common nutrition themes
 

Hi all,

Anybody else notice a common thread to some of these diet and exercise books?

BFL says to avoid processed wheat.
So does Eat Right for your Type. (if you are a type O.)
Deepak Chopra says to stay away from processed foods.

Bill Williams (BFL) says to exercise first thing in the morning.
Deepak Chopra says that the first sluggish/slow period of the day starts at 6 am. If you can get up before then, you will have more energy through the day and will be able to move your body better on rising. He also says to do sun salutations first thing in the morning.

I think these guys are sitting around eating Cheez-Its and drinking beer talking about all the fat chicks who are going to be getting up at 5 am to sweat like mad and eat rabbit food for the rest of the day!!!

Just kidding, guys, you rock, I think you are onto the truth, and thanks for sharing it with us!

I think that is Bill Phillips not Williams that you are referring to.

:lol: for the rest of the post. Yes they are onto to something! Have you ever seen a picture of Bill Phillips? You wouldn't say that about him if you had! He has an INCREDIBLE body.

JC

Well...pretty much...most nutrition programs will tell ya that the less processed the food you eat, the better for weight/fat loss, since it takes your system longer to digest and 'process' stuff like, say, oats vs. bread, that sort of thing.

And of course fiber is great for your innards :lol: and also keeps you filled up - there is FAR more fiber in fresh fruits and veggies and whole grains than in, say, a V-8 juice or white rice. (I had to mention V-8 since a lot of the folks at work who are doing WW and LOATHE veggies drink a lot of that stuff - I actually like it too but it is WAY high in sodium...haven't had it in eons).

Gotta say this about the "sluggish" part of the day - Chopra's might be at 6 am- mine is exactly 13 hours later - at 7 PM. :lol: I've been hitting the gym early since 1995 (after I discovered that lo and behold, there is no waiting for machines before 5:30 am at my gym!!) and I also get the most work done in the morning...or perhaps Seinfeld reruns have a calming effect on me!

My sluggish part of the day is around 2 or 3 or 4 o'clock .... Lately I just need a snooze... Sometimes, when I'm working I even come home at lunch and have a "cat" nap...:lol:

Speaking of WW I threw out my "lifetime" WW membership the other day... I found it in my purse and thought : "Well, I ain't NEVER EVER going back there!!" Felt goooooood :D

Ok Bill if I win this challenge you get to kick my butt for getting your LAST NAME WRONG!!!! How embarrassing!!!! Sorry! But Williams and Phillips are linguistically similar....

And yes, he does have an amazing bod.

(but then so will we soon!)

Mrs. Jim, Chopra's book might be really interesting for you. There are three distinct patterns of people, time, etc. and there's two sluggish periods per day - 6 am - 10 am and 6pm - 10pm. (this also is why you shouldn't eat later dinners because your bod doesn't have the optimal digestive support at that time. It's also why if you stay up past ten you'll get another burst of energy and another appetite burst as well.) There's another change at 2 pm - changes from Pitta (high energy) to Vata (calmer) which also explains that "snacktime" that so many people explain as "low sugar" time. Anyway, Deepak has a book worth reading. My favorite tip from him? Eat when you are hungry, stop when you are full. In short, listen to what your body is telling you.

Kapha 6-10am
Pitta 10-2pm
Vata 2-6pm
Kapha 6-10pm
Pitta 10-2am
Vata 2-6 am

Or you can do a search on the word "dinacharya" for more info on a daily routine.

And sorry again to Bill.

I recommend all three books, they are all quite healthy. ER4YT has helped me get rid of an evil 16 pound per month water retention cycle and is good for overall energy levels.

And Lanaii - I am with you 100% - weight watchers is for sissies!!!!! I want my money back!

Hope you all have a groovy weekend!

I think that's rather close-minded.

Free day is built into the program and as such, one can be quite successful taking a free day every week if one is doing BFL by the book . True, other plans may not include a free day but the point is, they aren't structured the same way BFL is.

99% of people can not go from a non-exercising, eating whatever lifestyle to 7 days a week of perfect eating and daily exercise. But they *can* go to 6 days plus a free day to relax and let loose.

Palm/fist can be pretty lowcal; free day also helps bump your metabolism with a higher cal day. Staying at the same level of calories all the time is not condusive to fat loss; your body acclimates fast.

My point is....the free day is not "wrong" as long as you are following the rest of the program.

Laura

I disagree
 

I went from eating clean 7 days a week and probably very low calorie, to BFL with a free day. The longer I did BFL, the wilder the free days became. I gained weight on bfl and also regained all my cravings for junk food. I think it really depends where you are coming from. Getting rid of the free day mentality has been what's gotten me back to where I want to be.

I think some of us are really addicted to some foods- and allowing them once a week is like telling an alcoholic that it's ok to go on a bender every Friday night and it'll be fine on Saturday.

Just MY experience.

mel

Jenn:

But that's what makes this forum so interesting, the discussions we have, so don't be shy to stir things up a bit once in a while...

As for "free day" it may not be for everyone, I like to have a couple of treats on that day, but I usually keep the rest of the day clean, because now for some reason I don't like all that other crap stuff anyways. Just for an example, today I had one slice of my fave flaxseed bread, I usually love it, but because I haven't had it in a few days, I found it too sweet! Imagine that finding bread sweet? Your taste buds just change so much over time that you don't feel a need to have a free full day every week...

Mel -- I can totally relate that some foods send you off the deep end, my mom still can't understand why I can't just have ONE cookie... "Just tell yourself you're gonna have ONE ...." :blah: she says....NO I CANNOT DO THAT MOM!! NOT with a COOKIE.....

I have a day of rest each week, where I don't worry specifically about exercise or food. I find that I still do something active most of the time. My body's getting used to it, and sitting at the computer all day isn't as fun as it used to be.

As for food, I still try to use my new Superpowers of PortionEstimation and listen to my body about when it's full. And if I want Cheezits or popcorn (or cookies) I'll put them in a bowl rather than eat out of the package. But I don't really measure, and I don't necessarily pick good food choices. If I want Cheezits and cheese for lunch, I'll eat it.

On a normal day, I aim for 2000-2500 calories (less than that will starve my huge body right now). What I've found when I estimate the calories from that day is that I'm usually only 500 calories or so over my aim.

As long as I listen to my body and stop when I'm not hungry, I'm okay. It's when I'm not thinking about what I'm eating and the package is open in front of me that I can down a whole LOT of food without realizing or really tasting it.

Ok since I stirred the beans on this on the other thread, I will throw my 2 cents in.

I was on WW during the whole optional calories phase, and they drove me nuts!! The whole points sytem got rid of all of that.

As for the free day, I do understand the logic, but I also think each person reacts differently - we just saw a few examples of that here. I knew a lady on WW who took weekends off, but was very strict during the week, and still lost her weight. I know that never worked for me. I think what it says in BFL does make sense as to the reasoning for it, but it seems like when people stall, it may stem back to the free day.

I know I have tossed around doing free day vs. a treat here and there and I can see how that can get out of hand, and it would for me, being that I am a big "taste of this, taste of that" person. Yesterday, I realized how much I was about to taste, but I stopped myself - orange pecans, kettle cooked chips, Ben and Jerry's. Normally, I would have done it,with the mentality "oh it is just a little it wont hurt". Well, it does add up and I am sure that is one of the things that has kept me from losing weight.

I doubt I will go ballistic on my free day - I probably just wont eat 6 meals, and indulge in a few favs or something. I am thinking I will track it though on Fitday just to see how many calories I put in. Maybe the shock will keep me at bay :lol:

Robin :cb:

Just goes to show you that there is not ONE plan that works for EVERYONE - KWIM?

For me personally, the Free Day was a very appealing aspect of BFL when I first read about it - like Laura said, for the Average Joe or Jill (which is whom Bill Phillips aimed the book at - the average person - see the video "Body of Work") most folks would find it just about impossible to eat such a strict diet 7 days a week. Having that 1 day 'breather' in the program makes it workable for the general public IMO.

Of course, that doesn't work for EVERYONE - Mel is a perfect example...and if Bill P. ever decides to rewrite BFL, he could start with what he wrote about Free Day - I dunno if it's a good idea to give the average reader carte blanche to eat several Big Macs at one sitting, or a whole pizza, box of donuts, etc. *I do admit that I have had Free Days like that in the past...my first Challenge, every Sunday was a food-fest - HUGE breakfasts at Stacks and later, Mexican food (the big combo platter) and Baskin-Robbins for dinner...and I've read on various forums about folks spending their entire Free Day in pursuit of food - literally driving from drive-thru to drive-thru - just eating 'because they can'.

What I do now...generally I know what I want to eat on Sunday. Jim and I treat Sunday as our "date day" usually. Or sometimes we just want burritos at the local taqueria - cheap stuff. ;)Sometimes I want takeaway sushi from Draeger's. Generally frozen yogurt is on the list if it's a hot day...but I also plan other stuff BESIDES eating on Sunday - such as going to the stables and giving the lesson horses a nice bath and grooming...taking a road trip with hubby...that sort of thing.

Ilene - I like my bread SOUR! :lol: There ain't nothin' like REAL San Francisco sourdough bread IMO!

Karen - Ahh good ol' SF sourdough bread!! I lived in the Bay Area for 4 years back in the late 80s when my DH was stationed at TI/Alameda.

Bill Phillips is coming out with 2 new books, though I am not sure when...... Eating for Life, and Eating for Life Cookbook. His website actually has sample recipes you can download and print, which I did. They look good.....I just need time to cook them :( Maybe he will address the free day issue as well as other ones. We shall see :)

Robin :cb:

:doh: Ohhhhhh....... Cheez-Its....... my all time favorite freakout food....

:doh: Ohhhhhh........ Sourdough.......

Neither of which fits in with me at all ever, since I have digestive problems with wheat............

gave up on popcorn hmm... it's been 15 years now!!!

Hey all,

Now I have my ancient tracker and it says that a week's worth of optional calories is 700. So the BFL free day is indeed freer than the WW optional calories. If I were to use the WW guide to optional calories on my BFL free day, my total caloric intake for that day would be 2200 calories.

I'm not silly enough to make a recommendation - this is just the math.

Have an OP day! :) ÷

Hey Jenn,

With all due respect you just can't count calories like that and then make a judgement about a program. The are hundreds of other factors that tie into the program that are different to WW.

ANY program needs to be look at from a holistic approach in my book. AND it needs to be taken in your current context as well.

I am afraid that it's just not that simple to break it down and compare like that.

My $2

JC

I was surfin' the Net :comp: saw the following at a fitness site, and immediately thought of our discussion of the free day - good or bad? Check this out...most of you probably know the guy who wrote this - Jeremy Likness. The original question was actually regarding how much cardio is too much, but then it went into the free day/nutrition thingamagig. Read on...


Comments from the Peanut Gallery??
:gossip:

'The rest are accosted by a myriad of complications ranging from the availability of food, the levels of processed food in our typical diets, to the psychological issues that we associate food with happiness and think every social event should be marked by a "reward" of unhealthy food.'

like I said.... a holistic approach.

JC

Great post Karen!!

I think I am going to copy that to a word doc so I can look at it from time to time when I need to hear words like that. Does he have a book out, or does he write for a magazine?

Robin :cb:

Jennifa-

I agree with you on the bread, and also feel that yogurt is not an optimal food on BFL; it is counted as a carb but contains just as much protein and many people find that it doesn't have alot of staying power. Also...people tend to find yogurt flavors they like and use that brand, no matter how much sugar/corn syrup they contain.

MrsJim has an excellent article (from t.mag or abc.bodybuilding maybe?) on the truly BEST foods for bodybuilding, and bread , even whole wheat, is NOT on that list, and neither is pasta of any kind. Many feel that Bill Phillips "dumbed down" the nutrition in the BFL book to some degree to attract a bigger audience; the average Joe Smith probably would have been intimidated by a really strict food list. And to take it further...Bill Phillips no longer runs EAS and EAS has taken the "authorized foods" list on the BFL website to ridiculous places with rice cakes and popcorn.

I didn't mean to imply that Free Day is for everyone, just that the program *can* work successfullly for many who do incorporate it. Many people taper down to a free meal or two within a few weeks as they find a whole day makes them physically uncomfortable.

Laura

Jennifa - I agree with you about the foods. As for the foods, where do you get this "sprouted" bread? And what about bread I make myself....I know this was discussed on the other board, about putting it in fitday. That is one food I do eat more than I care to, and at least if I either make it myself, I know what goes into it.

Let me also ask this about bread....what about the kinds that you buy that are all natural, no preservatives or other junk? Is that still considered processed?

As for pasta, luckily I am not a big pasta fan :)

Laura - I had heard that Bill is no longer associated with EAS, and that about the only thing they do in conjunction with each other is the competitions/challenges. I am debating about doing one of the "official" challenges because I am not a big myoplex fan.

Hopefully he will clear some of this up with his upcoming books!

Robin :cb:

Any kind of bread is considered "processed" if it involves the wheat being ground into flour and then baked; this completely changes the GI, blood sugar impact, and amount of fiber.

I have heard of some "sprouted breads" that do not contain flour and these would be different; I've never tried them myself.

Laura

Hmm interesting!! So, even if I buy wheat flour that has not been "enriched", that is processed?

What do you think about tortillas, pitas, flatbread, etc.....

Guess I learn something new all the time :)

Robin :cb:

Bread is bread. Any flour is processed.

I agree with the bread thing!!

Processed is processed...

Sad, because I adore bread. However, I recall Dr. Connelly stating in BodyRx that if you decide to eat tortillas, to eat corn tortillas because the fiber count is much higher. I've never checked that out though.

I've never tried Ezekiel bread for I think its way too expensive.

Jennifa, what plan are you doing? Is this the eat for your blood type one?

I know a guy who swears by that plan too. I've never read it myself but I'm very glad its working for you! :)

Thanks Mindi, you are sweet!

How is everybody doing today?

Mindi, yes corn tortillas are better than flour - they are generally fat free and have more fiber. I personally don't care for them as much as flour though.

Robin :cb:

Not trying to start a debate here...but ALL bread is processed, including Ezekiel bread - even if you grind the grains yourself, still it's processed - and speaking for myself personally, ALL types of bread are definitely out of my clean eating menu...

Here's an Ezekiel bread recipe I found by Googling:

Just about the least processed bread recipe that I can think of was in the Laura Ingalls Wilder book "The Long Winter" - when all the family (and most of the town!) had to eat was seed wheat, which they ground to flour in a coffee mill as follows:

After the wheat was ground, they added sourdough starter and water and made their loaf for the day...(they must have burned MAJOR calories in the grinding of the wheat using a coffeemill - not to mention it was FREEZING anyway!)

Speaking for myself personally - I can easily eat 2-3-4 slices of any type of bread (except rye which I don't care for) and want more...for me, eating whole grains such as oatmeal, barley, and brown rice or sweet taters and yams is a better choice than ANY type of bread - since my tummy has to work longer and harder to process them. Grinding grains into flour (even if you do it yourself) enables the resulting product to be digested much more quickly and more efficiently - meaning that you absorb more calories.

And regarding bread and BFL: Bill Phillips only reluctantly authorizes bread:
I've actually started following what In & Out Burger does as far as making 'sandwiches' by using lettuce leaves (usually Romaine or red-leaf over iceberg which is just tasteless to me!) wrapped around chicken with some mustard and tomatoes added...along with a fresh tree-ripened peach... a perfect meal!


Just my 2 cents ;)

Karen, I'm just like you when it comes to bread of any type, I can eat ALOT, and not feel satisfied at all... Bananas do the same for me too, I can eat 3-4 in 15 minutes.... If there's one thing I haven't learned in all the years of this lifestyle is to SLOOOOW down to eat!! I just haven't been able to do that yet... Oh well back to the drawing board...

Ilene - that makes TWO of us, chickie ;)

Sometimes I wish I could have a bit put in my mouth (that's been done with horses that 'bolt' their food to slow them down - otherwise they can colic).

Sparky (Chalupa Boy - our kitty) has it down though - if he eats too much, he hurls :lol: about once a week at least!

So then we could have a race to see how fast we can eat SALAD!!! :lol: KEWL!!!

Quick question for the Ozfolk here...

I was just at Draeger's and they had someone passing out toffees...

Okay...gotta know...

IS SHAYMEE'S AUSSIE TOFFEE actually from Australia???

and

IS it Australia's Best Kept Secret???

Gotta know... :lol:

P.S. No, I didn't take a piece, free though it be! ;)

Hi Karen

I have to say that I have never heard of Shaymee's Aussie Toffee. So yes, I think it is Australia's best kept secret, so well kept, even Aussie's don't know about it. :lol:

Jayne :D

Never heard of it!

JC

AHA! I knew it was a crock! :)

After I posted that, I did a websearch and they do have a website...the company is located here in the Bay Area.

It did look like quite yummy toffee though...expensive, but very yummy (Draeger's wouldn't carry it as a specialty item if it didn't meet their standards, I would imagine - even though their candy department also carries weird stuff like (gag me) lollipops with WORMS or BUGS in them!!! Ewww!).

Mrs. Jim, your Laura Ingalls Wilder reference reminded me of another pioneer-life-type book I read a while ago where they made bread out of ground up wood because they had no grain.

Ick...although I have to admit, I *am* curious as to what the fiber content of wood bread may have been. LOL

Well...there are about a kajillion recipes for Ezekiel bread on the Net - I just picked one of the top ones.

As far as yeast or baking powder is concerned - bread requires some kind of leavening agent to rise - unless you have a sourdough starter - which is essentially growing your own yeast. I'm not a chef by any means, but baking powder is used in quick breads such as banana bread, biscuits, that sort of thing. If you don't have a leavening agent, you end up with something akin to a cracker or matzo (which is 'unleavened bread').

You don't need oil to make bread either - the sourdough bread that is our trademark here in the Bay Area doesn't have any.

The thing is...there isn't really an 'official' recipe for the bread. The Bible, as I recall it, didn't really go into much detail about how to make it, other than to use wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt. (one of my aunts in the South also makes a "scripture cake" along the same lines, with ingredients from different Bible verses.)

Incidentally, I went to the Food for Life website and their Ezekiel bread DOES contain yeast...

Now as far as the word "processed" goes...let's start with the dictionary...

Main Entry: 2process
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1532
2 a : to subject to a special process or treatment (as in the course of manufacture) b (1) : to subject to or handle through an established usually routine set of procedures

By its very nature, bread IS a processed food - probably one of the first processed foods ever. No getting around it. Once you take the whole grain and grind it - it's been processed. Just like orange juice is basically an orange that's been processed...

Back in the 90's, I was on the McDougall Maximum Weight Loss Program for about, oh, 2 years...one of the big no-no's on the plan was flour products of any kind. His reasoning for this (I don't have the book in front of me so I'm paraphrasing here) is that basically, when you eat something that has been ground or processed, you can eat much more of it...and your body absorbs the calories much more easily and quickly stores them as fat. KWIM?

And again, for me, just about ANY kind of bread is a bad choice - I cannot just have 'one' slice or 'one' serving. Definitely a redlight food for me, as WW used to call it, so I don't keep it around the house...but this is all about personal choices. ;)

KWIM??? My brain must be on vacation this week. I can't figure that one out. :)