Hi all.

I am in a stripping pahse of a contest preparation and the goal is to get down to about 3-4% b/f zone. I get close each year and this year i am using a very high protein/extremely low carb and a moderate fat diet

To date, the weight loss has been good but the emphasis needs to be to lose b/f and to keep the catabolism of the lean mass to a dead set minimum

I dont ever see the ketostix show any real colour even though I wish it to be so....

My diet is as follows:

meal 1 - 3 full eggs and 250 ml of egg white + maybe 10 g of cheese
meal 2 - 1 tbsp (maybe 1.5) of natural peanut butter + 40 g protein powder
meal 3 - 16 g cahsews + 180g cooked chicken
meal 4 - same as meal 2
meal 5 - 180 -200 g red meat or salmo, 150 g lettuce with a ranch dressing
meal 6 - 50 -65 peanut butter or cheese spread

Add to this 3 weight sessions and 3 ab workout sessions per week and at least 1 hour cardio per day with at least 1x1.5 hour session

And followed religiously.

Any ideas if this can precipitate ketosis???

TIA

You'd better not eat cheese and meat.

Thanx...I must have it all wrong.. Where are the carbs in the meat and cheese?

I mean the bb world has long used the BodyOpus diet which is a pretty hard core keto diet and it was extensively used and reported on by as guy named Lyle McDonald.

In the FAQ's he says:

"c. You don't eat any freaking carbs. Or at least less than 30 grams per
day. This is really the most important of the three criteria
as even this few carbs (and they hide everywhere) is enough to
keep most people out of ketosis. Some may need to go as low as
10-20 grams and some seem to handle as many as 40 but don't
push your luck on this. Personally, I strive for as close to zero
grams of carbs as I can during the low carb phase.
(Which brings up another question I got: Is eating too few carbs
during the week a bad idea? Not that I can see. Ketosis is ketosis
whether you eat zero grams carbs or 10 grams carbs. However,
some carbs (I like cucumber with salt on it) may help psychologically.
A lower carb intake might lead to deeper levels of ketosis but
there's no way to know if this is indicative of greater fat loss or not.
Atkins thinks it is but Dan says maybe.)

This is one of the more common questions I get and I do not know
what the problem is. Anything is fair game as long as there aren't
carbs in it. That means: any meat, most cheeses, heavy cream,
any vegetable oil, etc, etc. No, not a particularly varied diet
but quit *****ing. Dieting isn't really supposed to be fun and you
can eat for variety on the weekends. Note that many foods (hot
dogs for example) do not have nutrition labels. And, companies put
carbs in everything these days. If a food doesn't have a label, I
recommend you DO NOT eat it just to be safe. Look, go get a copy
of Corrinne Netzer's "Complete Book of Food Counts" and carry it
around with you. Memorize it if you have to. It has listings for just
about every food you might come across. Just don't eat carbs."

Why do you say avoid them?

I'm not sure that this board will have expertise to answer your question (although I could be wrong, there's a lot of smart people here!).

In general, people here either are or have been overweight, and are looking to achieve or maintain a healthy weight through long term lifestyle changes. Body-building is a specialty area and requires a very different approach to diet, hydration and weight lifting. You may have more success at a forum that specializes in this area.

Frankly, I look at your goal of 3-4% body fat and think OMG, is that even compatible with life!!! Seems a bit extreme to me -- but then, my goals are different!

I'd like you to stick around until our accomplished weight lifters have a chance to comment.

The progress from mere thinness to body building is fascinating. Too many people who seek to be smaller/lighter/thinner think that muscle building is a "whole 'nother deal"

Your journey could help us understand both ends of the fitness spectrum. I, for one, am glad you've dropped in.

You are male, right? Elite female bodybuilders will reach 10% BF for competition but their periods stop long before that. For males, 3-4% is very extreme and also in the "elite" category for competition only. You need to consult a professional for your goals, especially if you are competing and trying to reach ketosis.

I'm going to agree with Sacha. I am guessing you are male? I have never in my life heard of a female bodybuilder going to 3% body fat so I am just going to have to assume you are a man. If you are this elite I would think you could find many many resources and coaches help you figure this out. I haven't the first clue what men need to do to themselves to compete at that level.

Your assumptions of my gender are correct...I wasnt aware ths was a ladies only site although maybe the name is a give away. Ran across it in a google search relating to keto so just logged on.

Anyway, thanx for the assistance but if anyone on site has any info..please share and I would be grateful.

All technical stuff aside...why did the gal tell me to avoid cheese and meat?

we're not really ladies only. men are perfectly welcome. but uh, you name is lost on me, I don't get it? i

I think the recommendation against dairy is that it'll bloat you. I'd suggest looking for a body building book on cutting or even looking at a website on cutting. You will need to eat clean with lots of veggies.

You might check the Atkins/low carb area of the board, for your ketosis question. That would be more their area of expertise. I don't know that we have any BBers on this board, unless they are lurking.

What little I've seen of cutting diets is super low fat, like lean meats with visible fat trimmed, no added dietary fats (the pb, cashews, ranch dressing), egg whites (no whole eggs) and no other dairy (no cheese, milk, yogurt, creams, etc), low GI veggies (brocc, asparagus, spinach...lettuce is pretty much worthless nutritionally, just FYI), some use frozen veggies like frozen green beans or mixed veggies, so you can if you like that sort of thing or find it easier to work into your meal prep, your whey protein and other supplements, little or no fruit.

There are probably better resources online for you than this board, to get the info you want in a timely manner. Like I said, you can probably get some good help on the low carb/ketosis thing on the Carb Counters board here at 3FC, so I'd check there for that, but for BB stuff and info on cutting diets, check the bodybuilding(dot)com forums and articles, t-nation, and I'm not sure what else is out there, but perhaps someone here can suggest some other leads for you. Good luck with your contest!

Thanx jams

The traditional cut diet is pretty much as youve said and one I've used for a few years. I get the resutls but there is NO DOUBT that the"engine" of the losss is calorie restiction.

And my understanding and indeed personal experience is when you have x amt of b/f to lose and you go on a calorie restricted diet, the body inevitably metabolises the fat but also - and at a really unacceptably high level - also catabolises the lean mass youve worked so hard to acquire

In trying this keto diet, the aim is to accomplish the fat loss but in a manner that is far more sparing of the lean muscle.

To the lady wondering about my name...came from a nic I had as a kid when my skullcap (jew) was nicknamed yakabebe by the neighborhood kids...sort of stuck.