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Old 07-16-2012, 11:44 PM   #31  
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Originally Posted by mammoth357 View Post
I am not very informed on the exercise topic...but there is something there that says if you consume no carbohydrates at all, the body will start converting protein into glucose, which we do not want to happen as we need that protein to protect our heart and muscles...therefore we have good carbs from our veggies and some carbs from our shakes and having "some" carbs is an important thing.

When you exercise you are consuming energy...while in ketosis that energy is in the form of ketones...if you exercise too much you will consume your ketones at a rate quicker then your liver can metabolize more and then you will begin to convert protein to to glucose.
SO, you would in that example need either more carbs so keep this from happening or less exercise.

The "more carbs" would require a balance where you know how far you can go adding in carbs and yet still staying in ketosis...so there is a delicate balance.

Maybe someone else can better answer this...I really have never spent much time researching this....
Cheers!
Jake
Thanks, Jake. I have only begun researching.
At this point, I add extra protein, either an IP product (sometimes restricted sometimes not) or two whole eggs.
That improves the endurance but my strength is still quite pathetic and my balance is worse (so I can have new goals after I reach my IP one). When I do that, I am not really hungry afterwards and will push the 45 minute rule a little, but usually just make lunch. I almost think it is a more calories thing.

At the seminar tonight, she told a story of a client that had been on maintenance and decided to run a marathon. He did some "carbo loading" leading up to the event, and gained 12 lbs. After the marathon, he had lost one. (He went back on Phase 1 after the race, so his workout clothes would fit again!) So I can see that the carb balance piece is a little complex.

Interesting stuff.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:15 AM   #32  
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I feel really good for eating nothing but spinach, now!!
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:26 AM   #33  
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I love all this information! I want to fully understand my body so that I have a greater chance at keeping the weight off. I am reading an amazing book that fully supports how we are eating -- Gary Taubs, "Why We Get Fat". I highly recommend this book. I have also been trying to read as much as I can about the lower carb lifestyle. I want to be fully armed and ready when I phase off of IP. I came across the the author of the Hamptons Diet (another lower carb lifestyle), and he use to work for Atkins. He doesn't believe in subtracting any of the fiber from the total carbs. He says the carb count is the carb count. Jake, what are your thoughts?
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:33 AM   #34  
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:22 AM   #35  
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I love all this information! I want to fully understand my body so that I have a greater chance at keeping the weight off. I am reading an amazing book that fully supports how we are eating -- Gary Taubs, "Why We Get Fat". I highly recommend this book. I have also been trying to read as much as I can about the lower carb lifestyle. I want to be fully armed and ready when I phase off of IP. I came across the the author of the Hamptons Diet (another lower carb lifestyle), and he use to work for Atkins. He doesn't believe in subtracting any of the fiber from the total carbs. He says the carb count is the carb count. Jake, what are your thoughts?
I don't believe carb counting is even part of IP. I think they want us to just follow the sheet and not get any further involved in the "diet" then that.
Personally, I look to "optimize" and get a more efficient running engine from it all...

I go by the Atkins standard where carbs and Ketosis are concerned because that is how I lost my 1st 100 pounds.

I subtract fiber. BUT you have to make sure it is insoluble fiber. If you don't know, then you cannot subtract it.

Meaning, Total carbs minus fiber =net carbs. I keep Net carbs per day under 20g (like when I did Atkins). I look for "0" added sugars, I select veggies with between 0 and 2 sugars only...I avoid protein bars or added carbs, and I avoid sugar alcohols. Then I know I have a great ketosis going and my weight loss will have a better chance.

In Atkins you also subtract Sugar Alcohols to get net carbs. I do NOT consume sugar alcohols as they stall me stone cold and that scale will not move down at all. There are a variety of sugar alcohols being used and some will effect you more then others (by converting to glucose)...so again, it is an individual thing to see if you can use them safely and not have weight loss effected.

Atkins phase 1: Induction used to be so "pure" with whole foods only, no bars allowed etc...then the company had financial problems and they redesigned phase 1...and now you can have all types of bars etc...why? Because the company decided so, to sell more products.

Anyone reading this who is an "old Atkins Induction person" will know exactly what I mean. Just a shame.

Anyway...total carbs minus insoluble fiber, minus (certain)sugar alcohols=NET carbs (Atkins Diet)

My Version: total carbs minus insoluble fiber=NET carbs

The best way to optimize the plan regarding sugar alcohols is to either have none at all (thats what I do), or learn which you can have with no negative effect.

Have a great day!
Jake

Last edited by mammoth357; 07-17-2012 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:49 AM   #36  
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This has been a very informative discussion. Thanks to Jake and others who have put so much thought into the topic of "veggies." I have learned a great deal and will adjust my veggie intake accordingly. I will definitely try switching my broccoli out for more spinach. What do I have to lose? Oh yeah, POUNDS!

Thanks so much for sharing this information in a clear and convincing way.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #37  
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I have found I do best under 20g carb a day...but thats ME. I was on Atkins induction for over a year (under 20 carbs a day) and lost 100 pounds. I know ketosis well. Whether I consumed 10g carb a day or the 20g a day did not matter to my weight loss. But if I had a day and consumed 40g carbs it knocked me out of ketosis and I had to waste 3 days to get back in, Again, those are MY numbers which I learned about myself over time.

You also need to find out about YOU. Meaning, do certain foods stall you...and avoid them. I know sugar alcohols will do that to me as will tomatoes (which I LOVE)...so I don't have any. etc. Its a learning process and very individual.
This is a very important point. The key is to watch carefully what happens to YOUR body.

I am old enough to have been on every diet known to man at least three times. What is very evident is that I am super carb sensitive so my natural inclination was Atkins, Dukan etc. I did fine and lost weight rapidly on the first part of these plans but soon would plateau. So i would move to the second stage where carbs would be slowly reintroduced and in the blink of an eye all the weight would be back on.

I have been maintaining on IP since the end of Feb without too much difficulty.

This is the only plan I have been able to maintain on and I know it is because it steadily allows small and controlled amount of carbs and my body learned how to handle them. I have had to watch carefully how I added carbs back in maintenance to keep this balance going.

If I had one of the many coaches who second guess the program and eliminate things from the protocol sheet I know my weight would have bounced right back to what it was once I went to maintenance.

This is the first time in 50 years of dieting that I feel confident about maintaining. I think adjusting to a wide variety of veggies is a very important step to healthy life long eating.
We have to let go of the mindsets we carry from all the other approaches we tried in the past.

Pat

Last edited by patns; 07-17-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:52 PM   #38  
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Hello,

I just converted your data into a table to be visually easier to compare while waiting for an answer
This is super helpful! Thanks!!
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:55 PM   #39  
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This is a very important point. The key is to watch carefully what happens to YOUR body.

I have been maintaining on IP since the end of Feb without too much difficulty.

This is the only plan I have been able to maintain on and I know it is because it steadily allows small and controlled amount of carbs and my body learned how to handle them. I have had to watch carefully how I added carbs back in maintenance to keep this balance going.

If I had one of the many coaches who second guess the program and eliminate things from the protocol sheet I know my weight would have bounced right back to what it was once I went to maintenance.

This is the first time in 50 years of dieting that I feel confident about maintaining. I think adjusting to a wide variety of veggies is a very important step to healthy life long eating.
We have to let go of the mindsets we carry from all the other approaches we tried in the past.

Pat
Hi Pat...CONGRATS on your maintenance! Awesome!
No one here, and especially me, is suggesting to forego the IP master sheet for phase 1...and I fully agree about a variety of veggies being important to healthy life long eating...but while I am not on maintenance and still so far from goal, I prefer personally to take advantage of the best those veggies have to offer me...as to maintaining a stable ketosis to maximize my weight loss.
I disagree that we should let go of mindsets from other programs and I believe we carry what we have learned further as we progress. The ketosis of the IP diet is the exact same ketosis of Atkins diet...there is no difference.
Going one further, IP diet is simply Atkins done "low-fat" and therefore very low calories.
In its simplest form, the reasons this diet works and does so fast, is due to abnormally low caloric intake and of course ketosis. Plain and simple. It is not the "shakes, bars, puddings, etc"...those are just a way for IP to make money, and thats fine....but let there be no doubt that a large mammal on 700-800 calories a day WILL lose weight quicker then say 2000 calories a day, unless you go into starvation mode and get "lock-out" of course.

Best of luck to you on your maintenance...can't wait to be there myself!
Awesome job!
Cheers
Jake
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