Good morning all. This is such a great board. Everyone here is so supportive and just "great" to each other. It's very nice and refreshing.
Mel - ahhh, 14 year olds. Been there, done that. It's a very complex situation. Let me hazard a guess that the 14 year old is a second child? I only say that because I had the same experience with my second daughter. It's called second child syndrome. From what I've read, the second child is forced to compete with the first child (who is perfect in every way ) and feels that he can't compete, so he just doesn't.
Of course, every parent knows their child best and you have to deal with your son in your own way. And every parent has different philosophies of how to raise their children. Let me give you my thoughts and advice and you take them for what you think they're worth.
Both my daughters are amazing, beautiful and very bright people. The first one excelled at school and still does. She was and is very motivated and driven to succeed. The second one was just as you describe your 14 year old. Never motivated in school, always plodding along doing just enough to get by. I had the same parent/teacher conferences where I was told she was not working to her potential. And I agreed. I KNEW that she was capable of straight A's. And I told her so. I assume that your son is the same - he's not failing, but he's just getting by. (If he's actually failing, that's a whole different story.)
At first, I did what you are doing -- threats, bribes, etc. I would sit with her every night to do homework, which usually wound up with her crying and me being very frustrated. Then in her last two years of high school I took a different tack. I pretty much told her that she would be what she made of herself. I basically gave her the I don't care what you do with your life, as long as you do something and you're happy doing it speech. I explained that finding a career that excited you and that you loved going to every day was the biggest measure of success - even if it was only mopping floors. Then I stopped pressuring her about grades, etc. I let her know that I believed she was capable of being the super star student, but that I wouldn't love her any less or be disappointed in her just because she wasn't as long as she was meeting her obligations and was happy.
Did my speech instantly turn her into a super student? No. She still worked below potential. And her first year of Junior College was the same. Then, at age 19, she quit college and went to beauty school. (I had to suffer through DH's rendition of "Beauty School Dropout" for at least a month after that as well as DH's silent disapproval of the way I was handling the situation.) Finally, she found something that she loved. She became excited and motivated. And she excels at what she's doing (my hair has never looked better). She just recently won second place in a show that the school put on.
She has big plans for her future and wants to eventually own her own shop. She's excited about life. If it had been up to me, would I have chosen beauty school for her? No, absolutely not. But I supported her in that decision and paid for her to go to the Paul Mitchell School - a much more expensive, but top of the line school. And now I am just thrilled for her because she absolutely loves what she is doing. She has found something she's good at and it has really given her self-confidence and optimism. Plus, DH has finally come around and is really proud of her for what she is now achieving.
The moral of the story here is that I couldn't do it for her. And I couldn't force her to do it for herself. She has to find something that excited her on her own and once she did, that's all she wrote. She was off and running. Don't expect your 14 year old to find his life's work at 14. It'll take him a bit longer than that. The best advice I can give is to just be understanding, talk with him and let him know that whatever he choses to do with his life is okay. Let him know that being rich, or a lawyer, doctor, etc., is not the measure of success - that finding something to do as your occupation that makes you spring out of bed every morning with great anticipation is true success. Then, stand behind him, let him discover what his life passion is and then help him achieve it as best you can.
And keep in mind that school just isn't that important for some people. I have a friend whose 14 year old son is doing basically the same thing as yours - working below potential. He's a very bright boy but was bringing home C's, D's and the occasional F. He just doesn't care for school. It was driving his father nuts. I talked with the boy one day and discovered that what truly interested him was mechanic work. He loves working on cars, motorcycles, etc., and wants to own his own shop one day. He just doesn't believe that school is necessary for what he wants to do in life. So I explained that owning his own shop required that he know something about business, math, etc. and that he needed to be "well rounded" to be successful at it. He's not an "A" student now by any means and never will be - even though he's capable of it. But, he has improved his grades from D's and F's to B's and C's. The secret is to just let them figure out what they want, and then explain what they need to do to get that.
Of course, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have to do his homework, etc., etc. You still have to be the parent and makes sure he meets his daily obligations. You just can't force him to excel at them. If it's not important to him to get all A's, he's just not going to do it, no matter how much pressure you put on him and no matter how much YOU want him to get A's. It's tough, but it's just the way life is. You have to let your children be what they are going to be and give them enough time to figure out what that is. I'm not by any means saying that you have to accept F's when you know he's capable of A's. But you can't force perfection either. You have to ease up some and let them do it their way.
Gosh, I've written a book. So, I'll shut up now and if the above is helpful, great. If it's not, just ignore.
About your son... My daughter is 15 and I go thru the same difficulties as you now. In my case I still push her - I think it is not the best decision, but sometimes it works. She did not want to go to communications group but I made her take exams. When she passed I basically MADE her agree and do it for one year. Probably it came from the fact that one of her electives last year was Drama and she wanted it and I let her have it and she ended up lot liking it at all? While it was my decision to go ahead with advanced science and she excelled in it? I am not sure, but right now we try to keep a balance like - you do it for me and I will do it for you. She kept doing soccer this year but did not like it but I made her finish what she started - after the season is over she will start dancing - she wants to do it. The same for her electives - she wanted to take Physics 11 in grade 10, and I suggested to wait till she is in grade 11 as her math will be up to date than. She agreed after a week of arguments to wait with physics and take Biiology 11 which does not require so much of math before... For this I had to let her stay spring break week home instead of going skiing with us - go figure - I always liked vacation getaways but obviously beeing on vacation with bunch of boring parents and siblings is not a cool thing...
I have to say - I see some progress even though it is slow. She still does not go to her full potential, but she became more reliable in what she is doing. I think a positive change started to happen AFTER she was caught shoplifting with her friend and talked to the police and afterwards explained that she feels alone in our family as her brother and sister are 9 and 12 years younger than her. After much of discussion we rescued a puppy (you probably had seen how many problems we had with the guy) but amazingly enough having dog to care for changed her attitude. She realized that we care, and she walks the dog every morning and twice in the evening, she bathes him, the only time she gets off is Saturdays when I take him in the morning for long walks. She became more reliable, we talk more, I think caring and understanding that she is needed by somebody helped a lot. She is very different now - and she improved in school from 68% to 79% which made me really happy. Probably what they talk about dog therapy is right? We have dog for 5 month now and I see light at the end of the tunnel...
I dont' want to say that you have to get the dog for your son. What I want to say that he might feel linely even though you are around. It is like a wall - I will show you something - in my case it was shoplifting, in your case it is school... It is to attract your attention - even though they do not need it but just in case???
I know it is hard, but probably knowing that we have the same problems will help?
Great stories Sasha and Elaine... So, now you have to sit through mine .....
DS, first born, is now in grade 11.... It's been his best year since grade 4... I say grade 4 because in grade 5 he had THE worse teacher EVER!!!! He leaned all that year, and I feel that this is when his enthusiasm stopped !! The woman was absent 90% of the time, they had different supply teachers weekly, sometimes daily!! This was also her last year she was retiring, thank GAWD!! ARGH!!! I was so frustrated, I complained to the principal but nothing was done... From that year till the middle of grade 10 he was not working to his potential either. He was still getting mid 60% to 70% grades but I knew he could do better....
Then suddenly, like Elaine's D, he found something that excited him. He wants to be a paramedic! For years we've forced him to take swimming lessons because he's not athletic at all, this was the only sport that we could get away with. This year, his last year, he's going for his Instructor/Lifeguard. He didn't really want to take it, but I explained to him that this was something similar to being a paramedic, helping people, saving people, he'd need his CPR, etc for paramedic anyways so why not take it....AND imagine how good it'll look on your resume, I said to him ... I'm not sure if this is what did it but he's doing awesome in school and his Instructor's course.... This year he's been on the honour roll on both report cards with an average of 80%!! I'm so damn proud !!
What I've noticed, working in a school and I've also been told from teachers, about boys, is that they take a very long time to mature, many do a turn around in grade 11, for my son his changes started mid grade 10 .....
For DD who is in grade 9 and 14, school has always been a bit of a struggle for her... She works hard, studies, does hours of homework.... With all the time she spends on homework you'd think she'd get 90%, but she gets high 60%, low 70%, which is good but she has to really work at it... She sometimes gets discouraged but she strong willed and keeps plugging away, which I am very proud of. I can't ask more from her because she gives it her all... She wants to be a CSI, I dunno about that one but we'll see, I don't discourage her from her dream....She also wants to be a rockstar !!
So, all this Mel to say that, eventhough the stories are different they are all basically the same.... We all do the best we can, it's just that at times we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel because there's a freakin' brick wall there we keep hitting our heads on !!! TTFN
Thanks all. I really appreciate it
Elaine, you're right on target; he is the second child, and following a "superstar" first who is quite a bit older. At one point earlier this year, he yelled at me that he couldn't get straight A's like my dd had because he just plain wasn't as smart. That really threw me for a loop, because on all the stardardized testing, he actually tests a smidgen higher than she did. So (this may have been a mistake), I hauled all the test scores out of the file cabinets and showed him that he was just as smart. He was pretty baffled looking and quiet for a few days. His tune changed from "I'm not that smart" to "nobody's perfect" That's what maddens me the most. Here's a kid who test in the 98-99th percentile in both math and verbal, who gets A's on all tests, and C's and D's on homework because of his minimalist approach, then ends up with C's because he couldn't care less. I know I need to be patient...but I'm not a very patient person, and the schools here are very competitive. He's working his way down the academic food chain and out of the high level classes. They go by grades, NOT potential.
Sandy, I had to laugh at the dog idea. That's how I ended up with my beloved Cleo who died last October. We got her when my dd was 11. She quickly became my dog and I loved her dearly. No more dogs
Thanks again for all being there One thing I'm learning is that you can't necessarily take all the credit or blame for your parenting. I was pretty smug about my parenting skills based on how my duaghter sailed through adolesence, high school, university, first job, and headed to law school. I think now maybe she accomplished it in spite of my parenting
Lousy food day....great leg workout! I'm about 75% on food days lately. I've GOT to improve that
Mel, I have no kids so have been loathe to comment, but I do have experience with middle school boys - we see a fair number of them in the library every afternoon. We are about 3 blocks from the MS and offer free internet! In addition, 4 of my staff have middle school boys (one has 2! ) It is amazing to see kids who have done well in elementary move to MS and just flounder. I don't know if it's hormones, or what. They certainly get a pack mentality, and I just dread when they start arriving in bunches. They get noisy, roughhouse, and frankly just want the attention of the girls, but have no clue what will work! I often - especially in the spring - have to kick them out of the building. They're not bad kids at all (after all, they are in the library) but their high spirits certainly can get disruptive. I also see however, how much they mature over the 3 years of MS. You got lots of good advice here, and all mine boils down to is "hang in there, he will grow up."
Mel: A bit late but I too have a son who I worry about. he is 12, and in the first year of secondary school. From a besically sunny little boy he seems to have changed, and he also is not motivated much by school because he thinks it mainly boring. Apart from that he seems tired and ill a lot of the time. But he is the oldest. I'm also trying to find out what is happening here, we began with a thorough medical check-up, even though one doctor says that he must be fine physically. he has to bike 4 miles to school and 4 miles back every day, and he does filed hockey 3 times a week for 1.5 hour at a time. that is something he enjoys a lot. Still, I believe it is the change from being a big fish in a small pond to being the smallest fry in the sea at the new school, or puberty, or me being at home because I have a butn out. Whatever.
I have no solutions for you, but what I tried to do is to get him to talk, to give grades to his day and give arguments why it was so worthless. I found out he rated them as bad normally, and that he tended to distorted thinkings. This seems to be common in puberty. because different parts of the brain grow at different rates, the pubescent child can have a wildly different worldview from yourself. My sons views surprised me, and I try to keep in topuch with thim as it is the only thing that I can think of for me to do.
By the way, he is the oldest. my daughter showed the exact same stuff as elaine described: Shge is the 2nd, and after some time with every day of the week a fdifferent substiture teacher, she basically gave up and did nothing. It took me al ot of effort to straighten that out.
Thanks for all the stories guys: Just keepto the mottor: Even with kids in puberty... just keep hanging in there !!!
I enjoyed everyone's stories about their teens. I have two boys - they're very young now, but sometimes I worry about what I'm in for when they both hit teenagedom!!
Like many of you, I'm having a so-so week. My exercise is great, but I've been engaging in a lot of unplanned nibbling (no bingeing and crossing my fingers that continues). I'm two pounds up because of AF and that fact is robbing me of my motivation to be totally strict. My plan is to cut the carbs today and tomorrow so I can get rid of my cravings. That will also put an end to the nibbling since it's crunchy and sweet carbs that I'm reaching for.
This weekend is a road trip - taking the boys to see Monsters, Inc. on ice and the Children's Museum. It will be a huge challenge for me foodwise, but I intend to stay on plan.
Hang in there everyone! We're strong and we can do this!
Have a great day and stay away from those green cookies, bagels and shakes!
Mel - Yep. I knew it. The dreaded Second Child Syndrome. It's very common. The most important thing is not to let it get you down or let it affect your relationship with your son. If you're having yelling matches (like my nightly crying sessions with DD-2), then you may be pushing too hard. Step back, BREATHE DEEPLY, and try to look at the whole situation with an unemotional eye. Yes, my DD-2 was also originally in gifted programs in the early grades and then pushed back down the line. At first, it was hard for me to accept. Then I realized it was hard for me to accept because it hurt my pride. How dare I be "embarrassed" because my child wasn't in the gifted programs. It didn't make her any less special of a person. I quickly got over that - I was not going to harm my child's psyche because of what I thought my friends may be thinking. You may be concerned that it will hurt your son's chances of getting into college. Don't be. It will only affect his chances of getting into the "best" or "Ivy League" colleges. So what. It that's not his dream, don't force it on him. If college is what he wants, he'll get in.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think your anxiety stems from worry about his future - but he'll be fine. He really will. He's got a great mother, who is a great role model and who will be there to guide him, protect him and teach him how to be a great adult.
Don't get at him, just encourage him to do better. If you feel the need to provide some discipline to get him more focused on his studies, do it firmly and calmly. Try to keep the emotion out of it - even if he tries to inject emotion, anger, etc. into the conversation. Having raised two teenage daughters, I know how difficult that can be.
As far as the homework thing, what I did with DD-2 was to check her homework every night right after dinner - even in high school. First, to make sure she had done it and second, to make sure she had done it correctly. If it was wrong, she had to re-do it. Yes, I was tired when I got home. And no, I didn't really WANT to spend 1/2 hour or so checking homework. But I did. Perhaps you could establish a routine similar to that?
Apart from problems with our teens and solutions to those problems - how is everybody goind thru the week? I am on track exercise wise but for whatever reason gained weight this week??? I could not beleive it - but my jeans became tight just above my knees??? Darn, is it because I biked 32 km on Monday? Go figure - today I use different pants and I am very frustrated.
On the other nice note - I am going on vacation skiing (downhill). Our local mountains did not have snow this season (so bye-bye my 300$ for discounted ski passes) - so head on to Interior where there is 178cm of snow now Kids are excited - my almost 4 y.o daughter can not wait when she will be able to ski "all by herself" - last year she skied "between Daddy's legs". I am very excited and truly can not wait anymore - one more day... So I will not be on the board next week but will report in a week! Have a nice week fellow maintainers!
Hi Gang:
Seems everyone has been having an interesting week. I had a great vacation and truly enjoyed every minute. I enjoyed treats with no guilt but in moderation which resulted in a happy balance.
Good to be back, need to once again refocus but this is a lifetime journey so thats part of the plan.
To answer your question Sandy I am having a very nice week ... The kids are off this week it's been sunny all week and melting snow is NICE to see, eventhough like Pat said it's MUDDY... But I'm loving it... I remember when the kids were small and skiing at 3 years old, it's just oh so cute... One year we decided to give them lessons, they were about 4 and 6, at the time, and we wanted a break from hanging on to them, so we got them lessons for a few hours... There were 2 bonuses. WE got to ski ALONE and enjoy ourselves, the second bonus was the best though, after their lesson they were skiing ALONE too... I guess the instructor gave them the confidence they needed and/or they wanted to show off, but they were on their own after that ... THAT was a great day... I love to see those little peanuts on the hills ski better than most adults .... Have fun on your trip Sandy...
Reg -- Welcome back nice and relaxed from you vacation...
This morning I made it to the gym with DS and did legs for the second time this week, it felt really good ... Afterwards we came home showered and went off to the mall for lunch... After lunch we dressed the boy for the upcoming wedding of my nephew in August... He will be sooooo handsome !!! I could'nt believe how good he looked all cleaned up in fitted clothes instead of the baggy stuff we're so used to seeing him wear ... Cost a freakin' arm and leg for a blazer, shirt, tie, dress pants, socks ... He also needs shoes, maybe I can paint his runners black ... Now I'm gonna have to go to WalMart for a dress for myself .... NOT!!!
Karynlee, Sandy... My scales also won't budge AND I believe my jeans are tighter around the leg this week. Sigh. But I hope this is must a fluke, retaining water or whatever. Ecercisewise I am Ok, but foodwise is still not right.
However, you can only do your best and as i've said before: Just showing up, hanging in here at least keeps you out of trouble & prevents you from slipping up altogether.
Sandy... have a great week skiing ! Does downhill ski count as cardio ? Have fun & enjoy yourself!
My own excercise: did LBW, 15 mins row, 15 mins jog, 15 mins bike today.
I've enjoyed reading about all of your teenagers. My son is only 6, so I have a few more years. I'm struggling right now with his school, trying to decide if I should send him to private, I think so, but still wavering. Our town is VERY small and the school is too. It just doesn't have a lot to offer and ds is the type of kid who is very imaginative & creative and not so athletic. He's not fitting in and it's just breaking my heart to pieces, keeping me awake at night.
Exercise has been great, per usual. Food started off so well this week. Yesterday was OK, but not great. A nibble here and there of stupid stuff I didn't even want. I'm trying to keep it lower carb, no white stuff, it's the only way I've found that works to consistently ward off cravings.
There is no school today due to teacher's workshop, so we're having friends over and just hanging out. Speaking of ds, he just woke up. Must run!
To Mel and all you others struggling through the teenaged years:
I have two DD, now 24 and 26 and remember well the struggles through those high school years. My oldest was identified as gifted and was in gifted classes through several years of public school before we moved to a small town where none were offered. She was put back into the main stream classes at that point and managed excellent marks but with almost no effort on her part. My youngest was very bright but had to work very, very hard to match her sister's marks and sometimes got pretty discouraged, following in her older sister's footsteps. I struggled and argued and did my best to try and encourage them both in many of the ways that you all have described. I remember many days and nights getting depressed about one or the other or both and crying or getting angry with their behavior over not only school but everything else that teenagers seem to get into. They both made me crazy at times.
Now, ten years later, they are both wonderful women out on their own, making me so very proud of them. So my advice to you all is to keep it all in perspective. My mantra all those years ago should have been "They will grow up despite or because of all this, move out and do well and I will miss them."!
I've been doing quite well exercise-wise, after having a week off due to a miserable case of the flu. I think the break actually did more good than harm because I find myself working my body with more enthusiasm than I've felt in a long time. Food-wise, I've still been struggling to find a happy medium. After reaching my goal last fall, I've continued to lose more than I've gained and am currently trying to put back a couple of pounds that I lost while I was sick. Having said that, I'm trying to do it while still eating 'clean' although I'm feeling the temptation of old habits calling to me. So far, I've managed to mostly ignore them. I expect, given time, my body will adjust to my new weight and stop this yo-yo-ing up but mostly down. It does seem to get a little easier with time and I am learning, very slowly, how to even things out a little. At least I'm not thinking about food and exercise every waking moment these days now that this is starting to become part of my life.
Why am I the only one on this board who doesn't have the problem of losing too much weight???? Good grief! (maybe because I eat all the time!)
Today was a light day client-wise at the gym. I met with woman who has no weight to lose, but wants to put on some muscle. She's 101 pounds at 5'1" and eats maybe twice a day, rarely any protein, usually junk food on the run. Somehow she's reached the age of 45 with 4 kids with NO knowlegdge of nutrition whatsoever Trying to teach thin people to eat more and healthier, is harder than trying to convince overweight people to eat less
My food was again dreadful yesterday. I managed a good session of back and cardio this morning, and have 3 clean meals so far, so I'm on a roll for the day. If I can just get a few days going, I'm good. My rib still hurts so much, it's way too easy to start feeling sorry for myself.
The first crocuses (crocii??) are out today! Maybe there will be and end to this winter
This is such a great board. Everyone here is so supportive and just "great" to each other. It's very nice and refreshing. 
) and feels that he can't compete, so he just doesn't. 
So, I'll shut up now and if the above is helpful, great. If it's not, just ignore. 
all that year, and I feel that this is when his enthusiasm stopped !! The woman was absent 90% of the time, they had different supply teachers weekly, sometimes daily!! This was also her last year she was retiring, thank GAWD!! ARGH!!! I was so frustrated, I complained to the principal but nothing was done... From that year till the middle of grade 10 he was not working to his potential either. He was still getting mid 60% to 70% grades but I knew he could do better....
!!
One thing I'm learning is that you can't necessarily take all the credit or blame for your parenting. I was pretty smug about my parenting skills based on how my duaghter sailed through adolesence, high school, university, first job, and headed to law school. I think now maybe she accomplished it in spite of my parenting 
) It is amazing to see kids who have done well in elementary move to MS and just flounder. I don't know if it's hormones, or what. They certainly get a pack mentality, and I just dread when they start arriving in bunches. They get noisy, roughhouse, and frankly just want the attention of the girls, but have no clue what will work! 
at him, just encourage him to do better. If you feel the need to provide some discipline to get him more focused on his studies, do it firmly and calmly. Try to keep the emotion out of it - even if he tries to inject emotion, anger, etc. into the conversation. Having raised two teenage daughters, I know how difficult that can be. 
... The kids are off this week it's been sunny all week and melting snow is NICE to see, eventhough like Pat said it's MUDDY... But I'm loving it... I remember when the kids were small and skiing at 3 years old, it's just oh so cute... One year we decided to give them lessons, they were about 4 and 6, at the time, and we wanted a break from hanging on to them, so we got them lessons for a few hours... There were 2 bonuses. WE got to ski ALONE and enjoy ourselves, the second bonus was the best though, after their lesson they were skiing ALONE too... I guess the instructor gave them the confidence they needed and/or they wanted to show off, but they were on their own after that ... THAT was a great day... I love to see those little peanuts on the hills ski better than most adults 
... Afterwards we came home showered and went off to the mall for lunch... After lunch we dressed the boy for the upcoming wedding of my nephew in August... He will be sooooo handsome !!! I could'nt believe how good he looked all cleaned up in fitted clothes instead of the baggy stuff we're so used to seeing him wear ... Cost a freakin' arm and leg for a blazer, shirt, tie, dress pants, socks 
... He also needs shoes, maybe I can paint his runners black 
... Now I'm gonna have to go to WalMart for a dress for myself 
Maybe there will be and end to this winter 