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Old 07-16-2012, 06:59 PM   #16  
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Well that makes sense, but the days I'm not feeling hungry I could well be turning that zuker sizeways and saying full! to the 1 cup measurement. I'm just thinking what a fair measurement would be for these critters or anti-critters as it were.

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Old 07-16-2012, 07:09 PM   #17  
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Originally Posted by mammoth357 View Post
Someone please tell me what this means: from that sheet:

"Occasional (you may only choose two items per week from this list)"

OK...haha! So what's that actually mean? That you can pick 2 items, say, Snow Peas and Tomato...and have them BOTH 2 times a week (up to 4 cups of each?)? And really, how many cups of each? way too confusing!
You are way over thinking this list. You may have only a total two- two cup servings from that list a week, it doesn't matter if it is one serving of two things or two servings of one thing. I guess you could also do a melange of the vegetables of that group, but 2 cups is one serving.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #18  
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You are way over thinking this list. You may have only a total two- two cup servings from that list a week, it doesn't matter if it is one serving of two things or two servings of one thing. I guess you could also do a melange of the vegetables of that group, but 2 cups is one serving.
Thanks! Wish my sheet simply said that but that would have made it too easy! haha!

So basically you are allowed 4 cups a week from that list...can be all 1 item, but no more then 2 items. SPlit it how you want. Got it...THANKS SO MUCH!
Jake
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:18 PM   #19  
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Yes, the inconsistencies are vexing.
One thing might be the acid/alkaline thing, but that doesn't always pan out.
The fiber doesn't look like it makes that much difference on the rutabagas (try looking up jicama!)

How does one find out what her carb max is? Is that an atkin's diet thing I could look up? I just go with the flow with IP and generally mix up the veggies or offset a higher carb one with a lower (1 cup spinach plus 1 cup red peppers, for example).

Also, if your carb max is 75g (would that be measured as net carbs or total carbs?), for example, would it make you lose faster by keeping carbs at 25g or 50g? Or, once you are below your personal max it doesn't matter?

Just curious.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:19 PM   #20  
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Well that makes sense, but the days I'm not feeling hungry I could well be turning that zuker sizeways and saying full! to the 1 cup measurement. I'm just thinking what a fair measurement would be for these critters or anti-critters as it were.
Hi Half...
I cut that zuke into slices about 1/4 inch think and throw them into a measuring cup till it shows 1 cup.

I have since realized that a small zuke will about be the 1 cup....so now I buy them that size and no need to measure!

Cheers!
Jake
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:32 PM   #21  
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Veggies: all values are for 1 cup raw:
...............................Pro Carbs Fiber Sugar Calories

Spinach 1 cup.......... 1......1...... 1...... 0.......... 7
Swiss Chard 1 cup...... 1.......1......1.......0..........7
Collard Greens 1 cup.. 1........2......1 ......0.........11
Mushrooms 1cup....... 2........2.......1......1.........15
Turnip Greens 1 cup... 1........4.......2.......0........18
Zucchini 1 cup......... 2........4.......1.......2........20
Cabbage Savory 1 cup..1.......4.......2........2........19
Eggplant 1 cup.........1.......5.......3........2........20
Cauliflower 1 cup.........2.......5.......3........2........25
Asparagus 1 cup.......3.......5.......3........3........27
Rhubarb 1 cup.............1.......6.......2........1........ 26
Broccoli 1 cup .........3.......6.......2.........2........31
Cabbage Red 1 cup......1.......7.......2.........3........28
Turnip 1 cup cubes.......1.......8......2.........5........36
Rutabaga 1 cup cubes...2......11.....4 .........8.......50

Now how is it that Eggplant is on the "Occasional"list yet Rutabaga in on the "Select" everyday use list? (look above at their values)If you have 4 cups of Rutabaga a day, that is 200 calories and a whopping 32 grams SUGAR...

The sheet for Phase 1 that I have is dated 05/02/12
Someone please tell me what this means: from that sheet:

"Occasional (you may only choose two items per week from this list)"

OK...haha! So what's that actually mean? That you can pick 2 items, say, Snow Peas and Tomato...and have them BOTH 2 times a week (up to 4 cups of each?)? And really, how many cups of each? way too confusing!

Now back to the veggie list above:
If you have 4 cups of spinach in the day, you only get 28 total calories and 4 total carbs (0 sugars). AWESOME!
If you have 4 cups of Rutabaga in the day, you get a whopping 200 calories and a confusing 44 gram total carbs. Are they NUTS! That 32 grams SUGAR and for many people that will knock you out of ketosis. I know for me personally, ANY sugars total for the day over like 8 or 10g and I am OUT of ketosis in a NY minute! Then I can figure 3 days to get back on...I did Atkins induction for over a year (lost 100 pounds) so I "know" ketosis real well and know my body real well.

So why would a person not select the veggies that really will help them stay in ketosis, give the lowest carbs and the least sugars and maximize their program?

And more importantly, why when they make these sheets don't they split up the veggies and save people who care about all this, the work?

Obviously the person who has the 4 cups rutabaga is having 172 calories more that day then the person who has 4 cups spinach, for example.

On this program, thats HUGE! Do that for a week and you consumed 1204 calories more then the spinach eater in this example. When you only get around 735-950 (depending on if protein is chicken, shrimp, fish, sirloin etc)calories a day anyway, you just consumed 8 days worth of caloric intake in 7 days. How can that NOT make you lose less weight then what your real potential could have been. And if it knocks you out of ketosis, you will have even greater hunger, cravings etc until you get back in...

Where is that line drawn by those who compose these sheets? Do they even care about this? I mean I realize the local clinic is a business and they need to keep you buying product...but come-on!

You can read everything out there on ketosis, how many sugar carbs a day can one consume and still stay in ketosis, etc etc...and the real number is different for each of us. I think everyone should start this program and the first 2 weeks right away find out "their number"...and then a person can better select which veggies to eat and if "bars" will be OK for "them", etc...

Like I said, my "sugar number" is like 8-10g a day no matter what form or where it comes from...I also know I cannot consume most ANY sugar alcohols as for "me" they do convert to glucose and knock me out of ketosis...tomatoes will too (for me)...

So knowing my "sugar number" allows me to then select which veggies and how much of each I might have and not jeopardize my ketosis...as my shakes are "0" sugars and I don't do the protein bars and other foods that contain sugar of any amount because I can't...in this way the veggie's I choose help me lose weight and stay in ketosis.

The naturally occurring sugars in veggies will still metabolize in the liver to Glucose (which threatens our ketosis). By doing the IP program we "lower" glucose (and glucose converting foods)consumption enough that thus causes the liver to produce ketones (4 diff types)...3 types of ketones will "feed" us and nourish the brain etc...the 4th ketone type is expelled by our bodies.

So even though I am running on here,...the message is to choose your veggies smartly...if you wish to maximize your weight loss. And YES there are some people who would drop a ton of weight on this program with no regard to sugars, no regard to ketosis because any larger mammal on very low calories will lose weight, period. But doing it "right" you can lose more, and lose it much quicker.

Veggie selection can aid in that pursuit, as not all veggies are created equal even though they might share a section on the phase 1 sheet.
Just saying....

Cheers
jake
Jake, thank you so much, this is such great information!! I have been having such a hard time the last couple of weeks, low losses or no loss at all. I now know what I have been doing wrong. I am going to be smarter about my vegetable choices.

I kept trying to identify what I was doing different. Why I kept falling out of ketosis and not losing or losing very little. But, looking back at my log book I see the first two weeks I used spinach, mushroom and romaine salads as my vegetables. The last three weeks I have been eating cabbage, broccoli, rhubarb, turnips...much higher carb veggies.

I have been so OP, I just couldn't figure out what was going on. Thanks again for posting this. You should be an IP coach.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:52 PM   #22  
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I found a good chart for carbs in vegetables. Didn't know there were so many different vegetables!
http://www.realfoodnutrients.com/dia...vegetables.htm
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:08 PM   #23  
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Yes, the inconsistencies are vexing.
One thing might be the acid/alkaline thing, but that doesn't always pan out.
The fiber doesn't look like it makes that much difference on the rutabagas (try looking up jicama!)

How does one find out what her carb max is? Is that an atkin's diet thing I could look up? I just go with the flow with IP and generally mix up the veggies or offset a higher carb one with a lower (1 cup spinach plus 1 cup red peppers, for example).

Also, if your carb max is 75g (would that be measured as net carbs or total carbs?), for example, would it make you lose faster by keeping carbs at 25g or 50g? Or, once you are below your personal max it doesn't matter?

Just curious.
Hi Infoplease!

I found my limit by going up in 5 carb a week increments until I saw and "felt" and "knew" I was no longer in ketosis. On Atkins in the maintenance phase they do that also and find their "lock" number...that is the total number of NET carbs, that if you go over that number, you gain weight. Again, that is done in 5 carb increments.

I have found I do best under 20g carb a day...but thats ME. I was on Atkins induction for over a year (under 20 carbs a day) and lost 100 pounds. I know ketosis well. Whether I consumed 10g carb a day or the 20g a day did not matter to my weight loss. But if I had a day and consumed 40g carbs it knocked me out of ketosis and I had to waste 3 days to get back in, Again, those are MY numbers which I learned about myself over time.

You also need to find out about YOU. Meaning, do certain foods stall you...and avoid them. I know sugar alcohols will do that to me as will tomatoes (which I LOVE)...so I don't have any. etc. Its a learning process and very individual.

Just so I don't get yelled at here by anyone, The info being discussed is for those who WANT to maximize their results and time in ketosis by selecting the "better" veggies from the IP list etc...

And finally I have read enough on this forum to know not all "coaches" are created equally...some know what they are doing, and obviously many don't. So many people here get conflicting answers from their coaches it is just silly.

Anyway...
Just sharing what I know as to ketosis, veggie choices, and maximizing weight loss with IP by making better veggie choices etc...
Cheers
Jake

Last edited by mammoth357; 07-16-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:20 PM   #24  
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This is very interesting. I looked up okra (I'm having that now with lunch): http://calorielab.com/foods/okra/155

Food Measure Prot Carb Fat Pts Cals
Okra, (100.0 g) 2 7 0.1 0 31

Interesting - a cup of okra is approximately 8 3" pods.

Oh I just remembered, don't we subtract the vegetable fiber from the carbs to come up with the net carbs?
Right. Doesn't fiber grams get figured in somewhere?
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:26 PM   #25  
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Jake, this is REALLY helpful to me. Thanks!
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:13 PM   #26  
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Originally Posted by mammoth357 View Post
Thanks! Wish my sheet simply said that but that would have made it too easy! haha!

So basically you are allowed 4 cups a week from that list...can be all 1 item, but no more then 2 items. SPlit it how you want. Got it...THANKS SO MUCH!

Jake
Not really 4 cups, 2 servings of 2 cups. When I first started I thought maybe I could have a half cup of tomatoes on 4 days and have it count as one restricted veg serving, but my coach nixed that idea.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:53 PM   #27  
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Originally Posted by mammoth357 View Post
Thanks! Wish my sheet simply said that but that would have made it too easy! haha!

So basically you are allowed 4 cups a week from that list...can be all 1 item, but no more then 2 items. SPlit it how you want. Got it...THANKS SO MUCH!
Jake
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandmaKiss View Post
Not really 4 cups, 2 servings of 2 cups. When I first started I thought maybe I could have a half cup of tomatoes on 4 days and have it count as one restricted veg serving, but my coach nixed that idea.
the coach i talked to explained it to me like this...
2 times a week....i can choose up to 2 cups at a time from the restricted LIST.
it doesn't have to be all 1 item, it can be 1,2,3 or 4 items....but no more than 2 cups total

for 1 meal in the week i can have any combination of 2 cups
ex: i can have 1/2 cup tomatoes, 1/2 cup brussel sprouts and 1/2 cup green beans and 1/2 cup snow peas IF i choose....but it has to be all for that 1 meal and counts as my 2 cups.

i can only do this 2 times a week either for lunch veggies or supper veggies

it cannot be 1/2 cup for 4 different days, etc

that made pretty good sense to me although that is not how i "read" it to be?

Last edited by rainbowsmiles; 07-16-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:53 PM   #28  
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Hi Infoplease!

I found my limit by going up in 5 carb a week increments until I saw and "felt" and "knew" I was no longer in ketosis. On Atkins in the maintenance phase they do that also and find their "lock" number...that is the total number of NET carbs, that if you go over that number, you gain weight. Again, that is done in 5 carb increments.

I have found I do best under 20g carb a day...but thats ME. I was on Atkins induction for over a year (under 20 carbs a day) and lost 100 pounds. I know ketosis well. Whether I consumed 10g carb a day or the 20g a day did not matter to my weight loss. But if I had a day and consumed 40g carbs it knocked me out of ketosis and I had to waste 3 days to get back in, Again, those are MY numbers which I learned about myself over time.

You also need to find out about YOU. Meaning, do certain foods stall you...and avoid them. I know sugar alcohols will do that to me as will tomatoes (which I LOVE)...so I don't have any. etc. Its a learning process and very individual.

Just so I don't get yelled at here by anyone, The info being discussed is for those who WANT to maximize their results and time in ketosis by selecting the "better" veggies from the IP list etc...

And finally I have read enough on this forum to know not all "coaches" are created equally...some know what they are doing, and obviously many don't. So many people here get conflicting answers from their coaches it is just silly.

Anyway...
Just sharing what I know as to ketosis, veggie choices, and maximizing weight loss with IP by making better veggie choices etc...
Cheers
Jake
THANK YOU!
Almost motivates me to go back thru and match food diaries with weight loss. Almost. Maybe just look at the one week where I had zero pounds and zero fat percentage change.

The IdealCoaching videos had an episode where they suggested that very carb sensitive people might need to adjust the IP choices for carbs. It might have mentioned vegetables, too, I just don't remember.

One other ketosis question for you. Can exercise knock you out of ketosis? By exercise, I mean circuit training or a Zumba class or something above the fatburning zone.

Thanks!
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:15 PM   #29  
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To me, part of the point of this post is neither to encourage us to eat 14 cups of spinach a week nor keep us from eating 14 cups of rutabagas a week, but to explain the importance of variety from a carb perspective (and I think it is important from a vitamin and mineral perspective as well.)

So here are my challenge questions:
Has anyone tried EVERY vegetable on the "select" list?
How many have you tried?
How many had you never tried before IP?
And, do you seem to prefer the higher carb ones?

I'll start.

I haven't tried every vegetable on the list.
I have tried 30.
I had never tried kale (only seen it as a garnish) and I have eaten more of ones I had only tried once or twice before (fennel, leeks).
I seem to prefer the ones that aren't green (red pepper, jicama, mushrooms) to mellow out the spinach and zucchini and celery (and I remain not a big cucumber fan).
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:34 PM   #30  
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One other ketosis question for you. Can exercise knock you out of ketosis? By exercise, I mean circuit training or a Zumba class or something above the fatburning zone.

Thanks!
I am not very informed on the exercise topic...but there is something there that says if you consume no carbohydrates at all, the body will start converting protein into glucose, which we do not want to happen as we need that protein to protect our heart and muscles...therefore we have good carbs from our veggies and some carbs from our shakes and having "some" carbs is an important thing.

When you exercise you are consuming energy...while in ketosis that energy is in the form of ketones...if you exercise too much you will consume your ketones at a rate quicker then your liver can metabolize more and then you will begin to convert protein to to glucose.
SO, you would in that example need either more carbs so keep this from happening or less exercise.

The "more carbs" would require a balance where you know how far you can go adding in carbs and yet still staying in ketosis...so there is a delicate balance.

Maybe someone else can better answer this...I really have never spent much time researching this....
Cheers!
Jake
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