I'm with the OP. I would feel the need to say something really because the person needs support BUT if the person was not a close friend of mine, I doubt I could. Even if you said something, you might not be the kind of person she would be able to hear it from. I'm not sure how you would go about saying something like that gently.
I think the many assumptions being made aren't necessarily accurate. First of all, in assuming this woman's decision to have the first or the second surgery haven't been well thought out. Second in assuming that the friends and relatives and the person herself aren't "seeing it," and thirdy in assuming there's an it to see - in that the food posts are obsessive or disfunctional. Fourthy that the woman hasn't or isn't addressing the psychological issues (assuming there are any).
I spent most of my life looking for psychological issues, that as it turns out didn't even exist. I even obtained a bachelors and masters degree in psychology, and went into therapy several times trying to discover "my issues."
Eventually, I learned that many of my "psychological problems" and my health problems as well weren't a cause of my overeating, they were being caused by what I was eating. Almost quite literally, "modern foods make me crazy."
Eliminating grains and reducing sugars "cured" most of my food "addiction." I wasn't addicted to foods, I was addicted to non-fiber carbohydrates. The book "The End of Overeating," by David Kessler and "Good Calories, Bad Calories," by Gary Taubes convinced me finally (after suspecting for some time) that I didn't have mental problelms, I had carbohydrate problems.
Giving up carbohydrates is almost seen as sacrelige in this country. All ANYONE seems to talk about and PUSH are carbohydrates, and I did go through an "obsessive" phase. Obsessing about the carbs I couldn't eat was actually helpful. I could talk about them all I wanted, I just couldn't eat them.
I would have made an excellent wls candidate, except for health issues that make wls too risky for me. Even so, I had some doctors try to push it on me, and I won't say they were wrong or didn't have my best interests at heart. I also wouldn't assume that someone who had to have a second wls necessarily was emotionally unstable or unwilling to comply and definitely not that they think wls is an easy fix (after all, having gone through it before, she KNOWS it is not an easy fix).
Carbohydrates aren't just used as a "substance" by people with mental problems. We are taught to use carbs as a "recreational drug" from birth. And anyone who decides to "go off them" is treated as a nut. Even sweet grannies "push" the stuff on us.
Research has tried to find the defect or disfunction in morbidly obese patients, and most studies have found very few differences in mental health. For the most part, most of us aren't really, really fat because we are crazy or because there are psychological "issues."
Most people can't follow a paleo diet, because of the social pressures against it. As a nation, we're addicted to carbs and sugar and we ostracise anyone who suggests that these are foods that should probably be avoided by almost everyone.
The thin couch-potato-diabetic is just as damaged by this nation-wide addiction, but they're not accused of being crazy (they may not even know they're sick, because they don't look it).
It's possible that OP's friend is in denial. It's also possible that she's thought everything through, has and is receiving counseling, and she and her doctor believe that this is the best treatment option. It's possible that her "food obsession" is a healthy outlet for her - giving her a way to experience something she enjoys without having to eat it.
I'm probably more "food obsessed" now than I ever was when I wasn't successfully losing weight. I was always taught that even "thinking about food" was wrong - so instead of thinking about food - I ate it.
I think it's easy to play "armchair psychologist" but most of the time, we'll be wrong. Even with my degrees in psychology, I know that I even when I'm tempted to do it, I would be wrong most of the time - because you can't diagnose someone so easily.
I ended up "unfriending" her and I quit "following" her pins. It doesn't help me any seeing an entire page of desserts when I'm looking for my low cal recipe for shepard's pie. It really bothers me when people complain about things that they really could work on changing but don't want to help themselves.
It sounds like you're going through a judgemental and self-righteous phase. It's very common with weight loss, and you'll probably eventually grow out of it. Most people do.
Just like religious conversion experience, people "new to the game" of weight loss, most commonly after they've had a little success of their own - frequently start picking apart and judging accomplishments (or failures) and motivation of others.
I'm sure just as many people could point to you and assume that you're not really working very hard. It's easy to judge from the outside, and usually such judgements are wrong.
For more than 40 years, people could look at me and assume that I was complaining about things that I could really work on changing and that I didn't want to help myself....
but they'd be dead wrong. I was trying so hard, and not understanding why I was failing (and I would only learn later that my "psychological issues" weren't to blame - so I was working hard - but in the wrong direction). The harder I worked, it seemed the more difficulty I had. I actually gave up dieting all together about ten years ago or so, because in my experience dieting only made me gain weight.
I've now experienced unprecedented success... and it's not because I'm working harder. In fact, I'm putting far less work into my weight loss than I ever did before in my life. I've lost more weight than I ever have in my life, and I've kept it off and stayed on a downward trend for 5 years longer than I ever have before. I'm losing slowly, but I've learned that the slow pace is less stressful for me, and the easiest to maintain. Because I'm not working at my most intense effort possible, I don't get exhausted and sick of the effort. So I'm trying less intensely and yet succeeding far more, primarily because I accidentally discovered two physiological factors about myself that actually make weight loss easy and almost effortless. One, I need to be on a birth control medication to prevent TOM hunger so intense that I called it "rabid" hunger (and hubby called me werewolf). Secondly, I need to follow a paleo, no-grain diet (which I find very difficult to do, because of all the carb-pushing, but I'm doing well enough to make consistent progress).
Much of my most intense efforts didn't look like anything anyone else would be impressed with. You don't know what this woman deals with inside her head, and you don't know if she finds the complaining and food obsessing helpful. Some people find such venting and fantasizing helpful. I know I went through a phase when that was true. I complained a lot, and I spent a lot of time looking at food magazines, saving recipes... and other food obsessions. It was a stage that helped me cope at the time.
The fact is, you don't know what this woman has tried. You don't know how much effort she's putting in. You don't know if her complaining or food obsession is helping her cope or holding her back. You don't know if she's going through counseling or whether her doctor and perhaps even her psychiatrist believe that wls is her best option (if she has a therapist, she may even have been told to deal with her food obsessions by talking or writing about them, rather than doing them).
You think you know that she's not trying, but you really don't know. You can't because you can't get inside her head.
I learned this lesson most clearly as a probation officer. I assumed (as many naive young officers did) that many of the people we worked with "just didn't want help." Their lives were unmanageable because they were lazy, crazy, stupid or selfish - not because they were doing the best they could, but their best wasn't good enough.
It didn't take me long to learn I was wrong (and only partially because our bosses told us we were wrong). Most people did want help, they just didn't know how to get it, ask for it, engineer it, and/or they found it difficult to get out of behavior patterns they had learned or fallen into.
Change of any kind is damned difficult, and people cannot see your effort, only your failures. People who haven't experienced that kind of failure assume that the person is lazy, crazy, or stupid (and they're usually wrong).
I think you made a very good decision in unfriending her and deciding not to follow her pins, because I think you may have been letting your judgement of her, interfere with your own journey. Her food posts as you mentioned weren't good for you (whether or not they were good for HER, you don't really know).
I can kind of understand that part because I've tried fooling myself with that too. But if you are going to do something as drastic as having yourself cut open then why wouldn't you follow through with all of the work you have to do afterwards..
It sounds like you're going through a judgemental and self-righteous phase. It's very common with weight loss, and you'll probably eventually grow out of it. Most people do.
Just like religious conversion experience, people "new to the game" of weight loss, most commonly after they've had a little success of their own - frequently start picking apart and judging accomplishments (or failures) and motivation of others.
I'm sure just as many people could point to you and assume that you're not really working very hard. It's easy to judge from the outside, and usually such judgements are wrong.
Spot on.
I've been maintaining going on 8 years now and this really is such a common subject here on 3FC - it is almost like a "rite of passage" for many people, it's a stage they go through, and then they look back and think "yikes..."
I can kind of understand that part because I've tried fooling myself with that too. But if you are going to do something as drastic as having yourself cut open then why wouldn't you follow through with all of the work you have to do afterwards..
Because logic doesn't trump instinct, physiology, or biochemistry.
There are a lot of great books that explain why weight loss is so difficult in our modern food environment. In a nutshell, we have created a food environment that is extremely unnatural, and our bodies and instincts are programmed for a different environment.
In a natural world, starches and sugars are extremely rare - and foods that combine salt/sugar/fat are virtually non-existent. And yet, when they occur all humans (and most herbivores and omnivores) are predisposed to ignore their hunger and overeat these foods because biologically our bodies recognize these foods as "nutritional goldmines" (which they would be in a natural world, where food is scarce - or when it's not overpopulation occurs long before widespread obesity).
For most of our history, we survived by not eating only when we were hungry - but by eating when food was available, and eating as much as we could, because we didn't know when we would eat again. Also, "sweet" foods were rare, and when they were available there was intense competition for them. All omnivores and herbivores love sweet fruit (and modern fruits and vegetables have had more and more sugar bred into them, and fiber bred out of them).
It's not a surprise to me that 60% of Americans are overweight, it's a surorise to me that 40% aren't.
Our culture looks down on carbohydrate-abstainers, and encourages people to eat addictive foods "in moderation." I wonder how many heroine addicts we would have, and how difficult it would be to abstain - if we put it in babies' bottles and persuaded everyone of all ages that no celebration was complete without heroine. If those who were the heaviest users were encouraged to use "in moderation" rather than try complete abstinence. If it was laced in nearly every food and beverage and if our bosses, friends, coworkers and even dear old grannies pushed it at every opportunity.
After Reading "The End of Overeating," I finally understood why I couldn't control my eating. I thought I was eating healthy (but I was using the modern culture's definition of healthy). I didn't eat processed foods very often. I ate mostly whole foods, and avoided fast food, but I was still using the "addictive" combination of sugar/fat/salt and/or starch/fat/salt. (starch breaks down into sugar, so it can be nearly as addictive as sugar when mixed with salt and fat).
I've learned that the "crazy" hunger disappears on a paleo diet (trying to duplicate a diet in which quick-digesting carbs and the salt/fat/sugar flavor combo is extremely rare), and yet it's a diet that's very difficult to stick with (only in part due to the social pressure to indulge in the food-equivalent of heroine).
It's really rather ironic and sad really, that after more than 35 years of trying to control my overeating, that the solution was so simple. I just had to unlearn almost everything I thought I knew about health and nutrition. I learned that when I get rid of the "addictive" foods, then the insane hunger disappears or at least disipates to manageable levels. I have wasted so much energy trying to essentially use heroine in moderation, because that's what everyone told me was healthy.
When I thought I was in control of my eating, I failed. When I realized that the food I was eating was controlling me, I started to succeed. Too bad it took me more than 35 years to learn this.
And yet, this information still isn't common knowledge. In fact, it's rather controversial. Suggesting that grains, especially corn and wheat aren't miracle foods, is practically sacrelige in our culture.
We've set up an environment in which eating healthfully is nigh impossible, and then we judge those who have adverse health effects because of it.
Well, that's not entirely true. We judge those who have obesity as a result of the modern diet. We do not harshly judge the thin person who has other adverse health effects from the modern diet. So, if you have diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, arthritis, or autoimmune disease, you'll only be judged harshly if you also happen to have obesity as well - even though the modern diet may be responsible for all of those health effects including the obesity.
The medical community is just starting to understand obesity, and it will be another twenty years before "common wisdom" catches up.
WOW kaplods, that is amazing. I get like that when I'm "successful" losing weight. I certainly edit things I say, but I can't lie and say I have never had those self-righteous thoughts. I always find myself "judging" the motivation of others and I don't consider myself a judgmental person....AT ALL.
To the OP, your last post where you say you've UN-friended her is probably the best you can do. We cant change anyone or force them to be healthy. While I understand your concern, its really not my place, your place or anyone elses place to judge what she pins or decides to cook. I personally pin 95% recipes, and not all healthy. That said, I don't think that judging her choices by what she is looking at on the web or by what she pins very fair.
I'm overweight, I'm on a diet & I still pin food like no tomorrow. I LOVE to cook, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm eating it. Especially because of the strict plan that I'm on or that I PLAN to eat it when I get off in a few months. I just like to look at it & I love to cook it!
I don't think you're "out of line" but do you know for a fact that she's eating? Or even thinking about eating it? I pin a lot of crap that I wouldn't even TOUCH personally, just because I know I would love to MAKE it for my family.. just a thought
I suppose I'm self-righteous and judgemental all the time then. The way I look at life is that if you are going complain about something you can change, then you better get off your behind and change it. There is enough in the world that can't be changed. So, I did what I could change and I chose not to read her posts anymore.
I didn't choose to gain the weight I did. It was either that or not be able to walk without serious pain and difficulty. I didn't have the ability to lose that weight until now. So, I got off my behind to change what I didn't like. I'm not going to sit here and complain about it, I'm going to use that energy to change it.
I suppose I'm self-righteous and judgemental all the time then. The way I look at life is that if you are going complain about something you can change, then you better get off your behind and change it. There is enough in the world that can't be changed. So, I did what I could change and I chose not to read her posts anymore.
I didn't choose to gain the weight I did. It was either that or not be able to walk without serious pain and difficulty. I didn't have the ability to lose that weight until now. So, I got off my behind to change what I didn't like. I'm not going to sit here and complain about it, I'm going to use that energy to change it.
So technically you did make a choice. You chose weight gain over pain and immobility. Personally, I think it was a good choice (of course that may because I've made the same choice myself many times over the past ten to fifteen years). Prednisone is a double-edged demon, and you have to weigh the risks and benefits, but there are people (including many of my doctors) who argue that weight gain on prednisone is still a choice - just a more difficult one.
The problem is, you have no idea what this woman's choices were, are, have been or will be, and you won't know the intimate details of her choices and why she makes them. It's all guesswork on your part. Just as no one knows or cares that this is the first year (well 11 months so far) in probably ten that I haven't needed to take oral or injectable steroids. Nor do they care that before this year, I've averaged 3 to 6 courses of prednisone every year for the past seven to ten years. Or that I'm on many other medications and have multiple health issues that make weight loss more difficult.
No one knows or cares, they just see a fat woman who isn't trying, because they can't see my efforts. You can't see this woman's efforts, but I can't see yours, and you can't see mine.
No one knows what anyone else is dealing with, and frankly most people just don't care because they have their own issues. Some people find venting, and complaining about their problems as well as indulging in food talk and food porn helpful. Some people find judging and complaining about others helpful - others use it as a way to feel morally superiour while avoiding to address their own issues.
And as for complaining about things that can't be changed, you're doing quite well at it - except you're complaining about someone else's (possible) issues rather than your own. To me, that seems even less useful than complaining about your own issues.
Complaining about others or complaining about one's own problems can be helpful or they can be unnecessary distractions, but it's not something that can be judged from the outside.
I don't know if complaining about this woman is helping you or hurting you, because I don't know enough about your situation. Just as easily as you've judged this woman, I could judge you and assume the worst about you (and during some stages of my weight loss, I probably would have). Nor do I have enough information to assume the best about you, either. You could be using your beef with this woman as a way to avoid facing some of your own issues, I just don't have enough information to jude (and I now know it).
I'm not even judging your judgement of her (just trying to point out that the judgement may be inaccurate), because I have been at the judgemental and self-righteousness phase in the past. I think most of us go through it, and later it usually embarasses us how little empathy we had for people who were probably (or at least may have been) in situations similar or worse than our own.
It's very easy to assume that someone isn't trying, but the fact is most of us really are doing the best we can. And if it takes a second wls for this woman to get where she needs to be, thank goodness it's available to her. If the food porn and complaining helps distract her from eating, more power to her.
Unfortunately, one of the most difficult aspects of weight loss is facing the inevitable judgement. Our culture encourages hostility, animosity, jealousy, and harsh judgement in all aspects of weight loss. No matter who you are, how much you need to lose, how successful you are at it, how you go about it or whatever other choices you are making along the way - there are always thousands of people judging and condemning your choices, all with very little information.
As a result, we've made weight loss a no-win proposition, because no matter what you choose and why, there are thousands of voices trying to get into your head to tell you that you're doing it wrong. There are as many doctors saying wls is underutilized as doctors saying it is overused. There are as many people saying that low-carb or paleo is the only healthy way for everyone to eat, as there are people saying those WOE's are dangerous fads.
I pin tons of bad foods on Pinterest, with the intention of making them someday. However, to me, someday could be years down the road. Some of the stuff I pin, I know I'll probably never make, I just want to pin the recipe just in case. Some of them I've made for other people and not eaten any. So I don't think you should take her pinnings to mean she's definitely going to make and eat that food. (Of course, it's possible that she has every intention of eating it all, but how can you really know that for sure?)
I do agree that it's hard to feel sorry for and support someone who complains, yet does nothing to change. But I've been in that situation in the past (not quite as badly as your friend though) and it's just not that black and white for some of us. Food addiction and having emotional issues related to food and eating are a tremendously difficult thing to overcome and a lot of people don't understand that.
Just my two cents, throwing out possibilities for you to mull over. Ultimately, you know her and we don't, so it's your call!
I think the fact that she pins enormous amounts of food items on the web site isn't nearly as scary as the enormous amount of time she, (and other computer junkies) spend sitting on their butts brousing the site when they could be moving and actually maybe doing some of the things they find interesting.
I know several 200+ pound friends who are addicted to pinterest, and never do anything but sit at the computer and snack and dream of doing the things they pin. I've never even looked at the site, I don't need to find ANY other sitting activities interesting!!!
