Ideal Protein Diet - what makes the IP forum different from other diet forums?




65X65
04-12-2014, 08:33 AM
From time to time the philosophy of this forum gets a revisiting that banters about and even beats up the benefits of the kind of support which is available on this forum and what each member and poster hopes to get from the format.

Support. That is what we are all about and why we find ourselves here. Some new-comers want information only. Some need on going heavy duty support. Some want a lot of support initially and then take off running, others are more about sharing their journey, and are excited to find a community where that can happen. All great reasons to participate, and after almost 18 months on here I feel I know a lot of really wonderful, smart, strong, insightful and dedicated people. Some long-haulers like myself, feel the need to offer help because that is who they are...others feel the obligation to "pay it forward" or there is the need now to connect regularly with the friends made along one's own journey.

But the big deal and what makes a unique place here on 3FCs is we are not so much about what happens when one gives into cravings and crashes....then has to restart.

For sure there are reboot and the 90% threads where most of those convos are directed. Any other diet forum entertains those goings-on intermixed with every other topic and convo. Keeping that separate on the IP forum has allowed us to create striving for the 100% culture that is needed and not available ANYWHERE else. All other diets allow for cheats...they can be adjusted and hijacked to fix a stray quickly. Those diets did not work for a large number of people on IP. The forums where support is given for needing to allow for weekend transgressions, planned weekends, holidays birthdays or anniversaries are in abundance...they are the norm. Regularly people fall off the wagon and it's acceptable to do it, talk openly about it, and get back on. Cravings are part of any diet. IP for the most part reduces the physical craving but the psychological/emotional and social pieces of eating are still battles that need to be conquered. With the physical piece being addressed nicely for most after a few days/weeks...the opportunity to get the other pieces together for a successful maintenance and life ever after are the bonus for those who recognize and are looking for the tools to get prepared for that golden part of happily ever after. Over and over we see reference to " My Last Diet".

For this reason, it is important to keep most of the threads on the IP forum clean. There is the reboot where we can talk about the difficulties in staying in line and not drifting far from goal and what our own maintenance SHOULD look like. Which unlike P1-2, maintenance is not going to be the same for everyone. There is the 90% place where those who are OK with going a little slower or feel the need to confess how they are doing this with less than staying on plan. They might help someone who wants to know how many days and how much off plan before there is a noticeable shift in gain or ability to get back on track. This is real support need as well, but honestly...these needs can be addressed on any diet forum. That piece is part of any other diet and therefore is openly expected, addressed and a guilt free gimme zone.

From time to time with new participants this difference comes up, and the creation of places for these other postings questions and support is available. Perhaps we need to incorporate why this philosophy needs to be respected somewhere in the stickies. It is not the intent of anyone here to judge or ban anyone else. However; the need for the clean support on IP is critical. It is not something that can be found anywhere else on 3 FCs or the internet. It is worth preserving. We have people who have lost a significant amount of weight AND maintained the loss and there is one common denominator in the ones who can claim both of these accomplishments. That is lifestyle changes made easier by taking advantage of the emotional support that can drive a new life because the physical element of IP (ketogenesis) allows the reshaping of the mindset for that" happily ever-after" we all say we want.

Kudos to those who recognize and strive to preserve this. It is very special.

kathie


Ruth Ann
04-12-2014, 08:55 AM
Nothing to add to your great post 65 - just a great big :hug: for you!

JLUS
04-12-2014, 09:09 AM
Well said 65... THANK YOU!!


AmberLS
04-12-2014, 10:48 AM
I have gotten amazing support from this group and I totally get what you're saying! In my own house my boyfriend claims that no diet works without cheat days so he doesn't quite get it. I'm two months OP tomorrow and I may not be able to say that if it wasn't from the stern support from the 100% OPers!

65X65
04-12-2014, 11:07 AM
I have gotten amazing support from this group and I totally get what you're saying! In my own house my boyfriend claims that no diet works without cheat days so he doesn't quite get it. I'm two months OP tomorrow and I may not be able to say that if it wasn't from the stern support from the 100% OPers!

Thanks Amber...This is the place for people who HAVE had "The talk" with themselves. We are not offended then when another member reminds us... If one has NOT had the talk with one's self...the tendency to become offended at the attitude here can be a bit of a surprise.

No offense intended...but no apologies for the culture here either.

catlady1981
04-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Thanks Amber...This is the place for people who HAVE had "The talk" with themselves. We are not offended then when another member reminds us... If one has NOT had the talk with one's self...the tendency to become offended at the attitude here can be a bit of a surprise.

No offense intended...but no apologies for the culture here either.

65x65: I completely agree with everything you said.

I have gotten tremendous support from this forum and I am very grateful for the knowledge and encouragement I have gotten from long haulers as well as newbies like myself. I think that when you decide to make this the last diet, as well as incur the expense, it makes no sense to cheat yourself. That is how I view it. I have been completely OP since starting 6 weeks ago. I even gave away my craft beer stash! That was major. My health and long term goals are what I am focusing on right now. I think you have to reach a point where you say to yourself, "I'm worth it". :)

65X65
04-12-2014, 12:35 PM
65x65: I completely agree with everything you said.

I have gotten tremendous support from this forum and I am very grateful for the knowledge and encouragement I have gotten from long haulers as well as newbies like myself. I think that when you decide to make this the last diet, as well as incur the expense, it makes no sense to cheat yourself. That is how I view it. I have been completely OP since starting 6 weeks ago. I even gave away my craft beer stash! That was major. My health and long term goals are what I am focusing on right now. I think you have to reach a point where you say to yourself, "I'm worth it". :)

Absolutely. The other significant difference I wish to point out..is the difference between and unplanned slip and a planned cheat. These are two entirely different psychological events. They have nothing in common.

A slip----Very human. And we all strive to be better in everything we do...all the time. Sometimes a momentary weakness occurs. Sometimes well intentioned eating away from our own control results in getting something we would not have chosen. We find out the meat was "brinned" in a sugar solution ... after the fact. The Veggies were tossed in melted butter. Someone who slips...generally punishes themselves mentally way beyond anything anyone else could say or do.

Planned cheats by someone on the other hand, should incur no remorse. And an adult who chooses this plan of action should not feel they need to explain. This is CERTAINLY not sinning..but it is an intentional digression from the plan. The bottom sentence on the paper work given to me by my IP office was capitalized:

"NO CHEATING FOR THIS TO WORK...HAVE A GREAT WEEK!"

Staying on plan becomes a week by week effort. In truth day by day. For many and esp at the beginning it is hour by hour. Finding support to do that is MUCH harder and less abundant than being loosey goosey with this or any diet. If it was so easy to do there would be no need to find like minded strangers and souls somewhere to help followers manage and encourage strict adherence.

Me thinks some do protest too much.Too often.

SylviesGirl
04-12-2014, 12:56 PM
I can say that the reason this plan has worked for me has been the 100% OP requirement. As was described on another thread, I am clearly an "abstainer." I can go without anything. The stricter, the better. When I allow myself too much leeway and things are blurry, I am in trouble.

I went a couple of months without coming back to this forum, mainly due to being busy and partly because I wanted to see what I had within myself to keep myself going rather than relying too heavily on this forum to keep me motivated and focused. I found that I could do it on my own. I did not NEED this forum to keep me OP. That said, I wanted to come back because I am forever grateful to those who helped me get "over the hump" when I first started and felt the need to contribute to that community and "pay it forward" as you have aptly described.

Upon returning a few weeks back, I did noticed a markedly more relaxed atmosphere as far as doing this plan and being "OP." A few times, I thought that a new Phase 1 protocol must have been issued because things being shared were clearly not OP as I knew it. When I found that it hadn't been, I was a bit confused. That's why I spoke up yesterday regarding the idea of a Wendy's chili salad for a meal replacement. I now see that it was one of my pals, Liana who said it and that she meant it in regard to later phases and maintenance. In context, that whole thing makes more sense now, and I hope I did not offend her by saying what I said. I think she understands that P1 is a whole 'nuther ballgame and, at least imo, the stricter you follow it, the better.

I guess I'm just rambling here, but wanted to lend my support to the idea that IP and this forum are different. Strict adherence is really the only way to go and it IS the dominant culture of this forum. Here-here. :hat:

65X65
04-12-2014, 01:04 PM
I can say that the reason this plan has worked for me has been the 100% OP requirement. As was described on another thread, I am clearly an "abstainer." I can go without anything. The stricter, the better. When I allow myself too much leeway and things are blurry, I am in trouble.

I went a couple of months without coming back to this forum, mainly due to being busy and partly because I wanted to see what I had within myself to keep myself going rather than relying too heavily on this forum to keep me motivated and focused. I found that I could do it on my own. I did not NEED this forum to keep me OP. That said, I wanted to come back because I am forever grateful to those who helped me get "over the hump" when I first started and felt the need to contribute to that community and "pay it forward" as you have aptly described.

Upon returning a few weeks back, I did noticed a markedly more relaxed atmosphere as far as doing this plan and being "OP." A few times, I thought that a new Phase 1 protocol must have been issued because things being shared were clearly not OP as I knew it. When I found that it hadn't been, I was a bit confused. That's why I spoke up yesterday regarding the idea of a Wendy's chili salad for a meal replacement. I now see that it was one of my pals, Liana who said it and that she meant it in regard to later phases and maintenance. In context, that whole thing makes more sense now, and I hope I did not offend her by saying what I said. I think she understands that P1 is a whole 'nuther ballgame and, at least imo, the stricter you follow it, the better.

I guess I'm just rambling here, but wanted to lend my support to the idea that IP and this forum are different. Strict adherence is really the only way to go and it IS the dominant culture of this forum. Here-here. :hat:

When the water gets muddy no one can tell how deep the pond is.

Ruth Ann
04-12-2014, 01:14 PM
Yep SylviesGirl - you got it exactly, I will be forever grateful to the people here when I first started out who showed me that staying 100% OP was the way to make this work - to get the "most bang for my buck" so to speak.

I didn't always want to hear it and did my share of pouting about being "deprived" but once my mindset changed to "I can do this" it opened up a whole new world for me. Instead of worrying about what I couldn't have, I found a bunch of delicious food I could have. I learned new ways to cook, found new veggies, came up with creative ways to work through the hungries - all with the great support and advice here.

All we can do is offer what worked for us, help keep others on track when they are tempted to go off plan or have unintentionally gone off plan and keep sharing the knowledge. Whether someone uses the information or does whatever the heck they want is up to them. I really don't care which way they go - I do care that they have all the information and hopefully make decisions after weighing all that information and deciding what is the best course for them.

This is a great board with a lot of wonderful people who are willing to share their time and experiences to try to help other or celebrate the successes. That, in my opinion, is the most important aspect and makes this a great resource.

Ruth Ann
04-12-2014, 01:18 PM
Oh, how well you have stated this, 65X65, and I could not agree more.

I am so appreciative of the difference in working on IP with the goal of 100% OP. I know that does mean we are all actually 100% for all sorts of reasons, part of that for people like me is the struggle to deal with stress and emotions.

But I do work on the principle of being 100% every day. I do not plan cheats, instead, I plan to work around whatever might bring me into contact with a potential cheat. That is a skill I need to master for all the years for the rest of my life.

In order to succeed (I am not at goal yet but at almost -100 pounds, I am getting there!) I must plan and calculate how I am going to handle special occasions, big birthdays, family gatherings, office parties, travel, etc so that I do not throw my body or my mind into a tizzy.

This is not an abstract thing on my part; those who have been here since I started in August know that I have fallen several times and it can be a very hard and lengthy time getting back up. If I knew how to successfully deal with my emotions and the curves which life throws, I would not have weighed close to 300 pounds. So I do know how this works - it works when every fiber of my being goes for the goal of being intensely and reflectively 100% OP.

You know we're all proud of you schenectady for the truly hard work you put into staying OP and your honesty and reflectiveness if you do stumble. You'll get there, you are a strong woman! Besides, it's probably too late to return all those adorable clothes you bought! :D

65X65
04-12-2014, 04:30 PM
Oh, how well you have stated this, 65X65, and I could not agree more.

I am so appreciative of the difference in working on IP with the goal of 100% OP. I know that does mean we are all actually 100% for all sorts of reasons, part of that for people like me is the struggle to deal with stress and emotions.

But I do work on the principle of being 100% every day. I do not plan cheats, instead, I plan to work around whatever might bring me into contact with a potential cheat. That is a skill I need to master for all the years for the rest of my life.

In order to succeed (I am not at goal yet but at almost -100 pounds, I am getting there!) I must plan and calculate how I am going to handle special occasions, big birthdays, family gatherings, office parties, travel, etc so that I do not throw my body or my mind into a tizzy.

This is not an abstract thing on my part; those who have been here since I started in August know that I have fallen several times and it can be a very hard and lengthy time getting back up. If I knew how to successfully deal with my emotions and the curves which life throws, I would not have weighed close to 300 pounds. So I do know how this works - it works when every fiber of my being goes for the goal of being intensely and reflectively 100% OP.

Scenectady...you know how much I value your opinion and experience. Many of us have stated, this forum and the diet..in that order... are about what is in your head...then what goes in your mouth.

Thanks so many of you for your PMs today...WOW!!! I had no idea so many were feeling the same frustration...so am glad I spoke up. Figured it was my turn to get dragged through the mud again in the name of what the needs are for so many. No one ever said "I wish I hadn't tried so hard when reaching an accomplishment"...and having others celebrate success with with you is sweeter when you know how hard you worked, and are happy.

Myself, I miss the fact we see less frequent posts about the NSVs ...and how members planned or were succesful in navigating a holiday or social situation that was challenging.

Drawing strength from each other was what endeared this forum to me early in my journey. Honestly I would not have been able to survive this diet during my mother's illness and passing and my father's surgeries (dealing with it all long distance and the travel) during the year I was trying to lose with out the strong ladies from here ..(and men too...where did they go???) . Some had been on IP for a while...I hope they are having a wonderful life and drop in again to share and encourage. Those members were MY slavation...example and encouragement. They challenged me with out realizing it...that if they could do it...so could I. When I began IP...I think I did not fully grasp the commitment and changes that would need to take place in my life. The daily chat and other threads showed me the real truth to what I needed to sign up for. Forever grateful for that...and that is what really needs to paid forward.

drd1961
04-12-2014, 05:25 PM
65, thanks for this message. You are always kind and full of good information. I almost think that this thread could be sub-titled, why IP is different than other diets. For example, I successfully lost weight on weight watchers years ago. I could have the treats and such, but I do not feel it taught me real healthy, clean(sorry but there simply are foods that are toxic to our bodies) eating, and in the end, it became easier and easier to stray on maintenance. I know others who do quite well on WW and it is a good diet for them. IP is very restrictive, but it really has made me think about what I put in my mouth and how it affects my whole body. Dealing with severe arthritis is not easy and my body is very temperamental. I am in pain all the time, and so I need to make sure that at least what I am eating will make me feel the best that it can. It is the MAIN reason I choice IP, the anti-inflammatory components are necessary. I know people do IP and don't do it 100%, but for me, I don't understand why. I would just do something less expensive like WW and maybe reduce carbs on that diet, not cheat on IP. It makes no financial sense to me and it makes no sense to reduce the effectiveness the foods on this diet have on the body. But that is me.

Again, thanks and have a great weekend!

KookySuki
04-12-2014, 05:43 PM
No matter what diet we choose, everyone is on their own journey and that's why it's great there are diverse threads on this site. People are human and make mistakes. No one on this site deserves to judge or feel superior to others because of the way someone chooses to do IP. Doing alternative products is not technically doing IP, but do those people deserve to be judged? Those products are not on the IP protocol and for some can probably slow weight loss probably as much as an occasional cheat.

We're all adults here and I think the attempts to control the content of these boards needs to stop. I think it's great that there are threads for 100%'ers, 90%'ers, people who started IP in a certain month, etc. We're all different people at different ages, different family structures, and different issues with food, etc. I say that we respect each others' differences and not be so quick to judge or to try to control what is posted on the threads. Some things posted on the boards make me uncomfortable or annoyed, but guess what, I move on to a different thread when that happens. Let's be mature, respectful adults and if you don't agree with a certain thread, just stick to the ones you DO agree with.

I also don't understand what was meant by "cleaning up" the boards. What exactly does that mean? Kicking out the "riff raff" who occasionally cheat and aren't ashamed of it?!

65X65
04-12-2014, 05:46 PM
65, thanks for this message. You are always kind and full of good information. I almost think that this thread could be sub-titled, why IP is different than other diets. For example, I successfully lost weight on weight watchers years ago. I could have the treats and such, but I do not feel it taught me real healthy, clean(sorry but there simply are foods that are toxic to our bodies) eating, and in the end, it became easier and easier to stray on maintenance. I know others who do quite well on WW and it is a good diet for them. IP is very restrictive, but it really has made me think about what I put in my mouth and how it affects my whole body. Dealing with severe arthritis is not easy and my body is very temperamental. I am in pain all the time, and so I need to make sure that at least what I am eating will make me feel the best that it can. It is the MAIN reason I choice IP, the anti-inflammatory components are necessary. I know people do IP and don't do it 100%, but for me, I don't understand why. I would just do something less expensive like WW and maybe reduce carbs on that diet, not cheat on IP. It makes no financial sense to me and it makes no sense to reduce the effectiveness the foods on this diet have on the body. But that is me.

Again, thanks and have a great weekend!


I had someone near and dear (who needs to lose at least 100 lbs) to me say those exact words..."very restrictive"

My response was a gut reaction ..

......"this diet is not nearly as restrictive as being overweight ...

Annik
04-12-2014, 05:48 PM
This thread should be a sticky!

AmberLS
04-12-2014, 05:48 PM
What I've noticed is a few people lately and I'm sure it's always been this way, but they come and they ask questions like they want help and advice and but then they are completely resistant and seem offended when they don't hear what they want to hear I guess.

65X65
04-12-2014, 05:51 PM
No matter what diet we choose, everyone is on their own journey and that's why it's great there are diverse threads on this site. People are human and make mistakes. No one on this site deserves to judge or feel superior to others because of the way someone chooses to do IP. Doing alternative products is not technically doing IP, but do those people deserve to be judged? Those products can slow weight loss as much as a cheat now and then. We're all adults here and I think the attempts to control the content of these boards needs to stop. I think it's great that there are threads for 100%'ers, 90%'ers, people who started IP in a certain month, etc. We're all different people at different ages, different family structures, and different issues with food, etc. I say that we respect each others' differences and not be so quick to judge or to try to control what is posted on the threads. Some things posted on the boards make me uncomfortable, but guess what, I move on to a different thread when that happens. Let's be mature, respectful adults and if you don't agree with a certain thread, just stick to the ones you DO agree with.

There are so many forums for people who adjust diets to their own personality and needs...that work for them...why such a visceral reaction to a safe forum...{not threads...} for a prescribed diet?

No one has made any point as to why that narrow need should not be met and exist. Nada...zipp none.

KookySuki
04-12-2014, 05:58 PM
I been on IP for about 6 months and have lost almost 60 lbs. I've had a few cheats planned and unplanned, but have jumped right back OP right away. I realize this is a "prescribed diet," but why the hostility towards people who make mistakes or have struggles or God forbid decide to eat pizza every once in awhile? I'm thrilled to death with my results and so are my doctor and my coach. A lot of us became overweight because of emotional eating or anxiety/depression, so being critical or stern of someone's mistake or cheat is most likely not going to help that individual.

drd1961
04-12-2014, 05:59 PM
I had someone near and dear (who needs to lose at least 100 lbs) to me say those exact words..."very restrictive"

My response was a gut reaction ..

......"this diet is not nearly as restrictive as being overweight ...

Oh Lordy Lordy, Amen to that!

drd1961
04-12-2014, 06:10 PM
I been on IP for about 6 months and have lost almost 60 lbs. I've had a few cheats planned and unplanned, but have jumped right back OP right away. I realize this is a "prescribed diet," but why the hostility towards people who make mistakes or have struggles or God forbid decide to eat pizza every once in awhile? I'm thrilled to death with my results and so are my doctor and my coach. A lot of us became overweight because of emotional eating or anxiety/depression, so being critical or stern of someone's mistake or cheat is most likely not going to help that individual.

First of all, I think it is perceived hostility. Second, it is not about people who make mistakes or struggle, or even eat a pizza once in awhile. Heaven knows I can X all of the above.

I am going to tell a story, which is kind of absurd an not true, but I think it points out what the problem is.

I have a co-worker who noticed I lost weight and asks me for advise. I explain in simpler terms that carbs are restricted and the focus is on lean protein, and veggies. The co-worker says, oh, I have chocolate cake every day for lunch. How can I do that and do your diet to get fabulous results? I say, well, you cannot have chocolate cake every day and do this diet. You have to give up the chocolate cake and then once you lose the weight, have the chocolate cake every once in a while. Co-worker says,I cannot give up chocolate cake for lunch, but tell me please how can I do this diet, I need your help. I say, sorry, if you make the choice of chocolate cake every day, then you really need to find something else, because it simply does not work with this diet. Good luck, I hope you find something that works. Co-worker - boo, you are mean and unsupportive and do not understand my need for chocolate cake everyday. I cannot give that up.

Ok, that is all really silly and to the extreme, but co-worker is not making a mistake, and intentionally choosing to eat chocolate cake every day. The co-worker is struggling and unhappy, but until co-worker decides to make a change, nothing can really help. That is what I see in some people. They want the chocolate cake, they want it condoned, and then get miffed if they are told, um no, not on the diet.

OK, that is my fairy tale for the day..

KookySuki
04-12-2014, 06:20 PM
First of all, I think it is perceived hostility. Second, it is not about people who make mistakes or struggle, or even eat a pizza once in awhile. Heaven knows I can X all of the above.

I am going to tell a story, which is kind of absurd an not true, but I think it points out what the problem is.

I have a co-worker who noticed I lost weight and asks me for advise. I explain in simpler terms that carbs are restricted and the focus is on lean protein, and veggies. The co-worker says, oh, I have chocolate cake every day for lunch. How can I do that and do your diet to get fabulous results? I say, well, you cannot have chocolate cake every day and do this diet. You have to give up the chocolate cake and then once you lose the weight, have the chocolate cake every once in a while. Co-worker says,I cannot give up chocolate cake for lunch, but tell me please how can I do this diet, I need your help. I say, sorry, if you make the choice of chocolate cake every day, then you really need to find something else, because it simply does not work with this diet. Good luck, I hope you find something that works. Co-worker - boo, you are mean and unsupportive and do not understand my need for chocolate cake everyday. I cannot give that up.

Ok, that is all really silly and to the extreme, but co-worker is not making a mistake, and intentionally choosing to eat chocolate cake every day. The co-worker is struggling and unhappy, but until co-worker decides to make a change, nothing can really help. That is what I see in some people. They want the chocolate cake, they want it condoned, and then get miffed if they are told, um no, not on the diet.

OK, that is my fairy tale for the day..

I totally get that and agree that if you don't plan on following the protocol you shouldn't even attempt IP. I was just saying that people who make mistakes or intentionally cheat every once in awhile and make up for those mistakes by jumping right back OP shouldn't be judged.

I think people who plan on still drinking a glass of wine every night or eating chocolate cake everyday aren't compatible with IP until they are ready to give those things up until they are on maintenance and can have those things once in awhile. In my experience, IP allows for mistakes and cheats every once in awhile as long as I'm wiling to accept the set back and get back OP and stay there the vast majority of the time.

drd1961
04-12-2014, 06:28 PM
I totally get that and agree that if you don't plan on following the protocol you shouldn't even attempt IP. I was just saying that people who make mistakes or intentionally cheat every once in awhile and make up for those mistakes by jumping right back OP shouldn't be judged.

I think people who plan on still drinking a glass of wine every night or eating chocolate cake everyday aren't compatible with IP until they are ready to give those things up until they are on maintenance and can have those things once in awhile. In my experience, IP allows for mistakes and cheats every once in awhile as long as I'm wiling to accept the set back and get back OP and stay there the vast majority of the time.

I think we can agree on that. However, what I have seen in some people is that they cheat, usually planned, then say, oh I will get right on it, and do, but something else comes up, cheat, and oh I will get right on it...so far, as far as I am concerned, no problem, because it is their choices. It is when after this repeating pattern they get on here and say, this does not work, I cannot lose, help me, and people ask for menu. From there it gets defensive because in my opinion that person is simply not ready to commit yet, because they are not owning their consequences. We have had people on here whining that we are mean because we say they should not have their "chocolate cake" . I have said all day, if you cheat, accept the consequences, do not turn on the people you have just asked for help when they point out that it is not on plan.

drd1961
04-12-2014, 06:30 PM
And now, because I am on maintenance and can, I am going out to dinner with my daughter and eating what I like because it is a planned fun day. I do find that all the IP training kicks in and I make good choice. Have a great evening!

KookySuki
04-12-2014, 06:41 PM
I think we can agree on that. However, what I have seen in some people is that they cheat, usually planned, then say, oh I will get right on it, and do, but something else comes up, cheat, and oh I will get right on it...so far, as far as I am concerned, no problem, because it is their choices. It is when after this repeating pattern they get on here and say, this does not work, I cannot lose, help me, and people ask for menu. From there it gets defensive because in my opinion that person is simply not ready to commit yet, because they are not owning their consequences. We have had people on here whining that we are mean because we say they should not have their "chocolate cake" . I have said all day, if you cheat, accept the consequences, do not turn on the people you have just asked for help when they point out that it is not on plan.

That makes sense. I think in that case people should rely on their coaches more and re-evaluate why they are doing IP. I thought this thread was about anyone who cheats should get off the boards and not participate.

lisa32989
04-12-2014, 07:05 PM
That makes sense. I think in that case people should rely on their coaches more and re-evaluate why they are doing IP. I thought this thread was about anyone who cheats should get off the boards and not participate.

That is where perceived "hostility" or "judgement" comes from.
No one said anyone shouldn't participate. That was perceived.

There are, however times that I think people should evaluate whether IP is the program for them. It certainly isn't for everyone. That statement is neither good nor bad, it just is.

Unfortunately, not everyone has coaches to rely on, either B/c they don't have a coach or they have one of the crappy ones.

Every time I see someone saying there is hostility or judgment, I'd like to show them some extremely hostile PMs I've gotten. THOSE are hostility. When people get upset b/c they're receiving good, solid p1 IP advice for staying OP, that is their own mind creating hostility or judgement.

Btw:65 & drd...lotsa "likes" from me as I read today. So much good for staying OP and making IP work in our lives. I believe it saved mine.

KookySuki
04-12-2014, 07:31 PM
I agree that IP is not for everyone, people need to come to that conclusion themselves. When I see that stuff on the boards where someone is constantly eating off plan and not losing and may or may not be complaining about it, I keep my thoughts to myself. It's really that person's problem that they're wasting money on IP and not following protocol. I just don't like to get involved in that stuff.

65X65
04-12-2014, 07:47 PM
I been on IP for about 6 months and have lost almost 60 lbs. I've had a few cheats planned and unplanned, but have jumped right back OP right away. I realize this is a "prescribed diet," but why the hostility towards people who make mistakes or have struggles or God forbid decide to eat pizza every once in awhile? I'm thrilled to death with my results and so are my doctor and my coach. A lot of us became overweight because of emotional eating or anxiety/depression, so being critical or stern of someone's mistake or cheat is most likely not going to help that individual.

Suki..its the planned stuff...the intentional. And the telling someone else..it's OK... ?? It's got to be Ok for you. You should not need someone else to OK it for you. Giving or getting (meaningless) absolution {someone who does this cares not a fig for how another does...more likely it is consciously seeking company for someone's own decision not to comply} it is not the kind of support that will help.

It seems there are two minds on this..and sharing a safe place where the planned stuff is not going to pop up, be discussed, approved and become the focus on threads in a forum originating to give guidance and understanding to those who chose a difficult and specific diet is not only deemed OK by some, but there is the intent to indicate some success might be had with out total adherence. It is that mindset that disregards the methodology of how the diet is supposed to work best. It muddies the best information available, suggesting to those seeking to learn and understand that the guidelines don't need to be strict, and its acceptable to test the limits of ketosis. (On a personal level...I beleive this is true...it is OK for anyone to test.)

BUT...Talk about giving IP or any of the companies producing alternatives a cash cow!! Gotta hand it to you!!! LOL...Maybe that is the motivation!!

While it may be true... everyone is not insulin resistant..there are a significant number who are and will not see what the diet can do, possibly give up and lose both money and time if they feel the guidelines are meaningless....then discover the diet doesn't work so good because they have been led to think adherence is not a requirement for success.

And then there is the attitude of person A that anything person B might do is not their concern...even if the behavior/experience of person A was a contributing factor. Let 'em figure it out on their own? That's support???

I have never said every one needs to be 100%...or even close. I think and this is me..that those people who make that decision need to keep that a personal decision...and let everyone act/test if they feel they must on their own. Awareness of the impact our shared behavior has on another is a responsibility.

Once we decide we have the right to share...we own the responsibility to do so wisely and with care. And we own those results too.

drd1961
04-12-2014, 08:43 PM
That makes sense. I think in that case people should rely on their coaches more and re-evaluate why they are doing IP. I thought this thread was about anyone who cheats should get off the boards and not participate.
Ha, I think it would be an empty board. My clinic actually turns people away if they feel their resolve is mot strong enough to do IP as written. They know it is hard and people need to be mentally ready. It took a surgeon telling me my hips need replaced to slap me int the face and get me serious enough to do it. Dieting is hard work and IP is one type and this board is devoted to that. If a person is intentionally not following maybe they should go somewhere else. Sympathy from people who have worked very hard to work this diet correctly should not be a given to someone who does not have the intent to do it as written.

Jenny38
04-12-2014, 09:37 PM
Kathie, you started a great discussion and I hope to see this theme follow back into other discussions. IP is a tuff program, there have been many over weight people who have asked about my weight loss and what program I'm doing. When I say a few words about how restrictive it is it they don't ask much more. Regardless I agree that being overweight is more restrictive.
I support that this sight needs to stay committed to providing accurate information, support, accountability, and applause because for me it has helped me stay on track since September and I hope for many years in maintenance when I get there.

65X65
04-12-2014, 09:50 PM
Kathie, you started a great discussion and I hope to see this theme follow back into other discussions. IP is a tuff program, there have been many over weight people who have asked about my weight loss and what program I'm doing. When I say a few words about how restrictive it is it they don't ask much more. Regardless I agree that being overweight is more restrictive.
I support that this sight needs to stay committed to providing accurate information, support, accountability, and applause because for me it has helped me stay on track since September and I hope for many years in maintenance when I get there.
Thanks jenny and best wishes! Your support is appreciated...seeing this site drift so far from where it was a year and a half ago has been difficult. I am out spoken, but hesitated a bit to do this...and am amazed at the response. The positive reaction has been reinforcement the need for a strong group committed to getting it right and sharing the journey is really what is wanted the most.

In the work place ...( I'm retired now...) we used to call it "best practices" ....and successful companies shared those best practices with each other. I say it's time we get about the business of helping each other succeed on this plan again. And even for those in maintenance...the support here is invaluable.

It's easy to become a lifetime member...the only requirement is intention to help others stick it out and find their success and good health. It is amazing what the right support will do.

I'm exhausted! Good night all.....

AmberLS
04-12-2014, 10:04 PM
So the other day at a meeting I was sitting next to a girl doing IP and as I was drinking my shake she asked me about how long I had been on and how much weight I lost, did I think it was too hard, was I hungry all the time, etc. Well I told her all my answers and that sometimes I have a hard time eating all the food, that I think 8oz of meat and 4 cups of veggies is a lot some days. Well during this conversation we discovered that I've been on plan a little longer than her and lost quite a bit more weight. She says she's always hungry and she doesn't think the diet is working. Well come to find out she is cutting her veggies in half "No way can I eat 4 cups of veggies a day" she tells me, then she says "I also cut the meat amount in half, I figure less calories has to be better" I cringed... I've been lucky enough to not be a fad dieter but I could tell she was and that she didn't actually understand how IP worked and how the body worked. She's essentially using IP products and starving her body.. she wouldn't listen as I tried to give advice. She almost seemed to be mad that I tried to tell her she needed to follow the plan for it to work. I wonder if she has a coach and if they know what she's doing! That's bad IP publicity and as far as I'm concerned it's cheating not in the traditional sense of a diet but it's intentionally not following protocol!

JLUS
04-12-2014, 10:23 PM
One point I continually try to address is when people post either misinformation (almost always unintentional), comments with their personal interpretation of IP stated as if it is IP protocol, or post variations in menus/packets/serving sizes etc that are not aligned with IP.

I feel that people who are new to this board and especially those new to IP may not even realize that statement is a variation from IP. They are potentially then going to incorporate it into their own IP program thinking it is part of the protocol. Stating what IS IP and what is a variation from IP as a follow-up response to a post (with out judgement but simply stated as information) is very important. As we all know, many people come here without coaches or with poor coaches who themselves are passing along poor information to their paying clients. Giving them clear information is quite valuable.

Anyone is free to follow IP as they choose, with any percent of dedication they want, and with any personal changes they want to make, but I do think everyone at least deserves to make those choices armed with all the correct information available as to what is IP and what is not.

... Warrior on one and all!!

Slipfree
04-12-2014, 11:17 PM
Laurie, I absolutely agree with your comment.

Ruth Ann
04-12-2014, 11:27 PM
One point I continually try to address is when people post either misinformation (almost always unintentional), comments with their personal interpretation of IP stated as if it is IP protocol, or post variations in menus/packets/serving sizes etc that are not aligned with IP.

I feel that people who are new to this board and especially those new to IP may not even realize that statement is a variation from IP. They are potentially then going to incorporate it into their own IP program thinking it is part of the protocol. Stating what IS IP and what is a variation from IP as a follow-up response to a post (with out judgement but simply stated as information) is very important. As we all know, many people come here without coaches or with poor coaches who themselves are passing along poor information to their paying clients. Giving them clear information is quite valuable.

Anyone is free to follow IP as they choose, with any percent of dedication they want, and with any personal changes they want to make, but I do think everyone at least deserves to make those choices armed with all the correct information available as to what is IP and what is not.

... Warrior on one and all!!

Exactly Laurie! It's not just the particular poster you're giving information to, it's everyone who is reading. Like you said, everyone is free to do what they want but they should do so armed with correct information.

mckaren4
04-13-2014, 01:40 AM
I don't mind posters sharing their trigger foods or strict interpretation of the plan that's working for them but when they start critiquing the carb count of ideal protein approved veggies and saying some ideal protein brand foods are not in the protocal-that to me is misinformation. I don't personnally eat shellfish but I would never say it wasn't part of the protocal. Its just a personal preference and should be stated as such
And the impression to me as a newbie is this forum is just a mutual admiration society
There is a lot of good here and I think everyone comes with good intention but expecting to please all posters all the time is unrealistic-i was bothered that some posts were deleted last weekend and hope everyone feels comfortable enough to share their journey without personal attacks. And I make mistakes and appreciate when I am corrected because I would not want to lead anyone astray. The person with a c still passes the class-and the a students cant understand why they didn't go for the -a
ok my rambling is done-i love ideal protein and I am glad I found this forum and even if I don't agree with each post-i am proud to be part of this great diverse community of dieter's! And I hope everyone continues to share their wisdom with the masses.

vachinyc
04-13-2014, 10:48 AM
Thanks, as always, for the wise comments 65. I have been finding myself on the boards less and less and missed it...but couldn't put my finger on why. You captured it. I chose IP after a good bit of time researching and reading...and at a point in my life where I was ready to commit. For me, the strict parts (that work) were what I was seeking. Having you folks around to help me understand that it works, and that it means hard choices, but that it's all worth it...was invaluable.
I truly understand that weight loss is personal and each person has to do it in away that works for them. But, I also could not agree more that having a space where we can live and learn the real rules is important. There were times I had to walk away from the boards because I didn't want to start believing that it was ok to only follow the plan sort of. I just didn't need help falling down that slippery slope.
The 100 percent thread has been a wonderful resource. And while I've wanted to be more active in other spaces, for me, I needed the reinforcement of the plan the way it was written.
Thank you so much for sharing this perspective. I was happy to see it today because I had dinner with a good friend last night who proceeded to tell me all the things that were 'wrong' with how I chose to lose weight. And why didn't I try something sensible but more moderate. I love her - we're both opinionated - but I had to politely (and repeatedly) say that this was my personal choice and it worked for me and that I couldn't be happier or healthier. (Sadly she also then critiqued everything I ate. Oy vey!)
Hope you all have a great weekend.

PS Ruth Ann and Laurie: exactly! :)

65X65
04-13-2014, 11:22 AM
Thanks, as always, for the wise comments 65. I have been finding myself on the boards less and less and missed it...but couldn't put my finger on why. You captured it. I chose IP after a good bit of time researching and reading...and at a point in my life where I was ready to commit. For me, the strict parts (that work) were what I was seeking. Having you folks around to help me understand that it works, and that it means hard choices, but that it's all worth it...was invaluable.
I truly understand that weight loss is personal and each person has to do it in away that works for them. But, I also could not agree more that having a space where we can live and learn the real rules is important. There were times I had to walk away from the boards because I didn't want to start believing that it was ok to only follow the plan sort of. I just didn't need help falling down that slippery slope.
The 100 percent thread has been a wonderful resource. And while I've wanted to be more active in other spaces, for me, I needed the reinforcement of the plan the way it was written.
Thank you so much for sharing this perspective. I was happy to see it today because I had dinner with a good friend last night who proceeded to tell me all the things that were 'wrong' with how I chose to lose weight. And why didn't I try something sensible but more moderate. I love her - we're both opinionated - but I had to politely (and repeatedly) say that this was my personal choice and it worked for me and that I couldn't be happier or healthier. (Sadly she also then critiqued everything I ate. Oy vey!)
Hope you all have a great weekend.

PS Ruth Ann and Laurie: exactly! :)

THANK-YOU...What a relief to find out I was not alone. My own journey is semi-over. At least for the losing part...LOL...My words on this actually are..."Its NEVER really over..."

... and I got so much from the past nature of the site, it is good to know others want and do need that kind of support to get to the finish line. Again..doesn't mean those who don't want or need that are wrong..just those folks can quite easily get what it is they are seeking, with out disrupting the bricks and mortar of the protocol for readers who are trying to get traction. When the answer to a post that is giving accurate IP info is disputed and starts a discussion that is antagonistic, it indicates the real purpose of the community has either changed...or been lost.The IP forum, as is the diet... very unique, and meets a specific need for it's followers. That had disintegrated. The last 18 hrs I am loving reading the NSVs again and chatty posts about living with/on IP...and the feel good vibes from everyone who feels satisfaction they got through another day or meal on plan.

Step by step....it's a victory walk!!!

Hiker88
04-13-2014, 11:45 AM
I finally got around to reading this thread and agree that I am on here to get support and accurate information. 3FC's has been a great community for me. Of course its the same as any community... there are those who don't take IP as seriously as others... sometimes I read a post and think some people just don't get it!! I love the 100% thread because people there have the same outlook as me on how IP should be followed.

That being said, I also come here for support... it was hard to come on 3FC's and admit my failings but sometimes we just need a cheering squad to encourage us to get back on the horse. I need to feel that I can come here for that help and not be looked down upon because I stumbled. I'm human and might mess up but I count on this forum to help me keep going.

Thanks for the encouragement over the past few months...

drd1961
04-13-2014, 11:46 AM
I just posted before and after pictures. If IP is the "wrong" way to lose then why the heck do I look so much healthier after? :D

65X65
04-13-2014, 12:23 PM
I just posted before and after pictures. If IP is the "wrong" way to lose then why the heck do I look so much healthier after? :D

You DOOO look great...and I love the hair!!! Great style for summer...!!:carrot:

Interesting your dx on the hip...Small world. When my granddaughter was diagnosed we had no idea...then when we learned what can happen if it is untreated...we were able to connect the dots and figured out what was going on with my sister since it is genetic.

You sound like you are on the way to a wonderful life after this gets taken care of. Keep us posted. I believe there are a lot of us here that may be sharing that journey, and you can offer support, guidance and encouragement on how worthwhile it to see this through, including the weight loss. It makes the rehab so much easier.

Slipfree
04-13-2014, 12:29 PM
I have hesitated to weigh in here, because it seems as though this tension arises every month. I find this struggle for the vision of the IP support forum, awkward and uncomfortable.

I agree with Laurie, that accurate information is necessary because people are depending on the site for guidance. I understand Vachinyc's desire to find people following the protocol in a similar way. I also empathize with those who struggle with the strictness of the IP protocol and need support to make good choices.

In my view, that is why there are different threads. I frequent a lot of them to keep my focus. I get different supports from each one. If I do not agree with the tone or message, I move along and do not visit that thread anymore.

Whether or not it is intended, sometimes corrections can "feel" like judgement to the individual. 65x65 said something about, why so defensive? Possibly, the person is dealing with a whole lot of food issues and weight baggage. For most of us, this is not our first weight loss rodeo.

It is important to find a balance between giving correct information and consideration of the poster's dignity (and possibly fragile hold on staying OP). Having been on this forum for over 6 months, I understand that the intentions are based in good. It is definitely a case of perception, but a person's perception is their own reality.

Hiker88
04-13-2014, 12:56 PM
I have hesitated to weigh in here, because it seems as though this tension arises every month. I find this struggle for the vision of the IP support forum, awkward and uncomfortable.

I agree with Laurie, that accurate information is necessary because people are depending on the site for guidance. I understand Vachinyc's desire to find people following the protocol in a similar way. I also empathize with those who struggle with the strictness of the IP protocol and need support to make good choices.

In my view, that is why there are different threads. I frequent a lot of them to keep my focus. I get different supports from each one. If I do not agree with the tone or message, I move along and do not visit that thread anymore.

Whether or not it is intended, sometimes corrections can "feel" like judgement to the individual. 65x65 said something about, why so defensive? Possibly, the person is dealing with a whole lot of food issues and weight baggage. For most of us, this is not our first weight loss rodeo.

It is important to find a balance between giving correct information and consideration of the poster's dignity (and possibly fragile hold on staying OP). Having been on this forum for over 6 months, I understand that the intentions are based in good. It is definitely a case of perception, but a person's perception is their own reality.

OK Slipfree... LIKE, LIKE, LIKE!! You just nailed what I think.... some people are better at expressing a thought than others... thank you for this!

When I first started on 3FC's I found a few posts a little blunt/judgmental... but after I was on the forum long enough I got to know people and knew that they had nothing but the best intentions. Because we can't hear tone of voice and read body language when reading messages, we will all interpret them differently... I will admit to rereading something I've posted and then gone back and edited it because it didn't come across as I intended.

65X65
04-13-2014, 01:18 PM
OK Slipfree... LIKE, LIKE, LIKE!! You just nailed what I think.... some people are better at expressing a thought than others... thank you for this!

When I first started on 3FC's I found a few posts a little blunt/judgmental... but after I was on the forum long enough I got to know people and knew that they had nothing but the best intentions. Because we can't hear tone of voice and read body language when reading messages, we will all interpret them differently... I will admit to rereading something I've posted and then gone back and edited it because it didn't come across as I intended.

Problems erupt when someone who is not or does not want to follow the IP protocol completely takes offense, and posts defensively. This community was created for and is IP support. While it is perfectly acceptable on an individual level to pick and choose what is wanted, this forum is not the place to debate the structure of IP. It is IP. The mission here and the main focus is IP protocol. Whatever help that is to someone who wants to dissect information and customize the plan is wonderful..diluting what it is, is not. The core of this diet is the rigidity. Take that away and you have something else...low carb...etc. Those diets work well for a lot of people..so does IP in it's entirety. When IP people are having trouble recognizing IPers like themselves...the forum is not being effective to the people who have no where else to turn. That is the basis of attempts to redirect the focus. That should not happen.

Vmoktan
04-13-2014, 01:19 PM
I seldom post but since starting on IP, this forum has been my lifeline ..... I thank all of you for posting from your gut on all topics ... just like i am slowly turning into a discerning eater, so am I turning into a discerning reader of the posts ����

catlady1981
04-13-2014, 01:38 PM
When I first found these boards a few months ago I was thrilled at the prospect of finding other like minded people who had had "the talk" with themselves. I read every post in every thread. Now...I pretty much keep to the 100%, maintainers, and Daily chat. Since my focus is staying 100% and OP I pay attention to the long haulers who know what they are talking about. Every now and then I will read a thread that has in interesting topic, like this one. But just like the diet having a narrow focus, so to is my reading of these threads. I read what I know will support my journey.

On a side note, a long talk with my coach yesterday yielded a similar discussion about these boards. He was dismayed at how many people are varying the protocol and then complaining about lack of results.

65X65
04-13-2014, 01:41 PM
When I first found these boards a few months ago I was thrilled at the prospect of finding other like minded people who had had "the talk" with themselves. I read every post in every thread. Now...I pretty much keep to the 100%, maintainers, and Daily chat. Since my focus is staying 100% and OP I pay attention to the long haulers who know what they are talking about. Every now and then I will read a thread that has in interesting topic, like this one. But just like the diet having a narrow focus, so to is my reading of these threads. I read what I know will support my journey.

On a side note, a long talk with my coach yesterday yielded a similar discussion about these boards. He was dismayed at how many people are varying the protocol and then complaining about lack of results.

That is a problem...and not fair to IPers...the stuff that is customized belongs in one place...not the stuff that follow protocol.

That's a lot like making the homeowner sleep in the garage....

JLUS
04-13-2014, 01:43 PM
Problems erupt when someone who is not or does not want to follow the IP protocol completely takes offense, and posts defensively. This community was created for and is IP support. While it is perfectly acceptable on an individual level to pick and choose what is wanted, this forum is not the place to debate the structure of IP. It is IP. The mission here and the main focus is IP protocol. Whatever help that is to someone who wants to dissect information and customize the plan is wonderful..diluting what it is, is not. The core of this diet is the rigidity. Take that away and you have something else...low carb...etc. Those diets work well for a lot of people..so does IP in it's entirety. When IP people are having trouble recognizing IPers like themselves...the forum is not being effective to the people who have no where else to turn. That is the basis of attempts to redirect the focus. That should not happen.

Three CHEERS!! :cheer3: :cheer2: :cheer:

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 01:43 PM
Problems erupt when someone who is not or does not want to follow the IP protocol completely takes offense, and posts defensively. This community was created for and is IP support. While it is perfectly acceptable on an individual level to pick and choose what is wanted, this forum is not the place to debate the structure of IP. It is IP. The mission here and the main focus is IP protocol. Whatever help that is to someone who wants to dissect information and customize the plan is wonderful..diluting what it is, is not. The core of this diet is the rigidity. Take that away and you have something else...low carb...etc. Those diets work well for a lot of people..so does IP in it's entirety. When IP people are having trouble recognizing IPers like themselves...the forum is not being effective to the people who have no where else to turn. That is the basis of attempts to redirect the focus. That should not happen.

I was not defensive in my post. I was actually standing up for "free speech" on these boards, so to speak. If you don't like what someone posts or dislike a particular thread, don't feel compelled to respond to the person who offends you. You're not going to be able to control the content of the boards/threads or what any given person posts, so why stress yourself about it? Why not just read the boards that you enjoy (ie 100 %'ers) and move on? There are a lot more worthy causes in the world for you to put your energy towards than trying to control what is posted on an internet diet board.

65X65
04-13-2014, 01:47 PM
I couldn't agree more. I stick with the 100%, Maintainers and Daily chat.
It would be nice if that was respected but very often postings in the daily chat are about what plans for the weekend include...esp plans to eat with friends or family and the word cheat is often seen. It's not the "food" that bothers most...or triggers someone to go do something(that is absurd)...it is that once you have had that chat with yourself...you don't want to have to entertain the convos of those who have NOT had the chat. And they just seem to pop up ..holidays esp seem to open the door to telling all.

That is why the 90% thread was created...but look at how often that is NOT where this stuff appears.

65X65
04-13-2014, 01:48 PM
I was not defensive in my post. I was actually standing up for "free speech" on these boards, so to speak. If you don't like what someone posts or dislike a particular thread, don't feel compelled to respond to the person who offends you. You're not going to be able to control the content of the boards/threads or what any given person posts, so why stress yourself about it? Why not just read the boards that you enjoy (ie 100 %'ers) and move on? There are a lot more worthy injustices in the world to fight for than what is posted on an internet diet board. Lighten up!

Not offended...but most of the problem posts are NOT where they belong...on the 90% thread!!!

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 01:50 PM
Not offended...but most of the problem posts are NOT where they belong...on the 90% thread!!!

Good luck trying to enforce that!

65X65
04-13-2014, 02:01 PM
Good luck trying to enforce that!

Not a matter of enforce...I'd go for quiet respect. It speaks volumes.

Ruth Ann
04-13-2014, 02:15 PM
I have no problem with people who slip and are having a hard time getting back to 100% - I admire their dedication to trying to turn it around and get back at it and will encourage them to do so.

I have no problem with people who make a decision to eat off plan - go for it if that's what's right for you and you are armed with all the information and know the consequences. I may give reasons about why I think it's a bad idea, but in the end everyone makes their own decisions.

What I do have a problem with is people passing out information that is contrary to IP protocols with the "I do it and am losing so it must be fine" attitude and when anyone dares to point out that it's not OP they get defensive. I see lots of people who regularly don't follow the protocol, are losing and are happy with it - more power to them! But most of them don't put forth the idea that it's okay to do so. They just quietly go about their business and offer support to those who have slipped, need help getting over a hump or just general support.

That said, this forum is for people who are following or trying to follow IP. So it stands to reason that responses are geared toward pointing out what is and is not the protocol. People who get defensive because they say they plan on cheating and don't hear "it's ok" but rather "here's why it's not a good idea" really need to look at why they are even trying IP. And I'm not talking about those who say "I'm going on vacation and really want XYZ" and listen to what's being said in response.

In the end we are all adults and responsible for our own actions. Around Christmas time I quit reading the daily chat because it was full of "well, it's the holidays and this only comes around once a year so I'm going to eat it." It made me sad that people were setting themselves back for something that will taste the same next year as it did the year before without ever thinking maybe they could skip just one year for the sake of their health.

This board is where we come to get support for following the IP diet - not to learn how to cheat. I KNOW how to cheat on a diet, I'm really, really good at it!

65X65
04-13-2014, 02:48 PM
I have no problem with people who slip and are having a hard time getting back to 100% - I admire their dedication to trying to turn it around and get back at it and will encourage them to do so. - AMEN

I have no problem with people who make a decision to eat off plan - go for it if that's what's right for you and you are armed with all the information and know the consequences. I may give reasons about why I think it's a bad idea, but in the end everyone makes their own decisions.

What I do have a problem with is people passing out information that is contrary to IP protocols with the "I do it and am losing so it must be fine" attitude and when anyone dares to point out that it's not OP they get defensive. I see lots of people who regularly don't follow the protocol, are losing and are happy with it - more power to them! But most of them don't put forth the idea that it's okay to do so. They just quietly go about their business and offer support to those who have slipped, need help getting over a hump or just general support. -Amen

That said, this forum is for people who are following or trying to follow IP. -Amen again

So it stands to reason that responses are geared toward pointing out what is and is not the protocol. People who get defensive because they say they plan on cheating and don't hear "it's ok" but rather "here's why it's not a good idea" really need to look at why they are even trying IP. And I'm not talking about those who say "I'm going on vacation and really want XYZ" and listen to what's being said in response.

In the end we are all adults and responsible for our own actions. Around Christmas time I quit reading the daily chat because it was full of "well, it's the holidays and this only comes around once a year so I'm going to eat it." It made me sad that people were setting themselves back for something that will taste the same next year as it did the year before without ever thinking maybe they could skip just one year for the sake of their health.

This board is where we come to get support for following the IP diet - not to learn how to cheat. I KNOW how to cheat on a diet, I'm really, really good at it!

Ditto Ruth Ann

SylviesGirl
04-13-2014, 03:35 PM
Good luck trying to enforce that!


I don't think anyone is trying to "enforce" anything. We are trying to discuss . . . that is the whole point of this thread.

From reading this discussion, it seems to me that there are two camps: the 100%ers and the less-than-100%ers, defining the less-than-100%ers being those who believe that they can stretch the rules of IP, plan to eat off-program, etc. (I am not including people who occasionally "slip" in that group.) The less-than-100%ers seem to believe that they have a right to post their plans, their philosophies, and their views without any commentary from the 100%ers. Isn't there a place for that already? On the 90% board? If such remarks are made in the wide-open space of the forum, why are the 100%ers not just as free to offer their views and commentary on such posts and in the same place?

The problem with offering personalized variations on IP in the wide-open space of this forum is that it is highly confusing to many people. Even I, who have been on this plan for over a year, experienced doubt of my own understanding of the current plan when returning here and seeing such liberties being taken and being discussed as if these are regular and usual. Speaking for myself first, MANY people do not have an IP coach. MANY people get their information and IP protocols here. That is why so many of us long-timers are concerned that the information stay clear (or "clean").

This plan is difficult. My first couple of weeks on it, I thought I might just die. God forbid (is that "religious language?" well, sorry, because that is how I talk) that I had been doing it incorrectly but in good faith. To go through all of that and then not have it work correctly would have been agony. When you have your first small loss, you need the peace of mind, knowing you are doing the plan correctly and that it WILL work, in order to keep with it. When it becomes unclear what is OP and what is not, you increase the risk of people misunderstanding and not adhering to IP correctly, getting frustrated, giving up, and even possibly quitting. The thought of that could make me cry, because I truly do believe that this was my last chance. Had this not worked for me, I would have resigned myself to a (short) fat life. I believe that is all we are trying to do -- keep the info as it pertains to IP clear and absolutely correct -- for newbies, for people who can't afford a coach, and for people who just don't have the energy to have to double-check each and every single thing posted in this forum all day long.

Anyone on here is free to find their own way and their own ways of doing things, but trouble comes when those personal "ways" get posted and discussed as if they are OP. That's all. For crying out loud, I think each of us, having been heavy enough to find our way to IP, have been very humbled in that aspect of our lives. No one is judging anyone for finding their own way. They are just trying to offer the very best information and guidance in regard to IP as they know it.

Now, I am a 100%er. I learned that about myself this weekend. I have never felt forced to define myself before, but all of this emotion and "tone" has made me think carefully about it. I was never completely comfortable identifying myself as a 100%er because I use alternatives and have never been to an IP clinic. However, I DO follow the plan to the utmost of my ability and fervently believe that that is the way to go for me. I cannot believe that anyone on this forum really has a problem with me saying that and sharing that, right? Mutual respect and posting in the appropriate places is all anyone is asking.

SylviesGirl
04-13-2014, 03:48 PM
One more thing . . .

On the "tough talk" and "lectures," etc.

I get what some of you are saying. I felt that way a couple of times in the beginning, too. The first time I posted "only" in front of a weight loss, I about had my head handed to me. I didn't like it. The first time I whined out loud, fully expecting everyone to participate in my pity party, I was embarrassed to find that no one attended. I didn't like it.

Know what?

That was the best thing this group could have done for me. Have you ever been anywhere else where people cared enough about your success to let you dislike them while they delivered the truth? I haven't. Heck, Weight Watchers makes an entire meeting out of people whining and crying and confessing and receiving "forgiveness" (imo). They make a sport out of finding a way to eat "anything you want," when the real work of permanent weight loss is reckoning with the fact that, if you really want a healthy body, a box of 1 point fudgesicles is not going to work; get used to it.

This group does its best to snap you out of that. It worked for me right quick. Yes, I spent a few days mad at a few ladies here -- the same few that I can now say I have learned the most from.

As I near maintenance, I have news for everyone -- turns out, the game is all mental. Your time on IP is best spent practicing "best practices" as 65 terms it, getting comfortable with it, and also toughening up in regard to the harsh realities of getting and keeping weight off. This group was willing to let me be uncomfortable at times while they withheld the enabling I craved. That, I believe, is what 65 is saying will not be found most anywhere else on the internet. I grew up and I toughened up -- and now I can do that for myself. That, above all . . . even more than the protocol sheets -- is the most valuable thing I have received in this forum. I would like to be able to offer that to everyone who crosses our 3FC-IP threshold, because I wouldn't have made it without it.

:soap: --climbing down now . . . because I really do have other things to do today . . .

Have a good one all!

LuvA1exa
04-13-2014, 03:56 PM
Wow, so unless you are 100% on program 100% of the time you are not welcome on any thread except the 90%er. How sad for these forums.

I come here for support and ideas. My work/school/life schedule makes it impossible for me to be 100%/100%. By that I mean I can't always eat 2 cups of veg and 8% of protein for dinner. Sometimes I have to eat 4 cups of veg at lunch with my protein in order to get it in.

And I would like to hear from other people with similar struggles. I don't post in the 100% thread because that doesn't define me everyday.

I guess I should just go hide in my pantry with my 2 year old Peeps and Candy Canes and hang my head in shame. But I won't, because what I am doing is working for me.

SylviesGirl
04-13-2014, 04:01 PM
Wow, so unless you are 100% on program 100% of the time you are not welcome on any thread except the 90%er. How sad for these forums.

I come here for support and ideas. My work/school/life schedule makes it impossible for me to be 100%/100%. By that I mean I can't always eat 2 cups of veg and 8% of protein for dinner. Sometimes I have to eat 4 cups of veg at lunch with my protein in order to get it in.

And I would like to hear from other people with similar struggles. I don't post in the 100% thread because that doesn't define me everyday.

I guess I should just go hide in my pantry with my 2 year old Peeps and Candy Canes and hang my head in shame. But I won't, because what I am doing is working for me.


I think several people have bent over backwards to make a distinction between "making it work in a pinch" (and/or a slip) and recreating IP altogether. It's becoming exhausting and has an air of game to it at this point.

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 04:11 PM
Not everyone wants to be whipped into shape by strangers on the internet. Also, I don't think everyone who cheats and admits to it is asking for forgiveness on the forums. I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone who cheats wants an a*^ kicking or to be corrected. There's a respectful way to "correct" someone or to help someone get back on track. The stern, sanctimonious approach doesn't go over very well with most people, but I think most are afraid to stick up for themselves. I guess we're going to have to "agree to disagree on this one."

I think it's pointless to try to "clean up" the boards when every day multiple people will post the types of things you don't like to see. Have fun trying to force 100's of people you don't know to be 100% or get off of the boards. I think it would be better to focus on your own progress or maintenance instead of policing these boards and providing unsolicited or unwanted discipline to people who deviate from IP.

It's very ironic that people who aren't even on IP consider themselves 100% OP when they are not even using IP products. I know people are successful on alternatives, but get off of your high horses because it's impossible to claim you're 100% OP on an IDEAL PROTEIN forum, when you're not even doing IDEAL PROTEIN! The protocol says to use only Ideal Protein products and that anything not on the sheet is not allowed. If you're not following the IP protocol sheet, you're not even close to 100% OP. You're "testing the limits" of ketosis just as much as the people who deviate. There is such a bunch of hipocracy and self-righteousness on these boards by certain people it's unreal.

kontesanera
04-13-2014, 04:14 PM
Wow, so unless you are 100% on program 100% of the time you are not welcome on any thread except the 90%er. How sad for these forums.

I come here for support and ideas. My work/school/life schedule makes it impossible for me to be 100%/100%. By that I mean I can't always eat 2 cups of veg and 8% of protein for dinner. Sometimes I have to eat 4 cups of veg at lunch with my protein in order to get it in.

And I would like to hear from other people with similar struggles. I don't post in the 100% thread because that doesn't define me everyday.

I guess I should just go hide in my pantry with my 2 year old Peeps and Candy Canes and hang my head in shame. But I won't, because what I am doing is working for me.

Please don't go into your pantry and hang your head in shame :hug: You have and will continue to receive support on this forum, no worries.

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 04:15 PM
Wow, so unless you are 100% on program 100% of the time you are not welcome on any thread except the 90%er. How sad for these forums.

I come here for support and ideas. My work/school/life schedule makes it impossible for me to be 100%/100%. By that I mean I can't always eat 2 cups of veg and 8% of protein for dinner. Sometimes I have to eat 4 cups of veg at lunch with my protein in order to get it in.

And I would like to hear from other people with similar struggles. I don't post in the 100% thread because that doesn't define me everyday.

I guess I should just go hide in my pantry with my 2 year old Peeps and Candy Canes and hang my head in shame. But I won't, because what I am doing is working for me.

Amen sister!:cp:

kontesanera
04-13-2014, 04:20 PM
Not everyone wants to be whipped into shape by strangers on the internet. Also, I don't think everyone who cheats and admits to it is asking for forgiveness on the forums. I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone who cheats wants an a*^ kicking or to be corrected. There's a respectful way to "correct" someone or to help someone get back on track. The stern, sanctimonious approach doesn't go over very well with most people, but I think most are afraid to stick up for themselves. I guess we're going to have to "agree to disagree on this one."

I think it's pointless to try to "clean up" the boards when every day multiple people will post the types of things you don't like to see. Have fun trying to force 100's of people you don't know to be 100% or get off of the boards. I think it would be better to focus on your own progress or maintenance instead of policing these boards and providing unsolicited or unwanted discipline to people who deviate from IP.

It's very ironic that people who aren't even on IP consider themselves 100% OP when they are not even using IP products. I know people are successful on alternatives, but get off of your high horses because it's impossible to claim you're 100% OP on an IDEAL PROTEIN forum, when you're not even doing IDEAL PROTEIN! The protocol says to use only Ideal Protein products and that anything not on the sheet is not allowed. If you're not following the IP protocol sheet, you're not even close to 100% OP. You're "testing the limits" of ketosis just as much as the people who deviate. There is such a bunch of hipocracy and self-righteousness on these boards by certain people it's unreal.

Wow, Kooky, you are very brave, I must admit ;) I agree with you statement that it is better to focus on your own progress or maintenance instead of policing these boards and providing unsolicited or unwanted discipline.

But honestly, who cares, this is a pretty much faceless forum, full of very valuable information and sometimes support, and you should only take it at face value. No reason for anybody to get worked up over where something should be and should not be posted and what someone is eating.

LuvA1exa
04-13-2014, 04:57 PM
What I am getting from this is that we are all on a journey to the same place, a happy, healthier place. We just don't all travel the same exact path.

Mulse
04-13-2014, 05:08 PM
I think several people have bent over backwards to make a distinction between "making it work in a pinch" (and/or a slip) and recreating IP altogether. It's becoming exhausting and has an air of game to it at this point.

I think it's important for people to listen to what others who have a differing opinion than your own are saying. I've read this thread with interest. I am new to 'IP' (no coach, using all alternative foods) and have tried to stay on plan 100% since starting. Even if this thread isn't meant to make people feel like they're being judged, some people are saying that that's exactly how they're feeling. You can say that people are bending over backwards but if the recipient of the information feels like they're being targeted, then you have to give some credibility to that. There ARE two sides of this coin and the opinion of one side shouldn't cancel out the other.

I come here for support. Obviously since I am not near a clinic, I am not officially 100% because I am not using a coach or IP products. But I do have access to the phase 1 sheet and have not deviated from that at all. So, am I 100% or not 100%? Do I belong or not? I'm not sure anymore. That's what this thread has caused for some of us that are 1) new and 2)feeling 'targeted'.

lisa32989
04-13-2014, 05:16 PM
I think it's important for people to listen to what others who have a differing opinion than your own are saying. I've read this thread with interest. I am new to 'IP' (no coach, using all alternative foods) and have tried to stay on plan 100% since starting. Even if this thread isn't meant to make people feel like they're being judged, some people are saying that that's exactly how they're feeling. You can say that people are bending over backwards but if the recipient of the information feels like they're being targeted, then you have to give some credibility to that. There ARE two sides of this coin and the opinion of one side shouldn't cancel out the other.

I come here for support. Obviously since I am not near a clinic, I am not officially 100% because I am not using a coach or IP products. But I do have access to the phase 1 sheet and have not deviated from that at all. So, am I 100% or not 100%? Do I belong or not? I'm not sure anymore. That's what this thread has caused for some of us that are 1) new and 2)feeling 'targeted'.
Yup. You're 100%. It doesn't have to be IP products.

mckaren4
04-13-2014, 05:24 PM
Regarding any form of communication-including forums to quote a comment I saw- People either have the ability to communicate, understand others and or present their own view...or they don't and life no matter how its presented to someone, or the message, image or words get misinterpreted-
One of my favorite quotes-be who you are and say what you feel-those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter.....

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 05:49 PM
To clarify, I don't mean to offend those using alternatives. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people using alternative products feeling superior and being condescending to those who might occasionally deviate from Ideal Protein.

Technically, those using alternatives, not going to an IP clinic, and not using IP products exclusively are not really doing Ideal Protein. These people are doing an unofficial program derivative of Ideal Protein which has not been tested scientifically. Essentially, when you're complaining about people not being 100% or deviating, you should look at what you're doing. You're not doing the official IP protocol, yet you complain or come down on people for not following protocol...very hypocritical and silly.

I'm saying this because I think the judging, policing, and bullying needs to stop because no one is perfect. We're all trying to better ourselves by doing IP or alternatives. How people choose to address their weight loss is their business. Gentle guidance to those who need help is great, but condemning or judging others is not cool. Also, telling people they need to post in the 90% thread unless they have been 100% OP is ridiculous. There are plenty of other threads where anyone should be able to post. Don't worry about me sullying the 100% board because I am not a 100%'er and don't want to be.

SylviesGirl
04-13-2014, 06:15 PM
To clarify, I don't mean to offend those using alternatives. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people using alternative products feeling superior and being condescending to those who might occasionally deviate from Ideal Protein.

Technically, those using alternatives, not going to an IP clinic, and not using IP products exclusively are not really doing Ideal Protein. These people are doing an unofficial program derivative of Ideal Protein which has not been tested scientifically. Essentially, when you're complaining about people not being 100% or deviating, you should look at what you're doing. You're not doing the official IP protocol, yet you complain or come down on people for not following protocol...very hypocritical and silly.


See, this is exactly what NO ONE is saying. The very fact that you are calling me a hypocrite after I openly acknowledged that I, #1. use alternative products, yet #2. consider myself to be 100% should be illuminating. No one, but no one, is saying that you have to be 100% perfect, no alternatives, no slips, no finding-your-own-way-that-works. The very fact that I, and others, consider me to be 100% proves this.

This forum was my life-blood when I first began the program. I could not have made it if this forum was not the way it was when I started in 2/13. The way it was -- IP was explained in its most simple, as-written form. Strict (as possible) adherence was the gold-standard and was unquestioningly what everyone agreed was ideal. When people slipped up, they slipped up and were given encouragement to pick themselves up and keep going. No one was ever asked to leave or to get out. That was never even implied. Many, many times, someone would say something along the lines of, "well, I've always [insert the improvisation here] and it has not affected my weight loss." That way, people can tell that the poster has deviated from the program in this regard and make their own decisions about whether they want to try that or not. I don't see what the problem is about that.

And I don't see a single person here -- myself included, since that seems to be to whom you are referring -- who feels superior to anyone else here in any way. You've got to be kidding. I feel like I've won the damned lottery over here in regard to my weight loss. I'm not sure I even deserve it, I feel that "lucky." But I am so much happier and healthier since I have gotten this weight off, I cannot even put it into words. I have begun feeling a bit unworthy, to be honest. (That's not the exact right word, but it is close.) I very much want to do what I can to give back to the forum that really changed my life. I want to help others who are right where I was a year ago. Many of us do. But now, suddenly, we are to move over, keep quiet, and no longer maintain the forum in the manner which we all found to be so helpful.

I really hate to see this forum become so war torn. Some people here may rub some other people the wrong way from time to time. That is an internet forum for you. I can say that I used to feel that way, but, looking back, it was all helpful and necessary and that no one here intends to hurt anyone in any way. There is so much valuable information here, and I really do believe it is critical to success.

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 06:37 PM
I'm not saying that everyone who is using alternatives is a hypocrite. I'm saying that using alternatives AND judging/making condescending remarks to others for not being 100% OP with Ideal Protein is hypocritical.

I'm saying this because using alternatives is not compliant with the Ideal Protein protocol. Using alternatives is complying with the alternatives protocol someone created.

I'm not debating the effectiveness of Ideal Protein vs. alternatives, I'm just stating the simple fact that the two protocols and the products involved are not the same. Also, I'm saying that those doing alternative products are not truly doing Ideal Protein. When an individual is not actually doing Ideal Protein, what right does she/he have to call out people for being non-IP compliant? Using alternative products consistently would get you kicked out of my IP clinic because doing that is not following the IP protocol.

65X65
04-13-2014, 06:46 PM
It seems a lot need to take a breath and reread the 1st post in this thread, because the intent has gotten lost. And I did not lose it.

In all of this, the only reference I personally ever made to 100% was in this paragraph in the 1st post:

"Keeping that separate on the IP forum has allowed us to create striving for the 100% culture that is needed and not available ANYWHERE else. All other diets allow for cheats...they can be adjusted and hijacked to fix a stray quickly. Those diets did not work for a large number of people on IP. The forums where support is given for needing to allow for weekend transgressions, planned weekends, holidays birthdays or anniversaries are in abundance...they are the norm. Regularly people fall off the wagon and it's acceptable to do it, talk openly about it, and get back on. Cravings are part of any diet. IP for the most part reduces the physical craving but the psychological/emotional and social pieces of eating are still battles that need to be conquered. With the physical piece being addressed nicely for most after a few days/weeks...the opportunity to get the other pieces together for a successful maintenance and life ever after are the bonus for those who recognize and are looking for the tools to get prepared for that golden part of happily ever after..... "


The emphasis was on striving (Please note...these words in the first post) to make this work at the level the diet was designed to work. At it's best according to the people who designed and sell the plan.... And more importantly, to many making sure that support IS available in the way both the marketed protocol and philosophy are meant to be delivered and used for IP to those who"want or want to try" to do it. Alternatives meet the philosophy...falling off and getting back on meets philosophy.

Intentionally deciding to hijack the plan does not mesh with the philosophy. It is a good idea to keep the philosophy (which I don't own..it is not my invention...) in tact SO this does not become just another lo carb forum.

I do own believing and suggesting the philosphy is worth protecting for those who think that is what they are getting on here.

Offending and antagonizing was not my intent...and I do apologize to anyone who mistakenly got that idea by other posters. I believe things are being attributed to me which were never said let alone intended..

In addition, the idea that following the IP protocol with or with out a coach and with or with out IP products is less than acceptable has never been a concept that I wrote about, believed or encouraged. So please folks...someone else own that too.

SylviesGirl
04-13-2014, 06:55 PM
I'm not saying that everyone who is using alternatives is a hypocrite. I'm saying that using alternatives AND judging/making condescending remarks to others for not being 100% OP with Ideal Protein is hypocritical.

I'm saying this because using alternatives is not compliant with the Ideal Protein protocol. Using alternatives is complying with the alternatives protocol someone created.

I'm not debating the effectiveness of Ideal Protein vs. alternatives, I'm just stating the simple fact that the two protocols and the products involved are not the same. Also, I'm saying that those doing alternative products are not truly doing Ideal Protein. When an individual is not actually doing Ideal Protein, what right does she/he have to call out people for being non-IP compliant? Using alternative products consistently would get you kicked out of my IP clinic because doing that is not following the IP protocol.

I have not made condescending remarks or judgments, and please note, despite being called a hypocrite among other things by you, I have not called you, or anyone, anything.

I am bowing out of this conversation now. I no longer know what we are even talking about, and I am just getting attacked now.

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 06:56 PM
It seems a lot need to take a breath and reread the 1st post in this thread, because the intent has gotten lost. And I did not lose it.

In all of this, the only reference I personally ever made to 100% was in this paragraph in the 1st post:

"Keeping that separate on the IP forum has allowed us to create striving for the 100% culture that is needed and not available ANYWHERE else. All other diets allow for cheats...they can be adjusted and hijacked to fix a stray quickly. Those diets did not work for a large number of people on IP. The forums where support is given for needing to allow for weekend transgressions, planned weekends, holidays birthdays or anniversaries are in abundance...they are the norm. Regularly people fall off the wagon and it's acceptable to do it, talk openly about it, and get back on. Cravings are part of any diet. IP for the most part reduces the physical craving but the psychological/emotional and social pieces of eating are still battles that need to be conquered. With the physical piece being addressed nicely for most after a few days/weeks...the opportunity to get the other pieces together for a successful maintenance and life ever after are the bonus for those who recognize and are looking for the tools to get prepared for that golden part of happily ever after..... "


The emphasis was on striving (Please note...these words in the first post) to make this work at the level the diet was designed to work. At it's best according to the people who designed and sell the plan.... And more importantly, to many making sure that support IS available in the way both the marketed protocol and philosophy are meant to be delivered and used for IP to those who"want or want to try" to do it. Alternatives meet the philosophy...falling off and getting back on meets philosophy.

Intentionally deciding to hijack the plan does not mesh with the philosophy. It is a good idea to keep the philosophy (which I don't own..it is not my invention...) in tact SO this does not become just another lo carb forum.

I do own believing and suggesting the philosphy is worth protecting for those who think that is what they are getting on here.

Offending and antagonizing was not my intent...and I do apologize to anyone who mistakenly got that idea by other posters. I believe things are being attributed to me which were never said let alone intended..

In addition, the idea that following the IP protocol with or with out a coach and with or with out IP products is less than acceptable has never been a concept that I wrote about, believed or encouraged. So please folks...someone else own that too.

If you read my post(s) correctly, I SPECIFICALLY say that I am not debating the quality or efficacy of IP vs. alternatives. I AM saying that no one has the right to question the integrity and cleanliness of the IP board when it's not strictly an IP board. It's a both an IP and an IP alternatives board. Hope I made this more clear to you. Also, please don't play the victim when you create an inflammatory thread and people openly disagree with you. You opened the can of worms, so you should be able to handle others questioning your OPINION.

Also, I don't think people who deviate are trying to "hijack the plan." Could you BE anymore dramatic?! Wow! What's next...calling the occasionally non-compliant terrorists?! This is really becoming laughable. :lol::rolleyes:

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 06:59 PM
I have not made condescending remarks or judgments, and please note, despite being called a hypocrite among other things by you, I have not called you, or anyone, anything.

I am bowing out of this conversation now. I no longer know what we are even talking about, and I am just getting attacked now.

I never called you (or anyone else) a hypocrite for using alternatives. I said it's hypocritical for people not following the Ideal Protein protocol to be critical of those on IP who might deviate from time to time. If you have not criticized or judged people for deviating as 65x65 is doing, I am not referring to you, so no need to get offended.

Bellamack
04-13-2014, 07:02 PM
Perception - Word of the day.

I don't post alot, but really enjoy all the posts, great information :)

65X65
04-13-2014, 07:04 PM
I never called you a hypocrite for using alternatives. I said it's hypocritical for people not following the Ideal Protein protocol to be critical of those on IP who might deviate from time to time. If you have not criticized or judged people for deviating as 65x65 is doing, I am not referring to you, so no need to get offended.


I have not been critical ...you have way overreacted. There must be something else going on....you don't need this...

Best wishes.

KookySuki
04-13-2014, 07:12 PM
I have not been critical ...you have way overreacted. There must be something else going on....you don't need this...

Best wishes.

Thanks for that...best of luck to you too in getting the boards "cleaned up." :rolleyes:

patns
04-13-2014, 07:18 PM
Yep,Bella we were both here way back when Wuv started the original 100% thread. I debated the use of that term because I couldn't say I was 100%. After 5 months on program I had eaten an apple when there was nothing else available when at someone else's home.
To me 100% is an absolute, one deviation and you are no longer pure. So I still think 100% is not the best term, and it has sparked a 1000+ heated debates in the 4 years since.

65X65
04-13-2014, 07:25 PM
The intent here has gotten lost..Semantics....possibly..hitting nerves unintentionally...probably that too...and plus other issues not even related.



Closed...this discussion has lost it's purpose...wishing all a safe happy and successful journey.