can't they just switch out a few rows of regular seats for a bit larger seats, charge a little bit more like you would to fly first class and call it good?
The problem with that, is what do you do on a crowded flight if the airline runs out of larger seats? I'm sorry, ma'am, you can't fly with us today - we're out of "fat seats"?
Or what if the flight is booked full and a skinny person winds up buying that seat? Does she get a partial refund? After all, she doesn't NEED that extra space, so she shouldn't be forced to pay for it. But if she's sitting in one of the seats with larger space, is it fair for her to pay less? After all, she's getting the use of the full space?
Setting aside a row of larger seats just isn't practical for all kinds of reasons.
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Last edited by PhotoChick; 11-24-2008 at 11:19 PM.
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I don't fly anywhere near as much as I used to. But Northwest Airlines (and possibly some others) are starting to charge "premiums" for better seats. All passengers are booked in the middle seats starting out and you have to pay more for aisle or window seats. I believe they also charge the highest "upgrade" charge for the coveted - is it called the bulkhead row? The one just behind the emergency exit that has extra leg room all the tall people try and grab first. We paid extra for aisle seats when we travelled earlier this year.
And at one time there was an airline flying from Chicago to Las Vegas primarily. (They are no longer in business). For $35 dollars you could upgrade to what would be a business class section. You didn't get the meals or free drinks of first class, but you got the same roomy seats. Both DH and I always paid the upgrade - we fit in the regular seats but the wider ones were much more comfortable on a longer flight.
I would pay slightly more for roomier seats but cannot afford the big jump to the first class price. I got used to the little bit of extra room that American airlines was putting in their cabins and one time when we flew, we took a United flight. At the time (not sure if it's changed), they only gave you more leg room in the first 15 rows. We were in the back of the plane on the second leg of the trip and were wedged in so tightly that when the person in front of me pushed their seat all the way back, I actually got claustrophobic.
So now we don't go across country any more and drive most of the time when we do travel.
I think you should have to pay for the extra seat....I'm looking at this from a business point of view and not an obese person, I guess some people would say it's a bad habit for me lol! I hate when people try to get something for nothing :P
I don't fly anywhere near as much as I used to. But Northwest Airlines (and possibly some others) are starting to charge "premiums" for better seats. All passengers are booked in the middle seats starting out and you have to pay more for aisle or window seats. I believe they also charge the highest "upgrade" charge for the coveted - is it called the bulkhead row? The one just behind the emergency exit that has extra leg room all the tall people try and grab first. We paid extra for aisle seats when we travelled earlier this year.
Wow, I haven't flown for a long time. That's nuts. Never used to be like that. They used to ask for volunteers to sit in the bulkhead row, you had to be willing to help with an evacuation.
Happy2bme, you've pretty much written out my thoughts.
Air travel is generally uncomfortable for everyone unless you pay extra for it. If I could solve the obesity airline crisis, I think they should have different size/type of seats (wider, more leg room, more food, more entertainment, etc) and charge different rates for it. On my flight to Korea there was at least 4 different types of seats. Most were economy but the others ranged from nice wide cushy chair to something that pretty much became a bed. I think it's great that they will charge extra for things like bulkhead and exit row.
In the meantime, there are airlines with better seats than others. You can look up how big they are on the internet. Midwest Airlines has a bunch of planes that have first-class size leather seats throughout the whole cabin. Give your money to an airline that meets your needs and treats you right.
After reading all your comments, especially wheelchair-bound vs. obesity arguments, its so clear to me that obesity needs to be considered a more serious medical issue. Doctors should see an obese person and say "Let's help you get better!" If you landed in a wheelchair, I imagine there are so many services to address what got you in that place. If I have a heart problem, a doctor would try to put me on medication. If I have a physical injury, a doctor would prescribe me physical therapy. As a technically obese person (6 lbs away from overweight-ville), I wish a doctor would look at me and prescribe me a nutritionist and a trainer.
I can't figure out why obesity isn't taken more seriously. Does it really look like a lifestyle choice (I CHOSE to obese and I can CHOOSE to be not obese)? Does it seem like the remedy is simple enough to do on your own (for many of us, it's not)?
I know I'm on a serious tangent but as people continue to be become obese (I don't think it's stopping) and as the travel industry tries to maximize profits as fuel costs go up and the economy tanks, I think airlines will need to be more creative in addressing the needs of all their passengers.
Wow, I haven't flown for a long time. That's nuts. Never used to be like that. They used to ask for volunteers to sit in the bulkhead row, you had to be willing to help with an evacuation.
If it's not nuts to charge a person for taking up two seats because a seat to fit them isn't available, why shouldn't people who want the more "popular" seats be expected to pay more for the priviledge?
I mean, if it's just a business decision, it certainly makes just as much sense to charge more for the seats that more people want - that's just basic supply and demand.
Does it really look like a lifestyle choice (I CHOSE to obese and I can CHOOSE to be not obese)?
Well .. to be honest, as someone who used to be obese (medically speaking) and is now "just" overweight ... it is to some degree, a choice.
I chose to eat more than was healthy for me. I chose to eat a 1/2 a bag of sour cream and onion chips a night. I chose to eat 4000 calories a day of food. I chose not to work out or exercise. I chose to come home from work and eat mashed potatoes smothered in gravy and to do so while sitting in front of the television with my laptop on my lap.
I'm not saying that there is no-one who is overweight despite themselves, but I'd venture to say that MOST of the people out there are like me. There's no reason I'm fat except that, honestly, I'm lazy and I like food. I ate too much and exercised too little. And yes, that is a choice I made.
Once I put my mind to it, I also CHOSE not to be obese. I chose to eat healthy food and I chose to get off my a$$ and start walking and going to the gym.
So yes, I really do believe that for many of us it is a CHOICE. That sucks. And it might not be politically correct. But I do believe it's true.
I can't get behind the "eat like a pig" statement - I think it's rude and hateful. But getting away from the semantics of it, *most* of us did "choose" (in ways direct or indirect") to lead unhealthy lifestyles that has caused us to be overweight.
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Last edited by PhotoChick; 11-25-2008 at 01:27 AM.
PhotoChick, I really agree with what you've been saying.
Whenever a topic like this comes up in conversation, I'm always surprised at the number of people who feel it's their "right" to something, that they are "entitled" to a particular service, regardless of their behaviour. Life doesn't work in that way, it doesn't owe anybody anything. Yes, it's right to try and make things as fair as they can be. Life isn't fair, and so we try to level the playing field for people who have suffered accidents or misfortune, but we can't shirk our responsibility for our own health and our size and expect others to accomodate us. Harsh as this may sound, if you overeat and become obese, there are going to be certain things that you can't do as easily as someone who is not overweight. It's no-one's job but your own to ensure that your size doesn't get in the way of you living your life as you wish to, and I really think it would help tremendously if more people took personal responsibility for their choices and mistakes, instead of expecting others to cater for and accomodate them regardless.
Obviously, I don't deny that there are certain medical conditions in which obesity becomes the inevitable outcome, and I would view this differently. However, I would take an educated guess that the majority of obese people are that way through their diet (a choice) and leading a sedentary lifestyle (a choice). It is these people (and I include myself amongst this group) that should take responsibility for their condition, and if that means having to pay double on a plane because they have chosen to make decisions that lead to them requiring more than one seat to sit in, then so be it.
Back to Melody's comment - I can see what she is saying... yes it is a daily choice whether you will eat more than you should - meaning obesity is a choice.... but some people have problems with obesity due to medical issues.
For everyone else - if you want to bring up sensitive issues, you have to be aware that some people will tell it like "they really beleve" it is. Not everyone has the same beliefs or ideas.
I can see where the wording will offend people - but like me, I take it with a grain of salt, and try to understand their meaning behind the words.
As for myself - it's such a hard issue, in a way Obesity is a daily thing (isn't it said that 1/3 of North Americans are obese? ) So it should be something that is taken into account when planning seating for flights. But in a way, why can't they just make larger seats like there used to? Or like Gary's idea... bench seating... with armrests you can pull down?
Then what about the seating that you book online? Could they not have "measurements" of the seating... that way you can discreetly measure yourself at home and decide for yourself whether you need two seats?
To a large degree my being a business owner has a large effect on my opinions on these topics. I have had far too many people get angry at me for what I charge or try to talk me down in price because of their situations and then get angry at me when I wouldn't.
And the bottom line is that while I do love what I do, I have to earn a living. I have to pay my bills. And while I'd love to be able to photograph everyone who asks, I can't. I can't shoot a wedding for $500 or even $1000. It's just not possible.
And even though there's a difference between being a 2 person business and a large multinational corporation, I think the principle is the same. Yes the company makes a lot of money off of the price of the seat. But there are also a lot of expenses. And a company that doesn't take all necessary steps to maximize profit when and where they can is a foolish company. And if that means that some people wind up choosing NOT to use their service, the company has to decide if that's an acceptable risk to them.
I lose some business because I won't discount my prices. I lose some business because I won't compromise on the length of time I shoot on a wedding day. I won't do a 2 hour "formals only" coverage. People who hire me either hire me for the full day or not at all. And they pay for it. So I have made a choice that I am willing to lose those 2-hour people because I believe that I can still make up for it with the number of people who will pay for my all-day coverage.
The airlines are the same. As someone else said here, flying is not a right. It's a consumer product that one chooses to use and pay for. Either you're willing to pay the price or you're not. And I guarantee you that if some airline becomes completely restrictive, there will be another airline that will jump all over that and offer reduced price double seating or something like that. It might take some time, but it will happen. It's the nature of a free market. And then we'll see which airline does better in the long run.
you have to be aware that some people will tell it like "they really beleve" it is.
I think I'm pretty well known around here for "telling it like I believe it is".
But there's a difference between what I wrote above about it being a choice to be overweight and saying "You have a daily choice to eat like a pig or not."
I would venture to guess that most of us do not "eat like pigs" ... and I think that fostering that stereotype on this board especially is just uncalled for.
With the erratic fuel costs it comes down to a business decision. I wouldn't dare to say someone else chooses to "eat like a pig" or whatever. I am bothered though that I am asked to pay extra for a few pounds extra in my luggage but the guy next to me can be morbidly obese, take up a large portion of my seat, make my entire flight uncomfortable and be deemed acceptable. It doesn't make any sense.
It's **** to be fat. I know.
Maybe not very PC but I just envisioned the "Does you bag fit here?" box at the airport. They would only need to change the size of the box and one word of that question.
Last edited by Thighs Be Gone; 11-25-2008 at 10:32 AM.
Without reading anybody else's comments, I do think that overweight people should pay for two seats instead of 1 because they are taking up two seats. If I took up two seats I'd pay for two seat because it's the right thing to do. The same goes for charter buses and the rail.
