Weight Loss Support - Mindful Eating - not falling for this




Wannabeskinny
01-17-2014, 09:10 AM
I'll start off by saying that I don't believe that Mindful Eating is wrong. On the contrary I think it's the final destination of where I want my eating habits to end up. I just can't do it now that's all. I ran across this TED Talk on mindful eating and was really surprised that it had the opposite effect of what the speaker was intending - it turned me off.

http://www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work.htm l

You'll have to judge for yourselves but what I came away with from this is.... don't bother trying to lose weight because your body has a set point, diets don't work, anybody who has every lost weight will just gain it back anyway and just go ahead and eat what you like and only focus on health which will probably not include weight loss at all.

Boy is this depressing.


Sheridan
01-17-2014, 11:03 AM
Hi,

Well as evidenced by the many,many people who have lost over 100 pounds and kept it off, I would say there is considerable evidence that it is possible.

What is her point in being such a downer?

Interesting buy flawed theory in my opinion.

Good luck and keep at it . It isn't easy but it is possible.

Sheridan

SouthernMaven
01-17-2014, 11:17 AM
Very interesting video; thanks for sharing it.

It is a somewhat depressing video, I agree.

What I found interesting is that she did NOT address a phenomenon some of us have experienced (read, ME!). I was an intuitive eater until I went on my first diet at 18 (and another one in my early 20's). BUT...after the birth of my first child at 28 I was at a normal weight and returned to intuitive eating without even thinking about why I was doing it. When the normal menopausal weight gain started coming, I started gaining just a little weight. I think this is what she was referring to as the body re-setting its set point. Most people DO gain weight as they get older. Had I left well enough alone, I'd probably be between 135-140 right now. Unfortunately I'm about 25 lbs heavier.

And I blame that all on dieting.

I wonder what the difference would be for people who have NEVER been intuitive eaters (except for early childhood, when virtually all people eat intuitively)?

I'm finding it easier to move back toward intuitive eating because I spent about half of my life doing that. What about others who have no memory of EVER doing that? Can they succeed at it?

Unfortunately I do not have the answer to that. But I do hope that as this idea becomes more mainstream that we focus on making sure our children don't fall into the diet trap; rather, to develop the healthy habits she outlined and let their bodies be their guide as to when and how much to eat - not a number on a scale.


nelie
01-17-2014, 12:23 PM
I watched that myself yesterday and it is depressing but it is also a way that many can help make peace with themselves and their bodies. I read something a few months ago that it is expected that we'd have people of all different body shapes and sizes. Of course our modern world of too little activity and too much food, especially processed foods, has skewed it so overweight bodies are the norm vs just one of many 'natural' body types.

JohnP
01-17-2014, 12:59 PM
Newsflash!

Dieting doesn't work. Establishing healthy dietary habits does.

We are not all going to have model thin bikini bodies.

Ok got it. :D

All joking aside, I thought it was a good video. I wish she would have taken a moment longer around the 3:50 mark when she talks about the study that shows dieters who have lost 10% of their weight have slower metabolisms by 250 calories because it is mostly SPA and NEAT that decline, not BMR. This is good news because it means you can make up the difference by a small amount of activity. (Regular moderate exercise even brisk walking)

Great article on this. (http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=415)

Also, for our current environment, there are like a bazillion factors that contribute to the obesity problem. Well, not that many but it's amazing how many colliding factors there are. Check out this cool graph. (http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html)

I think most people could maintain weight loss by mindful eating if they get rid of modern processed food. How many apples can a person eat? Mindful eating plus potatoe chips will never work. Ever.

diamondgeog
01-17-2014, 01:00 PM
I will watch this. And I have come across the set point argument before. A BBC hour long documentary I watched where healthy people all upped their calories and some gained a lot more than others. But there is a lot of evidence to say people can loose significant amounts of weight and keep it off for, well, ever.

I think bodies want to be healthy and will shed weight given the chance. Sure there can be some medical complications for some.

And there are the success stories here. There are the success stories in the National Weight Registry. There are a lot of success stories at Huffington Post weight loss success stories.

I will agree though that diets overwhelmingly fail. I also think we might all have a range of weights our bodies want to be out. For sure. I might not get to 170 or even 180. I might find 190 is where I end up with. So diets no, lifestyle changes, yes.

Lifestyle changes succeed. And to me that means being ok with the time it takes for your body to shed the weight. It means plateaus. It means changing exercise routines. But if you are eating 'clean' and moving. Especially if you weren't like I was before then weight will come up. That weight wasn't a 'set point' it was there because of my previous lifestyle choices.

JohnP great post. Agree completely.

Locke
01-17-2014, 01:00 PM
I think there is a lot of wisdom in what she says but also some things that aren't quite justified by research. Set point theory not very well supported at this point. Remember that a theory is just one possible explanation for a set of data. People who are overweight have a hard time getting and staying thin. That's the data. Set point is only one explanation for that. An equally valid explanation is that old habits die hard. Remember that the brain is infinitely plastic- but change is difficult.

nelie
01-17-2014, 01:01 PM
I don't know john, I can eat a lot of apples... I've gained weight on eating a whole foods diet myself.

diamondgeog
01-17-2014, 01:09 PM
I also don't know how you would do a study like this. But if would be interesting to follow a 'dieting' group versus a 'lifestyle' group.

I don't know the criteria you would use to separate them. Maybe you could come up with it, have everyone journal and then based on what people actually did separate them then.

Because at the start everyone is going to say this is a lifestyle change.

time2lose
01-17-2014, 01:19 PM
Just the other day there was a blog post on Refuse to Regain about this talk - http://www.refusetoregain.com/2014/01/sandra-aamodt-why-dieting-doesnt-usually-work-video-on-tedcom.html

From Refuse to Regain
As an internist and obesity specialist for over 25 years, I can safely say that this is one of the more frustrating and misleading talks on weight I've heard. The information given by Ms. Aamodt is highly anecdotal and has many inaccuracies. The first red flag goes up in the earliest moments of the talk. Ms. Aamodt excitedly proclaims a loss of ten pounds on her new eating plan. She cites a lifelong struggle with weight, but there is nothing to suggest that she has ever been more than slightly overweight (including her picture at age 13). People who have never been severely overweight or obese fall into a different category than those that store fat avidly and easily and often make the mistake of believing that what works for them will translate to those who are significantly overweight. It is because she has misunderstood this vital point that intuitive eating seems like a solution to her. It may, in fact, work for someone her size, but is much, much more problematic for someone who is prone to extreme weight gain and who has many complex signals encouraging weight gain, not just in the brain but in the gut and adipose. - See more at: http://www.refusetoregain.com/2014/01/sandra-aamodt-why-dieting-doesnt-usually-work-video-on-tedcom.html#sthash.F4YE3DrA.dpuf

pixelllate
01-17-2014, 01:36 PM
There was an article response (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-antidepressant-diet/201201/springing-the-fat-trap) on Psychology today about the NYT article, The Fat Trap that I found interesting.
Does anyone succeed? Yes, but the number is far fewer than those who fail. But it is important to realize that an estimation of how many have succeeded is totally inaccurate because most former fatties do not announce their success to folk who know them only as thin people.

Personal anecdote, but I know quite a few people who used to be fat for years, but I never knew because they never mention it and they have maintained for years.

pixelllate
01-17-2014, 01:40 PM
I also don't know how you would do a study like this. But if would be interesting to follow a 'dieting' group versus a 'lifestyle' group.

I don't know the criteria you would use to separate them. Maybe you could come up with it, have everyone journal and then based on what people actually did separate them then.

Because at the start everyone is going to say this is a lifestyle change.

Sign me up. I'm a dieter and pretty cool with it.

Vex
01-17-2014, 01:52 PM
I think the one thing that can be inferred from John's graph link that he posted, is that there are MANY things can influence weight loss and maintenance. That's why it's so hard for one of us to say, "Do X thing and you'll lose X amount of weight."

Regarding diets... Personally I think that diets can lead to lifestyle change. For me, I didn't say, "I'm changing my habits and lifestyle." when I first started. When I first started, I said, "I'm dieting." Over time, those behaviors have become a lifestyle change.

For those people who can make instant, lasting lifestyle changes, I'm envious.

nelie
01-17-2014, 02:11 PM
Well I can say that my initial weight loss was a lifestyle change of exercising regularly and eating better foods. I was still well over 100 lbs overweight though... I then had to increase exercise and carefully watch my portions. That worked for a while but I have never been able to get under 200 lbs no matter what I've done. Whether it was carefully monitoring calories, exercising a lot, etc, etc. I think on some levels, I should've just been happy where I was at but I wanted that elusive under 200 lb number. This time around, I don't care if I don't get under 200. I'm just eating well, portion controlled and exercising regularly. Wherever I settle is where I'll stay. I'm fine with being overweight, even obese, as long as I'm now where near my original weight.

coolacrity
01-17-2014, 03:28 PM
Personally...I couldn't finish the video not because it was depressing or it made me angry (actually, it made a lot of sense out of why I regain so easily compared to other people). But she kept making this tsk'ing or smacking sound that I just couldn't stand. Like when someone's eating with their mouth open. Can't stand it.

I'll try again when I don't have to listen with earphones. Sounded interesting.

Radiojane
01-17-2014, 03:37 PM
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who are eating "mindfully" or "intuitively" and are obese. Especially emotional eaters. Most will tell you that they were listening to their body. Your mind can send powerful signals.

We've evolved (or devolved, depending on your perspective), to the poi9nt where we need to regulate ourselves because we can no longer depend on intuition.

Wannabeskinny
01-17-2014, 04:24 PM
Personally...I couldn't finish the video not because it was depressing or it made me angry (actually, it made a lot of sense out of why I regain so easily compared to other people). But she kept making this tsk'ing or smacking sound that I just couldn't stand. Like when someone's eating with their mouth open. Can't stand it.

I'll try again when I don't have to listen with earphones. Sounded interesting.

Yea I heard that too and it was really annoying. I found the whole thing annoying. I listened to it on Bluetooth in my car and I still heard the smacking sounds yuck.

I too was not impressed with the "I lost 10lbs and look at me now" statements. I refuse to believe that my set point is 199lbs and that no matter what I do my body will fight to stay there. "Set point goes up but it doesn't go down," "someone who's lost weight burns less calories than someone of the same weight that was never heavier" and "when your mother said life isn't fair this is what she was talking about" were some other statements that really turned me off. She offered no hope.

Mad Donnelly
01-18-2014, 12:55 PM
Boy is this depressing.
Geez, I had the exact same thought. I thought I was just distracted by the ill fitting dress and the dry mouth. Because I'd already come around to mindful eating, I knew what message she was trying to get across; but there's no way I'd have an a-ha moment from that clip. People hear "diets don't work" and they think someone is telling them not to even think about losing weight when that's not what it means at all.

Mrs Snark
01-18-2014, 03:41 PM
I am not a fan of the video and did not find her or her information that compelling.

If I listened to my body's signals, and I mean REALLY LISTENED HARD, I wouldn't fit through the door and my diet would be mainly Oreos and Fritos.

Intuitive eating isn't for me, personally, though I'm sure it will work wonderfully for some others. I think people shouldn't be afraid to try it, but also shouldn't be afraid (or feel like a failure, or feel broken) if it DOESN'T work for them.

Koshka
01-18-2014, 03:44 PM
If I listened to my body's signals, and I mean REALLY LISTENED HARD, I wouldn't fit through the door and my diet would be mainly Oreos and Fritos.


I love it! And, me too.

Dakini
01-18-2014, 06:24 PM
http://www.kaneconsulting.biz/wp-content/uploads/migrated/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/debbie-downer.jpg

:lol: Sorry, but I couldn't resist. That talk was a downer!

Okay but seriously now... her point of staying at a "height weight" for too long makes a lot of sense, which is why 85% of people usually gain their weight back within 5 years time, and then some. (I think she made a point of a 7 year time frame, though.) I think she's on the right track... but for those of us (*raises hand*) who never really practiced dietary habits, it's very hard to eat mindfully. Plus, if you're of my mindset that processed foods containing sugar and salt are extremely addictive substances, then it's hard knowing when to put the fork down, as they say.

Anyway, I did enjoy her talk though. I think she does make a lot of sense and I think the most important thing to walk away from that talk that everyone can agree upon is the underlying theme of self love that we seem to lack in our society today. It seems that there is so much pressure placed on people to look a certain way. If we don't look a certain way, then it is implied that we are not entitled to love.

Actually, while watching this, I thought about a beautiful, sexy young woman whom I know of who has a lot going for her. She's very cute and intelligent and talented, yet she is obsessed with her body. She admitted in so few words that she suffered from eating disorders/body dysmorphia, and it just breaks my heart to think that she cannot see what I and other people see in her. I would *love* to have her body, but for her, she doesn't think it's good enough, for whatever reason she has in her mind.

But then that got me to thinking... well, aren't I being hypocritical? Perhaps there's a person out there who is 100lbs.+ heavier than me right now who'd LOVE to be at my weight... who would love to take me by the shoulders and shake me and go, "What is wrong with you? You are beautiful!"

So I think it's very important to (as the old saying goes) learn to love ourselves before we ever even start the diet/lifestyle change game. If we can't love ourselves with the 10 extra or 200 extra pounds, then how are we going to love ourselves when we reach our goal weight? What then? We have to have perkier boobs next, or hair extensions, or a gap between our thighs or flawless skin, etc.? That's why for the past year or so I've been working on *why* I want to be thinner; it's because I feel awful. And when I feel awful, I cannot be a service to other sentient beings the way I would like to, let alone myself. Once I got to that point, making the decision to try to slowly change my "bad habits" appeared to be something that I could actually do and succeed at. Sure, I'm not sure if I'll ever be a size 12 or smaller again, but at this point, I'm not sure I even care if that happens. I just want to be healthy and use my body to serve the world in the best way I can. And I think that's what matters most in this life-- not makeup and jewelry and fashion and getting a 6 pack. All those things are nice time wasters, but... when it comes down to it, does it really matter? When we look at heroes like Mother Theresa and Martin Luther King, Jr. and Nelson Mandella, do we really care what they look like or how big their waist is or what designer shirt they're wearing? Of course not. They were beautiful because they were beacons of light and hope, not because they were properly photoshopped on Vogue.

Anyway, that's my rant. Take it for what it's worth. But to summarize: I agree with mindful eating *to a point*, but I still think the most important key to losing weight and staying healthy is self-love. I think there is a fine line between the two-- at least in terms of how she was describing mindful eating in her talk (i.e. a more physiological stance rather than a spiritual one).

kelijpa
01-18-2014, 11:07 PM
I haven't gotten to watching the video yet, so can't/won't comment on that, but loved reading the comments and was especially struck by Dakini's aha moment: But then that got me to thinking... well, aren't I being hypocritical? Perhaps there's a person out there who is 100lbs.+ heavier than me right now who'd LOVE to be at my weight... who would love to take me by the shoulders and shake me and go, "What is wrong with you? You are beautiful!"
Thanks for that :sunny:

ReillyJ
01-19-2014, 12:22 AM
i haven't watched the vid yet (ducks head) but to me mindful eating only means when i eat my carefully thought out, portion controlled diet plan :D i make sure to focus on my food, how it tastes, and the pleasure i get from it instead of popping something into my mouth while doing a thousand other things and not savoring the experience.

If i mindfully ate how i did when i was 100 lb's heavier, i still would be eating FAR more calories than i do now

Mad Donnelly
01-19-2014, 12:39 AM
Well, first I had to wrap my head around how a "naturally thin person" thinks. I.E., those people that naturally can take just a handful of potato chips and have it hit the spot. Or for whom 1 slice of pizza suffices and that eating 3 or 4 slices would never occur to them. Once I got that, it made sense to me. I dunno why but I'm glad it did.

I had something weird happen to me today. I suddenly craved cauliflower. Never happened to me before.

freelancemomma
01-19-2014, 01:06 AM
Well, first I had to wrap my head around how a "naturally thin person" thinks. I.E., those people that naturally can take just a handful of potato chips and have it hit the spot. Or for whom 1 slice of pizza suffices and that eating 3 or 4 slices would never occur to them.

Yeah, I think that's by far the biggest difference between naturally thin and overweight people -- not set point, not metabolism, not any immutable biochemical destiny. It's what food means and doesn't mean to them. We crave fullness, they don't. We experience food as solace, they don't. We derive a type of pleasure from food that they simply don't.

JMHO Freelance

pixelllate
01-19-2014, 12:18 PM
Yeah, I think that's by far the biggest difference between naturally thin and overweight people -- not set point, not metabolism, not any immutable biochemical destiny. It's what food means and doesn't mean to them. We crave fullness, they don't. We experience food as solace, they don't. We derive a type of pleasure from food that they simply don't.

JMHO Freelance

Yuppp. While I don't have that naturally-thin mindset, I can understand it - most of my family/friends are like that, including carb-lovers. My 117 lb, 5'6'' aunt maintains easily at nearly 50 years old, never tried to lose weight and she's a total carb-lover, but isn't obsessed with the act of eating all the time like I can be. Perhaps in another environment, I could have grown up not-chubby, but various family/environmental combined with the love of eating past-hunger resulted in my higher weight. Ah well! Fortunately, its one of my few "vices" (I don't feel any slight affinity to cigs or alcohol)

ReillyJ
01-19-2014, 04:40 PM
Well, first I had to wrap my head around how a "naturally thin person" thinks. I.E., those people that naturally can take just a handful of potato chips and have it hit the spot. Or for whom 1 slice of pizza suffices and that eating 3 or 4 slices would never occur to them. Once I got that, it made sense to me. I dunno why but I'm glad it did.

I had something weird happen to me today. I suddenly craved cauliflower. Never happened to me before.

I'll never be that way (satisfied like how a "naturally thin" person eats) i just exercise a lot of self discipline BUT i agree with the later part in that since i eat mostly clean, i find i crave good healthy food much more and enjoy healthy foods i would have never touched before and that's a good thing!

jhinako
01-19-2014, 07:59 PM
I didn't watch the video. I'll be honest. I don't know what she presented in it, but obviously it was spun in the wrong light. I honestly think there is a lot of sense in Mindful and Intuitive eating. For anyone who is frustrated and not seeing results, I definitely recommend this book called "The Overfed Head" by Rob Stevens. You can download the pdf for free if you google it. It really laid out exactly what mindful eating is all about and why we are so sure we can't be satisfied with less food.

I'm not far into my journey, but I'll just tell you how it's gone for me. I've been trying this since December 27th and I've lost 6 lbs in 3 weeks, so 2 lbs a week. I seriously feel like my life has been changed. I have *become* one of those women who is satisfied with a few of something, or 1 slice of pizza. Once you realize the difference between actual physical hunger and unrelated cravings, you CAN do this! When I am paying attention to my body and how I feel while eating the food, it actually becomes really easy to realize when you're satiated before you hit that full mark. I've come to really dislike the feeling of being full. I can literally eat whatever it is that I want and KNOW that I won't overeat because I trust myself now. I don't count calories now, I just trust that I will know when I'm full and it has worked for me, even with my favorite foods!

The book really explains how we have issues with food that are caused by years of dieting and how to over come them.

Of course you guys are completely free to do what you want, but I'm just saying, don't discount this completely. If you're curious, check it out. Read the book(PDF). It might change your mind.

I know it's easy to discount what I'm saying because I'm still new to this idea, so if it continues to go well for me, I'll be sure to update when I get where I'm heading, weightwise. =D

IanG
01-19-2014, 08:55 PM
Yes, that's right. My set-point was 281lbs!

What a load of BS!

laciemn
01-19-2014, 11:51 PM
One one hand, there are some really interesting TedTalks, but on the other hand, many of the scientific talks are too simplistic. By setpoint,I believe she is referring to the feedback system which regulates our bodies. There is certain no defined "setpoint" for weight like there is for body temperature, for example.

Even if the brain triggers hunger falsely, the brain does this all the time with other signals too (the hypothalamus may stimulate the adrenal glands under non-threatening circumstances, for example) It is our job to recognize the flawed nature of our own brains. Often, the brain's misleading hunger signals will resolve itself after some time on a normal diet. Time passes and certain characteristics (such as the instinct to overeat) are no longer useful for our survival, and we must be smart enough to realize that and not be tricked by our own biology.

diamondgeog
01-20-2014, 07:29 AM
good points laciemn. I believe that not only is there not a weight setpoint, but metabolism can and does change. Especially with a combination of regular good eating and exercise, notably running. Cravings can and do change. The body/mind is amazingly resilient and can rebound back to 'normal' operating range.

There might be some tipping point where the body can't get better or back to a better operating level. But hopefully most take successful actions before then.

SouthernMaven
01-20-2014, 08:22 AM
I honestly think there is a lot of sense in Mindful and Intuitive eating. For anyone who is frustrated and not seeing results, I definitely recommend this book called "The Overfed Head" by Rob Stevens. You can download the pdf for free if you google it. It really laid out exactly what mindful eating is all about and why we are so sure we can't be satisfied with less food.

Overfed Head is, so far, the best book I've read on the subject of intuitive eating. It is so straightforward and honest, and no psychobabble, like so many of the others out there. Right now I'm reading Overcoming Overeating by Hirschmann and Munter. It's one of the better ones I've read, but still too much analysis in there to suit my taste. Yet, it does have some useful insights and I think many people might find it useful. Everyone's needs are different.

I'm not far into my journey, but I'll just tell you how it's gone for me. I've been trying this since December 27th and I've lost 6 lbs in 3 weeks, so 2 lbs a week. I seriously feel like my life has been changed. I have *become* one of those women who is satisfied with a few of something, or 1 slice of pizza. Once you realize the difference between actual physical hunger and unrelated cravings, you CAN do this! When I am paying attention to my body and how I feel while eating the food, it actually becomes really easy to realize when you're satiated before you hit that full mark. I've come to really dislike the feeling of being full. I can literally eat whatever it is that I want and KNOW that I won't overeat because I trust myself now. I don't count calories now, I just trust that I will know when I'm full and it has worked for me, even with my favorite foods!

I'm glad to hear that you are having such success. I do want to provide a word of caution, however - it's just as easy to stray from IE as it is from a restrictive diet. You can go one of two ways - just ignoring your body altogether, in which case you will put on weight - and FAST! - OR.... not seeing any appreciable weight loss (or an initial weight loss following by no loss or some gain) and then jumping back on the diet roller-coaster.

It's very easy to make IE into a diet. Some people do. I was doing well on IE when life suddenly life got in the way and I just began to ignore my body's signals. For me, the most important thing to do is to always eat without distractions. That is the one thing that triggers my overeating. I've learned that about myself...the hard way. But I'm glad I had the experience.

Of course you guys are completely free to do what you want, but I'm just saying, don't discount this completely. If you're curious, check it out. Read the book(PDF). It might change your mind.

It might, or it might not. After really studying and practicing IE for almost a year now, I am convinced that

1. It is NOT for everyone, and
2. Even if it IS meant for someone, it will not work until they reach the point in their lives when they know they simply can no longer diet, NO MATTER WHAT.

I also truly believe that a person has to accept that they may never lose another pound. I fought against this idea for a long time, but now I understand it, although I don't think I could ever explain it. You just have to come to it.

And most importantly, you really do have to get rid of the scale. Really. I'm convinced it won't work otherwise.

Wannabeskinny
01-20-2014, 08:34 AM
Yes, that's right. My set-point was 281lbs!

What a load of BS!

I agree with this. I refuse to believe that I'm meant to be 200lbs, that that is all I can ever achieve and that's all there is to it. And I hate the thought that dieting and changing my lifestyle will only result in more weight gain and that I'm always going to bounce back to 200lbs.

Somehow I think the universe thinks more of me than that.

pixelllate
01-21-2014, 10:18 AM
I also wanted to add that I love that I can experience the euphoria of eating food but at the same time, through hard work and working with my "naturally not-thin" self, I can be thin on the outside! Seems like the best of both worlds! I know thin foodies exist, but I don't know any personally - all the naturally thin people I know are very "meh" towards food in general. I love the sensation of eating the food, as long as I can also maintain a degree of leanness at the same time.

Locke
01-21-2014, 10:28 AM
I also wanted to add that I love that I can experience the euphoria of eating food but at the same time, through hard work and working with my "naturally not-thin" self, I can be thin on the outside! Seems like the best of both worlds! I know thin foodies exist, but I don't know any personally - all the naturally thin people I know are very "meh" towards food in general. I love the sensation of eating the food, as long as I can also maintain a degree of leanness at the same time.

I've been working on intuitive eating and to me it seems like the first few bites of food taste the best, then the taste rapidly diminishes. I think it is quite possible to really enjoy food and still eat very lightly.

Radiojane
01-21-2014, 10:52 AM
I agree with this. I refuse to believe that I'm meant to be 200lbs, that that is all I can ever achieve and that's all there is to it. And I hate the thought that dieting and changing my lifestyle will only result in more weight gain and that I'm always going to bounce back to 200lbs.

Somehow I think the universe thinks more of me than that.

I've had "set point" thrown at me a lot recently, because I went through a major long term plateau when I hit the weight I had more or less maintained at through college. Even my mom pointed out that my dad was at his healthiest and most active when he was around the same age and weight.

I refuse to believe that just because I function well at nearly 400 pounds means I'll never see 190 again.

pixelllate
01-21-2014, 11:14 AM
I've been working on intuitive eating and to me it seems like the first few bites of food taste the best, then the taste rapidly diminishes. I think it is quite possible to really enjoy food and still eat very lightly.

Personally, I'm more of an eater - even if its not delicious, I love the feeling I get from simply eating a ton. I love both eating as well as taste, but if I had to choose one, for me, its more about the act of eating. I would try the eat the first 3 bites thing (I heard that Paris Hilton does the same thing!) but it never worked for me. Instead, I do the opposite, eat a lot of not super tasty but really low cal food. LOL

I know that its totally possible and quite common- such as Giada de Laurentiis and many food bloggers, I'm just saying that I don't know any personally.

LilDazed
01-21-2014, 11:19 AM
I also wanted to add that I love that I can experience the euphoria of eating food but at the same time, through hard work and working with my "naturally not-thin" self, I can be thin on the outside! Seems like the best of both worlds! I know thin foodies exist, but I don't know any personally - all the naturally thin people I know are very "meh" towards food in general. I love the sensation of eating the food, as long as I can also maintain a degree of leanness at the same time.

I actually read a blog this guy wrote and he was freaking out (in a funny, overdramatic way) about how some of his friends don't view food the same way he does. I remember he said something along the lines of "I thought everyone loved food as much as I did! This is news to me! Whaaaat!"

Funny stuff. =P But it is interesting to hear about people who aren't that into food (especially trying new foods. Hello? It's fun.)

SouthernMaven
01-21-2014, 12:30 PM
Personally, I'm more of an eater - even if its not delicious, I love the feeling I get from simply eating a ton. I love both eating as well as taste, but if I had to choose one, for me, its more about the act of eating. I would try the eat the first 3 bites thing (I heard that Paris Hilton does the same thing!) but it never worked for me. Instead, I do the opposite, eat a lot of not super tasty but really low cal food. LOL

I know that its totally possible and quite common- such as Giada de Laurentiis and many food bloggers, I'm just saying that I don't know any personally.

I found your post very interesting, pixelllate. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever express that they actually prefer the act of eating over the taste of the food.

I wish I were that way! LOL

For those who truly believe that if they were to try and practice intuitive eating all they would eat would be , I can guarantee that for virtually 100% of people this simply isn't true. I believed that as well, which is why I resisted IE for so long. Yes, you may eat "bad food" for awhile, but our bodies are amazing machines and if we pay attention to them, they will ultimately direct us to eat what we truly need.

Any woman who's ever been pregnant knows that. As expectant mothers I think we are all more in-tune with our bodies than at any other time. I had cravings, but it wasn't for pickles and ice cream (although those aren't necessarily bad either if they meet the mother's nutritional needs). Mine tended toward proteins and foods high in iron, which certainly makes sense.

I went back and watched the video again (and I still am not bothered by the annoying sounds others mentioned - they are barely perceptible to me). I wish she really had expounded more on the principles of IE itself, but I think her real point was to drive home the idea that diets don't work and that we need to make sure our children - particularly females - get that message. That's what I took away from it.

At the heart of IE is this; we need to listen to our bodies, learn to distinguish between mouth and stomach hunger, and I think most importantly begin then to address WHY we reach for food when we are [I]not hungry.

Until people learn to deal with the real emotional issues behind their overeating, diets really will never solve the problem for the vast majority of overweight people. And part of practicing IE is exactly that - learning to not use food as a soothing mechanism. It may be that resistance to the whole idea of intuitive eating is that if we are only eating to nourish our bodies rather than soothe ourselves, then we will no longer derive pleasure from eating.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Mrs Snark
01-21-2014, 01:16 PM
For those who truly believe that if they were to try and practice intuitive eating all they would eat would be [insert name of "bad food" here], I can guarantee that for virtually 100% of people this simply isn't true.

Noooooope. I'm very glad IE works for you, but I think you are overreaching when you think you know other people's bodies better than they do. You do not.

SouthernMaven
01-21-2014, 01:27 PM
Noooooope. I'm very glad IE works for you, but I think you are overreaching when you think you know other people's bodies better than they do. You do not.

My bad; should have said "my opinion" rather than "I guarantee."

Mrs Snark
01-21-2014, 01:29 PM
I think you misunderstand my tone. Think "amused" not "testy". :)


Edited to add: hard for this^^^^^ to makes sense since you edited your post calling me testy -- I can hear someone somewhere screaming CONTINUITY ERROR! ;)

SouthernMaven
01-21-2014, 01:31 PM
I think you misunderstand my tone. Think "amused" not "testy". :)

Mrs. Snark - I realized what I had written after I wrote that and edited it before I saw this.

Sorry I misunderstood your tone. And I really meant to state that it is only my opinion; I hate when people think they know their bodies better than I do so I wouldn't blame you for being testy!

Locke
01-21-2014, 01:44 PM
Noooooope. I'm very glad IE works for you, but I think you are overreaching when you think you know other people's bodies better than they do. You do not.

I'm certainly of the opinion that there is no one way that works for everyone. That said, I would have agreed with most of the people here that intuitive eating doesn't work for me until I had read books and actually tried it. I thought my body was broken and that I'd never be able to eat the way it wanted because I horked down hard alcohol like soda pop and binged terribly. Then when I actually stopped and really listened to my appetite and distinguished that voice from cravings I found that I tend to eat like a thin person.

If my cravings had their way I'd eat terribly, but my "real" hunger is satisfied with healthy foods and maybe a treat in moderation. I only learned that after trying to eat intuitively, although I'll reiterate that one thing doesn't work for everyone.

magical
01-21-2014, 01:46 PM
Isn't our weight set point the weight we were at puberty (after we stopped growing)? (Don't think it applies to those who were overweight at puberty but for others?)

I know that I'd struggle to maintain if I tried going below 125, which was my weight at puberty. Of course, if we continued to diet and restrict, we can get to whatever weight we wanted but that would have more negative effects than positive ones.

Sorry, I didn't actually watch the video, just reading the posts on this thread on set points.

Wannabeskinny
01-21-2014, 01:47 PM
Southernmaven it's interesting that you say that about pregnancy. When I fell pregnant my eating habits changed drastically. I finally understood how normal people ate. I was eating reasonable portions, wasn't hungry every minute of the day, was craving very fresh foods like salads and avocados daily, and I didn't deny myself anything. I never overindulged and didn't think about food 24/7. I was so normal. I miss it terribly. But my eating disorder came back quickly after giving birth.

Mrs Snark
01-21-2014, 01:48 PM
Mrs. Snark - I realized what I had written after I wrote that and edited it before I saw this.

Sorry I misunderstood your tone. And I really meant to state that it is only my opinion; I hate when people think they know their bodies better than I do so I wouldn't blame you for being testy!

We're all good.

I have to realize that on the internet not everyone can hear the voices in my head. My "noooooope" probably DID come across as testy or maybe even jerky, when really I am doing the Lana voice from the series Archer (any Archer fans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?). But the only person who knows that is me.

I'm often too goofy for my own good. :)

LilDazed
01-21-2014, 02:00 PM
We're all good.

I have to realize that on the internet not everyone can hear the voices in my head. My "noooooope" probably DID come across as testy or maybe even jerky, when really I am doing the Lana voice from the series Archer (any Archer fans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?). But the only person who knows that is me.

I'm often too goofy for my own good. :)

I LOVE Archer. :D Such a good series.

SouthernMaven
01-21-2014, 02:05 PM
We're all good.

I have to realize that on the internet not everyone can hear the voices in my head. My "noooooope" probably DID come across as testy or maybe even jerky, when really I am doing the Lana voice from the series Archer (any Archer fans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?). But the only person who knows that is me.

I'm often too goofy for my own good. :)

I've never seen Archer. May have to check it out!

Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I haven't had my coffee quota today. :coffee:

Mrs Snark
01-21-2014, 02:13 PM
I've never seen Archer. May have to check it out!

Oh gosh, now I feel I must warn you that Archer is very, very, very rude; and very, very, very, very crude; and super filthy; and rude; and really, really crude. And did I mention rude? Definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

Of course, I love it.

But I don't want you to sit down with your dear, sweet gandmother (or a child) and flip it on unawares, lol.

I LOVE Archer. Such a good series.

You and me both, sister.

Also, sorry for all the Off-Topic, Wannabeskinny!

SouthernMaven
01-21-2014, 02:24 PM
Southernmaven it's interesting that you say that about pregnancy. When I fell pregnant my eating habits changed drastically. I finally understood how normal people ate. I was eating reasonable portions, wasn't hungry every minute of the day, was craving very fresh foods like salads and avocados daily, and I didn't deny myself anything. I never overindulged and didn't think about food 24/7. I was so normal. I miss it terribly. But my eating disorder came back quickly after giving birth.

I loved never having to worry about what I ate - I was overweight when I became pregnant and had been on the diet roller-coaster for about 10 years prior to that. Being sick for the first five months caused me to lose a lot of weight initially, but even if I hadn't I suspect I would have thrown caution to the wind anyway. (and who knows WHAT I would have weighed!) As it was I felt free to eat as much as I wanted and whatever I wanted. It was quite liberating, I must admit.

I am so sorry you have such a struggle with your eating disorder. I've followed you on the forums for the better part of a year and I have great sympathy as well as admiration for you. You have a lot of tenacity!

Radiojane
01-21-2014, 02:35 PM
I love Archer. can totally hear the Lana voice.

One thing that I am grateful for on this journey is that I've learned enough to know that if and when I'm lucky enough to be pregnant, I am armed with the knowledge that it won't be healthy for either me or my child if I turn it into an eating free for all.

Wannabeskinny
01-21-2014, 04:32 PM
I loved never having to worry about what I ate - I was overweight when I became pregnant and had been on the diet roller-coaster for about 10 years prior to that. Being sick for the first five months caused me to lose a lot of weight initially, but even if I hadn't I suspect I would have thrown caution to the wind anyway. (and who knows WHAT I would have weighed!) As it was I felt free to eat as much as I wanted and whatever I wanted. It was quite liberating, I must admit.

I am so sorry you have such a struggle with your eating disorder. I've followed you on the forums for the better part of a year and I have great sympathy as well as admiration for you. You have a lot of tenacity!

Thanks, I should have mentioned that when I gave birth I weighed 10lbs less than when I fell pregnant. Such a happy time, I was at 179 when I gave birth. Wow, I've gained 20lbs since having a baby. So sad.

pixelllate
01-22-2014, 11:21 AM
I found your post very interesting, pixelllate. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever express that they actually prefer the act of eating over the taste of the food.

I wish I were that way! LOL

ha! no, I promise its way more awful than it sounds.
Once I have the binge or even just overeating urge, all foods can be highly dangerous unless its like "fiber pills" or something gross if eaten in high quantities lol like GG Bran Crackers.

SouthernMaven
01-22-2014, 12:18 PM
ha! no, I promise its way more awful than it sounds.
Once I have the binge or even just overeating urge, all foods can be highly dangerous unless its like "fiber pills" or something gross if eaten in high quantities lol like GG Bran Crackers.

Yes, once I thought about that I realized it probably isn't a good way to be - you can overeat on almost anything, not just Zapps Hotter 'n Hot Jalapeno Potato Chips (my personal kryptonite food).

Munchy
01-22-2014, 01:04 PM
ha! no, I promise its way more awful than it sounds.
Once I have the binge or even just overeating urge, all foods can be highly dangerous unless its like "fiber pills" or something gross if eaten in high quantities lol like GG Bran Crackers.

I totally get that.
When I lived alone, I would keep almost no "dangerous" foods on hand. The only things I had were fresh and frozen vegetables and sugar free condiments. This led to binging but no weight gain. I didn't care about the calories because they were such negligible foods (especially because I tended to eat as little as possible otherwise), but the act of eating in that kind of quick, depressive state was so scary to me that I started OA. When I ate 12 egg whites or when I ate a baked sliced onion, I knew it was really bad.
Now, I have my off days, but I certainly don't binge that way anymore. I had a healthy catering business about ten years ago and ever since, I've embraced foods instead of trying to hard to battle my love for them. It was a really tough journey.

Wannabeskinny
01-22-2014, 01:47 PM
Wow a baked half onion and egg whites. I'm sad just thinking about it.

Locke
01-22-2014, 02:10 PM
I followed a no oil vegan diet of whole foods to prevent binges which of course only led to more binges. At one point I was eating plain baked potatoes, brown rice, mushrooms, and green vegetables for every meal. No condiments and only water to wash it down. I could eat that way for weeks but I felt terrible and I obsessed about eating forbidden foods. I, too, have eaten a baked onion (plain) as part of a plan. I didn't binge on it, but I ate it because I was afraid that to eat anything with sugar, or anything processed would send me into a binge.

So now I am incorporating small amounts of processed foods as treats a few times a week. I'm not a carb addict- I am a bulimic. I can go for weeks and months without sugars, added fats, and processed foods. The problem is that when I restrict myself I start a cycle that will eventually lead to a binge. I have been easily eating dieting "no-no" foods in small, infrequent quantities. I feel much more sane and I feel that I can do this for the long term, too.

I knew that I would be okay the day that I ate half a donut from a full box at work. I savored that treat. Each bite was delicious. Then I dusted off my hands, left the room, and got a glass of water. I didn't obsess over the rest of them in there, I just enjoyed my treat then continued on with my work.

Munchy
01-22-2014, 02:36 PM
Wow a baked half onion and egg whites. I'm sad just thinking about it.

It was so sad. I could sit there and eat for hours and hours and I was just stuffed. In one binge session I could eat a box of frozen brussels sprouts, one or two huge bowls of steamed broccoli, a portobello mushroom, two cucumbers, and more. If that's all you're eating in a day, which was the case since I lived off of coffee other than my binges, you really won't gain any weight at all.

The behavior was so crazy that it really scared me into OA and eventually therapy when I was pregnant. I was really terrified of being pregnant because it would mean that my unhealthy eating habits would be transferred to an entire other being inside of me.

I wish I could say it was "fixed" but although I keep my foods super healthy and often eat at a very low calorie count, I'm not afraid of foods anymore.

BettyBooty
01-23-2014, 10:01 AM
I couldn't do a whole IE way of life, but I do notice that there are times when I creave fresh fruit and veggies, as opposed to times when I crave cookies or pizza. I guess on some level my body is telling me what it needs and I am paying attention.

When I was pregnant with my first, I ate whatever I wanted and didn't really care about weight gain. I ate good, healthy things like cucumbers and tomatoes, fresh fruit, greek yogurt, oatmeal, and I ate unhealthy things like onion rings, milkshakes, and candy. I guess it was IE, beacuse I put no limits on myself and ate when hungry. I gained over 60 lbs. It was a b* to lose, and when I get pregnant with no. 2, I still indulged in the occasional side of fries or ice cream cone, but I had to watch myself so much more and not give in any time I wanted a treat. I still gained 45 lbs with that pregnancy, but that was better than 60+, and I started theat pregnancy 10 lbs under my starting weight with no. 1.

nads84
03-11-2014, 04:13 PM
watched this this morning and had to share...

https://www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work

Been maintaining within 10lbs for going on 4 years and I'm not sure I will ever be an intuitive eater. .....sigh.....

Locke
03-11-2014, 04:19 PM
Have you tried to eat intuitively? Have you read books on the subject? I thought I was the last person who would be able to be an intuitive eater- but here I am eating when I'm hungry and stopping when I'm full.

nads84
03-11-2014, 04:39 PM
i have, yes. i have hunger/full signals that i recognize and honour (in line with intuitive eating), however, if given the choice/freedom to eat as much and whatever i wanted i would in a heartbeat regardless of hunger/fullness cues. to me, this means i am naturally a controlled eater as i have to consciously make food choices and will have to do so for the rest of my life.

kaplods
03-11-2014, 10:41 PM
Over the past four decades, I've read at least a dozen books on intuitive eating, and have tried countless intuitive eating techniques. Some of the strategies were helpful to a point (to a very limited degee), but intuitive eating as a whole doesn't work for me unless I absolutely eliminate certain foods (which is incompatible with most intuitive eating theories).

I probably would have better luck using crystal meth, crack, or heroin intuitively than sugar.

I can eat intuitive eating successfully only when two other conditions are in place: 1. It is not the 7-10 days of pms/tom, and 2. I'm eating an enrirely unprocessed, high-veggie, low-carb diet.

I cannot choose my foods intuitively, I can only (and only to a very limited degree and in limited situations) use some intuitive strategies.

Whenever I try to abandon tight calorie and carb control, in favor of mindful eating, I gain weight unless carbs are drastically limited.

On no-carb or super-low carb, I have virtually no hunger and must eat every few hours even though I'm not hungry at all. Otherwise, I would pass out without ever feeling actual hunger. I know this because I have. Now I luckily recognize sudden light-headedness as hunger, but I never feel that kind of hunger except on strict low-carb.

After reading David Kessler's book, The End of Overeating, I finally came to understand why I cannot eat intuitively. I have an addiction-like response to high glycemic carbs, especially when combined with fat and salt.

I do not believe I have an addictive personality, as I've never been drawn to drugs, alcohol, nicotine, or risk-taking behavior. Even when I've had to be on strong pain killers for long-term injury recovery (such as when I herniated a disc in my back) I've been able to quickly wean off the narcotics with no problem or desire to use the meds when I didn't need them. Even when I was in college, I drank about as much as the average great-grandmother (probably less, as for me a night of heavy drinking was three wine coolets in the span of six hours, with die colas in between so I wouldn't fall asleep from the first wine cooler).

I think intuitive eating strategies are worth a shot, but they're not effective for everyone, or in every situation, and there's no shame in needing an arsenal of food/weight management strategies.

carter
03-12-2014, 09:33 AM
The reason I have trouble with intuitive eating approaches is that for me eating is largely recreational - and largely decoupled from actual hunger signals. I can tell the difference between being hungry and being sated - I just, most of the time, don't care. If the food is present and enjoyable to eat, I'd rather eat it than not, regardless of whether I'm hungry.

So, listening to hunger cues, or counting calories, both require the mental discipline of not eating for pleasure beyond a certain limit. It doesn't matter much whether that limit is "when I'm no longer hungry" or "when I reach my allotted calories for the meal/day." It requires pretty much the same effort from me, regardless of which limit I set. I prefer calories because it is objective. I can rationalize away eating just a little bit more when I'm basing the eating on interpretation of hunger cues. I can't rationalize it away as easily when I'm at my calorie limit.