Michelle Obamas initiative is a good one IMO. I've worked in schools in Harlem for 13 yrs and I can tell you genetics don't stand a chance under some of the conditions these kids endure. We're talking nearly no exposure to physical activity except once a week, school lunches that are unappetizing and an overwhelming prevalence of junk food. If genetics plays a part in a child's obesity then that's even more reason for the initiative. Nobody is going in there trying to make a kid feel bad. But somebody has to say "hey, 8 cans of blue juice per day is not good for you!"
The National Institutes of health went to 96 schools in 4 states and implemented regular exercise, healthy lunches and breakfasts, sent home packaged snacks, instructed the children and their parents in nutrition. At the end of three years the 5,106 childrens' weights were no different than that of the children in the control schools that were just like the ones you described.
By all means, schools should offer exercise and healthy meals to children but Michelle Obama's initiative is not called, "Better Health through Better Nutrition" program, she pointedly addresses Childhood Obesity, telling the entire school that it is unhealthy to be fat, while promoting a cure that has been proven not to work.
I'm sure she does not set out to make fat children feel bad, but I can imagine how it must feel to be the fat child sitting in that assembly hearing everyone told that you are wrong and how you need to be fixed because you aren't okay the way you are.
Medical advice to lose weight is basically based on two things...an observed correlation between obesity and reduced longevity, diabetes, heart disease, etc, and a fundamental precept that if obese people lose weight, they will become similar to the never-obese in their risk for those things. The first part is undeniable - science shows us again and again the negative health outcomes that obesity is associated with. But that second precept is EXTREMELY dicey, evidence-wise. And there's a lot of research coming out to indicate that the post-obese (people who were once obese, and have lost weight) are VERY different metabolically and health-wise from the never-obese. You can take the risk factor of high weight away, but it doesn't seem to take away the actual risk.
We get into this sort of issue all the time when interpreting correlations to make medical recommendations. For another example, take use of cholesterol lowering medications/statins. We know that high cholesterol is a risk factor for heart attack and stroke. So we put people on medication to lower their cholesterol, even if they do not have existing heart disease and have not had any cardiac events...and their cholesterol DOES go down. But their risk of heart attack and stroke are barely changed at all, and their risk of dying stays the same (http://www.thennt.com/nnt/statins-fo...heart-disease/) So does it make sense to recommend they reduce the risk factor (cholesterol) if it doesn't change the actual risk, particularly given that statins actually increase some other health risks, including the risk to develop diabetes?
As a medical writer I appreciate the soundness of your reasoning. Just because X is a risk factor for Y doesn't mean that eliminating X takes away all the excess risk. X may just be a surrogate marker for another risk factor that hasn't been eliminated.
Thin people are just as likely to... eat under stress, eat at night, binge, and comfort themselves with food as obese people.
This I find hard to believe. We've gotten to a point where we think it's politically incorrect to suggest that obese people actually eat more than thin people. So what if they eat more? As has been pointed out before, eating -- even stuffing yourself -- is not a moral failing.
I have observed the eating habits of many "naturally thin" people, overweight people, obese people, and people (like me) who've done a lot of yo-yoing, and have noticed patterns consistent enough to lead me to conclude that weight is indeed a function of caloric intake. It sounds almost silly to have to state this, but apparently it's become a no-no, even in the research community.
I have had numerous 5,000-calorie binges in my life. None of my effortlessly thin friends have ever done this. I have a huge appetite and rarely get full. Many overweight people are like me, and most naturally thin people I know get easily full. Many of them simply don't love food as much as people with weight issues.
F.
Last edited by freelancemomma; 04-03-2015 at 06:16 PM.
Where did I say kids should make their own decisions? Did you even read my post? Where I said by all means give kids healthy food and exercise?
What we shouldn't do is what you suggest, tell them "Not to be fat." Because they cannot control whether they are fat or not. They can eat all the fruit and vegetables in the world and play sports from dawn till dark, like some kids I have known and still be fat if they are genetically programed to be that way.
Telling them not to be fat is about as helpful and understanding as telling them not to be short or not to be ugly. It's not a decision you can make for the child, because the NIH and 5000 kids have proved that your methods don't make fat kids thin.
Thin people are just as likely to... eat under stress, eat at night, binge, and comfort themselves with food as obese people.
Quote:
This I find hard to believe. We've gotten to a point where we think it's politically incorrect to suggest that obese people actually eat more than thin people. So what if they eat more? As has been pointed out before, eating -- even stuffing yourself -- is not a moral failing.
I'm quoting from formal, controlled scientific studies conducted over decades by university researchers. I'm not quoting politically correct conventional wisdom.
But if you'll read my quote, you'll see the study did not say that thin people eat as much as obese people, just that they are as likely to eat emotionally from stress, for comfort etc. The point of the study was to see if obese people have some sort of mental illness or neurosis that causes them to eat too much and the answer was -- no.
Fat Acceptance, to me, is accepting and loving yourself for who you are. It doesn't mean you won't lose weight, can't lose weight, or that you're encouraged to be obese/unhealthy. It simply means that you don't have to wait to be happy until you're thin, and that you still deserve love and respect. Fat Acceptance and Health At Every Size are two different things in my mind as well, yet I constantly see people against Fat Acceptance conflate the two and automatically assume that Fat Acceptance equals saying fat is healthy and encouraging people to be fat, when really it's not.
Very well said! Many think it is a lazy person's way out....I love myself regardless. and in many minds it sounds like a "way out" "cover-up". "one is too lazy to put in the work".... Yes, being overweight is unhealthy, we all know it! But to be able to say "I accept who I am" is huge.
I've noticed that since dieting became an industry in this country (and I'm reaching way back to when I was in high school and even before), more and more it is viewed as a moral failing to be fat. Being fit and eating "healthy" is somehow considered as almost a moral "good." I find this disturbing.
Being fit and eating "healthy" is somehow considered as almost as a moral "good." I find this disturbing.
I agree, I find that very disturbing, too. I think the type of person who, in the 1950's, would have been gossiping about who didn't go to church or who was seen necking in her boyfriend's car, is now turning all that judgmental finger pointing on people who eat cheeseburgers or Heaven forbid, smoke! I once brought in a dozen donuts for a special occasion at my small office for myself and co-workers, some woman who worked down the hall was talking about us all day. You would have thought we we're cooking meth.
i really do not like fat acceptance. I am all for loving yourself no matter what. But I don't think that is what fat acceptance really is.
The majority of people I see in the fat acceptance movement, practice thin shaming, argue & spread lies that being obese is healthy, people who swear that it is impossible to lose weight, or blame others for them being fat, they swear they don't eat or exercise or tried xyz diet plan, so just spreading misinformation and really discouraging others to lose weight and be healthy.
I think people can do whatever they want to their own bodies but I also see it being put off on their children which is heartbreaking. But if someone wants to be fat and loves it good for them, I don't care. But I don't think they should make up lies or be in denial about it. That isn't acceptance to me.
Personally, for me acceptance of my weight in the beginning (292) would have meant just giving up. I hurt, I was tired, I was just letting go of life and all of the joy I used to know. People can be so cruel and Fat Acceptance for me is just NOT AN OPTION.
I choose to not accept an unhealthy body that was never meant to carry this much weight. Even if society did keep all of its little snickers and mean remarks to itself. I choose to walk more and faster without a struggle, to have other things on my mind than food! I choose to be healthier!
I have chosen to feel more like the woman I want to be in my private moments in bed also with my partner.
32 pounds has convinced me to keep on going......... I love myself that much.
Kate
Last edited by WildflowerGirl; 04-03-2015 at 10:42 PM.
I think the type of person who, in the 1950's, would have been gossiping about who didn't go to church or who was seen necking in her boyfriend's car, is now turning all that judgmental finger pointing on people who eat cheeseburgers or Heaven forbid, smoke! I once brought in a dozen donuts for a special occasion at my small office for myself and co-workers, some woman who worked down the hall was talking about us all day. You would have thought we we're cooking meth.
I'm convinced that many people feel powerless, so when the opportunity arises for them to exert some perceived modicum of power over others by judging personal behaviors that our current society deems unacceptable, they grab onto it, assured that they have the moral high ground because the majority is on their side (and we all know that the majority is always right ). It makes them feel superior, better about themselves, if they wag a finger at others. Of course, they couch it in all the "not-good-for-you/not-good-for-others" language, but I'm convinced it's all about feeling superior and trying to lord it over someone else.
If we're going to go down this route of logic then we cannot limit it just to food. Do you drink alcohol? Because I do not. And therefore if you drink alcohol it affects my insurance. Same goes for smoking, dangerous occupations/activities such as skydiving, if you live in Arizona you have a higher risk of getting skin cancer than I do and that affects my insurance as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayZeeJay
Approximately 30% of ALL health-care costs are accrued in the last year of a person's life. This has nothing to do with obesity or other co-morbid factors; the statistics are the same. Everyone dies. And most people do it "badly", if we are going to define that as creating excess medical costs that must be covered by our population as a whole. Rather than having a single massive stroke or heart attack, people drag out their deaths and make an expensive mess of it. Should we punish them for that? Euthanize everyone once their medical expenses hit a certain cap? Perhaps we should reward those whose lifestyles make a sudden death more probable.
Love these two points! I get so sick and tired of self-righteousness about others' personal habits being couched as an insurance/money concern (not saying that this is true for everyone who makes that point, but I'm convinced it's at the root of many of these arguments). The cost of living in a free society is that we will have to pay for the risks others take---and I will gladly do so.
I hope Kaplods chimes in here, as she has one of the most nuanced views of the Fat Acceptance movement due to her personal experience.
I haven't much experience with it myself except thinking for myself, who's dealt with one form of eating disorder or another for decades, it's a mindset that I can't even imagine. But I need to know the opposite of my dissatisfaction exists out there someplace, whether it's fat acceptance or intuitive eating or some other mindset.
I've been purposefully avoiding this thread, but I must have felt my ears burning. I try not to get involved in the Fat Acceptance discussions anymore for two main reasons
1. It always seems to turn nasty, deteriorating into fat bashing.
2. The Fat Accetaptance Movement isn't what it used to be, and maybe never was, because of it's intertwinement with Fat Admiration (sexual attraction specifically and often exclusively to fat partners), including fat fetishes and feeders (who sexualized eating and often intentionally fatten a partner).
All that being said, without the Fat Acceptance movement of the 1990's, I am convinced I would probably wouldn't be alive today, and would have become much fatter than my 394 lb top weight.
Much of the FA rhetoric (at that time) was focused on the idea that traditional dieting was more cause than cure for weight gain.
I stopped dieting, and stopped gaining. Simple as that. Wish I had discovered this at 150 lbs (in 5th grade) rather than at 375 (trying to diet for my wedding in 2002 would add another 20 lbs).
Learning to lose weight without triggering the mental and physical backlash that results in bingeing, has been an uphill battle. I stumble and fall, a lot.
And yet, with all I've learned, I'm still susceptible to all the social pressure to crash diet (which never ends well, for me).
My sister got married last summer, and insisted upon a heavy, satin, strapless, tight-bodiced bridesmaid gown. That stupid dress made me ignore everything I knew about myself and crash dieting.
I'm still trying to lose the weight I gained, trying to lose weight for that dress.
I think the biggest problem with our obsession with weight loss, is that we focus on the result, not the cause. Instead of focusing on improving health habits, we punish those who become obese (but not the equally unhealthy thin, couch potatoes) and expect the punishment and ostracism to inspire weight loss.
It would be like trying to prevent and treat lung cancer by punishing cancer patients for having lung-cancer, without ever dealing with smoking directly.
Our nation's food supply, eating habits, and lifestyle habits are becoming less and less healthful, and as social creatures, it can be difficult to swim upstream. Aside from which, change is difficul for most of us.
Then there's the biochemistry of carbs, especially the salt, sugar, fat combination.
It just seems to me that compassion (which often starts with acceptance) tends to motivate much better than blame, contempt, and irritation.
It also makes more sense to focus on the contributing factors, not the result. We ALL need to eat better and move more, and singling out the obese makes as much sense as singling out those with diabetes or heart disease (which we probably would if we could identify them just by looking).
Obesity makes a convenient target, and we like to think it's a simple matter to prevent and fix (and therefore a moral failing if one cannot).
But we've already learned with substance abuse, and other "over indulgence" problems from gambling addiction to overspending, that condemnation only makes the problem worse, and drives it underground (hidden until the problem only becomes more ingrained and even more difficult to treat).
I have never, ever met anyone in real life involved anything like The Fat Acceptance Movement. I occasionally see a representative on the media, but they're usually in defensive mode. And when I do see something about the movement on a forum, the OP is usually deriding it. Were people teased and bullied in school by gangs of obese people?
All to say that it appears that the movement wield so little power, why do people who don't like it give it any attention?
The people who may remark on my weightloss negatively, I'm pretty sure, do not support the Fat Acceptance Movement. Not sure why people lump those who think "Real Women Have Curves" with the Fat Acceptance Movement.
My point of view
I love myself that much.
). It makes them feel superior, better about themselves, if they wag a finger at others. Of course, they couch it in all the "not-good-for-you/not-good-for-others" language, but I'm convinced it's all about feeling superior and trying to lord it over someone else.
