Yep...there are thousands of kids and adults running around out there....living messed up lives.... because their "biological parents" aka flavor of the month/week/day/moment....

went for that self pleasure thing.....

sometimes sex isn't just sex too....

Of course, that's why it's prefaced with "sometimes."

Even with my DH, though, sometimes sex is just sex. I love him with all my heart, but that doesn't mean that I'm emotionally "into it" everytime he wakes me up at 4:30 a.m. to share the ACT.

2 is not much of a sample.

but it is all i got.

and i think from what they both said?

they didnt know until SOMEONE told them. which caused them so much pain.

being devils advocate here?

what if the cheater DIDNT tell (why is NOT the issue and for sake of this comment- not our business): the spouse NEVER found out and they lived together for 50 more years and loved each other and were true to each other and had a happy and full marriage.

who are WE to say their marriage is a LIE because she didnt do what WE think she shoud (tell now or ever)?

or what if she didnt tell and she left him next week WITHOUT telling.

what if by OUR (SOCIETY) judgement we made sure she knew she had done wrong, she would have decided she didnt want to be in the marriage and caused him pain by leaving him.

what if she left him because she was told the things that have been said in this thread to her face by people in her world.

and what if the first scenario could have happened if she WASNT judged and pushed to do something that WE want her to do (tell). and why do we want her to?

really? why?

cause WE (the bible, the church, society, US) feel better thinking she will do it.

why?

dunno.

I'm also not saying that you should just run out and screw everyone you see (Heaven forbid!) or that children should be having sex or being taught that it's ok to have sex "just because."

Believe it or not, some "1950's" morals resulted in things being better "back then."

EZ
i grew up in what appeared to be a intact family

2 parents and 2 kids----dog and cat

my life is pretty messed up.
my sisters even worse.

lots of secrets in our INTACT FAMILY---drugs, mental illness, incest....on and on


straight up i will say that if i had lived with one parent and they had a "flavor of the week" and i had been protected and loved and nurtured as a child?

i would NOT have cared how many "uncle joe or bob and harry" my mom had or for that matter my dad had.

moral behavior is PERSONAL.

and EZ?

i aprreciate your comments as a male with a strong religious slant.
the thing i hope and wish that you (and others) see is that the OP is a woman, she may or may not have had your church influence and she may not have had your life experience growing up.

i see your side. can you (not just you but others who have said her not telling is wrong based on church principles) see her? and see that while she is not you?

her choices may be the best for her.

and i am not picking a fight and i hope it doesnt sound like i am.

random thought while making coffee

remember reading "the scarlet letter"?

hester told.
she got shamed and shunned and damned to ****.

the Reverend didnt tell.

he lived without public shame and without moral condemnation.

whether she SHOULD tell isnt my questions. never was.

but i got a answer i didnt expect.

The answer i got was that i need to be more like MY higher power and forgive those who trespass against me (or my societal rules). as MY God forgives me.

cause while i sure would not want to be hester? i would hate worse to be the one who forced her to pin on the BIG RED A.

wow...this has really made me think and evaluate myself.

how about you?

What if indeed? What if he would have been happier in the long run if they had dealt up front with the infidelity and whatever other problems (because it did not happen in isolation), whether that meant staying together or not?

Um, because it is. That is just fact.

Well, I guess that would be her choice. It would be a rather strange choice, and certainly not a caring one, to leave him wondering. I have no idea what this scenario is about.

I don't quite get this idea that we are supposed to have no judgment about infidelity. No one has said that she is irredeemably evil. But she did something *very* wrong. "What if by our judgment we made sure she knew she had done wrong" - I thought the premise from the first post was that she knew she did something wrong - how then could society make her do anything by convincing her of something she's already convinced of?

No one can make her do anything. She has to choose. We're not saying anything that wouldn't be appropriate to say to her, if she asked for opinions.

Yeah, not right, no question.

I think part of that is because for those who think it would be more painful to find out later - the reason they think it would be harder is all about why they think it is wrong not to tell in the first place. You can't separate that.

I agree. But I *think* you've confused truth with forgiveness. I don't know if this is what you intended, but what has been coming across in your posts (at least to me) is that forgiveness means not telling. And if we think she should tell, it means we're judging and not forgiving. But they are entirely different issues.


Again, no one has said anything about forcing her to do anything. Telling her husband if she won't do it - that would be forcing. All anyone has advised is that she should decide to tell truth. I suppose you could say she has been advised to pin the big red A on herself, but no one has advised forcing her to do it or doing it to her.


It certainly is thought-provoking. I'm willing to consider the possibility that it's not always the right thing to tell people something they don't know about yet. But I think it's highly difficult to make that decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs dorson
who are WE to say their marriage is a LIE because she didnt do what WE think she shoud (tell now or ever)?

Um, because it is. That is just fact.


************************************************** ********

a fact according to who?

would you like to pin the BIG RED A on her yourself?

************************************************** ********

did the universe or God or Buddha or Jehovah or Odin or whoever come down and tell you personally that :

"IFthis woman doesnt do what YOU (not anyones higher power) say she should do-her marriage is a lie. and she will never ever be able to move past it. her entire lifetime with this man will be a falsehood."

really?

WHO SAYS SO?

she has her karma. i have mine.

and no offense but you do too. will you be comfortable facing your higher power and explaining your treatment of this person (in this forum or in your mind)?

not just asking you, julie
asking everyone.

old saying.......when you are pointing one finger at someone else? you have 4 pointing at youself.

just saying....

Actually, I only saw one person talk about religion in this thread and that was EZ, so I'm not sure what others you are referring to. Perhaps you're putting your own spin on what they think or I missed all the religious references. I've seen people speak about facts versus lies, wrong and right, but I haven't seen all the religious things you are referring to. I mean my own opinion has NOTHING to do with what I believe as in my spirituality. I just view things as right or wrong in certain situations on what I THINK RIGHT AND WRONG IS. This is a "right" and/or "wrong" situation and that is that. There is no spin or debate or what ifs, it just is what I think. If someone else thinks it is jolly okay to go around and have sex with the world, put themselves first and live a life of lies, and think that is entirely okay, well then that is them and there ya go. lol

You asked if we can see her? My answer, no, because to be frank I doubt most of the posters would change their opinion on what they view as right or wrong or what action they would take if the person in the situation changed. It is the situation that you asked us to comment on based on what we think, not about your friend and her thoughts. So, that is why I don't see judgments, which you keep referring to or perhaps you're talking in general terms. That could be. You asked us about what we thought about a situation and a topic, to me it doesn't matter who the people involved are. It just is a situation. I have no personal attachment at all to you or your friend, but of course I wish you both the best.

I mean in my eyes cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if you're male, purple, pink, polka-dotted, blah blah, so EZ's gender and religion doesn't have much to do with it as the same opinion, minus the religious aspect, was repeated by several people from different walks of life. If someone values sex over love, or values themselves over others, or values other people over them, yadda yadda all of those MAY BE the best choices for that person, however many choices we make can be negative and/or destructive. So, whatever choice your friend makes is hers and hers alone, that means she has to accept the consequences of those decisions. Not you, not me, not anyone else, but her and whoever else is involved. No judgments, that is how it is, that is life. I mean it isn't poetry or book or a movie, it is real life. That is how it is...

All we can do is give you a thought based on where we come from, who we are, and what we think.

*shrugs*

??? SOOO confused. Treatment of who you, her?? What higher power? What are you talking about? I dunno, I mean I don't even HAVE A HIGHER POWER. I'm like a spiritual pagan. I believe in nature lol Wow...Anyhow, best of luck to you and your friend. :p Seriously...I do mean that, so take care of yourselves.

I have not read all the responses yet, but I as the person who's ex husband did cheat on me I would say that I absolutley am glad that I found out. Granted it was not from him, but I am still glad that I was able to make an informed decision about my marriage then to not have all the "facts" so to speak.

I think if someone has cheated in their realtionship then there are some deep rooted issues that need to be discussed and resolved if they intend to stay in that relationship.

Just my thoughts from someone who has been the cheated on person in the relationship. I have never cheated on a signifigant other and maybe I am not able to see both sides???

Again, you are conflating different issues. The marriage is a vow of fidelity. She cheated. He does not know. That is a lie. I do not understand your point at all. What does god have to do with the definition of lie. It is just a definition of a word in English.

Where has anyone said they are applying advice to her they do not apply to themselves. Yes, I will be comfortable facing my higher power [not sure I believe in one, but whatever] and explaining my treatment. It is the same treatment I feel obligated, from my higher power, to apply to my own life.

Jacquie668
thanks for your input. my comments you quoted WERE directed to EZ and "others". not necessarily you. and if you are comfortable with your views?

BRAVO!


lovinlifex2 ?

you are only the 3rd to have been the cheated on. so your view is wonderfully welcome. out of 3 people?

1 said NEVER tell
1 said tell NOW
1 (being you) said you would want to know with no specific time.

still a small sample from someone who has actually experienced it.

but thank you for giving your vote.

I don't know about that statement....

I tend to think of women more in terms of "creatures of emotion". I know that I could never just "have sex" with someone for the sake of having sex. For me sex is a very intimate, meaningful thing that I would not want to throw around and do with just anybody.

Maybe I am out of the loop of how women are thinking now a days - or maybe I am just too old fashioned, but it sure scares me if that is the new "norm" in terms of sex.