[TJFitnessDiva]

Originally Posted by CountingDown

to all of our self-loathers out there.

I just want to shake each and every one of you, and then hug you again.

EVERYONE has issues and things about themselves they want to improve. There is not one person alive that is perfect or perfectly happy with everything about themselves.

We ALL make choices that aren't the best and some that actually hurt us (physically, emotionally, spiritually).

Life is a journey, and not every path we take will benefit us. Some will be rocky, some hilly, some fraught with big pits and traps.

Please, please, please - step back and look at all the wonderful things that make up YOU. YOU are wonderful and unique and special - just the way you are. If your extra weight wasn't causing you pain, something else would. So, accept what is. Practice affirming all the wonderful qualities you do have.

Be thankful that you CAN do something about your health and fitness level - that a solution is totally within your reach - and that your success is literally in your hands

So many folk are suffering from problems to which there are no easy solutions. Count your blessings and enjoy the journey!

I couldn't have said it better myself

Don't dwell on the past...it's over and done with but you can do something about your present & future. YOU are your biggest obstacle and it doesn't have to be like that. As soon as I let all of my self hate go a whole new world opened up for me.

[86tolose]

Thanks everyone for all of the honest replies. For the most part I am okay with the weight but how bad my stomach looks bugs me to the point that I will not even look in the mirror from the chest down when I do not have clothes on because I hate looking at it. It hangs pretty far and I get yeast infections constantly under there because of the skin touching. I have already talked to my husband about getting a tummy tuck once I lose weight and we are done having kids because the more weight I lose the lower it hangs and it just gets in the way.

[TJFitnessDiva]

It'll get better with the more weight you lose...I'm not saying you won't have lose skin (I do but it's just a slight annoyance but Spanx fixes it!) but I know my belly flap is now a small pooch instead of the apron flap thingy. I am fascinated on how much it shrank

For now though try putting baby powder or corn starch in the areas you get yeast infections...yeast thrive on moist areas.

[kaplods]

I really think that we're often taught self-loathing. It's the "correct" response to obesity and diet failure in our culture (and other life situations also, such as divorce, job loss, bankruptcy...).

I went through periods of self-loathing well into my mid 20's, but I don't think I really hated myself (but I knew I was supposed to, so I went through the motions, even to myself, but deep-down, I don't think I ever completey bought into the idea that I was a horrible person for being fat - rather I was a good person who happened to be fat).

But the thing is, I'm intelligent, hard-working (not so much anymore, due to disability), compassionate, generous, and have an awesome sense of humor, even about myself. My current disability is partially the result of my failure to control one aspect of my life, my weight. However, also contributing was my drive to prove to the world that while I might be fat, I wasn't stupid or lazy. That drive led me to finish high school a semester early, college a year early, and to go on to graduate school (all in psychology - ultimately, I think I was trying to figure myself out - because "everyone knows" fat people are "crazy"). After I graduated (while working full time) I rarely worked less than 40 hours a week, and many times 70 hours or more. I did shiftwork most of my career, and in social service, shift work can be very unpredictable. Double shifts and erratic shift schedules are common). Basically, I was burning the candle at both ends, and it eventually caught up with me (the autoimmune disease that is attacking primarily my respiratory system and skin may also have been exacerbated by the sleep disruption also, as in animal studies sleep-deprived animals eventually die of immunity issues - either the immune system goes into overdrive, attacking itself in autoimmune disease, or the immune system is weakened and the animal succumbs to infection).


In my late 20's, I found the "fat acceptance" movement, and it saved my sanity. I don't believe in the "fat doesn't cause health problems," position that's common in the group, nor the ulterior agenda of hooking up fat people (mostly women) with fat fetishists. However, the message of "being fat doesn't make you a horrible person," really allowed me to embrace and enjoy life. One of the strongest messages of the movement is tht fat doesn't have to prevent you from living a whole and active lifestyle. I'd been raised to believe that a fat woman "looked ridiculous," exercising or being in public. I had always wanted to to ride horses, but every time a horseback riding opportunity presented itself (in girl scouts, for example) my mother would talk me out of going - usually on the grounds that I would look ridiculous, or would injure the horse (I was only about 200 lbs at the time, so the horse supporting my weight, wasn't really at risk. For a long time, I hated my mother for her tactics on the subject, but eventually I realized that she had been resorting to extreme tactics because she was terrified that I would get hurt - though I wished she had been honest and said that, instead of convincing me that I would "hurt the poor horse," and worse that most forms of physical activity were inappropriate, at least in public, for obese people).

It was very liberating and amazing to feel that I had a right to bicycle, swim, dance, date and do anything I wanted, in the body I had - and that even if I chose to diet I didn't have to put my life on hold until I reached some magic number on the scale.

I think that in our society we believe that people can (and should) "hate themselves thin." The opposite has been my experience. I don't treat myself with respect, unless I feel worthy of that respect. Being healthy is about taking care of yourself, and if you hate somebody (even yourself) it's really hard to be enthusiastic and committed to taking good care of that person.

Of course I regret many of the mistakes I've made in my life, but none have been unforgiveable (though I'm a Christian and believe no sin is unforgiveable, still, in the scheme of things obesity doesn't top the immorality list). Many of the mistakes I made were because I didn't have accurate information. Many of the dieting traditions in our culture aren't very effective and can even be counterproductive. I grew up at a time when good weight lost was the fastest weight loss - acheived by starvation diets. Being "good" meant eating 800 calories and doing hours of exercise (if you had any strength left to do so). Anything less was being weak-willed.

If you think about it, there are many traditions that even though we've always known they're "wrong," still find ourselves in the habit because it's such a cultural norm. It's "how things are done." Starting a diet on a Monday, first of the month, or first of the year - it's how "it's done." As if, starting a diet on a Thursday would release havoc on the universe in some way. Binging after a food slip ("I've blown it, so I might as well keep eating out of control until I can start fresh - tomorrow, Monday Morning, the forst of the month, after the holidays...).

We blame ourselves for these behaviors (because we're taught to do that to), but we learned them because they're societal norms.

I'm not "blaming" society, just acknowledging that there are a lot of factors that contribute to obesity, and not every single one is our fault. Being overweight doesn't mean that we necessarily have a moral defect, or defect in character that is responsible for our obesity. Other-wise amazing people can be overweight, but the all-or-nothing, black and white way that we view obesity, I believe actually contributes more to the problem than to the solution. So many people believe that losing weight requires an iron-will, that only the most extreme methods of weight loss are even considered, and any slip is evidence of (often moral) weakness.

I think learning to view obesity as a health issue, not a moral one, is really vital to success for many people. I think self-loathing does more to contribute to unhealthy behaviors than to healthy ones. If a thin person were to go to the doctor and discover they have diabetes, the rational response isn't to hate themselves for having diabetes. Hate is not a prerequisite for change.

Even in at-fault situations, such as a person getting behind the wheel drunk and ending up in a wheel-chair (at least if they haven't injured anyone else) - hating the behavior makes sense, but only to a point. At some point, a person has to forgive themselves in order to move on.

I really do think that we only take care of the people we love, or at least like an awful lot, so it makes no sense to pile self-loathing on ourselves.

[Jacquie668]

Originally Posted by 86tolose

Thanks everyone for all of the honest replies. For the most part I am okay with the weight but how bad my stomach looks bugs me to the point that I will not even look in the mirror from the chest down when I do not have clothes on because I hate looking at it. It hangs pretty far and I get yeast infections constantly under there because of the skin touching. I have already talked to my husband about getting a tummy tuck once I lose weight and we are done having kids because the more weight I lose the lower it hangs and it just gets in the way.

Super I'm with you with the tummy issue lol. Mine hangs and has gotten better, yes, but yet there it is lol. I mean all I can do right now is keep on trucking, keep on going, keep on with my journey and when the time is right I'll deal with those things.

We all feel these things and we ALL go through periods or moments where those feelings are very strong and to be frank I don't buy that people do not. These feelings come to the surface in many ways and it is a way of dealing with core issues.

When I started my journey I used to spend a lot of time fixating on my body and past choices and that would make me angry, sad, upset, depressed. Now, I have moments, but they are far and few between. I have made a lot of progress and I have a lot more to make.

There are things that happened in my life that were beyond my control and those things shaped me into who I am. Some of those things were very negative and damaging. The person who was 340+ pounds versus me today, same person with a **** of a lot of growth.

Yeah I deal with these feelings and will continue to deal with them. I think...when I look at my body I see not only the present day, but the past, and though today I focus less on the past I still see it. These feelings are there, but they don't seem to consume me or I don't let that happen. I talk about it and work through it as much as I can.

Now, the future I will get some sort of surgery or surgeries and have already made peace with that. That's gonna happen lol, but not today.

[kaplods]

I think the feelings are natural, and common but it boils down to what you do with those feelings, how you interpret them, and how long you indulge in them.

Am I ever sad or angry with myself that I didn't take better control of my weight long before this?

Yes, of course.

But, have I ever truly hated myself? I don't think so; the hatred was always superficial, in the same way as the thoughts and feelings of "hatred" for my mother when I was a teenager. The "hatred" was very thin veneer - the love and respect for her (and myself) was under the surface.

I guess I just never fullly bought into to cultural message that being fat meant I was a bad person. I felt that the world was telling me that I was lazy, crazy, or stupid - but I was pretty sure (at least most of the time) that I wasn't any of those things. Feeling the need to prove it to the world was another story.

We talk to ourselves every day, and I think it's the messages we use when we get those feelings is what matters most. Do you berate and beat on yourself, or do you give yourself encouragement and a (metaphorical) hug and move foreward? Can you forgive yourself and move on?

If you can forgive yourself and move on, I don't see that as true hatred. Anger, disappointment, frustration, regret - yeah, all of those things and probably more, but hatred? No, I don't think so.

[NiteNicole]

Originally Posted by RomanceDiva

It'll get better with the more weight you lose...I'm not saying you won't have lose skin (I do but it's just a slight annoyance but Spanx fixes it!) but I know my belly flap is now a small pooch instead of the apron flap thingy. I am fascinated on how much it shrank

Well THAT is good to hear!

For now though try putting baby powder or corn starch in the areas you get yeast infections...yeast thrive on moist areas

I have a friend who swears by this Monistat gel powder stuff. It's a tube in a blue box near the tampons and things in the drug store. She says it totally took care of the chafing/rubbing/yeast issues.

[luvja]

Originally Posted by kaplods

Nope. I don't hate other people for making mistakes in their lives, and I'm not going to do that to myself, either.

Maybe that's because I've always been heavy, and have struggled most of my life to lose weight (I felt like most of the time, I was "trying" to lose weight). So what am I supposed to hate myself for? Because I did the best I could with what I had to work with?

I've finally (after decades of failing) found the program that is working for me, and it's really an anti-diet. It's nearly the opposite of what we're usually expected to do. Instead of working as hard as I could (at a level that wasn't really sustainable) in the short-term, and eventually falling off the wagon, I decided to only make changes that I could commit to doing for life. If I couldn't do it "for life," I wouldn't do it (no more 800 calorie per day diets).

I've done a lot of good things in and with my life, and I've made a lot of mistakes (mostly regarding my weight). The mistakes don't overshadow the wonderful stuff.

I couldn't agree more

[JulieJ08]

Originally Posted by kaplods

I really think that we're often taught self-loathing. It's the "correct" response ...

This is so true, and something I can't quite wrap my mind around yet. It's so pervasive you sometimes can't talk about it without puzzling people. It's something I see so much on the forums and it just kills me. I have a hard time responding to it.

[VickieLou]

My highest weight was 262 1/2 and now I am 221.4 LBS. I'm upset that I let myself get so heavy. I wasn't overweight in high school. But we need to Forgive Ourselves and Love Ourselves to began the healing process. I still have along way to go too.

[caliyah]

hey ladies

you should be proud of your accomplishments and learn to LOVE yourself. It's always hard for all of us but the more you love yourself the more you grow and the happier you will be. Think about it -- I love watching The Biggest Loser -- if the winning contestants on THe Biggest Loser ended up acting depressed/self-loathing once they won wouldn't that be a downer? There is no time in life to waste being immersed in self-hatred. There are people with much bigger problems in life. Be thankful for what you do have and go out there and be the best you can be. I know I sound hokey and all but I feel we all have our down days, our low points and all but I keep reminding myself I've come so far and I need to love myself. And by the way if you think about it ...your tummy problem could very well have happened to you in pregnancy regardless so don't think of it as a fault of you could have avoided because what happened, happened and was supposed to happen but now it's all about how you are going to keep moving on and being positive.

[Oasis]

Yes. Every single day.

[RubyGuggenheim]

No, I don't hate myself. I did, for awhile. We tend to hate things we don't understand.

Yes, I occasionally look in the mirror and get really upset that at the young age of 21 my stomach is covered in stretch marks and my breasts could never under any circumstances be considered "perky." However, for every one minute I spend in front of the mirror in a day I spend 12 hours fully clothed and around people, and with a good bra and flattering clothes, I feel like Aphrodite. It more than makes up for it.

[ICUwishing]

"You can't hate yourself thin." I never thought about it like that. Wow, does that explain a lot ... (wanders off to contemplate). I have noticed in my time here that the 3FC'ers with the most impressive successes, are definitely the ones who got the "head stuff" correct. What's the point in being thin and healthy if you will just be a miserable thin person? Healthy AND happy go together, and I am really coming to the conclusion that you have to make the happy happen first.

[kiramira]

Not really...I mean, when I was at my largest I hated the way I looked and I hated the fact that I was so out of control. But I used it as a motivator to really take a hard serious look at my life and to decide to change. NOW. Just as those on this forum have done and recently posted about their successes (cfmama, DChound are just 2 examples of success after serious and radical self-reflection, immediate action, and dedication). At my heaviest, I decided that if I changed my mindset I would change my life. And this is a radical thing to do -- to decide that as of THAT MOMENT I would eat only what was allowed on my eating program (Weight Watchers, which isn't terrible restrictive as you all know ). That I was indeed a normal-weighted person who had a bit extra padding that wasn't permanent and that I had the POWER to do something about it!!! And here I am today.

Will I ever regret the stretchmarks on my calves of all places? Probably, but it is what it is. I didn't kill anyone! I didn't go to jail! I just had extra padding. There is a consequence to that. But there is a consequence to regular suntanning, to bearing children, to the aging process in general...heck, I have scars from falling of my bike as a kid, and from the stained glass work that I do and from my gardening -- all of which is preventable but it is what it is because of the choices that I made. And it isn't like I parade around the streets nekked, waiting for strangers' assessments of my butt or my thighs!!! I may not be perfect, but meh...who is???

I also wonder about what we get out of self-loathing -- and is it really about weight? Or about not being 'perfect'. Lots of people suffer from self-loathing, and weight is an easy "target' for this. Perhaps it is a reflection of not being where we think we should be vs where we are, rather than carrying excess weight. There are lots of people who beat themselves up regularly for not having a better job, or for their unhappy family lives, or for whatever reason, but because they are normal-weighted it isn't weight-centric. And if you loathe yourself for your weight, and the weight is no longer the issue, what will you focus on instead? Losing weight won't make you any happier, and I've seen some who have lost LOTS of weight who STILL aren't any happier than they were when they were heavy...And the amount of ENERGY it takes to sustain such emotions! SO much better to expend that energy towards making behavioural changes and productive thought! I mean, isn't self-loathing and the energy that takes kind of distracting? But somehow EASIER to do than to actually change?

We all forget that life happens and we ALL bear the scars of it. Some of these scars were preventable, but we can't do much about that now. We just have to forgive ourselve, pick ourselves up, and carry on...



Kira