Hello everyone. I am happily progressing in Phase 2 and just saw the coach/dietician yesterday to discuss Phases 3 and 4. I have Type II diabetes and have been able to lose 40 pounds, 10 inches around my waist, and totally go off the 4 insulin shots I was on!
However....The Phase 3 information I was given is different than the standards that are posted on this thread. Instead of the "big breakfast", the extra carbs and milk are distributed throughout the day rather evenly. Then phase 4 is the same except at each meal the carb servings are 1-2 serving rather than 1 or a milk.
Now, I understand why they have done this, as this is pretty standard for dieticians to try to "smooth out" blood sugar/insulin rises throughout the day. BUT what worries me is if this well mess up the "waking up" process of my pancreas. I also resent them just passing this to me as is this was the standard without explaining why they modified it and allowing me to question it!
Has anyone out there gone thru something like this? What ideas does everyone have about altering these phases like this? I just want to do this in such a way that I have not wasted the last 4 months being faithful to the diet!!
If anyone is interested I can try to scan these sheets and post if someone has time to look at them and comment. Thanks so much!!
I would let her know you have friends who've done the phase 3 and question her anyway.
YOU NEED to understand. She should provide you the answers if you can offer the question.
It may be that they are trying to give little bursts to the pancreas to cause smaller insulin spikes (still wakes things up) and prevent rebound which is common in some diabetics. Too much insulin, drop in blood sugar, increase glucose to correct, give another medication... you know the cycle. By trying to create a natural leveling and then create a lifestyle that keeps things level you may still get the weight loss benefit AND the long term medication reduction.
ASK! If you don't get an answer let me know, I will ask some of the people I know who are really informed.
I would let her know you have friends who've done the phase 3 and question her anyway.
YOU NEED to understand. She should provide you the answers if you can offer the question.
It may be that they are trying to give little bursts to the pancreas to cause smaller insulin spikes (still wakes things up) and prevent rebound which is common in some diabetics. Too much insulin, drop in blood sugar, increase glucose to correct, give another medication... you know the cycle. By trying to create a natural leveling and then create a lifestyle that keeps things level you may still get the weight loss benefit AND the long term medication reduction.
ASK! If you don't get an answer let me know, I will ask some of the people I know who are really informed.
Thanks so much for your response, Carla! I did just talk to this dietician/diabetes educator and it is much as I expected. They do not believe Dr. Tran's theory of using the big breakfast as part of "resetting" the pancreas. They believe the pancreas has been rested, and we should not over-tax the Type II diabetic's pancreas. Plus, for many diabetics, they tend to be more insulin-resistant in the mornings, according to these folks. Also the serving sizes of carbs listed don't agree with what most diabetics/dieticians use for serving sizes, and she considers the cheeses listed "unhealthy" fats because they are saturated fats. She did give me her "blessings" to try the original Phase 3 while I watch my blood sugars.
I am torn. I really want to do this as well as possible for my health, and so I don't "mess up" waking up my pancreas. Further ideas, anyone????
Thanks so much for your response, Carla! I did just talk to this dietician/diabetes educator and it is much as I expected. They do not believe Dr. Tran's theory of using the big breakfast as part of "resetting" the pancreas. They believe the pancreas has been rested, and we should not over-tax the Type II diabetic's pancreas. Plus, for many diabetics, they tend to be more insulin-resistant in the mornings, according to these folks. Also the serving sizes of carbs listed don't agree with what most diabetics/dieticians use for serving sizes, and she considers the cheeses listed "unhealthy" fats because they are saturated fats. She did give me her "blessings" to try the original Phase 3 while I watch my blood sugars.
I am torn. I really want to do this as well as possible for my health, and so I don't "mess up" waking up my pancreas. Further ideas, anyone????
Thanks for listening,
Deb
I am glad you spoke with her! Let's look at this a bit.
IF you are monitoring your blood sugars will you be able to see a spike in glucose that does not resolve in a normal period of time. Wouldn't that indicate that you are not utilizing insulin properly (not making enough or resistant to it)?
If post meal your glucose levels drop and keep dropping wouldn't that indicate your pancreas was still OVER producing insulin thus creating a sugar low despite the added carbs?
If you did that for even a day or two, wouldn't you be able to switch over to her suggested plan and compare which daily process works best for your body?
My thought is, if you are willing to "prick" frequently for a week you should be able to see the initial impact.
Ideally, you have rested your pancreas and corrected a problem. Will it permanently correct diabetes? I haven't heard a yes or no on that. It will significantly help manage it and offer a more normal (albeit probably not totally normal) way of life. After all, some of us will walk away from this diet learning how to better care for a body with a unique design or design flaw. We don't change our DNA is what I took away. What we gain is the ability to sort of start over and treat our body better to avoid greater issues in the future and control our weight.
What are the worst things that happen?
You try to go off and the symptoms of diabetes return and you go back on medicine. YOU KNOW HOW TO FIX THAT, bring the diet back to something more similar to what you've been doing.
Next, you can do the phase 3 for awhile but, then see sugar fluctuations or an increased need for meds. Fix that by going back to phase 1 for a bit, then trying a different level of carbs. You many not be as tolerant as others. ALTERNATIVELY, this could be the point where you try the dieticians approach.
Can you think of any other possibilities?
As I see it, you can only know how much success you've attained when you test yourself.
Also, you could ease into your big breakfast to see how you tolerate carbs and at what point you are not responding as you like.
If so, then you are already keeping your pancreas a bit more awake then we are and, you will get the boost by making the modifications to breakfast BUT, it will be a little less dramatic than for those of us not making group choices already.
After reviewing the sheets I am wondering what is happening for you because, it appears that IP has a phase3 alternative protocol that does basically give you the big breakfast but, keeps the group choices at lunch and dinner to level out the day?
Were you given that option? Would having that resolve some of your concerns and your dieticians?
Last edited by showgirlaz; 01-20-2011 at 06:51 PM.
I am glad you spoke with her! Let's look at this a bit.
IF you are monitoring your blood sugars will you be able to see a spike in glucose that does not resolve in a normal period of time. Wouldn't that indicate that you are not utilizing insulin properly (not making enough or resistant to it)?
If post meal your glucose levels drop and keep dropping wouldn't that indicate your pancreas was still OVER producing insulin thus creating a sugar low despite the added carbs?
If you did that for even a day or two, wouldn't you be able to switch over to her suggested plan and compare which daily process works best for your body?
My thought is, if you are willing to "prick" frequently for a week you should be able to see the initial impact.
Yes, I was planning on doing this anyway. Probably every 2 hours for a few days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by showgirlaz
Ideally, you have rested your pancreas and corrected a problem. Will it permanently correct diabetes? I haven't heard a yes or no on that. It will significantly help manage it and offer a more normal (albeit probably not totally normal) way of life. After all, some of us will walk away from this diet learning how to better care for a body with a unique design or design flaw. We don't change our DNA is what I took away. What we gain is the ability to sort of start over and treat our body better to avoid greater issues in the future and control our weight.
I agree. I have always known that I may not respond like others who are more "normal" carb metabolizers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by showgirlaz
What are the worst things that happen?
You try to go off and the symptoms of diabetes return and you go back on medicine. YOU KNOW HOW TO FIX THAT, bring the diet back to something more similar to what you've been doing.
Next, you can do the phase 3 for awhile but, then see sugar fluctuations or an increased need for meds. Fix that by going back to phase 1 for a bit, then trying a different level of carbs. You many not be as tolerant as others. ALTERNATIVELY, this could be the point where you try the dieticians approach.
Yes, and the dietician was agreeable to me trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by showgirlaz
Can you think of any other possibilities?
As I see it, you can only know how much success you've attained when you test yourself.
Also, you could ease into your big breakfast to see how you tolerate carbs and at what point you are not responding as you like.
No. We discussed it at the beginning of Phase 1, but I felt strongly that I would tolerate the low-carb phase well, so that was fine with her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by showgirlaz
If so, then you are already keeping your pancreas a bit more awake then we are and, you will get the boost by making the modifications to breakfast BUT, it will be a little less dramatic than for those of us not making group choices already.
No, not at all. And I think the explanations make sense with what I understand about diabetes/insulin resistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by showgirlaz
After reviewing the sheets I am wondering what is happening for you because, it appears that IP has a phase3 alternative protocol that does basically give you the big breakfast but, keeps the group choices at lunch and dinner to level out the day?
Their sheets are more restrictive than the alternative phase 3 protocol! So again, I am concerned that my pancreas will not be stimulated correctly....and that my progress will be set back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by showgirlaz
Were you given that option? Would having that resolve some of your concerns and your dieticians?
I was not given that option.
After reading the Phase 3 explanation, I am feeling more sure that I will try the standard Phase 3 first, checking blood sugars and writing in my food diary. I need to do this anyway, as every diabetic finds that they react differently to individual foods than another person with diabetes. I will also be quite careful that I use whole grains/low glycemic fruits. Any other suggestions?
After reading the Phase 3 explanation, I am feeling more sure that I will try the standard Phase 3 first, checking blood sugars and writing in my food diary. I need to do this anyway, as every diabetic finds that they react differently to individual foods than another person with diabetes. I will also be quite careful that I use whole grains/low glycemic fruits. Any other suggestions?
Thanks so much for helping me think this through!
You are welcome!
If you did well with no major carbs, I think you can do well with this too!
I was still thinking about this... if you find that the major carb breakfast of phase 3 is too much of a shock, could you try to do alternative phase 3 breakfast for a few days then go back to a normal phase 3. It would allow you to see how your body does with some carbs and then you can increase them. Although, maybe that would defeat the whole phase 3 explanation for you? Not sure.
If you did well with no major carbs, I think you can do well with this too!
I was still thinking about this... if you find that the major carb breakfast of phase 3 is too much of a shock, could you try to do alternative phase 3 breakfast for a few days then go back to a normal phase 3. It would allow you to see how your body does with some carbs and then you can increase them. Although, maybe that would defeat the whole phase 3 explanation for you? Not sure.
Yes, that is another option. But to quote:
"The Physiological Principle behind Phase 3
As stated before, we are going to "wake‐up the pancreas" and train it to produce the correct amount of insulin. To do this we are going to eat our “carb‐load" only during the morning meal. It is extremely important that this breakfast is consumed at one sitting! That is do not eat your eggs and fruit at breakfast and take your yogurt to the office to have as a ten o'clock snack. All of the food that is on your breakfast menu MUST be consumed at breakfast! The reason for this is we only want insulin to be secreted once a day. After spiking, the insulin levels will fall and if we do not eat any other carbohydrates, as the blood sugar drops, glucagon and other substances (like nor ‐epinephrine) will be produced and these will enhance "catabolism" (the breakdown of fats, proteins and glycogen). In other words we are enhancing the "burning phase of metabolism", whereas insulin promotes "anabolism"...the storage of nutrients. This is how we are going to ramp up the dieter's calorie burning capacity. Also we only want the cells to "see insulin" once a day so as to prevent them from reverting to insulin resistance. This is especially important in those persons who were Type II diabetics or the ones with poor blood sugar control (really insulin resistant). This is why so many other diets fail after the weight loss phase; they don't give the body time to adjust to the sudden increase of food."
I know from previous testing that I produce plenty of insulin....my cells are just super resistant, so I think the big breakfast and one insulin surge a day is important. Plus we know that the addition of either a fat or a protein to carbs slows the absorption of the carbs, so the blood sugar rise is not as sharp. I guess whether or not I tolerate the big breakfast or a smaller big breakfast will remain to be seen!
"The Physiological Principle behind Phase 3 Also we only want the cells to "see insulin" once a day so as to prevent them from reverting to insulin resistance. This is especially important in those persons who were Type II diabetics or the ones with poor blood sugar control (really insulin resistant). This is why so many other diets fail after the weight loss phase; they don't give the body time to adjust to the sudden increase of food."
I know from previous testing that I produce plenty of insulin....my cells are just super resistant, so I think the big breakfast and one insulin surge a day is important. Plus we know that the addition of either a fat or a protein to carbs slows the absorption of the carbs, so the blood sugar rise is not as sharp. I guess whether or not I tolerate the big breakfast or a smaller big breakfast will remain to be seen!
I wish you so much success with this! I agree with what you highlighted and I understand your logic.
I wonder how IP justified the alternative phase 3 protocol given the statement you just provided? HMMM.
Different Phase 3?
I also resent them just passing this to me as is this was the standard without explaining why they modified it and allowing me to question it! 
