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Old 10-14-2010, 07:59 PM   #61  
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Ilene...

I absolutely do not know if this is true, just it's what I want to believe. If I had leaky gut or another malabsorption issue, maybe eating this way has improved my handling of food and the before (daily) was a sign of sickness.

I am watching my carbs pretty closely and am not eating nearly what I will be eating veggie and fruit-wise when I reach my goal and do maintenance.
I do not get near the amount of fiber that I used to eat.

I am a bit conflicted about fiber as my low-carb doc recommended Metamucil (psyllium husks). Others have poo-pooed (no pun intended) the need for extra fiber. I have not done enough research yet. I have read that it will help bind up cholesterol and flush it down the drain rather than into/onto my arteries.
I've read that cholesterol enters the system through the colon and that we should definitely go to the bathroom and flush it down the toilet... I take ground flax for that same reason, it's very similar to Metamucil...

Did you notice Sandy that the convo came to a dead stop since we've been talking potty
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:59 AM   #62  
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Hah! Well regarding the current discussion (or lack thereof) ... I think I mentioned my doctor wants me to eat more fiber to get my overall cholesterol down. This even though my good HDL is 71 and my triglycerides are in the 60's, so my ratio is LESS THAN 1! (they want it to be less than 4, so this is spectacular). On the other hand, my overall is a little high, thus the fiber recommendation.

So..... for the last several weeks I have been eating much more fiber, including oat bran and psyllium supplements. I have occasionally also added ground flax to the oat bran (as per dr. recommendations), but flax has so many calories that honestly I would rather spend my calorie budget on something more real to me.

I get my bloodwork done mid-November so will report back then.

-----
ok, before this fiber experiment, I did "go" everyday but very minimal. But I had no problems whatsoever. I would not be doing the fiber thing if it wasn't supposed to be good for lowering cholesterol ... after all, it's just dead plant material, right? My main problem with this new protocol is the oatmeal (a grain) and two fruits a day (at least one being an apple or pear which provide pectin and soluble fiber). I had not been eating grains or just very occasional fruits, certainly not every day. He also wants me to have one square of 85% chocolate and 10-15 almonds every day. The almonds I can control, but I can't have a chocolate bar in the house or it will be gone. Any ideas on single portion chocolates?

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Old 10-15-2010, 10:13 AM   #63  
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Thanks, Sparky, for the warm welcome!

I was lurking over here because I wanted to find out what all of this primal/paleo diet stuff was about. Since realizing I have a carb sensitivity, I've been looking for a diet that I could do and people who are doing it. A lot of people with blood sugar issues seem to be on Atkins. I'm sure it's a good plan, but the book I read about prediabetes seems to recommend something closer to the primal way of eating. Of course, I'm not opposed to stealing some recipes from the Atkins board, too.

As far as the *ahem* current discussion goes, I've been having similar issues. I don't "go" for a few days, and then I have um, well, the opposite of constipation. Maybe I'm getting too much fiber? I don't know. Or maybe I need more fiber for bulk? I tried Benefiber because it is tasteless, but it is made from wheat, so I don't think that is a good idea. I just hate the thought of Metamucil, but a lot of people are okay with it.

CJZee, I think you could try the Dove Dark squares. They are really good, and I did not have a problem just eating one or two squares a day. Unfortunately, my husband would find my stash and eat them all before I could.

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Old 10-15-2010, 10:44 AM   #64  
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Cj,

Yes, please report back on your blood work. I had a finger prick cholesterol check done a month ago and my total cholesterol was sky high, fifty points more than usual. Could have been the finger prick method, or that I am eating so much meat but it kind of scared me that primal is going to be a problem for me.

I am just adjusting to the pre-diabetes scare.

all,

By the way, I need to decide on Byetta. I do not want to be labeled as pre-diabetic but I may have to, to get insurance to help with the cost. I do not need appetite control, which apparently it does very well. I wouldn't mind creating some new beta cells in my pancreas that some say it does and some say it's hype. I would like to prevent damage to organs that higher blood sugar causes. It is supposed to keep that low as well. Does anyone have any experience with it?

I was going to try to get to goal and then check everything and see if just losing weight clears this stuff up. I honestly don't think that my cholesterol will go down enough. But then I do not necessarily buy the cholesterol link to heart disease. I am more concerned with inflammation numbers.

Yesterday, I waited until after lunch (it's getting colder here) to go for my walk. I went about 4 blocks and turned around. I felt like my legs were lead and I was a little dizzy. The grandkiddies have been a little sick and maybe I had a touch of flu. I had earlier taken a very hot bath, and when I got out, I was dizzy as heck. This happens with hot baths but yesterday I went down on my knees. Probably not a good idea.

Hope everyone has a relaxing weekend...

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Old 10-15-2010, 11:02 AM   #65  
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Thank you for the welcome! I always start off so well and after a few days some of the carbs come sneaking in. Mikkijoe, you are so right that once you let a little bite or two in then you start craving it. I need to be extra diligent to just say no!

On the plus side, however, I'm down 2lbs, and have been for the past couple days! I have been eating less food effortlessly, I notice that I haven't been as hungry really.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:14 AM   #66  
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Thank you for the information girls ... When I get just the finger prick cholesterol test my total cholesterol is high ... I would really like to bring that down... Even my HDL is slightly high when I get the real blood test ... DH has high-ish cholesterol and he's very small and eats very healthy, better than me at times ... So sometimes it's just genetics, unfortunately, but we are both fighting those genetics with tooth and nail ...

CJ, I buy the darkest chocolate I can get 85%+, and it's so dry and bitter than I cannot eat more than a small piece... I have a glass of wine sometimes with chocolate and a few almonds, it makes for a really nice treat... what can I say I love my wine... Had 3 glasses of wine last night, while watching Grey's Anatomy, and I *went* quite well this morning ...

theCandEs and rakel

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Old 10-15-2010, 11:38 AM   #67  
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Good morning,

Catching up here ...

Regarding the "poo" conversation, my husband and I were just discussing this morning. I still go daily but the volume is much less and it is less, ah ... TMI? ... unpleasant in several ways. I think if you are not eat lots of garbage food, the need for fiber is somewhat less. Keep in mind that, when eating primal, the biggest volume of food should be vegetables. If you are eating plenty of vegetables, you're probably getting enough fiber.

Cholesterol is a topic that is much discussed on the MDA forum. There is a lot of evidence that suggests total cholesterol really means nothing, high HDL is good, and low trigs are good. LDL is not so simple ... there are large particles and small particles and they can be measured by an additional blood test or estimated based on the various ratios. Apparently, the large fluffly particles are safe and the small hard particles are connected with heart disease. Many family practitioners don't know this and still consider total cholesterol over 200 to be "bad". After two months of reducing grains and eating more fat, with one of those months being primal, my blood improved ... trigs went way down to 30, HDL went up to 46 (still low, but an all-time high for me), and my ratios suggest my LDL is the large fluffy type. I'm taking vitamin D3 and fish oil to try to get my HDL up. CJZee, I know I would not add oatmeal and fiber supplements daily (being pre-diabetic); I would just go with more green veggies.

This morning I had my best fasting BG yet: 98. So glad to be out of the 100s. I had three days of good primal eating, with a bit of rice Tuesday evening and a couple of bites of bread last night. So I am not sure if the lower BG this morning was due to those three days, or the fact that I ate dinner at 9:00pm. That's the beauty of tracking, I guess, I can look for patterns and figure it out.

Chocolate is one of my favorite things to eat. I used to eat way too much milk chocolate and now I find Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate Lover's Bar 85% to be just right. I heard that Cost Plus has a 99% bar that's pretty good. I plan to buy one and try it out. That might be bitter enough that one or two squares a day is fine.

Inflammation is also more of a concern to me than cholesterol, etc. I am hoping that by finally caring for myself, my inflammation will go down and my pre-diabetes will just go away. I don't ever plan to go back to being the carb-junky I used to be (seriously, grains were the dominant part of my diet), but I would like to eat a piece of cake or a pastry or a bagel once in a while without sending my BG soaring to nearly 200. Maybe someday. I think I finally figured out eating for me, as I feel much better than ever before and the weight continues to slowly come off. It's amazing ... I tried so hard on low fat, restricted calorie diets to lose weight and I couldn't. I can't believe it's happening now.

Hope everyone has a great Friday and weekend!
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:50 PM   #68  
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... Even my HDL is slightly high when I get the real blood test
Having a high HDL is good! That's the good cholesterol, it sucks up the bad stuff I guess.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:45 PM   #69  
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Ok enough of this poop, diabetes and cholesterol talk.

I am thinking stress/anxiety does bad stuff to me and my ability to lose/maintain weight. I was checking into yoga for two reasons. I breathe very shallowly and I have never been flexible but now I am just stiff as a board. I bought a 24" bike 'cause I couldn't lift my leg easily over the 26" girls frame. That is pathetic.

But, 'cause I am so stiff, I am intimidated to go to a class unless it is a senior, a disabled or a chair(yikes)class. I found some and am still intimidated. I have a couple yoga for older folks tapes and may start with these until I gain confidence. I have "performance anxiety". Can't even write a check in front of folks without messing up. I know this plays into my self-consciousness. Like anyone would be looking at me.

I really do not understand the difference between the types of yoga. I want something that focuses on breathing, stretching and meditation as opposed to doing poses that require balance and strength. I would want that eventually. Does anyone do yoga?

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Old 10-15-2010, 03:01 PM   #70  
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I think Ilene is the yoga expert......I just started taking a yoga class and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it! I'm am so stiff and uncoordinated and sometimes I even giggle at myself when I'm trying the poses because I'm self Conscious. But I have to tell you Sandy....this I know for sure.....no one cares. Everyone else in the class is busy concentrating on themselves to even care. Find a good class with a good teacher....ours comes around and helps us with the poses and she's ALWAYS helping me. I don't even care anymore.

I was just thinking yesterday how this yoga class is almost like getting a massage .....it feels so good. Sometimes I even feel like crying because all the stress and tension comes out of my body by the end of the class.
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Old 10-15-2010, 06:33 PM   #71  
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I was just thinking yesterday how this yoga class is almost like getting a massage .....it feels so good. Sometimes I even feel like crying because all the stress and tension comes out of my body by the end of the class.
Wow... what "kind" of yoga is it?
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:07 AM   #72  
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LDL is not so simple ... apparently, the large fluffly particles are safe and the small hard particles are connected with heart disease.

CJZee, I know I would not add oatmeal and fiber supplements daily (being pre-diabetic); I would just go with more green veggies.

Chocolate is one of my favorite things to eat. I used to eat way too much milk chocolate and now I find Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate Lover's Bar 85% to be just right. I heard that Cost Plus has a 99% bar that's pretty good. I plan to buy one and try it out. That might be bitter enough that one or two squares a day is fine.
Thanks for all the great info and comments on cholesterol, fiber and ... chocolate!

I'm so undecided whether to follow this doctor's guidelines on the cholesterol. I went to him specifically to lower cholesterol without medication, but I'm unhappy I have to be less primal.

He says veggies just won't replace the oat bran, etc. because veggies have insoluble fiber and oats, psyllium, etc. have also soluble fiber which is apparently the stuff that sweeps out the cholesterol. He also wants me to cut out most saturated fat and do low-fat everything, sigh, also no eggs just egg whites, double sigh.

The other thing, which I disagree with and doubt I will do, is he wants me to go very low calorie, 1000-1200/day. I have been eating 1500-1800 a day and losing slowly on that, and am scared to death to lower my metabolism. I so don't want to be stuck eating 1000-1200 day just to maintain. I tried to explain this to him, but I don't think he heard what I was saying. He just kept repeating I didn't have to stay that low forever, what's that have to do with the price of tea in China?

He did a VAP cholesterol test which measures everything six ways to Sunday (you can look it up on the internet) and everything but my LDL (and overall) is fabulous, and even my LDL is the Type A pattern (large, fluffy, more benign). This doctor understands all that and he still thinks it's important to try and lower my cholesterol some (it's 255, LDL 130), so I'm going to do the diet for awhile except I haven't lowered my calories so much. One of the reasons I have lost almost 90 pounds thus far is the feeling that I CAN eat and I don't want to mess with that delicate mental balance.

Re: the chocolate. Maybe I'll have my fiance hide some and just dole it out to me. One thing I did before this doctor was buy some "Attune" dark chocolate which has probiotics built in. I just had one small bar of that per day because I didn't want to overdose on the built in probiotics. It's expensive but I'll probably do that because I was able to control it before.

Any comments on this new diet or suggestions? Always welcome. Thanks. CJ
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:02 PM   #73  
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Aaah, I have some time to read and post this morning!
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He [my doctor] also wants me to have one square of 85% chocolate and 10-15 almonds every day. The almonds I can control, but I can't have a chocolate bar in the house or it will be gone. Any ideas on single portion chocolates?
I've used Lindt 70% individually wrapped squares very successfully. I could nibble a piece, let it melt and make a single square last close to 10 minutes. A personal best in slow chocolate consumption!
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The other thing, which I disagree with and doubt I will do, is he wants me to go very low calorie, 1000-1200/day. I have been eating 1500-1800 a day and losing slowly on that, and am scared to death to lower my metabolism. I so don't want to be stuck eating 1000-1200 day just to maintain. I tried to explain this to him, but I don't think he heard what I was saying. He just kept repeating I didn't have to stay that low forever, what's that have to do with the price of tea in China? ... Any comments on this new diet or suggestions?
Could you stay at the lower end of your comfort range for a few weeks (maybe have a new "bracket" of 1400 - 1600?) and see how that feels. If you feel okay and that the change is manageable, you could counter-offer to meet the doc halfway for 6 months. If the halfway (on the calories) doesn't produce results after 4-6 months, you switch to his full recommendations. (I bet you won't have to do that. )

Your compliance with a higher calorie plan will be better over the long term than many of his other patients who follow the lower cal & higher carb plan for the short time and then crash and binge.

Also, I've done psyllium as a before bed supplement, usually with some chilled flavorful herbal tea. It's not the most appealing thing to consume, but does get the insoluble fibre count up. It's probably best to do it well after (2-3 hours) eating.

===
I'm slowly increasing my fat consumption with coconut oil, butter and cream. This week I've been consistently around 40% of total calories, up from 30% in September. I have to say that I feel much more satisfied and have fewer cravings when I do this.
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:06 PM   #74  
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Gosh, CJZee, what a dilemma.

It sounds like your doctor is advising you to eat totally non-Primal. Good for him for ordering the VAP test, though. So even though your LDL is pattern A he is still worried? It's kind of annoying that so many doctors' answer to everything is "eat low fat".

I think I remembered reading that you had one abnormal fasting BG reading, but you have successfully kept your BG normal. Based on everything I have read, I am way more scared of diabetes complications (including heart disease) than cholesterol. But that is me ... struggling to get my BG under control.

Maybe you can compromise ... keep your calories up (I agree with you about that, I would be miserable on that small amount of calories), back off a bit on the fat, and add a little oatmeal. However, by reducing fat and adding grains, you may need to reduce calories a little. You should also test your BG to make sure that isn't affected. I am sure your doctor would not want you to develop diabetes just to get some number a little lower.

In the end, it really is up to you. You have to weigh the risks and benefits of different ways of eating. There is some credible evidence that suggests your doctor's dietary advice isn't terribly sound, but it is scary to go against the advice of experts.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:08 PM   #75  
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Holy Moly! I go off to raise some $$ for our school and come back to 3 pages of posts! Took me an entire cup of tea to get through them.

Won't get into the poo discussion...we'll let that die a natural death...but really glad to read some of the tips. Yoga...gotta try that, sounds fabulous and exactly what I need. Chocolate...I'm in the eat the whole bar or nothing group so no help there I'm afraid. HDL,LDL,BG,FBG....wow...lots of info...sorry I can't contribute anything positive on that end. Guess I have been "lucky" so far with everything within "normal" range.

Fundraising has thrown me off the wagon with a huge thud. I am presently dusting myself off and getting back on. One thing I know is I have felt awful for the past week (thanks to sugar and flour ) so I am eager to ditch the crap and start feeling better.

Still have another fundraiser scheduled for this week so I'll be back Saturday-ish.
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