maryblu, I don't think I'm judging anyone by saying that I'd like some recognition for what I have done instead of assumptions based on the notion that losing 100+ pounds is impossible without surgery. I don't want people to believe surgery is the only option, and I like serving as an example of that. So when people assume otherwise, it annoys me. Like I said, I didn't expect it to annoy me as much as it does, but I thought this might be a good place to share my feelings about it since others have experienced the same. I'm sorry if you feel like I think I'm superior or I'm being judgmental. I'm simply being honest about the way I feel about false rumors that are being spread about me. Of course it doesn't matter in the long run what other people think, and I've acknowledged that it may be a bit petty for me to want people to recognize the transformation I've undergone. For me, that transformation is NOT about losing 100+ pounds. It's about going from an obese person to a runner. The idea of my having surgery instead kind of wipes running out of the equation, which erases what I feel is my biggest accomplishment. In other words, I don't care if people notice that I wear a size 8 now. I'm much more proud of my ability to run 14 miles without stopping. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how much more that means than the simple fact of my weight loss. Obviously, the two things are tied together. But that's just it, I suppose. I don't want people to tie my weight loss in with the idea of surgery because then they have the wrong idea of my transformation and they're missing the part that I feel is by FAR the most important.
Perhaps I haven't made myself clear, and I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my honesty. Again, it's not a judgment on other people's way of doing things. It's a simple desire for my OWN way of doing it to be acknowledged if people are going to talk about it anyway... Here's a crappy analogy for you: imagine you baked a pie that won a national contest, and you used a recipe that you had made up and that you were VERY proud of. Everyone congratulated you and talked about how great it was that you were able to use your sister's recipe to win a contest. When you got angry, everyone said ...well, what difference does it make as long as you won the contest? Who cares what people think?
Although it isn't the same, if someone said to you "wow your skin looks great, when'd you get surgery?" Instead you did something else (changed your diet, started a beauty regimine, etc), wouldn't you want people to know that you didn't do it by their assumption?
Seriously, I don't like people assuming that weight loss surgery is the only way to lose a significant amount of weight. Plus people should know that there are options and that there is hope beyond getting cut open.
Hm, the problem IMHO isn't about us (here, on this forum), being judgmental. It's about other people believing that gastric surgery is a walk in the park. Of course it isn't. Of course it takes a serious dose of courage to only start envisioning having surgery, it's not a decision that one can take lightly! But the fact is, in the mind of those people who say "she's had surgery, evidently" and spread this rumor, it all amounts to "there's no way an obese person could have enough dedication to lose weight the old fashioned way, therefore she must have 'had it easy' with surgery, therefore we're not acknowledging her efforts, she hasn't done anything great after all".
And because we know those people think this way, well, it kinda stings. Because whether surgery is involved or not, whether it's about weight loss or any other area of one's life, having one's own efforts belittled and not recognized sucks.
maryblu, I don't think I'm judging anyone by saying that I'd like some recognition for what I have done instead of assumptions based on the notion that losing 100+ pounds is impossible without surgery. I don't want people to believe surgery is the only option, and I like serving as an example of that. So when people assume otherwise, it annoys me. Like I said, I didn't expect it to annoy me as much as it does, but I thought this might be a good place to share my feelings about it since others have experienced the same. I'm sorry if you feel like I think I'm superior or I'm being judgmental. I'm simply being honest about the way I feel about false rumors that are being spread about me. Of course it doesn't matter in the long run what other people think, and I've acknowledged that it may be a bit petty for me to want people to recognize the transformation I've undergone. For me, that transformation is NOT about losing 100+ pounds. It's about going from an obese person to a runner. The idea of my having surgery instead kind of wipes running out of the equation, which erases what I feel is my biggest accomplishment. In other words, I don't care if people notice that I wear a size 8 now. I'm much more proud of my ability to run 14 miles without stopping. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how much more that means than the simple fact of my weight loss. Obviously, the two things are tied together. But that's just it, I suppose. I don't want people to tie my weight loss in with the idea of surgery because then they have the wrong idea of my transformation and they're missing the part that I feel is by FAR the most important.
Perhaps I haven't made myself clear, and I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my honesty. Again, it's not a judgment on other people's way of doing things. It's a simple desire for my OWN way of doing it to be acknowledged if people are going to talk about it anyway... Here's a crappy analogy for you: imagine you baked a pie that won a national contest, and you used a recipe that you had made up and that you were VERY proud of. Everyone congratulated you and talked about how great it was that you were able to use your sister's recipe to win a contest. When you got angry, everyone said ...well, what difference does it make as long as you won the contest? Who cares what people think?
I am trying to decipher maryblu's post. I think you may be wrong. It sounds like she is in defense of us, and she's attacking those that have determined that surgery is the only option. In her last paragraph she mentions that if she had the surgery, insurance would pay for a body lift, but since she hadn't insurance won't
This morning I was listening to a repeat of the Howard Stern show from this past week. He had Ricki Lake on. The 1st thing he asked her was did she get the surgery done? And she proudly proclaimed that she did this the right way. For those of you (like me) that didn't know she had lost this weight, I found this link at MSNBC Go Ricki! Go Ricki! Go Ricki! Gawd, I just love these weight loss success stories. It gives me more hope.
I think the heart of the issue is how badly it can hurt when people (especially when it's people close to you, or people you have to deal with almost every day) diminish the effort it takes to lose a large amount of weight. Before you lose the weight, there are people throwing all sorts of "advice" at you, basically telling you how "easy" it is to lose weight if you "really" wanted to (never mind that some of the people giving all this great advice are very overweight themselves). Then after you lose the weight, there are people
making catty remarks about how you were able to lose weight (easily of course) because of _________ (fill in the blank: diet pills, or surgery, a personal trainer, an expensive diet program, following a specific diet plan like Atkins....).
Let's face it, some people are clueless, or just plain nasty mean. And what do you do? Ignore it, confront it, try to educate the idiots? Sometimes it seems that you can't win.
It seems to me that people "judge" those who have had the surgery....or even have concluded that surgery is the "easy way out", and somehow less of a feat than those of us who did it with diet and exercise .....I think surgery is a very tough road to choose........at the same time, if someone thinks that is how I did it, it does not diminish me or take anything away from me. I think from now on, I just need to stay out of these discussions. :-)
Part of the problem though is that people who aren't aware of the surgery think it is an easy way out. Those of us who could've qualified for surgery (morbidly obese, over 100lbs overweight, etc) but didn't chose surgery generally know that it isn't the easy way out and I think we have tried to express that sentiment in this thread.
Those around us who start such rumors may believe its the easy way out and say "oh so and so had the surgery, they lost the weight easily". The other item is that it also presents the idea that someone couldn't possibly lose weight without the surgery so it creates a feeling of hopelessness around those that can't or won't have the surgery.
Honestly, if I was at my highest weight and everyone I knew who lost weight had weight loss surgery and doctors and the media presented it as the only option, then I would feel hopeless. I was glad at my highest weight to be on this website and know that it is possible to lose weight without surgery.
I think you were very clear, Lisa Marie. It is simply that you want your journey to be understood for what it is and not be assumed to be something it wasn't.
A birth analogy for a moment (please indulge me if you will).
Woman A had an emergency c-section. Woman B had an unmedicated childbirth. They both have cute little pumpkin heads.
Someone assumes woman A pushed her baby out and says, "Wow! Pushing that baby out must have really hurt!" Someone assumes woman B had a c-section and says "How long did you have to recover from it?"
These assumptions detract from each woman's experience....it is not that one is better or less than the other. Each was unique, individual, and what that woman needed to have her result: the kid. But those assumptions detract from a woman's lived experience (whether or not a value judgment is ever passed).
Lisa's efforts and results should be recognized for exactly what they are, and not for what they are not. Her feelings don't pass a value judgment on another person's experience. There is no competition. There is simply effort and reality.
Another reason why I personally think it is important for people to know of other's experience is that if people are left to assume that you lost weight via surgery, they may consider that surgery is the only option and the only way to lose weight. The vast majority of obese people do not have insurance that will cover weight loss surgery. If you must self-pay, it is an expensive surgery. Why in the world would you not want people to know that there is a way to do it without surgery. I agree with Nelie, that there would be a great feeling of hopelessness if I thought the only way to lose weight and be healthier was to have GBP surgery.
And yes, I completely understand that it isn't the easy way out. My sister had GBP surgery and I saw first hand how difficult is was for her. I admire that she was willing to do what she felt necessary to improve her health, but I also know first hand that it isn't the only way to lose weight.
I think it all boils down to the fact that we all just want credit, where credit is due. Simple enough.
Think of it in reverse. Let's say there were rumours going around that I (or any one of us) lost all the weight through changing ones diet and eating right, but in fact DID have WLS. I would want to get the correct facts "out". I know for me, if I had had the surgery and got fantastic results from it, I would want to scream it from the rooftops. You couldn't hold me back. I would be touting that surgery left and right. I would have no problem saying that, yes, I needed some help and I chose weight loss surgery and it was wonderfully successful for me.
Lots of good analogies here -- it seems like we're all pretty much on the same page. Not that we have to be, by any means. I didn't mean to stir anything up -- I just thought this was probably something lots of us have dealt with. I have to respectfully disagree with maryblu about one thing: she says it doesn't diminish or change what she has done if someone assumes she did it with surgery. I feel different about that for myself, because I think, as I said in my original post, that it completely erases the fact that I went from an obese person to a runner. More than anything else, running is what has changed my life. I don't want people to believe it was surgery instead, partly because I'm proud of my accomplishments with my new fitness level but mostly because I want people to see that ANYone can become a runner if he or she wants to, and that running CAN change your life, as it did mine. I guess it surprises me that people would want to assume I had surgery, when that's the last thing I would've done. That's not a judgment on people who do it, because I'm talking about ME, and I'm just not a person who would choose to be cut open if there's another option. For me, there was definitely another option, and I took it, and I want to encourage other people to do that too.
Wow, this subject certainly touched some nerves,huh?
Here are my thoughts.
If I had the surgery, I would automatically start losing weight. If I tried to eat the same way as I did before the surgery, I would get extremely sick almost immediately. This would be a major deterrent for me to overeat as I have a phobia of vomiting. Initially and for a while, I would not have to rely on willpower alone to lose pounds. My stomach would hold less food, therefore, I would consume less and lose weight. The pain of surgery wouldn't be that big of an issue for me as I've been through 4 abdominal surgeries in the past 15 years!
Without the surgery, I can revert to eating the same way as before I started dieting....I've done this many many times...and I wouldn't get extremely sick immediately. Without the surgery, I have to physically and mentally force myself to stay on-plan. It is a battle of wills within my mind and body, and each day that I win the battle is a major victory for me.
The decision to have or not have the surgery is not easy. I did have the option, but elected to not have the surgery. I didn't want to never again be able to eat some of my favorite foods. I don't want to only be able to eat very tiny portions of select foods...for ever. Yes, I do think the surgery would have been an easier option...and, I'm really sorry if that is offensive to some of my friends here at 3FC. I have to fight hard to lose every single solitary pound and I'm very proud of each pound I've lost.
I would be very interested in seeing some studies of the percent of maintainers who lost via surgery versus those who've lost with diets and exercise. I would be especially interested in seeing the results for those who manage to maintain their loss for 5, 10 or 15 years.
Lisamarie, you do deserve credit for your committment and hard work. I was reading your daily posts during the majority of your weight loss journey and I know what you were going through and I saw your miraculous transformation. You are one of my role models here at 3FC and you give so many of us hope. Thank you.
Last edited by GirlyGirlSebas; 12-12-2007 at 05:01 PM.
I think in a lot of ways, I found the C-section analogy a good one. Many people think a C-section as the "easy" way (if they haven't had one), but any woman who has had a child both ways (such as my mom) will set you straight on that one. A little easier in the sort term, and a lot harder in the long term.
I have relatives and even one of my doctors pushing me towards weight loss surgery, but I've researched it very carefully, and my decision against it at this point, has more to do with it being the "harder" or at least "riskier" way, as I see it. The financial cost, the risk of death, infection, pain and other complications, life-long difficulties with malnutrition, and statistically still a 60% chance of gaining it back. Not willing to take that all on, at this point. I guess, for me, even 35 years of failed dieting hasn't made those risks seem worth it. Yet, even though I have decided against WLS, because I consider the way I have chosen to be the "easier" one for me, I'd be very offended if someone told me I had chosen the "easy" way. There is no easy way. And I think someone who has had the WLS, has every right to be offended by anyone accusing them of taking the easier way. Many of our members here who have had WLS have faced infection and other potentially deadly complications. I believe we've even have members who have died as a result of WLS complications. Telling these people and their families that they took the "easier" way is both disrespectful and untrue. We all take the path that was best for us, "easy" really has very little to do with either. While I think debating over which way is "easier" is unproductive, devisive, and disrespectful, I don't think it is unreasonable for any of us to want to be recognized for our struggles, not someone else's.
I don't think WLS is necessarily easier, not having had it, I can't say for sure, but I do think - it's just different. Not easier, not harder - different. There are probably things about it that are easier, things about it that are harder. I think the part that may be easier, is the fact that you are forced, absolutely forced to eat smaller amounts of food, therefore losing weight is practically guaranteed - to a point.
But none of that changes the fact that LisaMarie didn't have surgery, and therefore doesn't want to be thought of as having had it.
