Locke for what it's worth, I had too much wine last night as well. I argued with myself on going out and ended up staying home with wine. It's ok. It was such a gorgeous evening here, too, I really felt like I should go out and DO something.
Good stuff on the donut. It's amazing the sorts of foods I find myself not enjoying once I actually really taste them. I have had the same experience with "light" foods. Wednesday night I had a chicken breast and steamed vegetables. It's what I was craving. When I finished the portion that I had I could feel that my stomach was full from the vegetables but I wasn't satisfied. I ate more veggies and still wasn't quite satisfied. I stopped eating because my stomach was full (it felt bloated) but I was still hungry. It was not a good experience. I guess lighter foods are better for people who want to feel very full for not so many calories- I'm the opposite. I like not feeling anything in my stomach.
Locke, I think you're right on the money! When I was dieting for the last year, eating a TON of vegetables was my go-to because I wanted to "feel full" on the least amount of calories that I could. So I would stuff myself with mushrooms and lettuce and tell myself I was satisfied and full even though my stomach would be bloated and I really didn't feel satisfied at all.
I think it's really interesting that the stuffed feeling I got from eating a lot of vegetables really doesn't make me happy anymore. I'd much rather eat the food I really want, stop when I'm satisfied/ satiated and be done at that. After over a year of looking up low cal recipes to keep me full (I have over 50 bookmarked on my computer -a sign that I was getting truly food obsessed! lol) I am SHOCKED to learn that I don't even enjoy that stuffed feeling at all!
Feeling satisfied and satiated with the food I want is so much better than stuffing myself full of rice cakes and egg whites and being bloated and unsatisfied!
I've been re-reading The Overfed Head, and I am always amazed at how I can manage to get new insights each time I do. No doubt this is because as I continue on this journey more and more things become obvious about my eating patterns, so something that didn't strike me as particularly important when I read it before really stands out to me now.
I also love the term he uses to describe those who eat for reasons other than hunger - inaccurate eaters. It's a perfect description. I now find myself actually thinking about this term if I am thinking about eating something & know that I'm not really hungry.
It's a very powerful word for me, for some reason. And effective.
I don't recall the term inacurate eaters from that book SM but I do need to go back and reread it. I'm still on OO and then plan to move on to Intuitive Eating as has been suggested by my nutritional therapist.
You know I have reread Intuitive Eating at least a half dozen times over the years and I always get something new out of it. I may need to read Overfed Head again, too.
I have a short food tale to relate. First off I put together ingredients on hand for a simple prep for my snap peas today. I had a leftover chicken breast and I had been at the beach took a long walk and I was clearly hungry decided to come home and that chicken (I used Ina Garten's Lemon chicken in the oven recipe) was high on my brain as what I wanted to eat. While it was heating, I did a quick parboil on this peas just until they turned bright green and dumped them into ice water and let them get nice and cold. I had a container of plain yogurt that I turned into a simple dip/sauce adding lemon juice and rind, a bit of milk, kosher salt and fresh pepper liberally. So I had the chicken, those peas with a dollop of the yogurt, and a big pile of watermelon. It was so darn colorful and appealing, cool and just right after the beach, yum! Satisfying at many levels and healthy, too.
I went to a party tonight and was quite reasonable with the appetizer spread after my most satisfying lunch earlier. So now I sit with my decaf coffee feeling very fine.
That's a lovely food tale CindySunshine. I'm so jealous you went to the beach, I only wish I lived in a warmer climate. I bought a handful of fresh peas myself yesterday. I eat peas everyday, from the freezer. Can't have a salad without them actually. Fresh peas are also great dexterity practice for my 2yr old, I make him get all the little peas out and he loves eating them too.
I'm glad there's a nice handful of people here who are doing IE. The rest of the forum can be a little depressing. I'm so sad to watch people yoyo and blame themselves. In the past whenever I heard the term "diets don't work" I always thought it was because I couldn't stick to it, because I never really gave diets a chance. So I can imagine that other people feel that way too.
Yes I have been reading on the intuitive eating .org site, too, and find it mildly depressing as well. So many severely troubled people and sort of an aura of grey. Maybe it's just the way I'm reading it but I think finding the joy is part of the solution. And I simply don't want to establish a WOE that doesn't allow me to happily exist in society, enjoy food with family and friends and not be a burden of someone who needs to be cooked for specially.
I'm off to soak up the sunshine, head to the pool a few hours spend time in the shade with my book. I've read dozens of them this winter been nice. Let me tell you I earned this retirement though!
I have one more short food story, was invited over to dinner the other night and the food I just could not eat. The pasta was overcooked and the clam sauce which I normally love was not good at all. I picked at it and was rearranging on my plate to make it look like I had eaten more than I had (I was thinking about how anorexics do that as I did it lol) and finally just left it. When the call came out for key lime pie for dessert I most happily was "in"! But darn it I was not going to eat something I just didn't want.
Nothing wrong with being a troubled person, my heart goes out to anyone who struggles and I sometimes catch a glimpse of myself and think "wow she's a tortured soul." Like when I visited my nutritional therapist for the first time and she asked me "Do you thin people eat?" I said no. To my own ears it sounded so crazy, wow I'm really crazy aren't I?
Over the past few days I've received a few inquiries about IE through the forum and PM especially from posters that are curious or against IE. Those anti-IE say that IE is actually a diet with rules. What do the others here think of this? Is IE a bunch of rules? I guess I would have to agree that there are some rules going about it. But unlike the rules of a diet they are more about following your own instincts and being kind to yourself. Are you hungry? Eat. Are you full? Stop eating. Can you find a different way to deal with your anxiety? Sometimes. Is overeating the only solution for my anxiety this moment? Yes. Ok no problem, overeat - but acknowledge it and don't feel guilty about it. The rules are not so much rules but guiding lights into your own sensibility. And there are no consequences, that's the biggest difference.
I also see IE as a behavioral approach, not a diet or a set of rules set around food. I can control my behavior around food, but I can't control what food I crave to eat. People try way too hard to change their cravings.
Over the past few days I've received a few inquiries about IE through the forum and PM especially from posters that are curious or against IE. Those anti-IE say that IE is actually a diet with rules. What do the others here think of this? Is IE a bunch of rules? I guess I would have to agree that there are some rules going about it. But unlike the rules of a diet they are more about following your own instincts and being kind to yourself. Are you hungry? Eat. Are you full? Stop eating. Can you find a different way to deal with your anxiety? Sometimes. Is overeating the only solution for my anxiety this moment? Yes. Ok no problem, overeat - but acknowledge it and don't feel guilty about it. The rules are not so much rules but guiding lights into your own sensibility. And there are no consequences, that's the biggest difference.
Interesting, but not surprising, that you've received many inquiries, WBS. You are so articulate in your posts and have an ability to describe your own feelings and experiences in such a profound way that I'm sure it's drawn interest from many quarters. SO many people here (and elsewhere) describe their experiences with and sadness about their struggles with food. They just want peace. I know that's what finally brought me to IE.
I really do understand why some people feel like IE is just another diet. This is one of my big problems with the Intuitive Eating book by Tribole and Resch. Their list of 10 Principles just smacks of rules. They tell their readers to work on each one of them alone, and I think it's too much thinking about food, just as in a diet.
I've made the statement over and over again, and I've seen others say the same thing as well - it is EASY to make IE into another diet. And really, it's not surprising, because people come to IE from dieting and it's difficult to shake that mindset. Former dieters just feel they must be doing something unnatural in order to "follow" IE - and unfortunately I would say the great majority of people who initially try intuitive eating are not so much about making peace with food as they are with losing weight.
I certainly tried to make IE into a diet when I first tried it. But I've since learned that IE has to be individual for each and every person, and it is a journey that they must walk alone, for the most part. Most importantly they really need to let go of weight loss and get comfortable in their own skin.
Much of the IE literature I've read talks about getting rid of the scale, but one in particular - Susanna Dee - is really adamant about it. She truly believes that IE is unworkable if you insist on weighing yourself. She lost 60 lbs with intuitive eating. (She never calls it that, nor does Rob Stevens, who lost 140 lbs). Her book I've Tried it All! Now What?! does have rules, but I feel like she puts them forth to help you get back in touch with your body. So many people want some kind of "list" or "workbook" since that's what they are used to; perhaps that's why she's set up the book this way. But like Rob Stevens' The Overfed Head I appreciate her non-psychobabble, straightforward approach. Both of them talk about the diet industry's stranglehold on this country and how it has created so much havoc in so many people's lives.
The most important thing I can say about both of these authors is that they have been successful losing weight using the basic principles of IE. The other books always tell you to not worry about weight loss - and I agree - but I am convinced that once people REALLY understand what IE is all about, weight loss is just a natural occurrence. If someone is 100 lbs overweight and they go into this with a sincere wish to embrace the concept of never dieting again AND learning to listen - really, truly listen - to their body, they simply cannot help but lose weight naturally.
Those that say "I listened to my body and it told me to eat junk over and over again" are not listening to their body at all. To be successful one just HAS to face what it is that drives them to eat when they are not hungry. Many overeaters don't want to do that. They find it painful. But it is imperative to do so if they ever want a normal relationship with food.
I want to be just like I once was - a person who only thought about food when I got hungry. That's why I know IE works; I did it for 20 years. For people who have struggled with their weight their entire lives it has to be much more difficult, because they've never been that way - well, they were when they were babies, but some started having problems as young children and being overweight is the only way they've ever known themselves.
I do believe that IE can work for anyone - but ONLY if they approach it with the proper attitude and mindset. Unfortunately most people who have been sucked in by the diet culture and industry just aren't ready to believe in it or practice it successfully. And no amount of trying to explain it to them will have any real effect until they are truly DONE. WITH. DIETING.
I haven't been here in a while. I've had a real problem because I needed to eat a certain way to get my fasting blood sugar under control. I always believed that if I could get the blood sugar under control the rest would follow. I felt I needed to get this all together before coming back here.
I have learned that I am one who has to eat healthy which I've learned is my favorite way of eating, but that doesn't mean I can't eat other foods sometimes if and when I want it. Example, I eat hamburgers on lettuce no bun, but yesterday I wanted a small serving bag of chips with it and I ate it. That is when I found out that I could raise my carb count. Funny thing is that I don't want those foods that often and I am happy to say it didn't set off any cravings.
I learned a lot of this by reading the new Atkins book. I always thought it was a high fat/protein diet. I was amazed when I read it with an "open" mind that I learned that it is a high protein/high fiber way of eating. Just what I needed to get my fasting blood sugar and cravings under control. For the 1st time in about 7 or 8 yrs, it is normal and I find it to be sooooo easy. I was amazed when I read in the "rules" in the book and found they are similar to IE in the fact that it says...Eat only when you are hungry and eat as much as it takes to satisfy your hunger and stop.
This is just what I was looking for. The weight will come off more slowly, but at least I'm not gaining weight all the time like I was. I have absolutely no cravings.
I started out with the idea that I was going to do the 20 g Induction Phase, but that has changed. I couldn't deal the constipation. So I'm not doing Induction. I just want to eat high protein, high fiber and low carb when I am hungry. I believe this will fall in place.
When I was a child growing up I never ate unless I was hungry which wasn't all that often. I never had a weight problem until I got older and everyone insisted I had to eat 3 meals a day to be healthy. I know the reason most diets do not work for me is because they usually insist on 3 meals and 2 or 3 snacks of carby starches. That is deadly for me because I always gain weight when I have to eat that many meals of high carb foods. I even break out with rashes. I always knew I gained but didn't know the rashes were caused from the starchy carbs until I was first diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. Then I got on the roller coaster of their diets and didn't know why they didn't work for me and couldn't figure out how to get things back under control. It seemed like the only time a diet worked was when no one was around to tell me that I had to eat 3 meals and what foods I had to eat or couldn't eat. Then I would naturally crave the "forbidden" foods and go on the binges and things would get worse again.
There were times over the years when I lost weight because I ate only when I was hungry which usually was 1 or 2 meals a day and once in a while not often I might need a snack which was usually only a few bites. I finally learned that high carb eating makes me gain weight. I knew I needed to stop eating them, but I just couldn't get things under control for any real long length of time because all I wanted was what was the foods that were causing the problem.
I now know that those are the foods that causes me to have the tendency toward diabetes or insulin resistance. If I eat the starchy high carbs to often it causes me to crave more.
SouthernMaven I like that phrase you used from The Overfed Head... eating inaccurately. I think that describes what I'm trying to say. I don't believe there are any good/bad foods, but I do believe because of certain needs in some peoples bodies that there may be inaccurate foods or ways of eating them. I feel like I have finally learned to eat accurately for me and my body/system which has caused everything to fall in place for me. I've been working at trying to find a way to get my blood sugar under control since the day after Christmas, but I couldn't do it. I've been on this way of eating for about a week and my fasting blood sugar is in the normal range and it was 97 today.
I am so grateful that I now have a way of doing IE that works for me so that I don't have to eat when I'm not really hungry. I think there are people who do not have eating disorders or health problems like I have had to deal with who can probably do IE and eat anything they want and still lose weight. However, while I knew that at one time in my life that IE was the normal way that I ate when I was growing up, I had a problem getting it to work for me again. It worked for me the few times over the years that I was thin so I was sure there must be some way it would again. However, I also knew that I had to do it in a way that I could get the high blood sugar readings back down to normal and under control. I am so grateful that I have found it. Eating low carb, high protein and high fiber Eating Intuitively will make it happen for me and this time, I'm keeping it this way for life.
I am so glad to hear that you have your blood sugar under control. There is no question that high blood sugar is a serious health issue that needs to be addressed in whatever way is necessary.
The only time I've ever had a problem with my blood sugar levels is when I gained too much weight. Weight loss brought them back under control. I have no family history of diabetes and am not prone to it so a moderate weight loss did the trick for me. Fortunately I did not have to resort to a low-carb diet either.
I'm glad to hear that Atkins is promoting the "eat when you're hungry, stop when you are satisfied" idea. I see the concept of intuitive eating becoming more mainstream, and no doubt we'll see this appear as part of more and more "diet" programs, even though it is antithetical to any diet out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattygirl63
There were times over the years when I lost weight because I ate only when I was hungry which usually was 1 or 2 meals a day and once in a while not often I might need a snack which was usually only a few bites.
In other words, you only ate when you were hungry, right? Do you think you ate less carbs then as well? Or just less overall?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattygirl63
SouthernMaven I like that phrase you used from The Overfed Head... eating inaccurately. I think that describes what I'm trying to say. I don't believe there are any good/bad foods, but I do believe because of certain needs in some peoples bodies that there may be inaccurate foods or ways of eating them.
I see what you're saying here Trish, but I believe we're using the term inaccurate in two completely different contexts. You're talking about properties of certain foods that make it difficult or impossible for some people to eat without having a strong physical reaction.
My use of the term inaccurate is strictly in the context of the way people determine their motives for eating. Hence, I'm speaking more about people's emotional reaction to food as opposed to their physical reaction to it.
Short of medical reasons to eliminate or severely curtain certain foods (and they certainly exist) I still believe restriction in any form when not medically necessary is anathema to intuitive eating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattygirl63
I am so grateful that I now have a way of doing IE that works for me so that I don't have to eat when I'm not really hungry. I think there are people who do not have eating disorders or health problems like I have had to deal with who can probably do IE and eat anything they want and still lose weight. However, while I knew that at one time in my life that IE was the normal way that I ate when I was growing up, I had a problem getting it to work for me again. It worked for me the few times over the years that I was thin so I was sure there must be some way it would again. However, I also knew that I had to do it in a way that I could get the high blood sugar readings back down to normal and under control. I am so grateful that I have found it.
Those of us "of a certain age" no doubt face health challenges we did not deal with at a younger age. High blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar are just a few of the things many aging people face, overweight or not. And being overweight exacerbates those issues.
My high cholesterol is primarily genetic, but it is under control with medication. My cardiologist routinely runs the Berkeley HeartLab test on me which tests the genetic profile of my cholesterol and reveals much more about it than a standard lipid profile does. Even when the standard test showed my cholesterol in a perfectly normal range, the Berkeley HeartLab test shows the makeup of my cholesterol molecules & revealed a lot of problems with them. (they are too sticky) Fortunately they are also being addressed with medication and are much improved. (getting fluffier) He did this test because of a long history of cardiac problems in my family.
My blood pressure, however, is strictly a result of my weight. Weight goes down, so does the BP. Same with the blood sugar readings. I can eat 100% carbs but if my weight is normal so is the BP and blood sugar. So, at least for me, carbs just aren't the problem. Food eaten for reasons other than hunger is.
It seems like I have good days with IE, followed by not so good days.
I know that the legalizing food process is one of the most important steps. But will I want cookies for every meal forever? I know that this probably can't be healthy..but to be honest cookies and other "junkie" foods are the only types of foods that I have been craving... And I know that I am not always respecting my fullness as well as I should - I think that I need to slow down and tell myself that there is not going to be another diet, and I'm not going to spend over a year sub-1500 calories in deprivation again.
I felt really happy with IE for a moment, and that I was making progress, but then I read the Intuitive Eating book and in the nutrition chapter they say that they follow the 90/10 rule, (90%healthy only 10% junkie foods) so in actuality some food rules do come in to play eventually it seems...
I guess I'm just struggling to FULLY legalize the food and recognize that this is not just a diet vacation or something along those lines. I keep thinking "well I can let myself have this cookie now, but for lunch I should have my nonfat yogurt" or "If you keep eating like this you're not going to stay thin for long"
I also worry about weight gain, all my clothes fit me perfectly right now, and I honestly don't have the money to go out and by a new wardrobe if I gain a ton of weight. I'm afraid that I'm just going to overeat and gain weight excessively and that none of my clothes will fit me anymore...
I really want to trust this process but I'm just feeling kind of scared.
It's just hard for me to let go of the food police voice. My mom was a personal trainer for twenty years and she has VERY strict food rules that she always forced on me and my brother. We were only allowed low fat/ nonfat foods, low carb, with an emphasis on vegetables and protein. She also says that more than one dessert a day is excessive. I grew up listening to all this advice along with A TON of other bits for my whole life -to the point where I have internalized it.
I'm just struggling to let go of this voice and tell myself that eating more than one dessert does not make me a fat slob, that I won't become obese from eating the foods I want to, and that I don't have to force myself to eat "healthy" foods that I don't even enjoy!
It seems like I have good days with IE, followed by not so good days.
Perfectly normal, particularly when first starting out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koalifornia21
I know that the legalizing food process is one of the most important steps. But will I want cookies for every meal forever?
No. Really. NO.
I thought I'll probably eat Zapp's Hotter 'N Hot Jalapeno Potato Chips every night for the rest of my life. But in reality I probably haven't had them more than a dozen times since I started IE about a year ago. (of course, they do cause major acid reflux, so that's probably one reason for that)
I'm no Geneen Roth fan, but she said she ate chocolate chip cookie dough for every meal for two weeks. She said she sat down at the table and ate it as a meal. It's hard for me to imagine that, but again, I'm not a big sugar fiend. Could I imagine sitting down and eating a loaf of french bread at every meal for two weeks? Much more likely for me to do that than eat any sort of sweet, but that's what I prefer.
I personally can't go for more than a day or two without some sort of vegetable, and I have to eat some protein EVERY SINGLE DAY. So indulging those "forbidden foods" to the exclusion of other things, while enticing, just wasn't the way I approached IE. Because I couldn't eat like that.
That said, many evening meals consisted of popcorn and a glass or two of wine. But I had almost always had a more "conventional" meal during the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koalifornia21
I felt really happy with IE for a moment, and that I was making progress, but then I read the Intuitive Eating book and in the nutrition chapter they say that they follow the 90/10 rule, (90%healthy only 10% junkie foods) so in actuality some food rules do come in to play eventually it seems...
I cannot emphasize enough how much I dislike this book, and this is just one of many examples why. Once you put a restriction on your intake - ANY restriction - the whole IE thing goes out the window. They also talk somewhere in that book about eating every 4-5 hours even if you're not hungry. I found so many things in that book that fly in the face of what I believe to be the true practice of intuitive eating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koalifornia21
I guess I'm just struggling to FULLY legalize the food and recognize that this is not just a diet vacation or something along those lines. I keep thinking "well I can let myself have this cookie now, but for lunch I should have my nonfat yogurt" or "If you keep eating like this you're not going to stay thin for long"
You can't help these thoughts - having them isn't wrong. Based on what you wrote in your second post about your mom's "food rules" I'm not at all surprised that you're having them. It's perfectly natural to do so, particularly with your background.
IE truly is a process. Don't beat yourself up over them. I had them too, and I can't remember my mother ever saying a word to me about nutrition, what to eat, what not to eat. She provided good meals but in no way was the food police. I did that to myself - by dieting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koalifornia21
I also worry about weight gain, all my clothes fit me perfectly right now, and I honestly don't have the money to go out and by a new wardrobe if I gain a ton of weight. I'm afraid that I'm just going to overeat and gain weight excessively and that none of my clothes will fit me anymore...
Again, a normal fear. And unfortunately, it does a lot of people in who attempt IE. What often happens is that the fear becomes overwhelming and they then start back to dieting. I didn't even put on weight when I first started and I STILL went back to dieting for a little while. It was a disaster, and THAT put on a little more weight. Not the IE. The D.I.E.T.
I thought I'll probably eat Zapp's Hotter 'N Hot Jalapeno Potato Chips every night for the rest of my life. But in reality I probably haven't had them more than a dozen times since I started IE about a year ago. (of course, they do cause major acid reflux, so that's probably one reason for that)
I'm no Geneen Roth fan, but she said she ate chocolate chip cookie dough for every meal for two weeks. She said she sat down at the table and ate it as a meal. It's hard for me to imagine that, but again, I'm not a big sugar fiend. Could I imagine sitting down and eating a loaf of french bread at every meal for two weeks? Much more likely for me to do that than eat any sort of sweet, but that's what I prefer.
I personally can't go for more than a day or two without some sort of vegetable, and I have to eat some protein EVERY SINGLE DAY. So indulging those "forbidden foods" to the exclusion of other things, while enticing, just wasn't the way I approached IE. Because I couldn't eat like that.
That said, many evening meals consisted of popcorn and a glass or two of wine. But I had almost always had a more "conventional" meal during the day.
Again, a normal fear. And unfortunately, it does a lot of people in who attempt IE. What often happens is that the fear becomes overwhelming and they then start back to dieting. I didn't even put on weight when I first started and I STILL went back to dieting for a little while. It was a disaster, and THAT put on a little more weight. Not the IE. The D.I.E.T.
Hi Maven,
I appreciate your thought out answer. Like you I haven't been eating only these foods with the exclusion of others. I feel icky if I don't have any protein, and I oddly really like some vegetables so I have been eating them too. The way I approach it is I'll eat the cookies, but also have some yogurt (protein) with them...or I'll have a normal dinner that I like, (maybe eat a cookie before) but if I'm still hungry I'll let myself have cookies afterwards too.
I'm just hoping that I'll get to the point where they sound less appealing and I don't crave them for every meal. I get afraid that maybe I'm listening to my appetite/taste buds more than my body...
The fear of gaining a lot of weight is a really strong one for me and one that I don't quite know how to deal with. I know that I'll never be willing to diet again, but I'm also concerned with what my bodies set point may be? I know that before I started dieting (but still always eating pretty healthy) I easily maintained around 125 lbs...It wasn't until I got to college and cafeterias that I started putting on weight, about ten pounds, which inspired me to diet. I got down to 118 lbs, but after a year of dieting with no binges, I suddenly started to binge. It was like my body was doing everything it could to gain some weight. If my body was stable at 125 before, is there a chance that might be a set point for me?
I'm afraid that if I trust IE and get up to like 140 or something then I'll just be really depressed....at what point did you find that your size stabilized with IE? I know that you don't weight yourself, but at what point did you stop gaining/fluctuating? I can tell my body is dealing with bloating and getting used to processing more food, and just feeling a but off kilter...I'm just wondering if there's a time frame I can expect to stabilize in?
Again, I greatly appreciate your feedback!
Last edited by Koalifornia21; 04-07-2014 at 02:42 AM.
no doubt face health challenges we did not deal with at a younger age. High blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar are just a few of the things many aging people face, overweight or not. And being overweight exacerbates those issues. 