[tattooedmommy]

I started a low fat low calorie diet on dec. 29th and then again seriously on Jan 1. I have done really well with my water and eating and exercising since hte 1st and have lost 5lbs. I think i would like to try weight watchers, but without going to the meetings. I dont know if it is healthy for me to switch to another diet while i am in the middle of one, but i dont seem to have the same results as someone my speed on the weight watchers plan. I really am looking for a diet that will reward all my efforts and have received rave reviews about this one. I am not sure how to get started and if i make the switch will i gain until my body gets used to it? I guess i am just looking for some guidance or encouragement.

[txlawchic]

Tatooedmommy,

Congratulations on your weight loss efforts so far. I don't believe that you would have a gain from starting either WW program. You can do WW at home through their website, also their is a forum on this site which is made up of 'at-homers' . Good luck!

[sugarholic]

I started WW on their website just to get the hang of it, it's pretty cheap, but not cheap enough for me to pay for anymore since I'm a full time student and mom. I went on ebay and bought the food tracker point book and the Eating out point book and just make sure that I stay under my 20 points a day. Some people need the extra support of the meetings, or some like myself seem to find enough support on this site. WW is the best diet I have ever done because you can eat WHATEVER you want. I found that when I try to follow a diet that doesn't let me have the foods that I crave, I eventually fall off the diet and go crazy eating everything that I haven't been able to eat while dieting. At least with WW, if you want a slice of pizza you can have it, if you want Taco Bell or chocolate, you can have it. So there is no reason to fall off the diet. If you do fall off one day, you can always cut your points lower for the next couple days to make up for that day and then you don't feel like crap for cheating and your most likely to still see results on the scale that week. One rule about WW is that you only weigh yourself once a week, same time same day. I do it in the am, butt naked, before I have touched any food or water. I just restarted this week, but have had excellent success in the past with this diet. I lost 24 lbs in about 2 months. And to tell you the truth I only put about 11 lbs back on and I was eating everything and anything, plus I lost the weight for my wedding, then after the wedding stress left I pigged out. But I'm back on the plan with my biggest challenge yet, I'm trying to get down to like a junior high weight ha ha. But it won't hurt to try!!

[Kelly_S]

Originally Posted by sugarholic

...just make sure that I stay under my 20 points a day.

You DO NOT want to be under 20 points a day. THAT IS THE BARE MINIMUM points for a person. You want to be above that (within the 20 TargetPoints + any ActivityPoints (if you choose these) + the 35 WeeklyPointsAllowance).

Now W/W is just really a low-fat low-calorie diet. Not ultra low calorie but enough to make sure your body doesn't think you are starving it...but with the APs and FPs giving you enough to enjoy your life while losing weight.

[Emerald]

Yikes! Under 20! No, no, no... I can hardly stay on target, much less under! I bow to your efforts, but that is not enough food! I actually lose better if I have several of my FPs too.

I do not attend meetings anymore because I simply can't afford the extra, especially when I can meet with ladies at my church and a scale for free. But, I have the materials from joining in the past. If you do it on your own, RESEARCH!!! Maybe even attend a meeting or two OR use the website for a month. Make sure you know the basics. Make sure you are eating enough of the right kinds of foods.

As for the switch, I was thinking the same thing Kelly said. To do well on WW, you have to eat low fat/low calorie, or you will not be getting much food for the points! I don't think you should have a problem at all. If so, just for a week or so.

Good luck!

[sugarholic]

Ok I should have said "stay within in 20 points instead of under" and I have researched this, I belonged to the WW website and they are the ones that gave me my point range. Because I am under 150lbs, my point range is 18-23 so I can fall under 20 points and still be within my range. I chose 20 points because it is in the middle of my range, then if I want to go over I have 3 points to go over and if I go under for the day I have 2 points to go under. And actually my doctor said he would really like to see me work my way down to the 18-19 point range. I wasn't telling tatoomama to stay under 20 points, I was telling her that is what I do. I'm not sure where you read that nobody is supposed to go under 20 points, but according to WW I am because I am only 4ft 11. We are all different, I find if I stay around 23 points I don't tend to lose at all. Therefore, I do need to sometimes go under my 20 points and yes the first couple days I was hungry, but I am not starving and I do eat 3 full balanced meals a day with room for a snack or two.

[Kelly_S]

Originally Posted by sugarholic

Ok I should have said "stay within in 20 points instead of under" and I have researched this, I belonged to the WW website and they are the ones that gave me my point range. Because I am under 150lbs, my point range is 18-23 so I can fall under 20 points and still be within my range. I chose 20 points because it is in the middle of my range, then if I want to go over I have 3 points to go over and if I go under for the day I have 2 points to go under. And actually my doctor said he would really like to see me work my way down to the 18-19 point range.

First all does your doctor know that the caloric intake for the ranges for W/W are:

18 = 1050
19 = 1100
20 = 1150
21 = 1200
22 = 1250
23 = 1300
24 = 1350
25 = 1400
26 = 1450
27 = 1500
28 = 1550
29 = 1600
30 = 1650
31 = 1700
32 = 1750
33 = 1800
34 = 1850
35 = 1900

in general terms (it can be a bit more or less depending on the fat and fiber intake) however these do not include the 200-250 a day that W/W built into the program for free veggies? As you can see for an even low active person 18 points a day (1050 + 200/250 = 1250-1300) is just very, very minimum. If you look at Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) many of us need to be much higher than that. My next part will be how to determine how much you burn. If you don't factor in activity that will be your BMR needed to just lay, breathe and have your heart pump your blood.

How may calories do you burn in a day?

It's important to know your metabolic rate so you can balance enger in (the food you eat) with the energy out (how active you are). Because of different activity levels, each person's metabolic rate is different. Follow these steps to calculate the the amount of caloires you burn in a day. Remmeber, if you eat more than the calculated amount of calories, those extra calories eventually get stored as fat.

1. Convert your weight from pounds to kilograms by dividing by 2.2 (2.2 pounds = 1 kilogram). So, a 130-pound woman would weight 59 kilograms.

2. Women: Multiply the results of Step 1 by .9 (59 x .9 = 53). Men: Skip this stpe and go directly to Step 3.

3. Multiply the results of STep 2 (or Step 1 if you are a man) by 24. This gives you the minimal number of calories you need to survive, or your RMR (resting metabolic rate) (53 x 24 - 1272 calories).

4. To calculate the extra calories you need in order to perform your normal activites, you must calcualte a certain percentage of the RMR. Then add it to the RMR for that day's calorie needs. For example, a relatively sedentary day--say, a lazy Sunday spent watching TV or laying around--would require only a 20 percent increase in caloire expenditure (1272 x .20 = 254 extra calories). So, 254 added to 1272 equales 1526 calories.

Activity levels vary depending on how vigorous an activity it is and how long you're active. Here is a general rule of thumb based on nutritionists recommendations for energy.

Sedentary (sitting, standing, watching TV) = 20-30 percent
Light activity (housecleaning, golfing, garage work) = 50-60 percent
Moderate activity (skiing, bicycling, dancing) = 60-70 percent
Heavy activity (football,s occer, basketball, jogging) = 90-100 percent.

Additionally, low calorie diets (under 1200 for women and 1400 for men) are not the way to go because you don't get enough folic acid, magnesium and zinc along with putting your body in a perpetual state of starvation.

Sorry I have studied this in numerous classes and will tell you that most Primary Care Physicians (PCP) have not clue as to nutritional needs. They are not required to take many courses if any (I work in a hospital and the residents said they had 2 nutritional classes that were required early in med school). Don't rely on a PCP for nutritional guidelines...get a referal to a nutritionist and/or Registered Dietician (RD).

[Kelly_S]

Originally Posted by sugarholic

I'm not sure where you read that nobody is supposed to go under 20 points, but according to WW I am because I am only 4ft 11.

From Page 16 of the Weight Watchers Getting Started Week 1 Booklet (verbatim):

"Keep in mind...Stick to your daily POINTS Target to keep your metabolism going, to carry out bsic bodily functions, and to lose weight at a safe and healthy rate. Eating below your daily POINTS Target on occasion is OK, but you should not go below a daily POINTS Target of 20."

Originally Posted by sugarholic

We are all different, I find if I stay around 23 points I don't tend to lose at all. Therefore, I do need to sometimes go under my 20 points and yes the first couple days I was hungry, but I am not starving and I do eat 3 full balanced meals a day with room for a snack or two.

And if you follow a Points Pie (I'll post in a minute) you find that if you are truly eating balanced there is not reason you should ever fall below 20. W/W revamped their program when a study about BMR revealed that 18/19 points a day was way too low to keep a person's metabolism from slowing down. You say you can get under 23 point a day (I'll post a story called Tale of 2 W/W Friends in a minute also) is because you have slowed your metabolism down by 'starving' (for lack of a better term) by eating such low points in an effort to lose.

Points Pies

Balanced (under 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 8-9 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 6-7 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 0-3 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 2-3 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

20-28 points a day

Higher Protein (under 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 5-6 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 9-11 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 0-1 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 2-4 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

20-28 points a day

Higher Carb (under 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 9-10 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 5-7 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 1-3 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 1-2 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

20-28 points a day

-----

Balanced (over 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 11 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 10 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 3-4 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 2-3 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

30-34 points a day

Higher Protein (over 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 8 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 12 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 2-3 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 4-5 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

30-34 points a day

Higher Carb (over 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 13 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 8 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 2-4 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 3 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

30-34 points a day

[Kelly_S]

A Tale of 2 W/W Friends (to show why eating less isn't always the best):

I have 2 close friends who started W/W back many years ago and followed 2 different views to the program.

My first friend ate only 18 point a day (keep in mind they started back with ranges with 1-2-3 Success) and only 18 points a day. She one thought it would be easier for her to follow a smaller number (even though she should have started in the 26-33 point range) and thought she couldn't eat anything above her MINIMUM a day in points. She made goal and when she tried to start adding points she could only eat a maximum of 20 points a day to maintain. Anything above that (including APs) seemed to make her gain. She eventually had to use a doctor, nutritionist, registered dietican and much help from her leader to deal with the gains while she started to add points back in. It has been over a year and she is now up to about (as of today 2/13/05) 28 points a day after many months of only 26 points a day.

My second friend ate 1 range higher than she was told to (for example when she was supposed to be 26-33 points she ate 28-35 points), she always ate all her points and any APs she earned. When she hit maintenance her MINIMUM points a day became between 35-40 plus all the 35 FPs/WPAs we have. She also at first thought she couldn't eat above her minimum for the day because she had a minor gain, maintain and then a small loss but after that she started losing.

The second friend had to adjust her metabolism and did it while she was losing and the first friend has to do the adjusting now and it is harder for both her body and her psyche.

Don't be afraid to adjust your body with your losses using your WPAs/FPs and APs by giving it a minimum of 2-3 weeks....a month is better.

[sugarholic]

Thanks for taking the time to post all the material. I hope you are not taking me the wrong way, 20 points is my target points for eating, however I do eat a ton of 0 point veggies during the day to keep my metabolism up (I've been stuck taking the nutrition classes for my prereq's too). It's not like I'm trying to eat under 20 points, but if I cheat and go over 23 points one day, yes the next day I will try to stay on the lower end of my scale at the 18 range. I've found in the past that 20 points has worked for me so that is where I've decided to start out again.

[Kelly_S]

Going to 23 is NOT CHEATING with W/W at all. Based on BMR and activity levels it is probably more to what you need.

I am just showing that 20 TPs a day isn't that much in the way of caloric intake.

[sugarholic]

I said going over 23 points is cheating for me, not going to 23 points. I get your point. Maybe you can give tatoomama some of your advice, she's the one asking for it.