Thanks everyone. I met up with one of my very good friends who is also friends in this group last night over drinks and we both really think that Dee is trying to be the peace maker... I'll have to have another conversation with Dee about this possibility.

SIL (or whatever you want to call her) and I have a very long history together. A few years ago we couldn't even be in the same room. We've in the last couple years graduated to being together at family functions and its working out perfectly! The problem between us is mainly that her and her mom love to bash me to the rest of the family behind my back. They continue to hurt me by doing this. Therefor why on earth would I want to associate with SIL (or whatever you want to call her) outside of a family situation??? I would be crazy to put myself in that position.

Anyway I appreciate all of the feedback here it really helps put the situation into better perspective.

Okay, that clarifies things a bit. I can identify with that situation. It happens a lot in families everywhere. It always surprised me when former SIL would know something that I told to XH, who told his aunt who told MIL (who is aunts sister) who told SIL who has talked with BIL (and my sis) then asks me about a now very twisted version. In the beginning it used to PI$$ ME OFF royally. How dare they talk about me behind my back to EVERYBODY ELSE and put their spin on things instead to talking to me directly. Sigh. Its what they do and it is who they are. I can't change them, they will do what they do. The best I could do is change how I react to them. I laugh at it when my sis relates what they say (my BIL is aunt and xMIL's brother). I laugh at it and shake my head with no hard feelings. I'm mean really, when you think about it - xDH to aunt to MIL to BIL to SIL to my sis to me - its just really, really funny!!! They are a bunch of silly gossips with nothing better to do. What a relief to let go of the anger and frustration when I changed my attitude. And they do it to everybody and each other in the family. I'll bet your SOS/SOM do it to other people, too - not just you.

Bottom line, when you don't give their behavior any value, it is meaningless. Like water off a duck.

If they're talking about you behind your back, who is passing the information back to you? In my experience, the person who brings the story back to tyou is rarely as innocent as they make themselves out to be (often they're the one who actually initiated the badmouthing in the first place, and many times they're actually quoting themselves, and blaming someone else).

If its your bf, he needs to defend you in the moment, not tell you about it later.

If it's someone else in the family, beware their motives, and their level of participation. If they weren't listening to it, the bashing would never get elaborate enough to bring back to you, because they would have nipped it in the bud by defending you or refusing to hear it.

Also, you admit to talking about them behind their backs ("venting"), are you sure that's any different that what they're doing?

Venting and badmouthing are really the same behavior. It's just (justified) venting when we do it about someone else, and it's (unjustifiable) badmouthing when someone does it about us. If we hear and are upset about what was said about us, the words are "unforgiveable," and if they hear what we've vented about them and are upset, they're "being overly sensitive."


Also, a lot of families engage in "recreational gossiping" and nothing truly hostile is meant by it. It's venting in it's truest sense - expressing frustration with family members who aren't everything we wish they'd be (people rarely are).

My family has elevated recreational gossiping to an art form. Everyone in the family (or outside of it, for that matter) is fair game, and anyone who isn't present is likely to be a target - but there's also an unwritten "fairness" rule that "what's said at the gossip table, stays at the gossip table," and it's also generally acknowledged that anyone who tattles to the gossip subject, is usually doing it to stir trouble, or a way to initiate a recreational gossip session of their own.

The bashing they do is so stupid... its totally passive aggressive... they will say to me "oh such and such is fine" but really its not fine and when they get home its time to tell BF's grandmother or aunt who eventually you can figure out via other conversations what went on. My venting about it is nothing more then to my friends with "can you believe these people"... we all do it... we're a support group to each other... and I could care less if BF's fam talked about me how every they see fit to anyone who it wont matter to but when they do it to someone like grandma and auntie... that hurts. They are really petty about it too like complaining about that I didn't have enough napkins in the house or that I buy cheap toilet paper or the gift I bought them was broken when they opened it (it was a glass picture frame and in the course of wrapping and transporting the glass broke, I felt terrible about it). Stuff that is really hurtful to hear after they are passive aggressive and tell me don't you worry its fine. Know what I mean. Who needs that.

So, it hurts you to hear that people are saying you buy cheap toilet paper?? Do you hear what you're holding a grudge about? Who cares if MIL told grandma she didn't like the gift you bought? If they were calling you a whore or a drug user or child abuser... sure, that might give you license for some confrontation. But you're upset because they don't like how many napkins you have? It sounds like you need to let some things go, IMO, and not assume everyone is out to get you.

Also, what Kaplods said. I especially love the distinction between venting and badmouthing, I've always thought that there's really no difference except for the party speaking.

Girrrrl...if the worst thing they're saying is that you buy cheap TP, they are not that bad! Okay, maybe it's a little petty of them to notice and talk about that, but it's really, really small potatoes--not something you should hold a grudge about.

Let me put this into perspective for you a little bit. My brother died suddenly a couple of weeks after starting divorce proceedings. His soon-to-be-ex-wife broke into the house a couple of days after his death and snapped off the pipe from the water heater to flood the house because she knew that my family would have to deal with the damage to my brother's worldly possessions. She wanted to cause us (and her own 16-year-old son, whom she didn't want and left to move in with my parents) more pain on top of having to deal with a funeral. That's how hateful and spiteful she was. That's who I was talking about when I referred to having difficult in-laws.

So yeahhhhh...saying you use Brand-X bum-fodder is such an unbelievably small deal that you should give these folks a hug for being no worse than an eensy-weensy bit petty about paper products. Seriously, they are NOT dragons.

Okay yes that sounds petty... but its different. Its hard to explain trying out... they do some pretty nasty things besides talk about the toilet paper I buy. How about when we invite them to a birthday party for my son and my daughter and they only (all of them) only bring gifts for my son but not my daughter... even though my daughter has been part of the family since she was 2 years old? (she is 11 now)........ my daughter was 8 when this happened and of course they aren't obligated to do anything for her but come on... they came to the party and brought gifts for my son who is their blood. They didn't have to bring anything for either of them and it would have been just fine but they only bring for the one who is their blood... then they eat the food we prepare and leave to then talk about the toilet paper I had and not enough napkins.... does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

I get that you think they're crappy people, but I respectfully disagree. Maybe they're a little petty, and it isn't really very nice to talk about other people's paper products, and it's definitely mean-spirited to bring a gift for one child and not for another, but...that happened three years ago by your own account.

Three years is a LONG time to hold onto some offhand comments about single-ply TP.

Did you talk to them about it? I can think of at least a few reasons that they might have done as they did. Did they realize it was a joint birthday party? Were they really tight on money? Did they just get confused about which person was going to buy both children's gifts and spent the whole car ride to your house arguing over how the mix-up could've happened?

If you haven't talked to them, you don't know.

Honestly, it sounds like a lot of what's going on is work that you need to do on feeling okay with your extended family. They are imperfect people; they're maybe a little petty, maybe a little chilly, maybe even a little mean-spirited sometimes, but they are not so evil that you can't bear to be around them, surely? They haven't lit anything of yours on fire, stolen from you, physically harmed you, killed your pet?

You're trying to justify how badly you hate them here on the boards, but try to see what it is you're really so upset about. Three years is a long time to stew over something, even something as rude as failing to bring two gifts.

You don't want to hear this, because you keep trying to convince us you're right but seriously? Get over it. NO ONE is obligated to bring gifts to a party. Is it insensitive of them to bring gifts only for the child they're related to? Maybe, but just because you believe they should doesn't mean they're wrong for not. And this ridiculousness over toilet paper and the like? The person at fault here is the one bringing these stories back to you.

It'd be like if one of these girlfriends you b!tch too went back and told pseudo-SIL about your venting. Who is wrong? You for venting or the person who went back to the SIL? What they do is no different than what you do; they just don't hear about it.

Build a bridge and get over it. Life is too short and you're wasting precious energy dwelling on this stuff.

All families have drama, no matter how great or nice or awesome you are. You just have to ignore it, or choose not to care when someone does bring it back to you. My in-laws do not like the fact that I am not religious, never mind that my hubby isn't either. I've heard tales of having my grandma in law saying I'll probably go to ****, but honestly, if she's nice to me to my face what do I care? I'm as nice as I can be, and I generally get niceness back, even if it is superficial. I do love them and I know they love me-but every family sometimes gets caught up in idle gossip.

Okay first off I think you've gotten some great advice here, but I think you need to tell the person who is relaying all this garbage back to you on what these people are saying about you that they need to stop. It's clearly not doing any good for your mental state.

I also think you may need to reconsider venting to these friends (like Dee) about your SIL and her family, because to be quite honest what you say to them is probably going right back to your SIL and so on, so in the end you look just as bad as they do for talking petty crap. Not to mention they won't see it as that and make it seem like you are worse and your feeding them more fuel to talk about.

In the end you choose to be with this guy, and choose to be apart of his family (technically if you are living together it is common law marriage there for you are married without that "stupid" piece of paper and have the right to call her your sister in law. IMO) there for you are either going to have to put a stop to this and confront them and have a sit down talk with them let them know they are hurting you, or as I said before tell the person who is passing on this crap to you to stop. You do not want to hear anymore of it.

Being pissed off at people all the time is exhausting and it's draining trust me and I'm sure you are recently figuring that out. So they said you buy crappy TP, if they're saying it to your face make a joke on how if they don't like it they can buy you the "good" stuff or whatever. Stop taking things to heart and stop allowing yourself to hear this gossip and petty stuff they are saying. As Nola said, as long as they aren't lighting something of yours on fire, harming you or your child in any way they aren't THAT bad of people. Sure they're pathetic and petty and have nothing better to do then bash you, but than again you choose to be apart of that family by being with the man you are with.

Okay it reads very differently then it makes me feel and frankly I asked for honesty about the situation with my friends and SIL/SOS not about all this other stuff.

Its interesting how people play follow the leader on these message boards because I have kept this exact same tread going on 2 other message boards... one a general womans and the other a parenting board and none of them are as opinionated about my fault in all this then the weight-loss board.

Regardless they are pretty nasty people I could go on and on but really the matter at hand is that SIL/SOS whatever the heck she is to me I don't want to have to re-hash anything with her that we have already figured out the best way to keep at bay and that is keeping our relationship strictly limited to family occasions and not socially. I can't and will not socialize with this person. Its not healthy, she is toxic. IF it works out that she starts socializing with same group of friends I socialize with then I will have no choice but to bow out. My friends are pretty smart people and eventually they will see her for what she is. I'm not worried about it anymore but I'm not going to sit on a message board that I came to for honest advice and be told that something I'm feeling and more importantly HURT MY KIDS is okay behavior.... petty or not. DO NOT come into my home, eat my food and treat my kids badly and then talk about something as stupid as I didn't have enough napkins and had cheap toilet paper.... I could draw a longer list but thats not the point. Thanks for listening and please know y'all don't have to play follow the poster before you to get a point across.

I hope that doesn't come off as defensive... I do appreciate the feedback and it helped me a lot!

I don't think we're playing follow the poster, I think it's the opinion that a whole lot of objective observers have about your situation.

On the subject of not mingling friends - I think that's up to you. In my opinion it's immature and very high school and I think you'll end up with very few friends if you play that game. But, you gotta do what you gotta do.

I find it interesting how one asks for adivce and feedback from people yet gets all defensive because not everyone is siding with you in saying they are horrible people. I'm sure in your mind they are but we're only getting one side of the story. I think everyone here has had valide points and their own opinion on things and it's not about following what the last poster said, and sure some things get quoted because some times people offered good enough advice.

Maybe you're getting a harder line from posters here because we've all worked really hard to get through all the bullsh!t in life and focus on what's important. During a weight loss journey, one is forced to take a long hard look at oneself. I used to b!tch and moan about these people in my life who were doing me wrong, disrespecting me, and generally making me feel lousy. The truth was that *I* was the one doing me wrong, disrespecting myself, and making myself feel lousy. I projected my crap onto everyone else, and it took some serious soul-searching to realize it and make the changes I needed to make. I lost some friends, I gained others, and I was able to patch up some relationships I thought were damaged beyond repair.

So yeah, when you say they're trashing you because they don't like your toilet paper and didn't bring a gift for a child they're not related to, it comes off as an over-reaction. Sure, the Reader's Digest version you're giving us is over-simplified, but the bottom line here is that you still have to get over it. You can give them all the power by dwelling on it, which will only make YOUR life miserable, or you can let it roll and move on.

If you feel like that's a party line, then maybe it's time to join the party.