I really think this is an individual thing - some people need to swear off of it forever, do it, and are very successful, much like a recovering alcoholic. Others are able to have things in moderation. Personally I can have things in moderation...I am a slave to my calorie budget, and if I want something, I fit it in and have only what my calories will allow. I don't know why I'm able to do that, but I am. Perhaps I'm lucky. I don't know where this ability was my whole life. But for those who one bite is a slippery slope to many many bites, they are better off just saying no. God knows I say no to a ton of things now...and saying no is so worth the results!!

so far i have been able to have things on moderation..my sister had curly fries from arbys the other day, andi limited myself, or when we had a bag of chocolate last month, i took one serving only..yum yummy dove caramel.

obviously i haven't always practiced moderation, i wouldn't be 300+ pounds if i did..as long as i am on a diet, and seeing downward motion on the scale. but i am on a pretty loose diet..right now my calorie goal is just to stay under 2000, and as long as i can loose on that, im good. so that allows me a little more freedom. i could never get an order of curly fries for myself..the calories are outrageous!!! but i could go get a couple of jr roast beefs at 200 calories each

now i don't trust myself with say dominoes pizza i truly truly don't think this stage in my diet, i would be able to have only one or two slices..probably couldn't stop at 3 either. so for now anyways it is a boxed out food...

i have actually been reading some about this in the thin commandments. about boxing in a food, or boxing it out.

everyone is different, you just have to find what works for you and respect what works for other people.

This is weird for me. I had to "detox" for quite a while. I have certain rules as far as sweets. I do not buy them and bring them into the house. I haven't allowed myself milk chocolate since Halloween.

However, I can go out and have an off-plan gourmet dinner with a dessert and be fine, or splurge and have a couple of glasses of wine on the weekend and it doesn't send me into a tailspin. I have been practicing moderation, because it is a skill I am going to have to learn for maintenance.

For instance, my Mom's b-day was last week, DH and I are taking her out to dinner and going to have cake and frozen yogurt. I'll have a small slice and work it into my calories. At restaurants, I always strive for the best choice, and do nothing deep fried. It's like I've reprogrammed myself, but this has taken MONTHS.

THIS!!!!! I agree 100% that practicing moderation takes a skill that comes with time.


I also agree whole-heartedly with that. Society teaches us so many things that are totally wrong when it comes to dieting.

Great post!

For me...I'm trying to learn what my trigger foods are and avoid them.

Candy is a huge one...and I need to just not eat it. It's easy to not count a couple of peanut butter cups.

I haven't eaten fast food since October...and I can honestly say...I have no desire to.


I've limited Pizza and Wings to once a month...maybe. We used to do it once a week...and while I could fit it in...not a great choice and led to much worse choices.


I always have low fat/ weight watchers desserts. I love dessert, but I make sure it's a better choice. I'm an ice cream girl...and I am sattisfied with a WW sized dessert...it's perfectly portioned. I'm coming to find that the normal sering size is satisfying...but I never take that much, but if it's already portioned out for me...I'm fine.


I haven't had cheesecake since I started WW. I did find a low fat recipe which I will try, but I just can't do the real thing right now.


It's all about finding a balance...not all junk food temps me...some does. You have to do whatever works for you...if never eating it again is the only way to do it...then good for you. Everyone has to do what works best for them.

There are certain foods that I am totally adicted to, and I have learned to use a substitute. For example, if I buy a large container of Breyers' Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream, I honestly will not be able to go to sleep until I have polished it off. I now buy the Weight Watchers small cups of MCC ice cream; eating one satisfies my craving without putting me into the binge mode. I cannot have Dove milk chocolate squares in the house, so I buy their dark chocolate ones, and one or two satisfies me. It is weird. But, I am the same with drinking. I can be at a party and have seltzer water; but, if I have one drink, I will have many more, then will binge on food.

I don't think there necessarily has to be a lot of hard work, 12 steps and therapy to food addiction. There can be, but there doesn't have to be.

It's important to realize that abstincence isn't "only for addicts." There are many reasons for abstinence that have nothing to do with addiction.

Even if you see it as "addiction" you don't necessarily have to see it as an addiction that requires hard work and intense therapy to cure. We certainly do not look at caffeine and tobacco addiction that way (but we also don't give anyone a hard time for giving up caffeine or tobacco either).

Just because several people see food as a drug, doesn't mean they see it as the same type of drug. A candy bar might be heroine to one person, marijuana to another or coffee or tobacco to another.

We know tobacco is addictive, but we also don't expect smokers to join a 12-step program and go through decades of therapy to quit smoking (though some do, that's pretty rare), and when have you ever heard of someone going into therapy or rehab to give up caffeine. Though people swear off caffeine "forever" all of the time (for some people it really will be forever, and for others it will be many relapses planned and not).





For me, I see my food issues more like nicotine and caffeine addiction (there were times in my life, when food was more like heroine - but those were days when I included far, far more carbs in my daily life). When candy is in my life daily, and I'm not restricting calories and carbohydrates in some way, high glycemic carbs are more like heroine. When I'm eating my trigger foods rarely or never, they're more like nicotine or caffeine. It "pays" for me to keep my addiction in the caffeine/nicotine category and out of the heroine category.

Sometimes I do take a bite of something I didn't really plan for - the equivalent of a "puff" or more off a friend's cigarette, but I try to get back on the abstinence path as soon as possible. And I do best when I don't intentionally try to incorporate the equivalent of "smoking" into my day.


I don't guilt over relapses any more than my husband does when relapses into smoking. I just get back on track. Some foods choices make that easier than others.


Some foods and some eating habits I have to see as heroine - never a good idea to intentionally incorporate into my life.

Most of my abstinence foods though I see more like scratch-off lottery tickets, something I'm currently abstaining from, for a specific reason - budget consciousness. I have no plan to take up lottery tickets at some point in the future, but neither do I have a plan to "for the rest of my life never buy a lottery ticket."


With food, the potential addiction strength really can run the gamut of severity from chocolate, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, codeine, lottery tickets, marijuana or heroine . People choosing abstinence, may do so for extremely powerful reasons, or just for casual ones. All of them should be respected.

Most people won't (thankfully) have a heroine response to sugar, but for many, if not most it will be like coffee, cigarettes and alcohol - possible for most folks to do "moderately," but not required for quality of life.


Giving up sugar shouldn't be seen as any stranger than giving up caffeine or cigarettes.

Whether your answer is moderation or not, the problem with making absolute rules, no lists and abstinence is not the idea themselves but what to do when that fails.

The problem with all-or-nothing mentality is that for MANY women, if a slip-up occurs, it's all over. All the work, all the effort, all the training is thrown out because "I obviously screwed up, so why even try?" And it can take months to get back on board.

The same thing can happen in moderation if we don't account for the times when an item becomes a trigger -- do we decide to throw in the towel or keep going? Should we throw the plan out because "it's obviously not working."

I've seen women go from couch to working out every day and then they skip a workout and they never go back to the gym. I've seen women who lose weight, binge on a favorite food and deem the whole eating plan a failure. This is not helpful. We have to learn that like life, this is not going to be simple, binary or black and white. We're complex people and although we're told "it's as simple as calories in, calories out," it's really more complex than that.

I can't thank every single one of you enough your thoughts on this thread! I am really getting a lot out of it.

Although "all-or-nothing" mentalties are often associated with abstinence and addiction, I think there's actually no connection. Oh it definitely can screw up abstinence (by any definition), but even heroine addicts are encouraged to avoid the "all-or-nothing" mentality.

It's just as likely to occur when you're choosing indulgence as when you're choosing abstinence. In fact, some people may find it even more likely with inclusion, because if you haven't defined the demarcation between success and failure, you can see failure whenever you wish your success were just a tad more impressive. "I lost 2 lbs," becomes "I only lost two pounds." That one little word, "only" instantly transforms success into failure.

"I obviously screwed up, so why even try?" can be used as an argument for and against abstinence. While it "kind of makes sense" to think that including chocolate in your life would prevent you from thinking "I obviously screwed up, so why even try?" we wouldn't use that argument with heroine. I think the argument is just as irrational for both.

Casual, "no biggie abstinence" is just as possible as "white-knuckled, tragedy-will insue if I slip even the tiniest bit" abstinence.

Abstinence (or lack there of) is not going to cause or prevent you from thinking "I obviously screwed up, so why even try?" So that's not what your judgement should be based on. Rather, everyone finds that some things are easier to indulge in than avoid, and some things are easier to avoid than to indulge in. Everyone has to decide for themselves which things those are, based on their experiences.

Also people prone to thinking "I obviously screwed up, so why even try" need to learn ways to prevent those thoughts whether or not they choose abstinence.


For me, abstinence AND learning not to think "I obviously screwed up, so why even try" have both been extremely helpful, but different tools. I can't even say which "tool" is the most vital to my current success. I wouldn't want to sacrifice either.

I'm in the moderation camp. Which is funny, because I tend to be an "all or nothing" type of person in other aspects of my life. In previous dieting attempts, I took that "all or nothing" approach and I always failed. Sooner or later, the foods from my "banned" list would come calling, and I'd give in. Once I had that bite of pizza or doughnut, or whatever, that was it. I blew it. I'd eat until I was sick and then I'd give up on the whole thing all together, believing I just didn't have the will power to "diet."

Of course no one loses weight without making changes. When I started out this time, I told myself that things like fast food, etc., were off limits, "for now." Knowing I would and could have them, someday, was enough to keep my "inner child" quiet. Chocolate has NEVER left my diet. From day one, I have allowed myself a small piece of chocolate every day. As along as I account for it (I'm a calorie counter), it's ok. I learned very quickly that "wasting" 70 calories on a fun size candy bar is a much better choice than wasting 300 calories on a chocolate doughnut. Eventually, I actually lost taste preferences for certain things (i.e., I haven't had little debbies for over a year.)

Of course there are still many things I have NOT lost taste for. I still love pizza, but I learned I don't have to eat it every weekend. But when I do eat it (maybe once a month or so), I've learned that I haven't failed just because I indulged. Instead of giving up the next day like I used to, I go right back to my healthy eating and it's all good.

This really works well for vacations, special occassions, etc. Sure, I could have probably lost more weight by now had I not allowed these "cheat" events and stayed "on plan" 100% of the time...but for me, "cheats" ARE part of my plan. This is the way I have to live the REST OF MY LIFE. Might as well practice now

This, of course, is just my experience. It is no more or less valid than anyone else's. The important thing is knowing what works for YOU. If you are truly a food/sugar/carb addict, then yes, it's probably best to abstain. I guess it's kind of like the difference between someone who's truly an alcoholic, and someone who just drinks too much when they go out (but can otherwise go without alcohol in their daily lives....yep, that's me too!)

Very interesting topic though. Thanks for the brain food!

How interesting to read different perspectives on the same problem! Thank you ladies! I would love to hear more from readers!

This thread is so, so full of insights and I haven't even finished reading page 1 yet. I have to read it slowly, to figure it out for ME. I started getting teary eyed as I was reading, because I want so badly to figure out WHAT the heck I need to do to make this weight loss permanent and continued.

What's it mean when one minute you want the weight loss more, and the next minute you really want the brownies more. I sit here and battle in my head over and over because SOME part of me seems to want to make and eat an entire pan of brownies more than I want my health and my weight loss. Of course that is not the rational part. I KNOW I don't want a 15 minute brownie spree more than I want health/good weight, so WHY? Is it addiction? I think addiction is what makes me eat the whole pan instead of one brownie (as Kessler suggests)... I know I cannot eat one brownie. The thought of eating ONE brownie is just ridiculous to me. Like, what's the point? It is gone in a minute. If I am going to eat brownies I AM GOING TO EAT BROWNIES. You know?

I dunno. I am succeeding today, right now, and the scale is going down, but I want to eat junk. I want it all the time, at least lately, and I don't know how on earth to fix that. I did have a time I seemed to be fixed, but maybe I screwed it back up again.

Thank you all for contributing to this thread. And for letting me add my own vent.

I can say, speaking personally, that making "no" rules, is helpful, but only partially so...

I've developed a mental habit over the past two years, where, for example, when I walk into the grocery store alone (a former trigger) I mentally repeat to myself "no , I'm not going to buy any candy. no, I'm not here to buy something to eat right now..." And I find that very helpful.

What really bugs me is that there is this element of my self-control that feels like "magic." Sometimes, it's just easy for me, really effortless-- I am just coming off a run like that where I turned up my nose at chocolate without a moment's hesitation for almost two years...

But, right now, every day is a struggle... I'm having trouble keeping my desire to graze in check and I'm struggling with it every single day.

Why the difference? I don't know. I wish I did.

But I can say that I cling to my "don't eat that" rules by the tips of my fingernails...

There simply is no place in my life for eating sugary carbs-- I've eaten enough one pound bags of jelly beans and M&Ms to last me several lifetimes. And like Lynn, for me, eating one or two M&Ms-- well, there just would be NO POINT.

But, I suspect, from hanging around the boards for quite a while that those of us who are true binge eaters may really fall into a separate category. I got fat eating a pretty normal and healthy diet and then secretly binging on mostly candy or very high calorie treats in very large quantities.

I think I got fat as a side effect of a full-blown eating disorder, and so I'm not sure the strategies that seem to work for others will necessarily work for me.

I suspect that may be why our approaches tend to be all over the map-- I'm not sure you can compare a person who is fat due to an eating disorder and a person who is fat due to eating too much and the wrong amounts of food, but who does not have an eating disorder.

Ah, dear ubergirl, so true. I always sort of laugh when people talk about eating a "few" M&M's because that is so foreign to me. Let me be honest... eating one normal sized little bag of M&M's seems pointless to me. In fact THAT sometimes keeps me from the binge. I'll be in the checkout, looking at those bags. And I KNOW that to really get my "fix" I would need way, way, more candies than are in that little bag. Maybe 3 or 4 bags minimum and even then I would want more, so I tell myself "listen, if you start this you will end up eating 5,000 calories because one little bag of M&M's does ZERO for you!" so I don't buy it. It IS an eating disorder. For sure.

I hate that I went for months (on Medifast) with zero cravings or desires to binge, and then I screwed around with it so much over the winter going off plan and eating junk that I am struggling again. I want that BACK. I blogged at one point that I sat by a warm loaf of bread at a restaurant and it was "like a rock" to me. No temptation, not even a second glance. Now, I have to almost grip the table to avoid the bread. I want it... I want the whole freaking loaf. I always thought I was unfixable, and then I went for months feeling "fixed" and now, ugh. Going back to the struggle sucks!

I have ONE nugget of success though. I was a big time McDonalds binger. My standard was to have lunch and dinner at home, but at 2:30 on my way to get my kids from school I'd go to McD's and get a supersized Big Mac meal PLUS soe cookies or a sundae. I did it a LOT. Like, 3-4 times a week sometimes. Issues. And when I cut back I still could not fathom a life without McDonalds. Yet I quit McDs and almost all other fast food completely about a year and a half ago and I have NO desire to ever eat McD's again. Oh I want fries and junk from other places, like diners, but not there. What did it take? Finding a freaking dead fly in my food. And suddenly I was cured.

Ah, so much to learn.