Jillybean: So glad that you have found something that is working for you. How are you and your honey doing? Before Christmas you were having doubts. Are they all smoothed out now? I hope that whatever you decide you are happy.
As for me and Jeff, who knows? The thing is, I found a conversation on his computer about a week after we moved in together (we moved in mid-October) that made it seem that he had cheated on me over the summer I was livid! I honestly thought of packing some of his clothes in a bag and telling him to leave the moment he got home from work. Well, he claims he did NOT cheat on me and said that he has never cheated on a girlfriend before because they were only girlfriends, not wives, so if he wanted to be with someone else, he would break up with his current girlfriend. He also claims that he has not seen this girl in over 2 years, but I know he lied about that because I remember over the summer when he TOLD me he went out with his friend Becky (the girl whose conversation I saw online). Turns out they had had a "fling" in the past (he said he wouldn't even call her an ex-girlfriend, but they did have sex) before he met me, which is fine--what bothered me is that in all the conversations he had with her that I read on his computer, he NEVER once mentioned me or that he had a girlfriend at all. Why would he hide that from her if they were just friends and he had no romantic interest in her?
Anyway, we fought about it and dropped it without it ever really being resolved in my head. It started a LOT of questions in my mind. Anytime I tried to bring it up to give him a chance to explain, he just thought I was accusing him of cheating again, so he got defensive and angry. I am okay with believing that they did not have sex (I don't think he would have told me that he hung out with her back over the summer if anything had happened, plus I think she would have mentioned it in a later conversation--believe me, she was not shy), but I just want an explanation as to why he felt the need to talk to her the way he did at all. Actually, I would even be happy with a simple apology about the whole thing. He never really admitted that he did anything wrong. It's like in the mind of a man, if he didn't have sex with her, then he didn't do anything wrong. I don't think he understands that even just their conversations were very hurtful to me.
So that whole incident opened the floodgates of jealousy. He's my first real boyfriend, and before this whole incident, it basically wasn't even on my radar to be jealous--it just never occurred to me. He was MY Jeff, and he loved me, and I loved him, and that was all there was to it. But then all of a sudden, every time he was late coming home from work or I was gone for a meeting or whatever, I would be thinking, "Where is he? Who is he with? What is he doing?" That is no way to live. I was a wreck.
It still happens sometimes. It's been about 2 months since that big blow-up, but I still get upset inside when he's late from work. I even considered cancelling a trip because I didn't want to leave him home alone for a whole weekend. I started wondering if I could really spend the rest of my life with someone who would do that to me or who could lie to my face about it. He still doesn't know I know he lied about not seeing her over the summer. However, after thinking about it (and crying about it and having many girl talks with friends about it) extensively, I've come to understand that he could have lied in an effort to protect me, ya know? Or because he felt attacked when I pounced on him about it, and that was his defense--denial. That doesn't make lying okay, and we'll have a chat about that sometime soon (it's so hard to find the "right time" to bring up such a topic), but at least it's semi-understandable.
I also thought back to a guy I was with in college. I would never consider him a boyfriend, but we fooled around and went to parties together and whatnot (no sex, though--Jeff was my first). After I graduated and moved away, this guy called me for months. He called after I had met Jeff. He even called really late one night and woke me up while Jeff and I were sleeping, and yet I never told him about Jeff. I eventually told him to stop calling, but I never told him I had a boyfriend. I'm not 100% sure why...I guess there was the thought of a possible relationship with him that I wasn't ready to let go of yet? Or maybe I liked feeling flattered at the thought of him still calling me all the time? In any case, I didn't tell him about Jeff--just like Jeff didn't tell Becky about me. So who am I to be so upset about it? The only difference is that Jeff actually went out with Becky while we were together, but I am still confident that nothing happened--they went to a movie or dinner or whatever, and he hasn't seen her since (according to the online conversations I saw, he hasn't even talked to her since August). So maybe, just like me, he thought there was a possiblity that he could have a relationship with her, but when they hung out, he realized that either they didn't *click* as well in person or that he loved me more. Or maybe he just fell in love with the idea of her fawning over him all the time (as I read in some of her conversations with him), and then after hanging out with her once he realized that that's all it was?
So yeah...lots of questions...lots of yelling, lots of hugging, lots of tears. It even came out during a fight that I was never afraid he'd been seeing her for a relationship, but that it would have been purely sexual. After all, if he could find some hot, skinny girl to sleep with and still have me for a serious relationship (i.e., to "take home to Mom"), why wouldn't he? Talk about all of my own personal insecurities pouring out. He was a good boy, though, and told me that my body size didn't matter to him at all (which he has told me before--bless the sweet boys when they actually say something right ).
Very recently (mostly yesterday), I came to the conclusion that it all shouldn't matter so much to me. Men are highly imperfect--that's why we are here to fix the thing that they mess up. They don't think like we do. He has probably not given any of this a second thought since the day we fought about it, whereas I can't go a single day without it popping into my head. Anyway, the conclusion I came to that it shouldn't matter came to me because I was looking at Christmas pictures. I remembered how he acted with all of my little cousins--he's really good with kids. He's also very good at saving money. He's also funny, hard working, and very affectionate. I have decided that he is so many good things that I need to just let this one thing slide. I need to focus on the good and allow him this one moment of imperfection. I will not forget it--if I ever find any signs of possible cheating again, there will be he!! to pay. I will forgive, but I will not forget.
Right now, Jeff and I are still living together. We have this connection where we can playfully bicker about pretty much everything (which I enjoy since I am both extremely stubborn and sarcastic), and I'm not sure I could have that kind of relationship with anyone else. I still love him, and he tells me every day that he loves me. He lives with me, he sleeps in my bed, he eats whatever I cook without complaining, he has met my entire extended family, and I have met his friends and family--we've been together for almost 2 years, so if this one incident is my biggest concern, then I guess we're pretty lucky, right?
Does that make the record books for longest post ever? Do you think I am absolutely insane, or does it sound like after 2 months of obsessing over this one thing and reanalyzing our relationship from every angle, I am finally making some sense?
Well I think that you are justified in your feelings of anger and pain, and I agree with what you said about his good points. I would give him the benefit of the doubt, if he's a cheater he'll do it again and you can sort him/it out then, if he's a good guy then hang onto him. My first husband was terrible with women, I even think there were some men !!!! even though hubby no.2 is a good guy I still have doubts, but only for a second or if its pmt!!!! Give him a chance and see how it goes, I hope you stay happy together.
Oh wow...I'd say after hearing all of his good qualities to give him another chance. Those "good guys" are few and far between. And I agree with voodoo1...if he's a cheater, he'll do it again. I wish you both good luck, and hope something doesn't happen again.
Jillybean, sounds like you are working through your troubles. I had a very serious relationship for 4 years. My first everything and he cheated on me then told me about it and told me that he still wanted to marry me but had to sew his "wild Oats". I was supposed to sit and wait without seeing anyone else or him for that matter while he had fun. It was the stupidest and most painful thing I have been through. I have zero tolerance for trusting. If someone hurts me in that way I don't ever forget. Sometimes, men really do forget. He may have forgotten that he ran into her in the summer or to him maybe it wasn't even a "thing". I know that they think way differently than we do. Things that bother us and eat at us, our men just are many times clueless as to why they bother us. I think you should go with your heart but if you are going to stay with Jeff, for your own sake and his, let go what you thought may have happened in the summer.
My first response to reading your post is DUMP him. My second response is that you obviously love him so much, and with a love like that I think you owe it to yourself to give him another chance. At some time you will need to have a good calm talk with him, one where he doesn't think you are attacking him, and hopefully he will stay calm too and all your questions will be answered.
It's weird, I can commend you for sticking with Jeff, but if I was in your situation, I couldn't. I love Daren more than life itself, but if I ever found out that he was keeping secrets from me about even talking online to another woman I would lose all trust in him. For me, once that trust is gone, I couldn't bare to live wondering what he is doing when he isn't with me. I guess that comes from having my first husband have an affair and leave me. I wasn't in love with him by the time it happened, but it still hurt. So for Daren to do anything untrustworthy, well it would be too much to deal with.
BUT having said that, I really hope you can have a really good talk together about it all, and that in your heart of hearts you will be able to trust him and be in love and happy.
I think one reason I have stayed with him is a chat I had with my mother. I told her about everything and cried to her about it over the phone, and she told me something about her and my father. She said that back before they were married, my father was over in Germany (in the Army), and he thought my mother was cheating on him with one of his brothers. My mother and his brother worked together and would sometimes go out after work, but my mother insisted they were only friends. My parents have now been married for over 31 years, and yet my father STILL brings it up on occassion, and recently, he got so worked up about it that not only did her talk to my mother about it yet again, but he even went to his brother and asked him about it! 31 YEARS LATER! I don't want to be like him (well, in many ways, I do, but not in this case). I don't want to harp on this and let it dwell for years and years. I want to focus on the good things, and if he truly is a dirtbag, I think he'll do it again, ya know?
And I happen to know he's not "doing it again"...or anymore, for that matter. He doesn't know, but I have been bad a couple of times since and have checked his conversation logs on his computer. They go back to about 5 months after we had started dating, and that one conversation with her is the only questionable one I've ever found. He has since removed her from his Buddy List, and even before I found out about it, she had tried to talk to him a couple of times (early October, there were some messages from her that were simply "hey" or "hello"), and he ignored her and did not respond. And believe me, I scanned EVERY SINGLE buddy on his list, even those whose named appeared to be male, and I didn't find any other conversations that would cause me to worry (and since he still hasn't deleted the conversation log with that girl, I don't think he knows where they are stored, so I don't think he would have had the foresight to delete any other innappropriate conversations before I saw them). Also, we have Vonage for our phone line, so I can log in anytime and see every number that has called to or been dialed from our phone, and he doesn't have a cell phone. That was very helpful information when I was being insanely paranoid He also logs onto instant messenger from work, so I can see how long he's been "idle" (away from his desk) before he gets home, so I can usually tell if he was really at work or not when he comes home late. Jeez, I should become a professional stalker, eh? I hate being so paranoid, but a few months of this paranoia have atually proven to be somewhat reassuring. Not only do I know that he's been good, but I know that I can always go back and check these things if I get worried again, ya know?
I feel so guilty when I look on his computer or our phone logs or whatever for stuff like that, but at the same time, I know I would let him look through anything of mine since I have nothing to hide. Like I said, I will keep it in mind, and if I see any other even remotely possible signs of cheating (or even ALMOST cheating), I won't put up with it. However, since I almost did the same thing with Ben, who am I to condemn him for this forever?
if she wants him back shes gonna do everything she can to make u look bad and herself perfect!
heh, lucky for me, this isn't an issue since he doesn't talk to her anymore and she was never a girlfriend to begin with. I don't even think she knows he moved to VA (he lived in MD before).
I'm there with you my friend--only my bf actually DID cheat on me. He broke up with her because he realized that he loved me and didn't want to hurt me, but the damage has been done. The last time they were together she ended up getting pregnant. Anyway--I had forgiven Paul for cheating when it came out that she was pregnant. There's a lot more to it, if you want to find out just PM me and I'll tell you--but as for you--I think you're making the right decision. If you love him then you have to stay and work it out. But--exactly as you're doing--you have to keep your eyes open and make sure that it won't happen again. You're being smart in checking out his accounts and stuff, so don't think that you're being bad. You're protecting yourself and arming yourself with knowledge so keep it up. I'm not saying to follow him or anything (unless something really weird or unusual happens ) but you owe it to yourself to make sure.
Also--I had to LOL at your comment about men being highly imperfect. It's so true. Keep the faith because it sounds to me like Jeff is a keeper. One mistake shouldn't ruin his whole life or your whole life.
Vicki--wow. I can't even imagine what all must be going on in your head all the time. If Jeff had actually cheated on me, I don't know what I'd do. What makes it harder is that we both signed a 1-year lease on our apartment in October, so we are both financially responsible for the place until Nov. 1, 2006. If we were to break up, I have no idea how we would handle that. Of course, if I wanted to break up with him, I would regardless of living situation, but it adds another factor of complication to the matter. And of course, we signed that lease before I found out about this Becky chica
Well I'm still with my bf and I've found out a few things about his "friend". It seems that she was giving another man an "oral exam" if you catch my drift--this summer and there are now serious doubts about whether or not it's my bf's baby. Not just because of that--there are other reasons. So that's good.
The thing is that I found out in the middle of the summer and I sat down and did some HARD thinking and I'm at peace with the decision I made to stay with him. I honestly believe that it's the right decision for me and for him. It's not easy and every day I worry if he's late , but he has also chosen me over his "friend" and the baby. I think that our relationship is worth it. He's never done anything like this before and I don't think that our lives should be ruined because of a mistake. I have forgiven him--but I'm not a stupid person by any means--I'm not forgetting and the trust has to be earned again.
Don't give up on your relationship if you love him and if he loves you. The investigating that you've been doing is proving to you that he really cares and that he's not involved with her. You deserve to be happy with this man and all of a sudden one day you're going to realize that you haven't thought about "Becky" in days and that your trust for Jeff is back at 100%.
It's not easy and every day I worry if he's late , but he has also chosen me over his "friend" and the baby. I think that our relationship is worth it. He's never done anything like this before and I don't think that our lives should be ruined because of a mistake. I have forgiven him--but I'm not a stupid person by any means--I'm not forgetting and the trust has to be earned again.
That's the thing--I'm glad to hear that you trust him again, because I've been thinking about how ling it'll take before this all just goes away and stays out of my head, ya know? I still think about it every day, but I don't get upset about it every day like I used to (no more crying over it--yay!--though that may only be because I've cried myself dry ). My sister was married, and he cheated on her (though he still denies it, but even his parents think he cheated, and 2 weeks after my sister moved out, this new girl moved in who just happened to work with him, so he saw her every day...hmm...), and she said that she had suspected him of cheating earlier, too, but that she believed him when he denied it. I guess I'm just afraid of being that naive girl who believes him and then ends up getting hurt because he really was a pig the whole time, ya know?
It's really nice to hear from someone in a similar position who has learned to forgive, so thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. Every time it pops into my head now, I calmly think about all the things I mentioned before--about how I never told Ben I had a boyfriend; about how even if he did hang out with her (which as far as I can tell only happened once--and believe me, I have scrounged for any details that may lead me to believe it happened more than once!), he didn't sleep with her; about how even after he hung out with her after those conversations, he decided to stay with me and even move in with me (voluntarily very much limiting his freedom, ya know?); and about how even though he had talked to her and hung out with her, he stopped talking to her (as far as I can tell) back in August, which was months before I even found out, so he made his own decision to cut her off, and that really makes me feel a bit better, too (if he just stopped because he got caught, then I would feel it was much less genuine, ya know?).
So anyway, it's still hard, but I am feeling TONS better about it in my head than I was, say, a month ago (or even a week ago, really). Thanks for being helpful and supportive--I think he's worth it, and he's never before (or since) given me reason to not trust or believe him. It was harder then because we lived about an hour and a half apart, so I only saw him on weekends, but now that we live together, I feel a bit more secure about things. Oh, and usually when he comes home late from work it's because he says he had to build shelves or move a bunch of big heavy stuff (he works in a metal shop), and he usually comes home dirty, smelly, and having horrible breath (because they end up ordering sausage and onion pizza for dinner), so I figure if any girl has been with him in that condition, then she deserves to have him But it makes me feel better because it's obvious that he really was at work
LONG response to a friend's question...
I was livid! I honestly thought of packing some of his clothes in a bag and telling him to leave the moment he got home from work. Well, he claims he did NOT cheat on me and said that he has never cheated on a girlfriend before because they were only girlfriends, not wives, so if he wanted to be with someone else, he would break up with his current girlfriend. He also claims that he has not seen this girl in over 2 years, but I know he lied about that because I remember over the summer when he TOLD me he went out with his friend Becky (the girl whose conversation I saw online). Turns out they had had a "fling" in the past (he said he wouldn't even call her an ex-girlfriend, but they did have sex) before he met me, which is fine--what bothered me is that in all the conversations he had with her that I read on his computer, he NEVER once mentioned me or that he had a girlfriend at all. Why would he hide that from her if they were just friends and he had no romantic interest in her?
). 
Do you think I am absolutely insane, or does it sound like after 2 months of obsessing over this one thing and reanalyzing our relationship from every angle, I am finally making some sense?
!!!! even though hubby no.2 is a good guy I still have doubts, but only for a second or if its pmt!!!! 
Anyway--I had forgiven Paul for cheating when it came out that she was pregnant. There's a lot more to it, if you want to find out just PM me and I'll tell you--but as for you--I think you're making the right decision. If you love him then you have to stay and work it out. But--exactly as you're doing--you have to keep your eyes open and make sure that it won't happen again. You're being smart in checking out his accounts and stuff, so don't think that you're being bad. You're protecting yourself and arming yourself with knowledge so keep it up. I'm not saying to follow him or anything (unless something really weird or unusual happens 
It's so true. Keep the faith because it sounds to me like Jeff is a keeper. One mistake shouldn't ruin his whole life or your whole life. 
So that's good.
, but he has also chosen me over his "friend" and the baby. I think that our relationship is worth it. He's never done anything like this before and I don't think that our lives should be ruined because of a mistake. I have forgiven him--but I'm not a stupid person by any means--I'm not forgetting and the trust has to be earned again. 
But it makes me feel better because it's obvious that he really was at work 