Extreme Vanity sizing at Target
 

:dizzy:

I find this scary.

I compared two pairs of jeans, both size 12.

The pair of jeans that is size 12 from the Gap is five years old, and the last time I wore them was five years ago when I weighed 160 pounds. I took and ruler and measured. The spread between button and button hole on the top of the jeans is TEN inches. I am not even close to being able to fasten them.

The other pair of jeans is size 12 from Target, and they are hanging off me. I now weigh 190.1 pounds.

So I pulled out a size of old Karen Kane jeans, size 14. These are about ten years old. I cannot even fasten them without sucking in my breath.

This is not a matter of jeans cut differently. These are dramatically different sizes. It seems that this sort of dramatic vanity sizing leads to an increase in obesity just as surely as eating fast food every day.

I see threads where people say "size 12 is not obese." Well, as an obese woman with a BMI of 31.6 wearing size "12" Target jeans that are so loose I have to wear a belt to keep them from slipping off, it depends on the jeans.

I am annoyed because size 12, even with Vanity Sizing, should certainly not be too big. Then I can go buy a pair of 10 jeans and kid myself that I am a 10. If sizes were consistent with what they were a few years ago, I would be wearing a size 16 right now. Of course, I would have been in great despair if my size 18 Target jeans were sized correctly -- they probably should have been a 24 at least.

So what do you think? Have you seen this, too?

There are several threads about exactly this - and I agree it's a huge problem with making us think we aren't getting "that big".

When I was 18 in 1988 I wore a size 16 and I weighed 179 (unfit) pounds.

Skip forward and I gain a ton of weight.

When I was 30 in 1999 I lost a lot of weight, was getting fit - I wore a size 14 at 185 lbs. First bit of vanity sizing had happened.

Then I gain up to 275 - I wear a tight 20.

Now I'm 42 in 2012, lost a lot of weight - I wear between an 8-10 at 169 lbs.

When I get to goal I will probably wear an 8 pretty solidly in jeans - 10s/12s in dresses depending on the cut of the bust. (I have a large rib cage and big boobs).

HOWEVER, I have a size 16 LLBean skirt that fits me perfectly now - from 1994. I now wear a 10 in LLBean skirt. Vanity sizing is real.

I weighed about the same (up and down the same 20-40 pounds for nearly a decade). I wore a size 20. When I got to my highest, since I could still wear a 20, I didn't think much of it - not realizing that between the times I bought pants they had supersized the pants and my 20 was probably what used to be a 24 or 26!

I am a large built woman - every frame indicator things says so. That "I" at 169 pounds - still a bit chubby (and only a bit) can wear a size 8/10 is cracy ridiculous. WIth my large frame, I should always been on the verge of the plus size clothes - but yet I have to buy medium size underwear. Medium tops... that is craziness.

I agree, vanity sizing is definitely getting out of control. Is this some sort of strategy they hope will boost sales? Because honestly it makes me feel uncomfortable and also, it makes it really hard to shop online because I'm not sure what size is going to fit me properly. Have people gotten so large these past years that they have to modify sizes? Because I don't see shoes sizes getting altered in any way. They should rethink this whole vanity sizing because it's not helping anyone, especially not women who get the illusion of a healthy weight.

Yes. I did it once in high school -- comparing a pair of jeans I had vs a pear I inheritted from my mother and the vanity sizing was clear then. And this was the early 1990's! I can only imagine the disparity today in a comparison.

In the end though, there's no fashion police checking my tags. I just want to wear whatever flatters at the place I am at.

A.

Trying ro make sense of sizing is an exercise in futility. I just don't worry about it, I take at least two sizes into the dressing room, I also carry a tape measure with me. I buy what fits and don't care what the number says.

I'm in my 20s and I've seen it. I had clothes from middle school where I wore a 11/13, or a size 14 in women's and those clothes didn't fit me until I hit a size 10, or 8 in some cases.

I am old enough to remember when finding a size 12 in a mainstream store like The Limited (THAT should date me!) was like finding gold. I was about 140 pounds and had to SQUEEZE to get into a 12.

Vanity sizing exists. There are more big people and people in general are bigger. Communities aren't built to be walkable, people work long hours, kids are over scheduled, and most of our food isn't real. These are all big problems.

Changing numbers on clothes are an INDICATOR of big problems but they are not the CAUSE. What are the alternatives? No clothes for fat people? Bigger numbers so fat people can fell the full force of the shame of their "real" size? Keeping the "thin" numbers just for the real thin people who have eared them?

Of course there should be clothes for fat people, but it's not like there still aren't super skinny people out there. There are now 00 clothes because the size 2 is what used to be a 6. They should just make the numbers go higher - 24,26, 30, 32 or Gosh, maybe go by waist measurement like men's pants - waist and hip and length?

Some companies are going that route - thank goodness. Calvin Klein will now say 30-10 for 30" waist. Some go by waist size on 27, 28, 29. And that makes soooooo much more sense than making a 16 into a 10 and then making a 6 into a double 0.

It may not be the cause, but I think it is a contributing factor.

Thank you for all of your insights on this! I homeschooled for years and could not easily try on clothes, so I just picked up clothes. We should know our size and our weight, and denial is a coping mechanism. I think I may start an online petition about this. I am off to find the other threads.

re:
 

Really..........I may have to try some jeans on at Target.

It doesn't bother me so much, but I get annoyed that the XS yoga pants there fall off of me, but they don't have an XXS and I'm definitely not an overly thin woman.
When I was in college and got really fit I had to wear children's clothes!

I had to return size 14 jeans at Coldwater Creek because they were huge. I wear a size 12 at Coldwater Creek Now look at my ticker. There is no way I should be able to wear a size 12 at my height and weight, and I never wore a size 12 even when I was 24 lbs lighter than I am now.

I'm really a 16 (or what used to be a 16).

Oh well, at least there are clothes out there that I can wear, and look good on me - and for that I am happy.

When I was in high school and was about 105lbs, I had a size 4 skirt that fit perfectly. I also had a vintage size 10 or 12 dress that fit perfectly back then.

After losing weight post dd2, I weighed 125-130 and again wore size 4. Definitely nothing like the same size 4. ;) That was only 5-6 years ago. Has vanity sizing gotten worse since then? I guess I'll find out in another 20lbs.

Years ago I was thin. I am 5'7" tall.
I weighed 125 pounds and wore a size 10.
I was 36...24...38
Size 12 was too large.

Now it's plastered all over these forums that people my height and weighing 185 pounds are wearing size 12. At 165-175 pounds they are wearing a size 10?

Women are getting sooo very excited to be wearing size 10 when in reality the label should say size 16/18.
:dunno:

I think it would be much better if we all went by actual waist/bust/hip measurements instead of unreal clothing sizes in these forums.

When someone gets so very excited about fitting into a size 2...what are their measurements? (They probably are a size 10.)
:?:

The bust/waist/hip measurements would be a much truer guage of our size.

When you go just by crazy clothing sizes, you are fooling yourself into thinking you are slimmer than you really are. This can really throw you off your dieting.

We need to talk measurements more than clothing sizes to get a truer picture of what we really look like to others.

Taking a size 18 label and replacing it with a size 12 label does not make us thin. That unrealistic label is not a reason to think we are now the size of a runway model. Yet I constantly see people ecstatic that they are wearing a size 12...when in reality they are a size 18.

Marla, I really agree with you. I have been too lazy to hunt for my tape measure, but I keep it by my scale. My initial hip measurement when I started January 3 was 47 inches, and a week ago it was 41 inches. I started this journey wearing Target jeans size 18, which I now think is probably a real 24 or 26.

Here is a chart with standard sizes -- I would have been a 24 to start and now would be a 16 or 18:

http://www.dresssizes.org/uk.htm

For a size 12, my hips would have to be a full ten inches slimmer. Coincidentally, that was exactly the amount on the ruler that I measured when my old Gap jeans would not close.

Well those are UK sizes, which run very different than US sizes. Are you in the US or the UK?

Same thing happens to me. XS yoga/workout pants are too big so I've gone into the kids department and bought yoga pants there. At least they're cheaper! I stocked up when Old Navy had a sale on the children's yoga pants. The larget kids sizes also have the 31" inseam I need so I guess it's a win-win.

i find it EXTREMLEY difficult if not impossible to believe that at 125 and 5'7 you were wearing a size 10, how much would you have to weigh to be a size 6 then? 100lbs

i dont know why .... but you irk me,

i am aware of vanity sizing .... but your just being a little unreal here

I agree! My husband is like this - :dizzy: when I try to explain sizing to him. He's like... "ermmm my waist is 34" so I wear size 34... what the eff is a size 8?"

And, It's getting out of control, truly. You can see my stats, I'm far from being a tiny person... but I wear a size S and sometimes an XS in tops. WTH will I wear when I'm at goal??? it's ridiculous.

She said years ago. That completely makes sense. That would probably be a size 4 or 6 today?

re:
 

Yes, but it feels good none the less. :)

even at it being years ago ... what would you have to weigh years ago to get into a size 4 then? 90 lbs?

i know that vanity sizing exisists but even years ago im sure 125 was about a size 8

5'7 is a very tall woman .... im 5'6 myself and i know for a fact im very tall and hold my weight / size better than my friends who are closer to the 5 foot end of the spectrum ..

i could believe that 125 could equal a size 10 for someone who was 5'4 or under but idk about someone as tall as 5'7

Well you have to remember that the size shift means the creation of smaller numbers, not sizes. Years and years ago (like wayyyyy back in the 50s) there was no size 0. The sizes STARTED at higher numbers and started shifting around as the clothing industry evolved. The numbers shifted around and they still do to match the customer sizes.

This is why there is talk of negative sizes. Keep shifting the numbers around and eventually smaller women don't have clothes to wear. Already I am a size 0 in some stores and I see many women thinner than me and according to the Gap's size chart all of their pants should be big on me.

Hmmm...I remember my tall friends taking size 10 at 125 pounds. -- I remember one of my friends being so excited when she fit into size 8. This was year 1989-1990.

CHUNKEY_MUNKEY, please be respectful with your words ;)

Sizing has changed a LOT over the years. My mother's wedding dress was a size 12 and so was mine. If you lay them on top of one another her's is like half as wide as mine is. She's 5'9" and was probably around 130 when she wore it. I was 185 when I got married.

Sizing has changed a lot. Twiggy, at 5'6" and 90lbs was something like a size 8 or 10 in the 60s. Sizes did not go down to 0 or 00 then.

Sizes didn't go down to 0 or 00 in the late 80s either.

I am 5'3.5".
I took size 0 and petite 0 (00) when I was 96-100 pounds. 1991-1993
108 pounds put me into 2's (1997)
At 117-122 pounds I was wearing size 6 (1995).
At 145 pounds in 2008 I was wearing size 6.

I guess one has to be old to remember this stuff "lol"

I've never understood why people are so bothered by "vanity sizing", often referring to the old size structure as being the "real" size that someone would wear.

Either way, that was then and this is now and it is what it is so what's the big deal?

i didnt say anything wrong?

i dont have the right to be irked by someone? in an earlier thread id started she in my opinion bashed the idea of having personal goals and imposed her own ideal of what my goal weight should be it seemed that i was not the only one who saw it that way either
and in my opinion in this thread she also is being super negative towards overweight people which most of us here are/were (hence us being here) i dont know why i cant be irked ?






and as for evreyone else who commented on how much the sizing had changed .... i know sizing has changed i just didnt think its changed by a huge measure ... a size or two most i thought?

also one poster mentioned that there was no size 0 back then , i had no idea the sizes started higher up ... that does make sense though ... i think i like the idea of that .....

im the only one of my friends in a size 16 (GRRRRR and :( all at the same time) .... i find myself jealous of all the women who wear a size 00 ..... i feel like evreyone is in the range of a size 00 - size 2 and it feels impossible .....

The big deal, for me at least, is I'm finding I'm having the opposite problem finding clothing that I did when I was obese. What's the point of getting to goal if they're not going to make clothes that fit me anyway?

valrock idk how old you are but my guess is in your early to mid twenties ...

i wouldent stress not being able to find clothes .... certain designers cut very small you will definitley be able to find clothes .....

a list of places you may want to try though

bebe
dehlias (spelling?)
victoria secret catalouge (also spelling??)
top shop ( not sure if that is available where you live )
AlX
calvin klein makes a line of slim cut jeans etc that is for the waif thin !
Anne taylor loft
also look for celebrity lines ....

My Best friend is about 5'5 and 110 lbs she swears by abby dawn , true religion and little boutiqe shops she always looks great !

i always said places like target, old navy, gap, walmart and the likes where for average people ... for average daily clothing ..... if your thinner than that ... then why not shop in fancier stores? shop clearance ! it can be done !

Thanks for your answer. It truly was an honest question- not meant to sound snarky at all.

I guess in my mind, since I've never been a S or XS before, it wasn't immediately clear to my brain that when sizes go up the #chart, others go down, totally knocking some off the racks all together. I can see how that would be frustrating for those who desire to be at a lower goal weight/size.

I'm a 29 year old soccer mom, on a military budget, but thanks ;).

Edit- Point being, I'm hoping I can still shop at Target!

grrr sorry ... i totally did not mean to diss your ( or anyones preferance of stores )

i guess im in such a hurry to get out of those stores i assumed evreyone else is ...

ive always prefered to shop in stores that kept the sizes together you know? like just one womens section no plus sizes or anything just standard size 2- 20 ..... so i wouldent feel like i shopped in the plus size section .... even when i shop at stores like charolette russe ( i happen to prefer them to forever 21 because they have most styles available in a XL ) i always secretly cant wait to shop at stores that have a maximum size of like a size 7/8 .... they seem to have so much more variety and color choice and fun unique things ... to me ( and it would appeal to me .... your talking to someone who attempted to dye a rainbow in to her hair ... no im not a lesbien i just like it lol )

i assumed evreyone else felt the same way i totaly did not mean to diss target though just fyi and if i did im SO sorry !

Scarily in my experience Target is among the least dramatic with the vanity sizing, at least with the junior section. I haven't been able to fit into any of it for a while, but my roommate and I were there the other day, and she bought a size 13/14 without trying it on because she usually wears a 10 or 12 and they looked small, but she couldn't even button them. She had to get a 15/16, and even those are tight.

Old Navy seems to be the worst from what I've seen. They run huge.

LOL this!!

I joked around a couple of months ago that it would be totally funny if I had the opposite problem—that I couldn't find clothes because I was too small vs too large.

Yeah well it's happening.

Ah well. I'm short enough to shop in the kid's department at least.

Val, you made me totally think about this; I want to shed another 25 pounds, maybe even 30. That would put me in 120 pound range. -- I have lost 20 so far.... So at 120 pounds and age 45 I will be left with limited options. The teenager stores will be out of the question, because I simply don't want to look ridiculous at the age of 45 :D

Kinda summarizes our society; we are almost expected to be heavy when approaching middle age. :(

My problem with vanity sizing is only that it makes it SO hard to shop for clothing and know what you're getting. Consistency from store to store would be nice! Especially since I'm so tall (and no, I don't agree with whoever posted before that 5'6" or 5'7" is "very tall" :) ) that I really can only find pants that are an appropriate length by ordering online. My tactic has to be ordering several sizes that I think might fit and then returning whatever doesn't work. Total PITA.

Where vanity sizing actually works out for me is that, again due to my height, I will never ever ever be so small that I can't find clothes small enough. Just not going to happen. The very smallest I can even imagine fitting into someday if I lost way below my goal would be an 8. If we were still using traditional sizes, I'd be relegated to plus size stores for the rest of my life, even well into the healthy weight range.

Clothing sizes are EXTREMELY difficult to deal with. I've studied this some and because women's bodies vary so much even just listing measurements like Bust/Waist/Height are extemely deceptive.

For instance, how would you pick the measurements for a dress like this?
http://biubiu.pl/product_picture/fit...72050f1f93.jpg
It's fitted at both the underbust AND the waist. That means you need to have two measurements that are fitted to a women's body. However, in my underbust survey I found that for women with the same waist measurement could vary up to 9" in their underbust!!!! That's a huge difference, so there's no way to accurately size a dress that's going to include everyone. If a women has a larger underbust than waist she might have to size up whereas a women with a smaller underbust may have to size down. So even though they have the same waist measurement they could look at a size chart and think WTF? This is completely wrong! :dizzy:

Another example is with pants. Someone posted about having a size 10 in the 120's. Sure, why not? If you have a very nipped in waist with wide hips it's possible. My torso is the complete opposite (very straight up and down) so I actually have to size down about 3 sizes compared to what size charts tell me because the differential between my waist and high hip- where pants actually sit on you- is only about 2-3" whereas manufacturers assume that it's 5-6". That being said I know women who have a 9-12" differential and they definitely need to size up. To see more look here: http://braslessinbrasil.blogspot.com...ts-sizing.html

Now, as to the question of vanity sizing. It's a hard one. I'm getting to be on the smaller end of the spectrum. As is, I wear the smallest band of bras offered (28) and in many stores I'm a small (in terms of pants I'm a 4). However, I'm still 5lbs overweight and back at my lowest in high school (I weighed 20lbs less than I do now) I wore a size 8, never once a 6. Clearly vanity sizing is out there.

Personally, I'd prefer companies to list just the measurements that are relevant to that particular piece of clothing. It would take some brains on the consumer's behalf (and a measuring tape) but it would save a lot of $$ on returns from both ends. I'd love it if stores would offer to measure you for free, have a database of their clothes on hand and point out what might work for you.

For instance, an empire waisted dress vs. a dropped waist dress have very different needs in terms of measurements. So why bother with listing a waist measurement because neither one would be very accurate?

Now, the sizing out women issue is real, though, and is one that needs to be dealt with. I know of some companies that still have a larger selection for smaller women:
Pinup Girl
Collectif
BiuBiu

and what's great about Pinup girl, for instance, is that they list the individual measurements on each item. BiuBiu you can actually show by your bust size (which varies per size) AND they have different models showing each item of clothing.

That's really the way to go, especially as online shopping becomes more and more prevalent.

In general, I find cheaper stores (meaning less expensive) are more likely to vanity size. Target, Old Navy, etc. seem to do it more often than places like Ann Taylor. I am not sure why this is, although it might have something to do with the manufacturers they choose.

Actually, though, I find the CUT of clothing to be more frustrating than the size number. Jeans that dig in my belly are too loose in the thigh/rear. Dresses that fit my waist are too snug in the boobs.

Finding clothing that fits well and looks good is a pain, vanity sizing or not!

I remember in high school back in 1987 (yes old!) I was 145 and wore a 14/16. I had a terrible time because those weren't even sold in normal stores.

I'm pretty sure yeah, you'd have to weigh something like 100 lbs to fit into a 4 or 2.

I'm going to my mother's house in the summer, and I'm planning to find those old 14 jordache jeans (omg!) I had and bring them home with me just to compare them with what I have.

I wish women's would work just like men's sizes.
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