Karens thread "What would you do?" prompted me to start this thread.

A few weeks ago I was at the beach with a very good friend, one who's lost 130 pounds (still has about 50 to go), and her good friend. I know the friends friend and she's known me for years, meaning while I was still heavy. This particular woman is about 25 - 30 lbs overweight. Anyway, we park the cars, get to the beach, get settled and the three of us each immediately go take out a snack.

The friend who's lost 130 pounds takes out a container of grape tomatoes, I take out - shocking - a fat free yogurt, partially frozen with some fiber one, the other woman takes out a package of yodels. Hmmm. We get to talking. The yodel person right away says, wow, what great snacks we're having. She then goes onto complain that she just can't lose weight. She eats healthy breakfasts, lunches and dinners. She says that even though she eats veggies and protein for her meals, she is still hungry BETWEEN those meals. She seems upset by this. As if there's something wrong with her for getting hungry between meals.

So I said - so then snack. I surely do. But I told her that she has to rethink what a snack is. It's not pretzels and chocolate and cakes and muffins. I then proceed to give her some healthy ideas, actually both of us do. I could see the wheels spinning in her head. It was definitely a light bulb moment for her.

It's okay to snack!!! Snacking is good!! Snacking CAN (& should) be part of a healthy diet. But make the snacks healthy ones.

I thought it was interesting. This is a highly intelligent woman, in the medical field no less, but it never dawned on her to #1 not feel guilty and if there's something wrong with her for being hungry in between meals, and #2 to snack freely, but make them lower calorie, satiating, healtful ones.

It's kind of sad what is out there on the market and touted as snack foods. All that processed garbage. If that processed garbage were not around (dare to dream), people would be forced to turn to wholesome foods for snacking. But the industry has made it so easy to snack on so called convenience foods, that in the end are not so convenient at all. What a shame.

This is an issue I've done some thinking about, too, Robin, and my own lightbulb came on when I came to a simple realization:

A snack does not have to be a special treat.

Yes, my mind had somehow blurred snacks/special treats. Desserts are supposed to be special treats, and special means rare & unusual, not routine. They're not supposed to happen several times a day. They're supposed to be maybe once a day, or even once a week. I'd been adding too many special treats to my day.

When I realized that snacks ought to be treated more like fuel, like topping off a gas tank because my energy was low, and less like several special treats/desserts a day, that really helped me eat more sensibly.

I understand about feeling like something's wrong because you want to eat between the three major meals of the day. For years, I read advice in more than one place that you shouldn't "snack between meals." I read this everywhere, until the "many very small meals" and "grazing" ideas started to be promulgated in the media about weight control & health.

I have felt guilty in the past about snacking as well. I remember posters in school saying "Don't snack between meals!" with a picture of junk food enclosed in a 'no' circle.

Now I realize that it is a critical part of my food plan, and nothing to feel guilty about as long as I keep it smart. The days I don't snack I overeat at lunch or dinner. The days I 'junk' snack I overeat at lunch or dinner. The days I have a practical breakfast and lunch, nice healthy snacks during the day and the right amount of water I am able to eat a nice dinner without falling apart. I then can eat a smart, healthy evening snack or small dessert type thing without being over the top.

Saef- as usual, very insightful. I too had blurred this distinction. I normally do not like snacking because I like larger dinners (400-600 cal). If I get hungry between meals, almost always in the afternoon, like yesterday, 20 raw green beans and 4 roasted pecan halves was it, plus sparkling water. Not even I could confuse this with anything more than it was- fuel to the next meal.

RR- I wish I could have been under your umbrella asking you questions but then you wouldn't have had any rest enjoying the beach:-)

Saef, I had the same issue. When I was a kid, a "snack" was always some sort of dessert. If it wasn't a dessert/junk food, it wasn't a "snack," it was just "food."

My snacks consist of:
- fresh fruit
- (tiny) portion of nuts
- a piece of meat (ie chicken thigh with no skin)

That's it....

My personal belief- if a person 1000 years ago recognized it as food, it's food. 100 cal snack packs of cookies are not food for me - chips are not food - etc... a treat once in a while yes, but not food fit for snacks!

I try to have some protein in a snack: cottage cheese, greek yogurt, nuts, pb, or cheese. Occasionally I'll just eat a small piece of turkey or chicken. If I eat just carbs or even fruit, it doesn't take the hunger away long... Small serving of carbs or fruit + protein = filling snack.

For me it was especially hard to transition into a phase where I could eat and feel safely in control. Therefore, the fewer number of times a day I had to tackle the challenge of eating, the easier the task seemed.

Every bite felt like it might trigger a binge.

Now I cant even distinctly say I eat meals or snacks. I just eat as often as my day's activities requires to stay properly fueled.

Its crazy really. I used to only eat food based on what tasted good. I was never ever hungry and usually uncomfortably full. Id be eating lunch and thinking about what I would eat for dinner. Now I primarily think of food as what will keep me feeling good - fueled, balanced, healthy skin, able to finish a demanding workiout. I try to get food that meets those goals and tastes good, but will happily eat something a little less yummy to meet the goal. It doesnt even feel like a sacrifice, it is just what I do to make my life the one I love.

Exactly right. I find myself using this approach in many situations. It comes down to priorities doesn't it?

Yesterday, I was at Sea world, on cold meds, trotting all over the park with high humidity with my children, grand child, older kids, SIL. I was noticing how many overweight people/obese there are and how hard it was on them. A year ago, that was me and I did not even know how hard carrying 60# extra was!

So I will happily eat my string cheese, raw green beans, 100 cal package of nuts for lunch w/ dt coke at the park because it makes my life so much richer. I do not feel deprived or whiney. On the contrary I am grateful to know what I need to do for me to be the best me.

xty. I'm so glad you popped on over. Stick around!

You know this thread and all your responses has opened up my eyes to something I never even realized. I've always said that I am not one of those who will ever be able to look at food simply as fuel. But I guess based on my food choices, it may seem that way. I absolutely don't view a snack as something sugar-y. That's long gone, history. I've also said that I had to re-think what a treat is. And when I did that, I obviously got rid of the *junk*.

When I first started my journey 2 of my favorite snacks was a 60 calorie sugar free jello and a 60 calorie sugar free ice cream bar. But a few months in, I stopped eating them and added in more veggies and such as my snacks.

Because my snacks must give me filling power. They have to stave off cravings and keep my hunger at bay. So...... I guess what I really am looking for is indeed something to fuel me. How do you like that? I do eat food for fuel - but and here's the big thing - I must enjoy it as well. It really is a matter of rethinking what a treat is.

Or basically exactly what xty said...

And Karen, raw string beans is one of my favorite snacks. Very transportable, can be eaten anywhere.

It's crazy. Just crazy. Could you imagine trying to sell the American public string beans as a good to go snack. Or how about 100 calorie packs? What advertising company would even take that on?

This group of Maintainers is amazing by the way. Such insight, such knowledge, such similarities.

I've been the Yodel friend's shoes. I am also an intelligent person with a reasonably good grasp on cause and effect. Also, I'm an A-student in a biological science major in college. I've taken the biology courses, nutrition courses, organic and biochemistry, etc.

Before I got *serious* about losing weight, I would eat "healthy food" and wonder why I wasn't losing weight. I remember reading a tip in some chick magazine about making healthier versions of foods like pizza to help lose weight. It was about 9 at night and I had eaten more than enough that day, I'm sure. Well I decided I wanted to lose weight, so I went to the store, bought a whole wheat pita, turkey pepperoni, and low fat cheese and made my own "healthy" pizza and ate it at 10 at night. I went to bed later feeling accomplished because I had eaten healthy food and I was on my way to losing weight. Or I'd go for a run and then reward myself with a Big Mac (again, usually an extra meal for the day) and still feel satisfied that I was working hard to lose weight. How could I be so blatantly ignorant when I knew better?

That being said, I truly don't think snacking is for everyone. I don't think the 6 minimeal model is the best plan for everyone. I tried hard to force it on myself and it just didn't work. Sure, I was hungry between meals (my mini 200-300cal meals) and I was thrilled that I'd get to eat every few hours. But I ended up being so food obsessed, waiting and hyperfocusing on when my next snack was. And after that little snack, I was never completely satisfied, I always wanted more. But then I had the next little snack to hyperfocus on. Sometimes I couldn't stand the anxiety of waiting anymore and I'd have an extra little snack. Then another one. Before dinner, I'd snuck so many extra little snacks in that I'd used my daily calories and I'd have to either be hungry all evening or go over my limit.

Instead, I MUCH prefer LARGE meals at regular times and no snacking. My brain ALWAYS tells me I'm hungry, so I always want to snack. Even if I plan a healthy snack, I'll still be hungry for another one. It's pointless, lol. But I've learned that I am much more satisfied - physically and mentally - when I know that I have a big meal coming up and I'll have a full belly.

mkendrick, let me start off by saying, I have been aware for a long time that you are indeed an intelligent person. You don't have to read too many of your posts to realize that. Your intelligence really comes through.

I am also aware that there are MANY intelligent people who are overweight. I guess I pointed it out with this particular woman, because she seems to have really pinpointed her *issue*. But than again, maybe she hadn't seen it till that day at the beach - or didn't care to see it. I don't know.

Maybe for intelligent woman and weight it is similar to men and sex... there brains seem to stop functioning... whatever.

I also know that snacking isn't for everyone. We've got someone at the 100 lb club who is similar to you, I think it's ubergirl, my apologies if it's not. She says she needs to think about food as little times as possible through out the day. I do get that..

But I did think for this particular woman, the lower calorie snacking may be her answer.

I'm glad you've given your perspective, it's a good one.

mkendrick, I have been right there in denial land with you. An A student, went to a very competitive college, and majored in computer science. And yet, when it came to food and weight, I was SO STUPID. I would think I was just heavy because that was my body type. Or the jeans in the store didn't fit because they just weren't built for people with curvy hips. No, idiot, it was because I was stuffing my face with junk food all day and never exercising.

How is it that we can be so ignorant when it comes to certain issues? I can make all sorts of excuses about how I was never actually taught about nutrition, but it's not particularly complicated. If I can figure out how to set the blinking clock on my VCR (ha, DVD player nowadays), then I could have figured out how to eat healthy and that my food choices were making me fat. What took me so long?

Apple with 1 oz cheese for me, baby. Good cheese, like smoked gouda. Food must be considered fuel, but I see no reason why I cannot like it. Indeed, if I don't like it there is more likely to be resistance or lapses. Best of all possible scenarios is to feel l am the luckiest girl in the world to be able to satiate my hunger with this delectable snack.

I'm one of those intelligent fat people (have a phd, and although you don't have to be intelligent to have a phd it does help). Being intelligent doesn't mean you aren't ignorant or that you're well equipped to go rounds with chemistry, habit, history, society, and mental/emotional state all at once - which you do for weight loss and maintenance (hopefully to a lesser degree).

The question of snacks and meals is a big one for me right now; I just had a medical issue that requires me to rethink (again) how I eat. Minimeals are supposed to be the way to go after gall bladder removal, but I think I'll have a hard time with that; family dinner is usually tasty and one of my favorite times of day as long as we don't eat too late. This whole business has thrown me out of my comfort zone.

I begin to ramble. Anyway, good thread.

rockinrobin, thanks!

and ya know, its not that I view food *only* as fuel. just primarily. first, as you said it is the priority!

however, i am a complete foodie. the highlight of my year in food thus far was eating at a two michelin star restaurant in nyc (la bernadin). it was a multicourse lunch and i treasured each course. including dessert (and the amuse bouche dessert...a baby pre-dessert if you will).

i even eat out most meals typically, but as i think saef said about all snacks not being indulgences...all times eating out isnt an indulgence either.