather get comfortable with the general form and weight levels before I start messing around with supersets. Sound cool?)

Sounds cool

[Mel]

Baffled- IMO, you can use dumbbells for any of the exercises where you would use a bar, and I think dumbbells are preferable. You get a lot of "extra" muscle-nerve-brain connection by having to balance them with each arm, plus BOTH your arms are supporting the same amount of weight so the muscles being worked are doing the same amount of work. Even with a free barbell you don't get quite the same feedback as with dumbbells. You can also use dumbbells vs. a bar as another variation. Because using a bar locks your hands and arms into one particular position, sometimes you work the same muscles from a slightly different angle than if you were using db's.

By nature, all chest exercises are "pushes", and shoulder exercises are "pushes" and all back exercises are "pulls". Legs are push and pull.

If one of your main goals is firm arms, add a set of curls and a set of some sort of tricep exercise. I no longer work biceps directly either (usually) because I do a lot of pullups and dumbell cleans. But I still do a few sets of dips or skullcrushers for triceps. Another good tricep/chest exercise is close handed pushups. To really emphasize triceps and abs. do it with your hands on a medicine ball.

Mel

[baffled111]

Fantastic! Thanks guys. I'm excited to get started with my first new upper body workout today.

Incidentally, my legs are *killing* me today. All those lunges and things have reminded me that I have butt muscles Ouch!

[baffled111]

I'm bumping this thread because I think all the newcomers should get to read it. I've been doing the routine described in this thread for the last 7 weeks and I have seen such amazing improvement in my body. It's fantastic! People I barely know have been commenting on my increased tone and muscle, and the people I know well are becoming very jealous of my buffness

I've started to add in more isolated exercises, and I've moved from wall squats to barbell squats to hack machine squats (100lb including the machine itself!), but basically I've been following this routine since I started this thread and I'm really, really happy. Therefore, I should like to heartily recommend it as a starter routine for someone who works out at a gym. If you're still losing you won't have such obvious results as I have had, I imagine, but it is all still good, good, good.

Thanks everyone for being so helpful! I'm tremendously grateful.

[OH2007]

Wow, thanks so much for this thread (and bumping it into view)!