There are little bits and pieces of each of your posts that ring true for me. I have been quite successful by not bringing any unhealthy food into my house. None. So in that way, I guess I really could compare myself to an alcoholic. There is still booze at the bars and grocery stores, but as long as they aren't exposed to it on a day-to-day basis, they most likely can abstain. That's what has worked for me, keeping it out of the house.
I have been crazy for the chocolate/sugar combination since I was a child. I could easily eat 5 full-sized 3 Musketeer's bars at a time. No kidding. That was from the time I was 10 y/o. I would save up my tiny sum of babysitting money and walk to the store, buy a package of them and eat them all on the way back home. An eating disorder in the making, for sure. I would even hide the wrappers way back then as I knew it was abnormal behavior. At that time I was thin. I was very active and ate very little normal, healthy food.
No way would I be able to have one little piece of chocolate a day. You can't buy one little piece of chocolate, you have to purchase it in a larger quantity. The larger quantity would be too much for me. I am always in amazement when people say they can do that. (Just eat one piece of chocolate at a time or per day). Truly in awe. Since last June, I have figured out my trigger foods, mainly sugary foods, white carbs, Mountain Dew and pizza, and I don't bring them home. So yes, abstinence with certain foods has worked very well for me. I can go out and eat a small ice cream cone, but bringing home a package of say "skinny cow ice cream sandwiches" wouldn't stand a chance against me.
I agree. This is an interesting topic and I have enjoyed reading the responses.
What's it mean when one minute you want the weight loss more, and the next minute you really want the brownies more.
Lots of interesting thoughts here.
I think the all or nothing approach for me made me tend to binge more. (I can't eat that, I can't eat that, I can't eat that...then boom, I'm eating a whole bag.)
Then, I can also say it's easier for me to just avoid having certain stuff around (baguettes, for instance; bags of potato chips, etc.), just because having it around makes it easier for me to eat it whether I REALLY want it or not, simply bec it tastes good and is pleasurable to eat.
Extreme eating behavior in any direction doesn't feel healthy to me (for me.)
I know what you're saying, Lynn. It makes sense in so many ways. Eating is pleasurable, and when your dealing with weight loss over a long period of time, keeping a longer term goal solidly fixed in your mind over the short term satisfactions -- esp if you're a person who uses food for emotional reasons (like me) -- can be extremely tricky.
So it's the mixed back of eating for pleasure and dealing with anxiety, rewarding myself (I let myself see it as a reward). Plus, I can let NOT eating certain things feel like a deprivation. Discovering healthy foods not loaded with calories, like quinoa for Trazey, for me has been a part of the process. Learning to exercise, and finding types of exercise I like, and developing and building routines I can stick to.
It's so easy to lose my sense of balance, and to feel weak and like a failure when I'm not on plan 100 percent, or not losing weight consistently. This is not only a lifestyle change for me, but a complete mindset change.
I think it's true that a lifetime way of dealing (habits and emotionally), can take lots of work and some time to revamp.
I think words like "abstain" and "avoid" get linked with the word "forbid," and that's not the real issue. I don't really "forbid" myself anything, but I make choices based on consequences (at least I try to).
I chose not to hit myself in the head with a hammer, but not because it's "forbidden." I don't hit myself in the head with a hammer because it would hurt (and possibly worse).
Last night my husband got the Girl Scout cookies he had ordered from a neighbor girl. I ate two Samosas. I chose to eat the cookies and then applied steroid cream to the areas of my face that usually break out.
Even though I sometimes make contrary choices, I still see wheat as something to avoid with good reason. Abstinence is my goal for good reason, but sometimes I fall short and must resort to damage control.
For me, it's about making ALL food choices more deliberate. To steal the Food Allergy & Anaphylaxis Network’s slogan, "Respect every bite."
To use the food/drug analogy, Chocolate/sugar/caffeine/carbs they all have drug-like properties. So before using them, make sure they're the right drug for the job. Don't just pop mystery pills. Make every choice a conscious one.
I knew that those cookies were going to make my evening difficult. I knew that I was going to have the "munchies."
I never experimented with recreational drugs of any kind for a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons I avoided marijuana, was because I was horrified at the prospect of "the munchies." (Yes, I appreciate the irony of being more concerned with the munchies than the mind-altering effects, but munchies ARE a mind-altering effrect).
But if I'm willing to avoid marijuana, at least in part, because of it's appetitie-inducing properties, why is it so odd that I'd also avoid chocolate and high-carb foods for the same reason?
Why am I "doomed to failure" for abstaining from high-calorie, high-carb foods, but not for abstaining from marijuana?
Well I for one don't think you're doomed to failure. I'm not sure why you think because someone disagrees with your method we think you're going to fail. That approach would simply not work FOR ME. If it works FOR YOU than it WORKS full stop! I was simply curious as to the mechanics, because as I said in an earlier post, if abstaining from chocolate was simply a "that's it, I'm never having that again" chat with ourselves, we'd all be 110 pounds no problems ever again.
All I'm saying about the whole situation is that FOR ME, it was all mental. The food is secondary, it wasn't about the food for ME. Once I conquered my issues and realized it, life got a whole lot easier, again for ME.
Well I for one don't think you're doomed to failure. I'm not sure why you think because someone disagrees with your method we think you're going to fail.
I'm not saying that everyone or even anyone here thinks I will fail. I'm refering to the reaction that talking about abstinence gets in general in the real world.
No one here has said to me (in this thread), "That won't work" - but I have gotten that response, and have seen other people get it too - a lot, and not only in the "real world" but even on this website and similar ones. It has been said, and it will continue to be.
I've heard it from friends, family, coworkers, Weight Watcher's members, doctors, TOPS club members, and even on this website and other weight loss sites - and I will continue to hear it until voluntary food-abstinences become an acceptable and main-stream choice.
I shouldn't have to say "I'm allergic" to avoid food pushing. I shouldn't have to defend my choice to eat or not eat any food for any reason, but that's not the world we live in.
We live in a world where it's ok to turn down a joint, even a glass of wine, but not Grandma's brownies (even if it's for the same reason), without having to take a lot of flak for it.
This is another case of my not arguing for myself. I know that abstinence from certain foods is in my best interest. I'm confident in my choices and their success. It's annoying to defend my choice, but it's my choice to do so or not.
My concern is for all the people who would benefit from abstinence (whether permanent or temporary) who will never try it because they've only heard that it's not healthy or that it can't work.
I never gave low-carb dieting a chance, for that reason. I avoided it for more than 3 decades. If my doctor hadn't recommended it (and if I hadn't gotten a second opinion recommending it) I still would be avoiding the only plan that has worked for weight loss and hunger/control and for symptom relief of pain/joint and other issues, because "common wisdom" still says it's not healthy and can't work.
My concern is for all the people who would benefit from abstinence (whether permanent or temporary) who will never try it because they've only heard that it's not healthy or that it can't work.
that's a really interesting statement to me, virtually EVERYONE I know HAS tried it?! I thought that was everyone's 'go to' idea?? I know it was mine when I first started, and like I said, almost every single dieter i know has done abstaining???? I don't think people are afraid of it, or don't try it???
oh well, like so many things in life, we'll all have to agree to disagree and stick to what works for US, because ultimately that's the only thing we can control and know for any certainty that we're right!
We'll check in on this topic same time next year and see where we everyone is on this subject again, it's a date! LOL
that's a really interesting statement to me, virtually EVERYONE I know HAS tried it?! I thought that was everyone's 'go to' idea?? I know it was mine when I first started, and like I said, almost every single dieter i know has done abstaining???? I don't think people are afraid of it, or don't try it???
My take on that was, that a lot of people who diet/calorie count, do try to fit stuff in like those 100 calorie packs, one piece of chocolate at the end of the day, a pizza "cheat day". That's what I always did when dieting before, keeping those cravings alive and in full swing, never appreciating that FOR ME, one little pack, piece, pizza day, was keeping me right in the cycle that I feel (again, for me) can be broken by just staying away from that kind of stuff *almost* all the time.
^^ oh sure, I know people do that - I mean the ones (myself included) who quit sugar in its entirety cold turkey, or cereal, or potatoes, all sorts of stuff, gave it up completely. Sometimes for a low-carb diet or just because it was a food that they felt unsafe around, i mean those folks. Almost everyone I know has tried that at some point.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with kaplods. I am at the point where I have to almost eliminate specific carbs from my diet because I seem to eat/binge horribly afterwards. Even when I am very careful and plan, it is very difficult. I really wanted to avoid totally eliminating anything from my diet because it falls into my black and white thinking and I don't want to ever feel like I can't have something, but I am going have to strongly consider it. If I have something sweet (like cookies, which are my favorite thing in the world), my brain will tell me that I have to eat more. It's the same for alcohol. After I leave the bar, I head right to CVS for junk food. I try to plan for it by eating anything sweet late at night knowing I will go to bed and hope the cravings subside by morning, but there have been times that I've jumped in the car at 1am because the cravings wouldn't allow me to sleep.
Low carb is, in fact, the *only* eating method that has ever given me relief from binge eating issues and cravings. South Beach was very successful for that reason, until I thought I could get away with getting a pecan coconut chocolate Blizzard ice cream and "just eating the nutty parts" and throwing out the rest (because you know, nuts are healthy) or that I could smear a block of sugar free chocolate and a spoonful of peanut butter on a sugar free fudgesicle 4x a day and make it work. When I started doing that kind of crazy finagling with my eating, I regained the weight. I did Medifast for a solid 5 months with no cheating or cravings or binges because ALL I ate was 5 low GI packets, lean meat, and vegetables with a measured fat. NO carby or sugary stuff. THAT kind of cold turkey worked for me.... sugar withdrawal headaches for 3 days yes, but it *worked*. Yet even as I lost the weight and my doctor sang the praises, people hassled me about what I was doing. People said it couldn't work because I "should" eat healthy whole grains and I "should" have a piece of cake once in awhile. And when I listened and had a piece of cake, I went insane with the cravings and have struggled since. I am cutting the grains, occasional cake, full fat dairy etc back OUT even though people tell me it "can't work" to abstain from those things... because I know it DOES work for me and relieve my binge eating issues.
I think different ways and methods work for each person. We have to respect that, and each of us try different things for ourselves until something clicks.
My experience may not be typical at all, but when I was losing well, I was perfectly able to eat sugary carby foods without having a binge-- a single dessert here, a bite of a cupcake there, NO PROBLEM. No triggering binging, nothing. And when I did start creeping toward binging again, it was the behavior that started first, not the food choice. I started with crunchy salty things, pumpkin seeds, then flax seeds, then pistachios....
For me it is NOT the food, it's the food behavior that is an issue....
that's a really interesting statement to me, virtually EVERYONE I know HAS tried it?! I thought that was everyone's 'go to' idea?? I know it was mine when I first started, and like I said, almost every single dieter i know has done abstaining???? I don't think people are afraid of it, or don't try it???
I agree with what you're saying here, but we're "both right," because we're talking about two very different mindsets or definitions of "abstinence."
Everyone tries "temporary abstinence," but very few go in with the idea that permanent or even "indefinite" change, is desirable or even possible.
The "go to idea" is "don't eat x, y, and z until you lose the weight, and then you can eat (at least some of) them again."
It's like someone saying, "I don't have a problem with drugs, I can quit any time I want to, I've done it a thousand times before." Or "I gave it up for Lent, which proves I don't have a real problem."
It's the universal assumption that only temporary abstinence is possible, that I'm arguing against. People "try it" and then decide that it isn't possible, because it was difficult, or they didn't like it, or everyone told them it was unhealthy...
None of those "reasons" are reasons to continue or discontinue abstinence. You continue abstinence (whether it be smoking or chocolate) if your life is better when those things are not in your life. Your physical and mental health are benefiting. You don't discontinue abstinence because you didn't like it, or because anyone says it's unsustainable, you discontinue abstinence because (and if and only if) you find that you don't suffer negative consequences because of it. If adding it back in causes negative consequences, then take it back out.
But that's not what people are encouraged to do. We're encouraged to learn to "deal with" or work around the negative consequences.
In our current culture, you can choose to give up almost everything, but carbs and sugar just because you want to. Tell people you've sworn of sex or dating forever, and they'll empathize (even if they're convinced you'll change your mind), but they're not going to send a prostitute to your house.
Tell someone you've sworn of carbs and sugar, and they'll tell you that you're ruining your life and offer you cake.
I have never been good at moderation either. Be it food, alcohol, work, play...you just name it. I know I have to learn moderation and quit this "all out" or "barely anything". Not that I'm glad to hear others have this problem but at least I feel like I can "talk" about it here and others get it.
LOL I agree...Moderation? I like what a previous poster said about choosing the brownies over the healthy lifestyle. I don't mean I Like it (the act of choosing the brownies). LOL I mean I understand that....I really wish I could STOP that! ;-) I've decided I am going to start with the no chips first. My husband (for once) didn't encourage the moderation...I think he is finally getting that just isn't something I can do.I'm not sure how long I should abstain from them before I stop with something else. Any suggestions?
I am interested in learning why these things are different:
I can quit smoking cold turkey and forever - total abstinence
I can decline alcohol for months and months and 99% of the time have just one drink when I do have it - extreme moderation
But I can't apply this mindset to food.
I can't imagine not have sugary desserts ever again.
I can't decline sugary desserts for months and months and 99% of the time I have more than one serving when I do have it.
Why can't I muster the same discipline? Did I use it up with cigarettes and booze?
for Trazey, for me has been a part of the process. Learning to exercise, and finding types of exercise I like, and developing and building routines I can stick to.
