Hi Pals and Welcome, 33zen-
I looked up Geneen Roth and read an interview with her. Like everything else I've read that is IE oriented, one of the primary concepts is to stop the negative self-talk. I guess that kind of negative self-talk may work for some people but I look at myself and ask, "what good has it done for me?" and the answer is ZERO. It doesn't motivate me when others criticise me and it doesn't motivate me when I criticise myself. So, Jerie -no more of that trash talk!;)
On that note, 33, I don't think there is any need to be critical of yourself for counting calories. I know you want to stop being obsessive about it, but it can't be helpful to beat yourself for it. I don't think it's a bad thing; although it is not a necessary part of IE sometimes it's helpful, certainly not harmful to know that nutritional info.
But here I am not practicing what I preach after telling myself what a dolt I am for forgetting to pay my car insurance bill. Which will probably not be motivating in any way for future bills but I hit myself with the imaginary frying pan nevertheless.:(
jo

Hi everyone! Good to see all the posts. Here is a little info from a newsletter I get called Beyond Chocolate.

Don't count on it: why calorie counting doesn't work
by Surinder Phull, Head Nutritionist at Eatwell.co.uk

One of my aims as a nutritional therapist is to encourage clients to shift their focus away from weight loss and start to concentrate on good health and enjoyment of food. Yet I am often met with an enormous obstacle; obsession with 'The Calorie'.

When I suggest that a veteran dieter might try butter, Brazil nuts, olive oil, or cashew nut butter (absolutely delicious if you have never tried it!) or even avocados I can almost see the red alert signals flashing on their in-built calorie counter. I try and assure the sceptics that (although calorific) these foods may actually improve metabolism and help long term weight management but all too often the calorie mentality kicks in. Too many calories are bad. Low calorie is good. Simple.

The problem is that our bodies are not simple. The way we deal with foods is complex and calories are just a crude indication of the effect food may have. Granted, if you were to severely restrict your calorie intake you would probably lose weight but that is tantamount to starvation and you don't need to do any clever calorific sums to work that out. Other than that calorie counting is essentially flawed and here are a few reasons why:

A calorie is a unit of heat. Calorie content of food is calculated by the heat it generates in a device called a calorimeter. Well there's the obvious flaw. Our bodies are not calorimeters. The way we digest food particular foods varies enormously between individuals and depends on the quality and type of food we eat not just its calorie content.

The second flaw is that not every unit of food we eat is used for energy. For example certain foods used for repair of muscles, building hair nails or skin. Certain fats in particular are needed to produce hormones that regulate our blood sugar and metabolism and help maintain a regular weight. How much an individual needs to meet these requirements is impossible to measure in numbers.

So when I encourage individuals to focus on their needs, their bodies are supplied with the foods that make them healthier, happier and (if they need to) gradually lose weight. Science aside, experience has shown that me this really works. So if you are a serial calorie counter it is time to stop punishing your body with deprivation and gruelling mental arithmetic and start nourishing your body with the delicious foods it is crying out for.

Hi group!

I was wondering how much everybody has lost so far with the intuitive eating. I don't want to make weight loss my primary goal (having no more binges is way better!) but I'm still interested in losing weight (I need to lose a 100 pounds!). I think it would be encouraging to hear your stories!

Spinymouse: I'm glad you checked out this author and seemed to like it! :)

Have a good night!

thanks for the welcome!
 

Thanks for welcoming me and sharing the articles/info. I went to the store today and picked up some healthy food: Special K, Cheerios, Total Raisin Bran, soy milk, veggie burgers, and "double the fiber" whole wheat bread. With the addition of some veggies, fruit, and the rice and tofu that I already had, I'd say I'm ready! If it's possible, I think I fall somewhere between Intuitive Eating and Calorie Counting. I know that counting calories may defeat the purpose of IE, but I have to find a balance and I think this will work. Besides, my calorie counting is just a mental note anyway. So, in preparing for my race, I'll probably be eating cereal and fruit for breakfast, a veggie burger/veggies for lunch, and stirfry (tofu, rice, veggies) for dinner, or another veggie burger. I'm cutting coffee/alcohol for the next 4 weeks (getting serious here, however, the alcohol is much less of a problem than the caffeine since I rarely drink alcohol). I'm just feeling extremely motivated today so hopefully it will pay off by the time the race gets here. I know there are only a couple of "regulars" posting from what I can tell, but I definitely wouldn't mind stopping in frequently.

By the way, I didn't really tell you much about myself, so I'll cover the basics so you can get to know me if you want! 24 y/o female, recently moved from Columbus, OH, to Phoenix, AZ, where I'm stationed in the Air Force, working as an information manager (dealing with computer issues, network/email problems, troubleshooting). I enjoy certain things about Phoenix, but it's HOT here. I don't miss the snow by any means, but I guess I wouldn't mind a happy medium. I'll be here 3 years for work, but then I'm getting the **** out. Anyone ever been to Seattle? I've heard it's great. Anyway, I'm a self-diagnosed compulsive-eater. I'm never very consistent and it hits me at random times. Lately, however, it hit me because I'm unhappy with my current job situation (I pretty much hate the military life). It's not for me, as I'm too outspoken. Getting out is too much work so I'm just counting down the months, then years (reserves). I am in a new relationship with an amazing woman who makes me very happy. That makes being owned by the government less painful. Of course, that must remain a secret, too. Apparently, I can go to the big sandbox and risk my life over bull$h#!, BUT I can't love someone for her heart and mind. Okay, I'm rambling but it IS important because it's a reason I'm depressed and has caused some of my emotional eating problems as of late. I ENJOY being me and accepted for who I am, not what I'm expected to be. MAYBE, just maybe they'll come around. I stated in a previous post that I'm weighing in lately at about 160. My highest was about 175 @ 5'5". My goal is 140 and I'll see where that takes me. I'm not focused on number weight so much as how I feel/look, how well I fit into my clothes, and improving my running/run times. My MAIN goal is to feel better physically and just to feel better about myself.

Thanks for listening. I'd love to know more about all of you.

~33

Meg, I've lost about 10lb and kept it off this year. Not great but better than nothing. Had a bad night last night with company over late. I made a danish that I had purchased form a school fundraiser and it was delicious. It's gone today, thank the Lord. Hope today goes better. It is so hot and I haven't been feeling too well since returning from AK. Not enough sleep lately. Summer is always so busy. On a better note, the garden is doing good and the tomatoes should be red soon. Love those tomatoes.

Hi Carol! I hope you'll be feeling better!

Thanks for answering and congratulations on your weight loss! I'm always telling myself: next year, your weight will be higher or lower, which one will it be?

It's also harder for me when I eat out with friends...I'm having fun, I'm laughing and I'm not necessarily having my objectif in mind. It's a work in progress! :)

Hi Meg. Yesterday was much better. I think I was just over tired from vacation. ha! The eating went well yesterday, too, except I was hungry right before bed and had a little snack. I like IE because you don't always have to think all the time about what you eat. That's the way it was when I was younger and thin....115lb and 5 ft 4 in. I don't think I'll ever see that weight again. I'd be really happy with a 30lb loss. I really spent some time in the garden last night. Even though someone else is caring for things when you're gone they just don't do it like you would. I told my son to pick the snow peas but he was too busy so now they're over done. No more going away for 2 weeks in the summer!!!

Hi all. Sorry to be mia for so long. Welcome Meg and 33. 33 - are you stationed at Luke?? What - you don't just LOVE arizona summers? :) The next couple of months will be even worse - monsoon adds the dreaded humidity to the already stiffling heat. You're in for a treat. :eek:

Since I have been doing the body work in the book I mentioned before (when women stop hating their bodies) I've been doing a lot better with the eating. (And I have almost completely stopped the negative self-talk Jo) But doing a lot more crying. :) It's amazing that since I've stopped tranquilizing myself with food, so much emotional stuff has been coming up. I'm trying to let myself get thru it, think about it, write about it, etc. and hopefully I will have less reasons to numb myself with food.

Meg - I have no idea about weight loss. I am so committed to not EVER dieting again that I got rid of the scales. I am, however, noticing a little difference in my clothes - not quite so tight.

I love Geneen Roth's books too. I especially liked "when food is love". I am a diabetic, so I can't eat EVERYTHING I want, and she dealt with that a lot in that book. I still have to count carbs, to calculate insulin, but I don't look at fat grams or calories when I'm looking at carbs & fiber. Talk about tunnel vision. :lol:

Carol - I'll bet you're glad to be home. I always think it's nice to go away, but just as nice to get home. Hope you get to feeling better soon. It may just be climate change and needing to catch up on sleep (those 20 hour days, you know).

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Luke. Yeah. There's not much to do around here, so I find myself driving to Phx a lot. It's not THAT far of a drive, I guess. It's HOT here. I'm not used to it, but I'll take it over snow/cold anyday.

So, it took a couple days to get into the swing of it, but I think I'm getting a feel for what Intuitive Eating is all about. I found the key was to get and KEEP certain trigger foods out of the kitchen. Also, I know that I don't have to eat "perfectly" ALL the time. It's the majority that counts.

How long did it take everyone to get it down?

I'm SO glad the weekend's here. I'm nervous about my training run tomorrow--8 miles! I might be sore, but I think I'll be fine. For me, 7-8 miles is when I really start to feel the pain. Anyway, I'll probably be gone the whole weekend but I'm sure I'll be complaining when I return.

Hope everyone's doing well. Not many people here, eh? Enjoy the weekend.

~33

33 - I think just about everyone here has their own personal view of what IE is for them. For me, I follow the "Overcoming Overeating" program which legalizes all food (no "good" or "bad" just food), learning to love your body no matter what size it is, paying attention to eating when hungry and stopping when satisfied, and vowing never to diet again. I have been trying to get that done for more than 15yrs, but I never got to the point where I was really serious about actually doing all that stuff until this year. I am in my 60's and have been on (and off) diets since I was 9 years old. I've lost hundreds of pounds and always put them back on. I've finally had enough of being obsessed with food. I'm serious about it and I think that's why it's working for me now. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

I hear you on the snow/cold thing. I'd rather have 3 mos of 110 plus temps than even 1 snowflake. That's why I live here. You need to get over to the east valley - esp. tempe. That's where it all happens. (can you tell that's where I live??) Good luck on your run.

I had a lot of cleaning to do yesterday because of company coming. I think I worked until about 9:30pm. My DH wanted to go out to eat but we have to drive 30min to get to most eatieries. So he said he'd make me a salad and he also made frozen strawberry slushes. Wow! It tasted so good. Just proves that when you don't have to make it things do taste so good.

Hi IE Pals -
Thanks for sharing your info, 33 - I like to read about people, especially their ideas and opinions. So I appreciate outspokenness!
And yes it seems that we are a small group. Maybe most people like to be told what to do rather than rely on their own inner guidance. I don't like being told what to do so those prescribed diet plans can go to Detroit. (almost as bad as the other place but not yet a cuss word.) Apologies to Detroiters!
For me it's about getting back to how I was as a child when I would rather have done about anything else than eat (well part of that was my mother's cooking.) But I remember I wanted to play, not eat. I got a lot of nutrition from milk and from fresh juices and I wanted to spend as little time as possible at the kitchen table so I could run off and play. I've been trying to figure out when that changed. Maybe I need to find more ways to play. Ways that don't include a lot of calories (beer and wine are always involved in my current recreational activities!) Definitely I need to MOVE more.
Hey has anyone else noticed anything different on the 3fc board as far as going to the posts - it all looks different and takes about 10x longer all of a sudden. I didn't change anything on my computer. Weird.
Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Jo, On Sat. it took me a few hr. just to log in. Other sites were working so I know it wasn't my computer. I got a long newsletter and thought I'd post it to see what you all think. It might be a little far out.

PAINT-BY-NUMBER OR MASTERPIECE: THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
RESTRICTIVE AND HEALTHY EATING

By Michelle May, M.D.

There is a harmful meme* (like an idea gene) that has
become so widespread, so ubiquitous, that it is accepted as
normal. It has subtly integrated itself into our beliefs,
our thoughts, our language, our behavior and our reality.
It's so pervasive that it has become "conventional wisdom"
and almost no one questions it.

This meme is so insidious that most people who have it
don't even realize it. Even the people responsible for
spreading it don't recognize its potential for long term
damage. In fact, most believe that they're actually helping
others when they pass along this meme. They might even feel
defensive or irritated when they read this article.
Hopefully they'll keep reading anyway.

*WHAT IS A MEME?

According to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/memea
meme is a unit of cultural information, such as a cultural
practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by
repeated action from one mind to another. Memes are the
cultural counterpart of genes. According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme, like genes, some ideas
will propagate less successfully and become extinct, while
others will survive, spread, and, for better or for worse,
mutate. Memeticists argue that the memes most beneficial to
their hosts will not necessarily survive; rather, those
memes that replicate the most effectively spread best,
which allows for the possibility that successful memes may
prove detrimental to their hosts.

HAVE YOU BEEN AFFECTED?

First, to see if you might have this meme too, take a look
at each of the following statements and ask yourself if it
is true for you some or most of the time. (To see if you
might be a perpetuating this meme, ask yourself if you are
intentionally or inadvertently teaching others these
things.)

_______ I use labels to decide whether I can eat a
particular food.
_______ I weigh, measure or count just about everything I
eat.
_______ I usually pass up foods that are high in certain
ingredients, like fat or carbs.
_______ I avoid certain places or situations where there
will be a lot of unhealthy food.
_______ I sometimes just give in and eat bad foods but
then make up for it by exercising more.
_______ I answered yes to one or more of the above and I'm
proud of my self-control.
_______ I answered no to all the questions but I admire
people that do and I believe that if I just had more
willpower I'd be able to control my weight better.
_______ I feel guilty when I eat certain foods.
_______ I feel bad about myself when I eat foods I know I
shouldn't.

SO WHAT IS THIS MEME?

A "yes" answer to any of the statements above may indicate
that you have this meme. This meme is the belief that
restrictive eating is healthy eating. It usually starts
with information about nutrition or weight management that
mutates into rules and restriction. But the blurring of the
line between healthy eating and restrictive eating is the
difference between a work of art and paint-by-number.
Either way, you end up with a nice picture--until you get up
close to take a look.

Healthy Eating vs. Restrictive Eating

In Charge > In Control
Nourishment > Diet
Fuel > Calories
Quality > Points
Healthy > Skinny
Aware > Preoccupied
Conscious > Consumed
Mindful > Vigilant
Information > Dogma
Guide > Rules
All foods fit > Good or bad
Balance > Perfection
Variety > Temptation
Moderation > Deprivation
Choosing > Earning
Deciding > Rationalizing
Flexible > Rigid
Hunger based > By the clock
Comfort > Portion sizes
Physical Activity > Penance
Introspective > Smug
Effortless > Willpower
Trust > Fear
Learning > Failing
Self-acceptance > Condemnation
Enjoyment > Guilt
Pleasure > Shame
Freedom > Bondage

The main reason that this meme is so powerful is that it
has a built-in protective mechanism: the underlying belief
that people who are overweight are incapable of handling
freedom or choice. This belief ensures the survival of the
meme because when you try to restrict yourself (or others)
it actually leads to more cravings for the foods you've
labeled "bad." When you finally "give in," you're more
likely to overeat, proving that you are incapable of
handling freedom or choice leading to more restriction. (If
you've already read Am I Hungry?, this is what causes Cycle
Switching.)

One of the reasons that the meme is so successful at
replicating itself is that it initially appears to be
beneficial to its host. That's why so many people
intentionally seek out this meme. The empires of Weight
Watchers®, Jenny Craig® and NutriSystem® (to name just a
few) were built on their ability to successfully transfer
this meme to millions.

For many people that promote health, wellness and weight
loss, "lifestyle change" and "healthy eating" have become
euphemisms for "you're going to be on this diet for the
rest of your life." I'm not being critical here; the meme
is so subtle and so ingrained that they usually don't even
realize that restriction is at the core of their message.

HOW IS THIS MEME SPREAD?

You are most prone to this meme if you're overweight (or
think you are). Everybody else that has the meme tries to
give it to you in an effort to help you (or sell you
something). It takes the form of rational suggestions,
loving advice and even harsh criticism.

The meme spreads vertically through advertising,
television, magazines, books, the Internet and medical
research. It is propagated by marketers, models,
celebrities, reporters, experts, bloggers, legislators and
academicians. It is then spread horizontally from doctor to
patient, dietitian to client, friend to friend, wife to
husband and parent to child.

Even Oprah Winfrey, a woman I highly respect, transmits
this meme to her viewers whenever she acts guilty for
eating something "fattening" on national TV. (I've seen her
do it on numerous occasions). Her example is especially
powerful because she is held up as a model for what one can
accomplish when they have this meme.

This meme is also swiftly moving from the United States to
the rest of the world. European countries seeing an
increase in obesity rates are now being inundated with the
same restrictive messages we've been hearing for decades.
The meme hasn't helped Americans and it won't help
overseas. Mark my words, if they start dieting, French
Women WILL Get Fat.

Some people who spread the meme are carriers but don't
actually manifest it themselves. For instance, some health
and fitness professionals eat instinctively without
restriction but spread the meme when they put their
patients or clients on a diet or rigid exercise regimen.

What pops into your mind when you think of bread?

It's just bread. But you've experienced the power of this
meme if words like "carbs," thoughts like "bad" and
feelings like "fear" popped up. How did this happen? Atkins
of course!

Innocent people who just wanted to lose some weight saw
dramatic results when they cut out carbs so they told other
people how easy and fast it was. The fact that it
contradicted established nutrition recommendations fueled a
media frenzy. Numerous experts fed the debate, drawing even
more attention to it. Low-fat diets didn't solve the
obesity epidemic but maybe low-carb diets would.

The food and restaurant industry quickly jumped on board
with a plethora of low-carb everything. Bread sales
plummeted and sales of protein bars went through the roof.
Never mind that most protein bars are the nutrition
equivalent of a candy bar disguised in a confusing
definition of "net carbs."

Some doctors even tried Atkins themselves then recommended
it to their patients. One physician pulled me aside at a
medical meeting to proudly announce that he had lost seven
pounds in the first week. He seemed disappointed when I
told him that unless he had a 3500 calorie deficit everyday
that week, it was probably mostly water.

Medical researchers also began studying low-carb diets.
Nowadays, their research isn't just published in medical
journals - they send out a press release to announce their
findings in the lay press (which unfortunately is where
some clinicians also get their nutrition education). In one
such study (JAMA. 2007; 297:969-977), subjects on Atkins
lost 4.7 pounds in a year while those on other diets lost
between 1.6 and 2.2 pounds. Not very impressive but the
headline in the popular press read "Low-Carb Diets Safe and
Effective for Weight Loss," giving the meme more
legitimacy.

Of course the vast majority of people on Atkins gained
their weight back (SURPRISE!) but by then it was too late.
The meme had already integrated itself into our cultural
beliefs. If you still think bread and pasta are bad and
feel guilty when you eat them, you have the meme.

HOW TO GET RID OF THE MEME

Take a close look at the "picture of health" you're
painting. Is it constrained by rigid lines and someone
else's choice of colors? Or does it express your
individuality, your preferences and your lifestyle? Choose
now how you want to create your work of art. If you want to
rid yourself of the "restrictive eating is healthy eating"
meme, here are some specific steps you can take.

1. Expose the meme. Filter everything you read, hear and
say by asking, "Is this restrictive in nature?" (You might
be surprised when you start to notice just how pervasive it
really is!)

2. Begin to monitor your little voice. (This meme is sneaky
so it may be helpful to journal so you capture the real
essence of your beliefs, thoughts, feelings and choices.)
When you notice restrictive eating thoughts from the second
column above, gently replace them with true healthy eating
thoughts from the first column.

3. Remember, the meme may have you convinced that you are
incapable of managing your weight without rigid rules. Find
role models, health care providers and non-diet approaches
that don't propagate the meme. With time, support and new
tools you can do it!

4. Use nutrition information as a tool not a weapon.
Remember, all foods fit into a healthy diet.

5. Make the healthiest choice you can without feeling
deprived. It is balance, variety and moderation.

6. Let go of the belief that you need to eat perfectly -
that is the meme talking. Accept that you'll sometimes
regret certain choices you make - that is part of healthy
eating. When you don't get caught up in guilt and shame,
you're able to learn from your experiences.

7. Repeat often: It's just food and I can learn to trust
and nourish myself without restriction.
Hopefully it occurred to you that all of this applies to
exercise too. In another issue, I'll talk to you about the
memes that can lead to overeating and how you can banish
those.

For now, discover joy in creating your masterpiece!
Michelle May, M.D.

Carol - very interesting article.
I don't think it is far out.
I did answer "yes" to reading food labels. But this is not so much about restriction but rather looking for quality. For example I am not big on chocolate, but if I am going to get some it is not going to have "vanillin" in it; it will have pure vanilla extract. It's more about taste and eating things that are real foods. Amazingly enough, so many of our foods are more a product of chemical technology rather than agriculture and it requires some reading to be able to tell the difference! But aside from that little bit I think it's right on. Interesting about the meme concept. I'm sure this happens, I just never heard of a label for it before. (And as we all know in our culture if something doesn't have a label it doesn't exist.) Ha. Feeling a little cynical today.
jo

psychological sabotage?
 

The meme idea had me thinking...
so how much of this meme or whatever it is also is associated with guilt or blame that need not have been placed because we really would not intuitively like to eat the thing that we are supposed to feel guilty about eating?
For example I believe we are taught that we are supposed to like donuts and cake and we are supposed to feel guilty if we eat them. Actually I have never liked donuts and cake. So if I am presented with them as a big treat and a forbidden pleasure it becomes very confusing. The meme is all convoluted. People are suggestable. If they are told enough times that something is really enjoyable they might enjoy it even if they might not if not told so. And that brings me to stereotypes about kids tastes. I have never had kids so all I have is my own memory of being one, and my observations of what others say and do. But judging by comments I hear from parents, like "children don't like nuts, don't like crusts of bread, don't like vegetables, do like chicken nuggets, etc." I wonder how much unnecessary programming of the meme we do before the kids even get started on intuiting what they want to eat. They go to the restaurant and have to pick from the "kid's menu" which is a bunch of crap. There are no vegetables on the "kids menu," because they supposedly don't like them. Chicken or the egg?
Thanks for letting me ramble.

Spinymouse, I hear you on the child mentality of "play versus eat." I do remember when eating seemed like too much of a chore or too time-consuming to do for pleasure. It's only a matter of time.

Carol, Interesting article. I guess we just have to change our way of thinking. We're on the right track to purging the meme. It's true that many people don't even realize that this has taken over or even that it exists at all. Thanks for posting that!

As for my weekend, Saturday's run was great. Yes, it was hot, but I did the scheduled 8 miles. Almost always, I take the day after a long run off, not even doing cross training, but I found myself with the runner's itch. I ran 4 miles Sunday morning. My legs are sore. I'm not running/working out today.

The Intuitive Eating is going well. I have my moments, but I'm catching on. Today, I even had a snicker's bar. I'm learning what I need to do to be successful. I'm keeping healthy foods that I enjoy in my house. I'm also allowing myself a treat each day. For me, it's helping to kick the whole "all or nothing" principle. Just knowing that I can eat a candy bar at work, enjoy it, and not give up on "losing weight" because I ate something "bad," helps me to look beyond the "black or white." All this time, I've been in search of a little gray. I heard a silly comparison, I believe while reading up on Intuitive Eating: Just because you slip on a single stair, doesn't mean you should throw yourself down the next flight!
It really puts things in perspective and lets you see how silly it is when you say, "Oh I screwed up and had a piece of cake--may as well finish it off."

I hope everyone's week is off to a good start.

Zen

Hi all,
I don't think I've posted since maybe January... maybe later... After a year learning how to IE I am finally starting to lose weight. I think it took me longer to really learn it because I was a compulsive emotional eater and I had a lot of food obstacles to overcome. When you try to move a "you can't have that food" into safe territory you may have some overeating trials before you don't have an emotional connection to that food anymore. For example, French bread was always a forbidden treat. I had to give myself permission to eat as much of it as I wanted for several days until it wasn't a "special" food anymore. Now I can take it or leave it. Now I had so many forbidden foods that it has been quite a process!!! I was the person that would buy pounds of chocolate and hide it and overeat. Now I can eat a regular size candy bar and be satisfied. I still buy the king size more often than not, but it is much better than the pounder bag! And now I only have chocolate about once a week! I haven't been "feeling" hungry much lately, but I try to have something light if I haven't eaten much during the day so my blood sugar won't drop and get me to eating emotionally. My biggest thing has been not going back for seconds and eating small portions. My stomach takes a while to tell me I'm full, so if I finish my serving and still feel hungry I just walk away and get busy with something. I usually find that the fullness signal comes and I was actually satisfied.

33- Don't try to cut calories before your half. You need to be well supplied. I have run 7 marathons and 2 half marathons over the last three years. I've tried crazy diets that sapped my energy.

Jerie, I understand your struggle to like yourself. When I first started this I was seeing a nutritional therapist- mostly to try to start liking myself for who I was. I cried TONS!! I ended up pitching all of my "clothes I hope to be able to wear when I lose weight" and getting clothes that fit and make me feel good. If I end up needing a smaller size later- well, great.. if not, I can feel proud of who I am now.

Good to see you again, Kay. And even better to hear about your experience with IE. I'm kind of amazed at how little fills me up now. I kind of dread having to up my prednisone dose again (if it comes to that) as I have already upped it twice and haven't been as hungry as I used to be. Maybe your body gets used to it after awhile. I know a lady who has recently adopted IE and is losing about a lb a week, already losing nearly 50lb. Wish I could be that consistent.

Hi Everyone - hope you're having a good week so far.

Jo - I was so controlled (by parents) as to what I could & couldn't eat as a kid, I think that's some of my problem now. If they said I couldn't have it, I would eat it to spite them, even if I didn't like it. I swore I would not do that to my kids. I always offered them a variety of things, and encouraged them to at least taste new stuff. They are still that way, and neither one has any weight problems. And both of them & their children have eaten vegetables since they were old enuff to feed themselves. I also hear you on the label reading. If they have lists of things I can't even pronounce, much less know what they are, I'm not going to eat it.

Kay - well I am crying tons too. And sometimes I still eat instead, but a lot of times I just cry and move on. It's so empowering to me not to binge just because I'm sad or whatever. To know that the crying really doesn't last forever, unlike the weight I put on by eating the tears, which does seem to last forever.

Oh, Don't talk about crying. What is it? Our age? At least food doesn't help with that. And the heat is another good appetite surpressor. Does anyone think that exercise helps with mood? I've read a lot that it does but haven't found it helpful as yet. But I'll keep trying. I really like our eliptical because you get to breathing hard right away and sweating, too. Lately I've been trying to get in 10 min. here and there when we are particularly busy. I'd really like to be outside but no sun for me and that's ok.

Hi all - Carol, I've always heard that exercise helps with mood, but when I'm down in the dumps, I can't get up the enery to exercise. :) As to the crying, I started doing it more when both my parents were gone, and realizing I am the one the family looks to for the family past. My son has been scanning all the family photographs onto disk, and has been asking me to identify some of the people in them. That's when it really hit me that I'm the only one left who even remembers some of the people in those pictures, and I couldn't identify some of them. So yes, I think it's partly age. I just know I cry more now than I ever did in my whole life.

Hope everyone is having a good week.

Hi Jerie, My mom and dad are gone, too and I have only one brother. My mom was an only child and my dad only had one sister who had one son. All those people are gone now. So my brother and I are the ones left. My mom was really good about keeping notes and pictures from the past. I have 10 kids and my brother has 2. He has 2 sons age 36 and 9.(And a daughter age 39) He was single for 21 yr. and married again late in life. His wife is 15 yr. younger than he is. He'll be 72 when his youngest boy graduates from high school. He lives in AR so we don't see each other much. We were all originally from NE. I keep pretty busy with the kids and grandkids but I still miss my mom who died a year ago Aug. 18th. Can't believe it has been almost a year. On eating, didn't do to good yesterday. Just seemed to be hungry all day. Today is better. We've had a lot of company lately so maybe the slow down will help.

Forgot to say that when I got in bed last night I thought about fasting for a few days. I used to do a lot of that and it never helped in the long run. Because of the meds I take, I don't think I could do it anyway.

I was just reading about a lady who started an organization called HUGS. Here is her story. She has a website.


by Linda Omichinski


I was drawn toward the profession of nutrition out of an interest in food and how your body works and at that time, a desire to help people lose weight. What I didn't realize was the sudden turn my career would end up taking as my discovery that focusing on weight loss ended up doing more harm than good.

I never had a problem with my relationship with food. As a child I was always a non-dieter. I honestly attribute these results to my childhood environment. My parents created an atmosphere of total acceptance of me with regard to food preferences and other choices. Expectations about my accomplishments were reasonable. Food was always slotted to the right perspective, enjoyable yet certainly not remembered in my mind as the main event at special occasions.Even though I was a little pudgy after a trip to Europe when I was a teenager, my mother never encouraged me to diet. Weight was never an issue. I never desired to go on a diet. My clothes were simply let out to accommodate a slightly larger body shape. Surprisingly, somewhere along the way I once again fit into the same size of clothes before the weight gain. I have no idea as how this happened as it was never the focus -- a normal routine was simply resumed. This meant returning to some of the activities that I enjoyed -- experimenting with tennis and enjoying dancing. Yet my mother seemed to be struggling with her weight since her early thirties. I was actually drawn to dietetics to help her. Yes, I learned about nutrition and food exchanges, calories and all the particulars to regulate or control the amount of food one ate. When she was a member of a popular weight loss program, I remember being excited that I knew the exchanges and could help her control her eating. My mother did lose weight; but then she did gain it back plus some. She returned to the program only one more time. Luckily she had the insight to realize that diets do not work. She was drawn, and had less color in her face than her usual rosy complexion - she was thinner but did not look healthy. Now when reflecting on these early years in my career, I believe that I was actually doing more harm than good. As a trained registered dietitian, the traditional schooling of employing the medical model led me to believe that individualized diets were the answer to permanent weight loss and that weight loss improves one's health. But over the years, I have come to realize that the health issue isn't weight loss and diets at all. The answer lies in health and self-acceptance.

Beginning to question...Instead of being wrapped up in the excitement that my clients knew exchanges and had lots of knowledge about nutrition, I began to listen, to really listen. And then I questioned myself -"If they understand what they should and shouldn't eat, then why can't they do it? Is it just that they don't have enough willpower? Many people believe it's that simple. Or maybe something is wrong with the approach and methods I've learned?" I discovered a number of interesting and revealing facts which were contrary to the teachings I learned as part of the dietetic internship. I'd like to share these discoveries and observations with you.

Each time anyone would lose weight, it became easier to put the weight back on and harder to lose it again....later on, through my readings, I found evidence that this was due in part to loss of muscle mass and regain of fat with the weight loss and regain cycles which resulted in a slower metabolism.

Any time my clients would focus on the scale and counting calories or exchanges, they became more preoccupied with food and weight. They would use words like "faithfully" following their diet until the weekend when they would as they indicated cheat and go off the diet.....Later on I discovered that feelings of deprivation instilled by the "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts" of dieting led to the normal process referred to as bingeing. In fact, they hadn't failed.....diets failed them.

Another observation was the intensity that went into dieting also transferred to exercise. My clients actually looked at exercise as a way of punishing themselves for the food they ate. Calories in/calories out was the equation they remembered....if it was only that simple. I came to refer to this as the diet thinking in the exercise field....the all or nothing thinking....dieters would tend to go at exercise full force or not at all which paralleled the way they treated dieting. My own experience at physical activity and observing those who are hooked on activity was that it needed to be fun to want to make it part of your daily routine. Fun was never part of a dieter's vocabulary.

Another common thread among dieters is that their self-esteem was closely tied to their weight for the day. And as their weight went down, they felt better; as it increased, they felt badly. Their weight was such a factor that it was noted that they would not eat prior to weighing in so that they would feel successful with any weight loss, no matter how small. Is this enforcing a change in eating habits? Or is this way of thinking instilling a starve/binge cycle of starving prior to weighing in only to lead to the binge to celebrate the weight loss? These kinds of discoveries took years to crystallize, and it was just a few years ago that I was able to develop a sense of true mission for the work I am doing.Today my main focus is to spread the non-diet message to both health professionals and the lay public.

Thanks Carol for letting us know about this site. I always appreciate when you take the effort to give us information about studies, articles or Web Sites.

Hope everyone is doing good!

:)

Carol, thanks for posting a great article. (You folks don't mind me popping in, do you?) I think the restrictive eating meme is flourishing right here on the 3fc forums (present company excepted, of course).

Thanks, Carol - It is always thought-provoking to read the articles you find.

My thoughts today are more suited to general chatter perhaps than IE, but I feel comfortable here so how about IE general chatter?
Yesterday I went to the fair and bought a piece of jewelry. The moment I bought it I was hit with the idea of it being a ludicrous thing to do, and I said to my friend, "this is like putting an attractive garnish on a bad-tasting, old, moldy casserole that needs to be thrown out!" My friend replied, "yeah, but ya gotta buy some stuff at the fair, that is just how it is."
So anyway, I am thinking of how dumb it is to try to dress up something that is ugly, and then I am thinking of why would I even care to not be ugly? and some of that self defined ugly has to do with being fat, but it is more than that. My main reasons for wanting to be slim are for health. I have no desire to be 'attractive' to anyone for sexual purposes, as I would rather be bludgeoned with a crowbar than have sex, and I am too old anyway to aspire to that sort of thing. Sometimes I lose motivation regarding the health purposes, and I don't have any backup "superficial motivation" to pull me through so I just drink too many beers and say, to Detroit with it all.
Thanks for listening.

Jo - I don't think you're ugly. I think you have a beautiful soul, and that's better than pretty any time. You make me laugh - bludgeoned with a crowbar??? - couldn't have expressed it better myself.

Carol - thanks for the article. I sure agree with what she said. It's why I've abandoned diets. Diets are just cruel and unusual punishment, as far as I'm concerned.

Hope everyone is well and happy.

I really love this part, I think I am going to print it out and put it up somewhere to remind me. Since I was 10, so that's for the past 15 years, I've dieted, fasted, and some worse things too. I'm going to start thinking about my health, about losing weight slowly, instead of needing that quick loss.

I've read both "Overcoming Overeating" and "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies," and they were interesting, insightful, but I felt way way out of control following the OO plan (ie having every possible treat around in large quantities all the time). I still do buy myself pretty much anything I want to eat, but just enough for right then. I can always go back to the store, it is like my second pantry, right?

I don't want to diet. I don't want to be obsessed for the rest of my life. And I sure as **** don't want to turn into a calorie accountant. By biggest problem is bingeing (I am now able to say "no' to the urge to fast afterwards). I'm working on finding other things to do when I am bored, and working through my feelings when they're urging me to stuff myself until sick.

Oh, and hello guys!!

Hi Ianthe and Welcome!!
I'm looking forward to getting to know you here. Yeah, I love that list that you quoted. I think my favorite contrast is Aware vs. Preoccupied. Gawd, life is too short to be preoccupied!
jo

Oh! Sorry I missed Marlu's post -- Hi Marlu and welcome!! Yes, I agree, the restrictive eating meme is flourishing full blast. But maybe it's a "step," you know, to getting back to reality, kind of like learning the rules first before you throw them out the window??
(that is just a rare attempt at optimism from me.....)
Still having a dumpy time here. Trusting things will get better.

Hi all,
We just got back from the beach. I thought eating would be a struggle, but it wasn't too bad. My parents went and so did my sister and her family. I find that when I am with my mom I tend to eat more junk food. She encourages it, and then she complains about her weight. I hate it when she makes breakfast and then tries to force the kids to keep eating when they say they are full. I am trying so hard to keep my kids intuitive eaters and not members of the clean plate club. My eleven year old is starting to understand that it feel uncomfortable to overeat, and he will tell me he is full and almost ask permission not to finish his plate. (I think he knows that grandma will try to get him to do so.) My four year old will just refuse to eat when he has had enough. I realized that I will just have to be extra careful when I am with mom to make sure she doesn't pull me into the eating trap. She is an awesome person, but I can't talk to her about IE because she just refuses to admit she has food issues. She is overweight, but not morbidly so. She wants to lose weight but usually has some radical plan instead of common sense.
We all know that drill :)
Heading to the gym, will write more later. Have a super day.

Jo, I kind of remember a picture of you and Fiddler awhile back and you are not ugly. But I should talk because I sometimes have the same type of thoughts. ha! My daughter and SIL had a wedding reception yesterday so eating was kind of bad but that's ok. They were married a 2 months ago at the justice of the peace. They didn't want a big wedding. Actually my daughter didn't want this reception either but her MIL did. So they did. As for IE I am learning that there will be bad days and good days so accept it. And I will.

Hi Ladies,
I've found myself thinking I need to eat chocolate and sugar the last couple of days and KNOW that I am not hungry. I have been eating it anyway. I know it is that hormonal time, but I would like to be able to say "no" when I am not really hungry for it... Guess I need to stop and pray to get myself centered.

I've been praying, too, Kay, especially at night before I go to sleep and in the morning if it's not too hectic. Right now my 2 daughters and families are here so it is hectic! I think chocolate must have some kind of mood stablizer in it because it sure does work for that!!!!

Carol,
I hear you with the whole mood stabilizer thing! :)

I saw you had posted at the weigh down thread. I have that book and see a lot of parallels between the ideas in that book and intuitive eating.

I generally pray when I first wake up about my day. I try to think of the things I am going to encounter during the day, meetings I might be going to etc. and then pray about them going well or my dealing with others in the right way. Then at night I pray in reviewing my day, giving thanks and for guidance in correcting errors I've made. Works for me!

Had a good food day. Went swimming with my husband and kids. My four year old tried to dive off the side of the pool and did a pretty good job! Both he and my 11 year old got their shots for school today. They were both pretty brave. The nurse said swimming would be good for getting their muscles moving so they wouldn't be so sore.

Great picture, Kay. My kids and grandkids are still here and yesterday we went to a water park at Wisconsin Dells. There were 20 of us so we got a group rate. I'm sure tired today but nothing pressing to do so I'll just try to relax a little. So hot lately. This morning I was craving a tuna sandwich. How's that for breakfast?

A tuna sandwich sounds perfect for breakfast, Carol!

Life is too short to eat "breakfast food!" (Just one of the reasons I couldn't be on a traditionally dictated diet!)

Carol,
You would do well with my husband. He eats tuna a lot! He will open a can of black olives, a can of mushrooms, a can of tuna, and then pour that all on lettuce with some greek salad dressing. He eats that for a meal at least once or twice a day!

Spiny,
You are right. I like to be able to eat what I am craving at the moment, even if it is not traditional! My kids are known to have leftovers for breakfast.

It is so hot here! We had such a cool summer with all the rain, and now it has returned to normal texas heat. This is the time of the day when I am totally useless. I am sort of sleepy, it feels like forever until bedtime, and I have no desire to do anything productive. A pool would really be nice.... Guess I'll go see what the kids are up to.

Kay, I here you about the heat. Even though I live in WI and not Texas, the heat gets to me especially with the high humidity . It rained this morning and it seems to be a little less humid but it really tires me out. And of course we've been staying up so late with all the kids and grandkids here and also eating at 9 to 10pm!!! It's so good to see them all but I wish they lived closer so it didn't have to be so intense when those that live far away come home. Some do live nearby but they are always here when the others come for a visit. I just wish I could bottle up all the fun and hugs from then grandkids and save some for a winter day!!!!! Love them all so. I hope I don't cry when they leave today (they're all out boating right now) but I know I will.