CindySunshine thanks for bringing that up. Before I started IE blaming "food addiction" was very important to me, most likely because it helped ease my guilt over eating. I thought food had addictive properties that I could not overcome. Needless to say, food does have chemical properties so it's not far fetched. Unfortunately this belief made me continuously place blame and is not helpful in addressing MY true problem which is overeating and eating for emotional stress relief and certainly does nothing to alleviate my eating disorder. I wasn't searching for an internal way to solve my problems, it's much much easier to stand on a soap box and blame the government, the food industry, and entire food groups. And doing so puts one in such an agitated state of mind and fear that it becomes absolutely necessary to swear things off. No more salt! No more sugar! No more corn! No more meat! Or whatever you preferred "bad" food is. You almost have to become a zealot to avoid it and I did so for a long time. Now I finally calm, I can be in the same room with a box of cookies for days and not feel like the sugar is evil, or that it's calling my name, or that the sugar industry is trying to make me addicted to it or that I have to get rid of it. I feel peaceful, calm, and in the driver's seat.
Food addiction is the very exact topic I want to speak to my nutritional therapist about today. I want to understand it better and I hope I can contribute more to this discussion later. But basically I struggle with my relationship to carbs but I do not think I am addicted to food. I am addicted to a cycle of eating to alleviate stress and then feeling guilty about it.
For any of you that came off a VLCD did you experience any guilt when allowing yourself to eat more?
Today really was a good day for IE, I only ate when I was hungry and I stopped when I was satisfited - but I definitely ate a great deal more than I am used to eating, I didn't count calories or anything but if I was to ballpark I would say maybe around 2100ish. I know that I didn't overeat, but I just feel so darn guilty for letting myself "eat so much" I know that for my height and age and activity I logically probably burn way higher than that..(or at least I think I might?) But I wonder if any of you have tips on how to overcome this feeling?
Not sure what a VLCD is?
Koali, are you reading any IE books? I'm reading Overcoming Overeating right now and I've just read through a section in Part 3 of the book that talks about the role of guilt. There are many aspects to IE, allowing yourself to eat, mindful eating practices, enjoying food, listening to your hunger signals etc. The part that is most important is allowing yourself to eat without guilt. There is no such thing as having a good day of IE and then feeling guilt. The guilt cancels out the IE. IE is the opposite of guilt. The whole point of IE is to let go of the guilt. And that might mean several days of eating 4000 calories, or it might mean an entire day of eating nothing but chocolate chip cookie dough. This is a lot easier said than done and I'm getting a handle on it now, but I still struggle so I understand.
If you're anything like me, you overeat for reasons other than hunger. For me that's stress. It is a cycle of deflecting stress. This is my cycle: I start to feel an uncomfortable feeling, something that I do not wish to feel. I immediately perceive this as hunger and reach for food. While I eat I enter a different consciousness. At the end I feel guilt and I berate myself with negative thoughts "I'm so fat" "I'm so weak" "why can't I resist the temptation" blah blah blah. When this cycle happens every day for years and years it's easy to assume that my problem is FOOD or FAT and so I focus on dieting and losing weight because I think that's my problem. NO. My real problem is that I continuously skirt around the issues that really bother me, the stress I'm trying to eat away, the uncomfortable situation that is keeping me up at nights, the fight I had with my mother, the work meeting that I'm nervous for, etc etc etc.
So this cycle Uncomfortable feeling -->Hunger---Overeating-->Guilt Is a chain reaction that can be broken. Tackle the guilt first. If you feel the guilt then you have completed the chain reaction. If you take away the guilt the chain is broken, and the overeating is just dangling there, completely meaningless with no purpose and nowhere to go. This is what's happening to me now. Now that I've relieved myself of the guilt my binging has reduced at least 90% I wish I knew how, I just know that it works.
Overcoming Overeating is really good about explaining this guilt thing. Read it!
If you really understood that eating an appropriate amount of calories would not cause you to gain weight then you would not feel guilty. But it seems you still don't really believe that eating more will help you.
You probably need to learn more about nutrition and how the body works.
This is not helpful in terms of IE. Further more koalifornia grew up in a house where nutrition and how the body works was pushed on her from a young age so it's definitely not the case that she doesn't know about it, I'm willing to bet much more than any of us here. The calorie game is simple enough. This is not how we go about addressing guilt in IE.
So your idea is tackle the guilt but she's asking you how do you tackle the guilt and all you've said is tackle the guilt. Not very helpful either i would think.
I must say usually try to avoid this sort of tone when responding to posts on this forum respond but you are getting up my nose a bit with your unwarranted sense of superiority and self righteousness as well as sarcasm and so on that comes across in numerous posts you've made to me.
I don't want to give you a panic attack or anything but i think you should get off your high and mighty horse for a bit. I am also an emotional eater. Only i've found a different way to resolve my eating issues.
My post above was not anti IE. And i didn't take a superior tone with the poster. But you seem to have projected such a tone onto my post and now you think its ok to tell me "that's not helpful". I still have to contend that if she doesn't properly understand the processes, guilt from overeating will result.
Anyway i'm not going to come back here and read what else you have to say because i don't think a lot of to and fro debate here is helpful. I just am a bit fed up with your misguided sense of superiority.
Pattience I think you are reading more into Wannabe's post than what is there. It can be easy to mistake what people are saying on a message board because you don't have things like vocal tone and body language to create a more robust understanding. I don't think Wannabe was coming at you from a place of superiority. We know that koala is struggling (like many of us) from too much information and pressure to have a perfect diet. I know you're trying to be helpful but you may not have all the information because you haven't read all of Koala's posts. She doesn't need to learn any more about nutrition, and it wouldn't be helpful for her to do so at this point. That's all Wannabe was saying.
Guilt is a big ugly word and it's hard to deal with. At this point in my struggle I've given up trying to *not feel* guilt. I just anticipate it, acknowledge it, and let it go. This morning I ate a leftover piece of cake for breakfast. I was starving and it sounded good. I knew that I would feel guilty about it. I ate the cake slowly and enjoyed it. I felt the guilt. I said to myself "yes, I feel guilty for eating this but I have no reason to. I was hungry and I ate cake. It tasted delicious." then I let it go.
I didn't try to stop feeling guilty. I didn't drive the guilt down deep. I felt it, reflected on its presence, and then moved on. The guilt is gone now. All I have is a lingering feeling of having a treat- "hehehe, I got to eat something delicious for breakfast." It is a joyful feeling and a freeing one.
For the record VLCD= very low carb diet. Yes, I feel guilty eating carbs. I also was oil free vegan so I feel guilty eating fat and meat. There are very few foods that I don't feel guilty eating. Alot of it is based on social pressure, too. I live in a very health-conscious part of the country and my workplace is full of people who like to "eat clean". I'm going the opposite direction- I'm trying to feel good about eating cake and top ramen. A delicious challenge!
Wannabee, Locke, and Cindy, thank you so much for the support that you have shown me. Sorry I didn't define VLCD - it's a "very low calorie diet". I was eating 1200 and under a lot for the past few months, which I know was way less than I should be.
Wannabee I appreciate your reply! You're right - I do know a ton about nutrition..I grew up learning about hydrogenated oils, fat grams.. calories carbs, artificial sweeteners, exercise.. literally EVERYTHING nutrition or exercise related. So I don't think that feeling guilty comes from a lack of knowledge like Pattience was thinking, but rather too much of it..
I think that the reason I gained weight (which was what prompted me to diet) was that I was stressed a lot during college applications and I turned to food instead of dealing with my emotions. In fact, if I had stopped eating for reasons other than hunger I'm sure I would've lost my extra weight naturally. But I guess that's a lesson learned and at least I won't spend the rest of my life on the diet train if I learn IE now!
I will look into the book you suggested wannabee, it sounds like a good read. I think you guys are right about just acknowledging that feeling guilty about eating is not rational, and that it's a natural thing for people to do in order to survive! I'll just try to push the "guilty" feelings out of my mind by realizing that I REALLY do not need to feel bad about nourishing my own body!
At the risk of being an over zealous poster I came across this and it really resonates with me. It belongs on that food is pleasure post wannabe made but I like it a lot. For me at least not eating between meals so you are hungry and then you can neatly apply IE principles. I worked with a team in Brussels and many of them were French, little slim things men and women and they really lived like this. The site which I am going to read a number of things on is mindbodygreen .com
10 Eating Rules French Children Know (But Most Americans Don't)
Comments BY REBECA PLANTIER
JANUARY 14, 2014 1:00 PM EST
How the French eat, age, dress, raise their children and live in general is a real talking point these days. So, as an American mother of three half-French kids, I figured I'd add my two cents to the conversation.
I lived in France before becoming a parent, but eventually it was my kids who taught me everything I need to know about eating like a French person: Eating, and staying slim and healthy, isn't just about what you eat, but also how, when and why. Yes, French people enjoy junk food occasionally, and sometimes they eat between meals, but people don’t just let loose every day. There's a code of conduct for food, for big people and little ones alike. Here, in 10 quick life lessons, is what my kids taught me about food.
1. Eat, but not all day long.
Three meals a day, plus the children’s traditional after-school “gouter,” or snack, which might be a pain au chocolat, fruit or applesauce.
When mealtimes roll around, you eat with real pleasure because you’re hungry.
2. Eat real foods and generous portions.
Consuming three meals a day without grazing in between means you can eat well when you sit down at the table — and that includes a starter, main course, cheese and dessert. Portions are generous without going overboard. An example of yesterday’s lunch menu:
Starter course: Lentil salad
Main course: Roasted chicken, green beans
Cheese course: Vanilla yogurt
Dessert: Apple and orange slices … and that was in the public school cafeteria.
3. Choose water.
Generally speaking, the French do not drink their calories. At mealtimes, water (whether still or sparkling) is the drink of choice. Adults might opt for a glass or two of wine, but the glasses aren't the size of fishbowls.
4. Sit down.
It’s rare to see people eating while walking or shopping. There are no cup holders on caddies, or even in most cars. You eat at the table, not in front of the TV or computer screen, then you leave the table and do something else.
5. Eat lighter at night.
Lunchtime is the main event. Dinner is usually light: soups, salads, an omelet, a simple pasta dish. Dessert might be a yogurt or fruit. And you sleep so much better.
6. When the kitchen closes, it's CLOSED.
No grazing after dinner.
7. Know your limit, then stop.
Set eating times help you tune in to when you are really hungry or full.
8. Taste your food, guess the ingredients.
The French don’t just like to eat fabulous food and drink wonderful wine, they love to talk about it. Discussing how something tastes, its ingredients and how it was made heightens awareness; children love to join the conversation. They learn about real food and where it comes from.
9. Get cooking!
Along with an interest in ingredients comes an interest in the actual process of cooking food. With a little coaching, my 2-year-old peeled the apples she picked with her class and happily joined in making a tart. Children love helping put fresh vegetables or pasta into the pot, or making a chocolate cake from scratch. Being part of the process heightens appreciation, and builds good habits for life.
10. Eating well is not a sin; it's a pleasure.
Eating great food — no matter how simple or how elaborate — is one of life’s great pleasures, not an endless guilt trip. Especially when it's in moderation. Once, when we were visiting family in the US, a waitress asked my French husband if he was “done working on that,” referring to his plate of food. His reply: “Eating is a pleasure, mademoiselle, not work!”
Last edited by CindySunshine; 04-15-2014 at 09:36 PM.
Koali, I just wanted to add that LOTS of people gain the infamous freshman 15. I think it's a combination of breaking free of previous restrictions of all forms (and this would be heightened for you with your home background so focused on food and exercise rules), stress, and a generally unhealthy set of food choices kids in droves eat pizza at night, often lots of alcohol, and when I went to school the dorm food was pretty bad except for the bread and ice cream desserts. I ate many many big squares of cornbread!
IE is not "just eating". Our biology tells us to EAT when food is available and so overeating is well, intuitive. What we learn to do is to use a few guidelines to resist and find a better way to eat.
So it's not like your coping with food is unusual at all.
Koali i think you're on the right track concerning dieting, don't follow in our footsteps. Looking back at my life I was happiest and thinnest when I wasn't weighing myself, counting calories, and eating everything I wanted. It wasn't until I started hankering down on forced nutritional reading and dieting that the weight started to pile on. I was never skinny, but I remember not even knowing what I weighed when I was getting married or when I graduated from college or when I got my first job. For a long time I thought I was in denial but in reality I was just content. I wish I could go back to the time when I didn't know what a carb is, or a calorie. You can't unlearn these things but you can make peace with them.
Guilt is a tricky sucker. I don't know if my reply was helpful to you in terms of how to deal with guilt, I'm just learning how to deal with it myself. Simply knowing that I have to get rid of it and knowing that it's the one thing that's keeping me back is enough to tackle it. I tackle it the good old fashioned way, by stopping it in its tracks. It's theatrical at first like I'm just going through the motions but over time it's gotten much easier. I'm not like Locke, I don't let it just happen, I did at first as I was just curiously observing my guilt but now I'm in attack mode. Everytime I start to feel guilt I stop and counter it with a completely opposite thought. I don't know how or why but it works.
CindySunshine that's an awesome list, boy do we love the French around here lol. Ou la la!
I spoke to my nutritional therapist yesterday about food addiction. She said the body of research on food addiction is very small and it's incredibly difficult to conduct controlled studies. Basically, it's a non issue for her. I'm also exploring my fixed ideas about carbs and she debunks it too. I told her that I really believe that if I lowered my carb intake I would lose weight and she said while that may be true for a while it's unsustainable. She went on to say that in all the years she's been in her profession she has yet to meet someone on a low carb diet that is able to sustain it lifelong and that the intent of low-carbing keeps one in a continual diet mind set.
Also with my nutritional therapist we reviewed my goals and it put things into perspective. I still make a lot of judgements on what I eat. Thankfully the guilt is going down but I do have a hard time critiquing my meals without getting negative. So I laid out my nutritional goals to her and they were this:
- eat vegetables at every meal (to which she responded that it's an unrealistic and unecessary goal, that if I eat vegetables at some meals then it should be enough.
- eat less carbs (to which she replied WHY!?? and how it is necessary for me to eat enough carbs to sustain my seratonin levels and keep me out of falling into depressive episodes like before)
- think about food less (to which she replied that we're getting there and it's an inevitable part of the process)
- to lose weight (to which she replied "don't focus on weight loss, that will keep you in the diet mind set and derail you")
- to crave healthy foods (to which she said "based on your meals you already do that")
Anyway, it was a good session and it seems I've come a lot farther than I allowed myself to hope for. I don't like to feel smug but I have gotten a lot better and the significant decrease of my binging is proof of that. What she said that made me very hopeful is that I am on my way to curing my eating disorder, that it can be done, that she's witnessed many many women with different forms of eating disorders be cured by this.
Now my entire focus needs to be off weight loss and completely centered around making each meal satisfying, and allowing myself to feel satisfied by it. It's a nice change to think of food this way.
I told her that I really believe that if I lowered my carb intake I would lose weight and she said while that may be true for a while it's unsustainable. She went on to say that in all the years she's been in her profession she has yet to meet someone on a low carb diet that is able to sustain it lifelong and that the intent of low-carbing keeps one in a continual diet mind set.
I totally agree with this. I've personally known several people who've lost a lot of weight on low-carb, and they have all gained it back. It is such a difficult WOE to maintain, in my opinion.
It sounds as if this nutritionist truly understands IE. I am so glad you are able to meet with her, and I appreciate your sharing all of this with us. It is so helpful.
I have a friend who has lost about 50 pounds on Adkins and she has kept it off. She diligently weighs herself everyday and is constantly fighting 5-10 pounds. She continually goes back on induction and despite walking a huge amount she fights it ALL THE TIME. She lives in constant fear of her carb sensitivity and all in all it sure is not a mode I would have any desire to emulate.
Sorry I didn't define VLCD - it's a "very low calorie diet". I was eating 1200 and under a lot for the past few months, which I know was way less than I should be.
